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Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:29 PM Mar 2016

"But Sanders hasn't been attacked by Republicans yet!"

Yes, he may be polling stronger against all of the Republican candidates for President than Hillary Clinton does, but wait until the Republicans attack him. Yes, Sanders may have the highest favorability ratings of any major candidate for President, but you know, Republicans haven't attacked him yet. Yes, Sanders appeals strongly to Political Independents, who are more numerous than either Democrats or Republicans, but only because so far the latter haven't attacked him. Yes, the Presidential campaign has been going on now for almost a year, and the more the public finds out about Bernie Sanders the more they tend to like him, but just wait for those Republicans attacks. The fact that Bernie's won hundreds of thousands more youth votes than Hillary and Trump combined so far means nothing before Republican attacks. And the fact that Sanders wins sky high approval ratings from the voters in his home state where he repeatedly wins easy reelection, well that's only because Republicans there have never attac... umm, scratch that last one - everyone knows that Vermont doesn't really count.

Sanders hasn't been attacked by the Republicans yet? Oh, really? Bernie Sanders has spent his entire political career to the left of the Democratic Party. It's not exactly a secret. And the mainstream media was positively gleeful about introducing Bernie Sanders to those Americans who didn't already know him as "the Socialist Senator from Vermont." Bernie Sanders is the living breathing representation of the Republican sponsored Red Scare that's run nonstop for the last half century, that cat is already out of the bag, and you know what? Bernie doesn't scare anyone except the Super Rich.

If the Presidential election were held today in the neon red state of Utah, UTAH, Sanders would beat Trump there by double digits, while Clinton would be locked in a statistical tie. Bernie doesn't have sex scandals, he doesn't have money scandals, and he can't be ridiculed as a flip flopper because he's been so damned consistent for so damned long. You can't catch Sanders saying one thing to voters and another to his financial backers, because they are actually one and the same, and Bernie proudly says the same thing to everyone. He spins about as much as a Pre Global Warming glacier. AND Bernie opposed the Iraq War, damned straight he did.

But he'll melt when Republicans attack him. Uh huh.

65 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"But Sanders hasn't been attacked by Republicans yet!" (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 OP
He is also a very nice man. nt DemocracyDirect Mar 2016 #1
Sounds a lot more bulletproof to me than: astrophuss42 Mar 2016 #2
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Orrex Mar 2016 #15
.......Jesus. and the abuse continues desmiller Mar 2016 #31
This is why Skinner opened the jail doors, So we can get more bogus chickenshit alerts like this. arcane1 Mar 2016 #36
exactly what i was thinking. This site will now miror M$NBC and will simply fade away now IMO litlbilly Mar 2016 #51
That's how it sounds to a lot of us. eom Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #25
First, yes Sanders has been attacked by Republicans. And mass media. And almost every Democrat merrily Mar 2016 #3
"Indeed, he's been attacked all his life, sometimes physically." Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 #5
As we all should know by now, something is horribly, horribly wrong with merrily Mar 2016 #13
The Meme is that Bernie is unelectable... Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 #16
Forget facts. Facts have a liberal bias. merrily Mar 2016 #17
I think he's doing fine the way he is and HRC supporters need to back off before blm Mar 2016 #4
GOP are using Sanders campaign to after Hillary: I have never trust Sanders lewebley3 Mar 2016 #6
That's crap and you know it. Fawke Em Mar 2016 #11
NO, its not: Hartman was getting things from the "Bernie Bros" lewebley3 Mar 2016 #12
I guess you feel all of us for passion for Bernie are infiltrators too! Check this video. highprincipleswork Mar 2016 #28
No: I just don't trust the Sanders people not to be use by the GOP lewebley3 Mar 2016 #46
Just step away, unless you are prepared to go 20 rounds for no merrily Mar 2016 #20
really? you dont trust Bernie? but, you trust Hillary? OMG so sad... litlbilly Mar 2016 #53
Yes: I Trust Hillary with the Presidency and the American people lives lewebley3 Mar 2016 #63
absolute, total , fucking bullshit litlbilly Mar 2016 #64
Go Hillary lewebley3 Mar 2016 #65
That ship already sailed Doctor_J Mar 2016 #57
I don't put any personal stock in what internet supporters say. blm Mar 2016 #58
The GOP wants to face Bernie, they think he is very beatable. apnu Mar 2016 #7
So has virtually everyone for his whole political career Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 #9
Props for Bernie to that. apnu Mar 2016 #10
He may have been disliked by the right "his whole political career", but the vast majority anotherproletariat Mar 2016 #55
I was referring to Bernie's political opponents in elections Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 #56
Exactly. That's why the GOPpers support him so hard. scscholar Mar 2016 #44
Fact is he has not faced the full force of the GOP attack machine in a national campaign. DCBob Mar 2016 #8
"Fact is he has not faced the full force of the GOP attack machine in a national campaign." Loudestlib Mar 2016 #14
In case you haven't noticed, Hillary Clinton is facing it now. DCBob Mar 2016 #21
In case you had forgotten, the primaries are still happening. Loudestlib Mar 2016 #26
The GOP has been relentlessly attacking Hillary since she officially announced. DCBob Mar 2016 #27
That's general demagoguery. Loudestlib Mar 2016 #39
The Right has been attacking anyone whose name rhymes with Clinton for a quarter-century. Orsino Mar 2016 #45
they've been attacking her since the 90s dlwickham Mar 2016 #54
Democrats would be insane to nominate Sanders Gothmog Mar 2016 #18
This is much closer to reality than the OP. Plus there's Bernie's time at the Persondem Mar 2016 #24
Bernie would be doing a lot of explaining BeyondGeography Mar 2016 #32
So.... Kalidurga Mar 2016 #34
After reading that, it reminds me of all the ridiculous attacks Dem2 Mar 2016 #43
Are the Sanders supporters prepared for what the GOP will do to Sanders if he is the nominee? Gothmog Mar 2016 #47
It's a really good question. Dem2 Mar 2016 #59
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Mar 2016 #19
The Clinton campaign has been treating Sanders with kid gloves Gothmog Mar 2016 #22
He has been treated disrespectfully by DNC and media. oldandhappy Mar 2016 #23
But the attack ads on Sanders write themselves Gothmog Mar 2016 #49
The GOP has not vetted Sanders, bullet proof he is not, as ve have seen there are lots of talking Thinkingabout Mar 2016 #29
It would be worse against Sanders for two reasons stevenleser Mar 2016 #38
Trump has dropped a few hints, have to agree with you, all new material. Thinkingabout Mar 2016 #60
Yeah, they'll not be kind with him. They'll go personal too. KitSileya Mar 2016 #61
Heard this yesterday. Lifelong Protester Mar 2016 #30
Lies are lies. They are far more powerful when told by one's allies. Ed Suspicious Mar 2016 #33
The VA scandal would be used to defeat him ecstatic Mar 2016 #35
It won't be hard for Republicans to attack Bernie, they can get their talking points from here... Kalidurga Mar 2016 #37
And that goes both ways, wouldn't you agree? nt ecstatic Mar 2016 #40
You should think about what that implies. Kalidurga Mar 2016 #42
All Clinton's frontal attacks against Bernie have failed. It appears Clinton resorted to sabotaging Kip Humphrey Mar 2016 #41
The Clintons have not been attacking Sanders Gothmog Mar 2016 #48
Nailed it tom right on the head. What else can they say about him? Not much litlbilly Mar 2016 #50
That's only because his baggage car is dwarfed by Hillary's. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #52
I've read all the replies Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 #62

astrophuss42

(290 posts)
2. Sounds a lot more bulletproof to me than:
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:32 PM
Mar 2016

That's what they offered.
I took W's bribe.
Monica is a right wing conspiracy.
I provide arms for wars.... In order to grow my charity!

Orrex

(63,172 posts)
15. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:24 PM
Mar 2016

Mail Message
On Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:12 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Sounds a lot more bulletproof to me than:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1551069

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Using Monica to smear Hillary? C'mon. Sexist bullshit. Hide it.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:20 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster is silly and predictable, but the post doesn't seem hide-worthy. Just another flailing and failing attempt at cleverness. Leave it, the better to mock it.

I'm sure that this has nothing to do with the brevity of the user's DU tenure, of course...

Leave it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Bullshit alert. "The person who sent the alert wrote: Using Monica to smear Hillary? C'mon. Sexist bullshit. Hide it."
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Poster is parroting what were once considered RW talking points.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
36. This is why Skinner opened the jail doors, So we can get more bogus chickenshit alerts like this.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:51 PM
Mar 2016

At least the jury was relatively honest.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
3. First, yes Sanders has been attacked by Republicans. And mass media. And almost every Democrat
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:33 PM
Mar 2016

at the federal level. Many on the state and local level as well, amid a lot of pressure from the party to support Hillary, according to Democrats who have withstood that pressure to endorse Bernie. And by the DNC. And by Hillary, the Hillary campaign and its surrogates.

Indeed, he's been attacked all his life, sometimes physically.

He'll do just fine when he can take off the gloves and really go at an asshat like Trump, Cruz or Kasich.

NEXT!


Thanks for another great OP, Tom.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
5. "Indeed, he's been attacked all his life, sometimes physically."
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:42 PM
Mar 2016

They don't come tougher than Bernie. He will stand up to anyone for what he believes in. Good thing that thing is "us".

merrily

(45,251 posts)
13. As we all should know by now, something is horribly, horribly wrong with
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:20 PM
Mar 2016

any poll that does not favor Hillary. That, of course, goes without saying, but I wanted to mention it anyway, just in case any forgot all the posts by Hillary's supporters that said just that.

However, the only information we have, or can have, about how a potential Democratic nominee might do in the general, one of the most important political issues of 2016, are head to head match up polls. They may be reliable, they may not. However, on the most important political issue of 2016, head to head match up polls are the only information we have or can possibly have before a nominee is chosen and it's too late to re-consider. And Sanders does significantly better than Hillary on those.

For example, Hillary supporters who have been pooh poohing head to head match up polls hastened to headline that Hillary did all of 2 points better than Trump in Utah, while burying or omitting entirely that Bernie did significantly better than Hillary against Trump in Utah--8 points, was it?

While Clinton was only slightly ahead of Trump — 38 percent to 36 percent — Sanders, a self-declared Democratic socialist, holds a substantial lead — 48 percent to 37 percent over the billionaire businessman and reality TV star among likely Utah voters. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865650513/Poll-Utah-would-vote-for-a-Democrat-for-president-over-Trump.html?pg=all

I'm guessing Hillary's 2 points is closer to that poll's margin of error than is Sanders' 11 points. However, the bad news for Democrats is that the same story says Kasich beats both Hillary and Bernie. Question: Who has a better chance of turning that sad fact around, Hillary or Bernie?

My money's on Bernie, both literally and figuratively.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
16. The Meme is that Bernie is unelectable...
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:25 PM
Mar 2016

...and damn all the evidence that shows the exact opposite.

blm

(113,010 posts)
4. I think he's doing fine the way he is and HRC supporters need to back off before
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:33 PM
Mar 2016

they damage any chance at unity. Seems to me they have forgotten 2008 and how angered they were at any hint that it was time for Clinton to end her participation in the primary race.

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
12. NO, its not: Hartman was getting things from the "Bernie Bros"
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:19 PM
Mar 2016

He said they all came with new email address: and suddenly
very active about attacking Hillary.

I think it has been going on all along.
 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
28. I guess you feel all of us for passion for Bernie are infiltrators too! Check this video.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:40 PM
Mar 2016

Here are the real infiltrators. Some kind of social service-cutting, warfare raging Republican-like types have infiltrated the Democratic Party for far too long!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
20. Just step away, unless you are prepared to go 20 rounds for no
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:29 PM
Mar 2016

particular reason.

Wave, nod and smile and save your time and considerable skills. JMO

 

lewebley3

(3,412 posts)
63. Yes: I Trust Hillary with the Presidency and the American people lives
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:58 PM
Mar 2016


Sanders just is not Presidential: I would never trust him in
the White House.
 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
57. That ship already sailed
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 03:45 PM
Mar 2016

Mrs. Clinton nd her supporters have decided to insult Sanders, his supporters, and all liberals and progressives using words taken straight from freeperville. A liberal boycott of voting for DINOs is in order. Otherwise we will continue to get republican policies forever.

blm

(113,010 posts)
58. I don't put any personal stock in what internet supporters say.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 03:56 PM
Mar 2016

Remember, Doc - I've been here for a few primaries at this point. ; )

PS: Good to see ya.

apnu

(8,749 posts)
7. The GOP wants to face Bernie, they think he is very beatable.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 12:53 PM
Mar 2016

That remains to be seen in practice, Bernie is no joke and he's been round the block a few times.

However, the GOP wants Bernie in the GE so they can run on an anti-socialism/anti-communist platform. That will play really well with their base and with the older crowd. Its familiar territory for them, its a narrative that writes itself and the media will be both unwitting and gleeful helping the GOP tell that narrative.

If that's the case, then the 2016 GE of Sanders vs Trump or Cruz, will really be about old people vs young and minorities and who can drum out more to the polls.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
9. So has virtually everyone for his whole political career
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:06 PM
Mar 2016

Where the GOP narrative goes horribly off the tracks for them is the part where their Democratic opponent normally shifts into a defensive posture - where Bernie doesn't. That is new and unfamiliar terrain for them, but it is the grounds that Sanders is most comfortable fighting on.

apnu

(8,749 posts)
10. Props for Bernie to that.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:13 PM
Mar 2016

For too long liberals have been door mats to conservatives. Bernie embraces who he is and what he's about and isn't the least bit ashamed about it.

We could do with a few more proud lefties/liberals/progressives in government.

 

anotherproletariat

(1,446 posts)
55. He may have been disliked by the right "his whole political career", but the vast majority
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 03:20 PM
Mar 2016

of Americans had never heard of him before last year. Remember that DU is not a good representative sample.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
56. I was referring to Bernie's political opponents in elections
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 03:26 PM
Mar 2016

Once upon a time they tended to think it would be easy to defeat him. They tended to think wrong. They thought so this year also, he may yet lose, but he has taken them by surprise once again, even with the odds so stacked against him.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
8. Fact is he has not faced the full force of the GOP attack machine in a national campaign.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:01 PM
Mar 2016

Repeatedly running for office in lovely little Vermont does not prepare one for a hard core national Presidential campaign.

Loudestlib

(980 posts)
14. "Fact is he has not faced the full force of the GOP attack machine in a national campaign."
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:22 PM
Mar 2016

Who has?

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
21. In case you haven't noticed, Hillary Clinton is facing it now.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:30 PM
Mar 2016

They fear her and would love to have the Socialist from Vermont as their opponent.

Loudestlib

(980 posts)
26. In case you had forgotten, the primaries are still happening.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:36 PM
Mar 2016

The GOP candidates are attacking each other more than anyone else. She's never won a primary and she's never faced a GOP backed national campaign against her. People already have a negative opinion of her and she has a ton of baggage.

DCBob

(24,689 posts)
27. The GOP has been relentlessly attacking Hillary since she officially announced.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:40 PM
Mar 2016

Do you ever listen to RW radio? Its almost non-stop bash Hillary when they arent bashing Obama.

Loudestlib

(980 posts)
39. That's general demagoguery.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:53 PM
Mar 2016

It's not a focused national campaign against her. They go after socialism, liberals, Al, Gore, climate change, etc... all the time. Their base is full of a-holes, they are appealing to their base.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
45. The Right has been attacking anyone whose name rhymes with Clinton for a quarter-century.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:21 PM
Mar 2016

That's not, however, anything particularly worth bragging about. They haven't been attacking her with substance.

Gothmog

(144,919 posts)
18. Democrats would be insane to nominate Sanders
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:27 PM
Mar 2016

Dana Milbank has some good comments on general election match up polls https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-would-be-insane-to-nominate-bernie-sanders/2016/01/26/0590e624-c472-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html?hpid=hp_opinions-for-wide-side_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Sanders and his supporters boast of polls showing him, on average, matching up slightly better against Trump than Clinton does. But those matchups are misleading: Opponents have been attacking and defining Clinton for a quarter- century, but nobody has really gone to work yet on demonizing Sanders.

Watching Sanders at Monday night’s Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump — or another Republican nominee — would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.


The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the “socialist” label and requested that Sanders define it “so that it doesn’t concern the rest of us citizens.”

Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who don’t want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: “Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top — that’s my definition of democratic socialism.”

But that’s not how Republicans will define socialism — and they’ll have the dictionary on their side. They’ll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. They’ll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldn’t be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists don’t win national elections in the United States .

Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases — “one of the biggest tax hikes in history,” as moderator Chris Cuomo put it — to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that “hypothetically, you’re going to pay $5,000 more in taxes,” and declared, “W e will raise taxes, yes we will.” He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that “it’s demagogic to say, oh, you’re paying more in taxes.

Well, yes — and Trump is a demagogue.

Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government “bigger than ever,” Sanders didn’t quarrel, saying, “P eople want to criticize me, okay,” and “F ine, if that’s the criticism, I accept it.”

Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.

Match up polls are worthless because these polls do not measure what would happen to Sanders in a general election where Sanders is very vulnerable to negative ads.

Persondem

(1,936 posts)
24. This is much closer to reality than the OP. Plus there's Bernie's time at the
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:34 PM
Mar 2016

kibbutz, the honeymoon in USSR, his being a CO during Vietnam, his being on record multiple times as a tax raising socialist ... it goes on and on. The attack ads write themselves.

Running for office in little ole VT is NOTHING like running for Prez.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
34. So....
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:49 PM
Mar 2016
Match up polls are worthless because these polls do not measure what would happen to Sanders in a general election


Let's say you are right. How do you think Hillary goes from performing worse in match up polls to performing better in a real life situation?

Dem2

(8,166 posts)
43. After reading that, it reminds me of all the ridiculous attacks
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:07 PM
Mar 2016

Democrats have faced over the years. It is a concern, no doubt.

Gothmog

(144,919 posts)
47. Are the Sanders supporters prepared for what the GOP will do to Sanders if he is the nominee?
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:37 PM
Mar 2016

According to this article, Sanders has been treated with kid gloves by the Clinton campaign to date. However the GOP will not be as kind to Sanders. This article from VOX has some good predictions as to how nasty the GOP and the Kochs will be http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10903404/gop-campaign-against-sanders

I'm not sure I have the requisite killer instinct to fully imagine how the GOP will play a Sanders campaign. But consider just this low-hanging fruit:

Sanders would be the oldest president ever to take office — older than John McCain, who faced serious questions about this in 2008.

Sanders is a socialist. "No, no," you explain, "it's democratic socialist, like in Denmark." I'm sure GOP attack ads will take that distinction into careful consideration.

Sanders explicitly wants to raise taxes, and not only on the rich.

That's just the obvious stuff. And he has barely been hit on any of it so far.

I have no real way of knowing whether Sanders and his advisers appreciate what's coming if he wins the nomination, or whether they have a serious plan to deal with it, something beyond hoping a political revolution will drown it out.

But at least based on my experience, the Bernie legions are not prepared. They seem convinced that the white working class would rally to the flag of democratic socialism. And they are in a state of perpetual umbrage that Sanders isn't receiving the respect he's due, that he's facing even mild attacks from Clinton's camp.

If they are aware that it's been patty-cakes so far, that much, much worse and more vicious attacks are inevitable, and that no one knows how Sanders might perform with a giant political machine working to define him as an unhinged leftist, they hide it well.

In the name of diverting some small percentage of the social media bile surely headed my way, let's be clear about a few things: This is not an argument against supporting Sanders. There's nothing dumber than making political decisions based on how the other side might react. (For one thing, that would have foreclosed supporting Obama, a black urbanite with a funny name, in 2008.)

But it is an argument that Sanders has gaping vulnerabilities that have not yet been exploited at all, so his followers should not yet feel sanguine about his ability to endure conservative attacks. Also they should get a thicker skin, quick.

The GOP will have a great deal of material to work with and the Kochs will be spending $887 million, and the RNC candidate may spend another billion dollars. These groups will have a great deal to work with

Dem2

(8,166 posts)
59. It's a really good question.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 04:09 PM
Mar 2016

Bernie has the rhetorical and intellectual chops to be President, but this isn't your grandma's election - the GOP seems loaded for bear this cycle and if one doesn't consider these issues you've raised, that feeling of a 2 X 4 to the face could be quite real this fall.

Gothmog

(144,919 posts)
22. The Clinton campaign has been treating Sanders with kid gloves
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:30 PM
Mar 2016

The concept that the Clinton campaign has been very negative on Sanders is simply false when you look at what Sanders would be subject to if he was the Democratic nominee. VOX had a good article on the potential lines of attack that Sanders would be exposed to if Sanders was the nominee. http://www.vox.com/2016/2/3/10903404/gop-campaign-against-sanders One of the more interesting observations in the VOX analysis is the fact that Sanders have been treated with kids gloves compared to what Sanders would face if he was the Democratic nominee. I strongly agree with the VOX's position that the so-called negative attacks against Sander have been mild. Form the article:

I have no interest in litigating any of these attacks here. Like any Democrat elected president in 2016, Sanders wouldn't be able to get much done, but he would block attempts to roll back Obama's accomplishments and have a chance to fill a few Supreme Court vacancies.

When Sanders supporters discuss these attacks, though, they do so in tones of barely contained outrage, as though it is simply disgusting what they have to put up with. Questioning the practical achievability of single-payer health care. Impugning the broad electoral appeal of socialism. Is nothing sacred?

But c'mon. This stuff is patty-cakes compared with the brutalization he would face at the hands of the right in a general election.

His supporters would need to recalibrate their umbrage-o-meters in a serious way.

The attacks that would be levied against Sanders by the Kochs, the RNC candidate and others in a general election contest would make the so-called attacks against Sanders look like patty-cakes. The GOP and Kochs are not known for being nice or honest and as the article notes there are a ton of good topics available for attack. Raising taxes is never a good campaign platform (Just ask President Mondale). The GOP would also raise the socialism and age issues if Sanders was the nominee.

Again, I agree with the VOX position that so far, Sanders has not been subject to negative attacks close to what the GOP would use against Sanders and the attacks against Sanders if he was the nominee would be brutal. I urge Sanders supporters to read the VOX article to start to get a feel for what real negative attacks would look like.

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
23. He has been treated disrespectfully by DNC and media.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:34 PM
Mar 2016

I suspect he has a good idea of all that is coming. He has witnessed a lot of campaigns and he has lived with the clintons and repub colleagues for many years.

Gothmog

(144,919 posts)
49. But the attack ads on Sanders write themselves
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 03:07 PM
Mar 2016

The attack ads from this appearance on Meet the Press write themselves https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/10/12/why-bernie-sanders-isnt-going-to-be-president-in-5-words/

Meet the Press ✔ @meetthepress
CHUCK TODD: Are you a capitalist?@BernieSanders: No. I'm a Democratic Socialist.
8:33 AM - 11 Oct 2015

And, in those five words, Sanders showed why — no matter how much energy there is for him on the liberal left — he isn't getting elected president.

Why? Because Democrat or Republican (or independent), capitalism remains a pretty popular concept — especially when compared to socialism. A 2011 Pew Research Center survey showed that 50 percent of people had a favorable view of capitalism, while 40 percent had an unfavorable one. Of socialism, just three in 10 had a positive opinion, while 61 percent saw it in a negative light.

Wrote Pew in a memo analyzing the results:

Of these terms, socialism is the more politically polarizing — the reaction is almost universally negative among conservatives, while generally positive among liberals. While there are substantial differences in how liberals and conservatives think of capitalism, the gaps are far narrower.

...The simple political fact is that if Sanders did ever manage to win the Democratic presidential nomination — a long shot but far from a no shot at this point — Republicans would simply clip Sanders's answer to Todd above and put it in a 30-second TV ad. That would, almost certainly, be the end of Sanders's viability in a general election.

Americans might be increasingly aware of the economic inequality in the country and increasingly suspicious of so-called vulture capitalism — all of which has helped fuel Sanders's rise. But we are not electing someone who is an avowed socialist to the nation's top political job. Just ain't happening.

You can try to argue that the two terms are not the same but that will not stop the Kochs from running $200 milion to $300 million using that term in negative ads that would be very effective.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
29. The GOP has not vetted Sanders, bullet proof he is not, as ve have seen there are lots of talking
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:41 PM
Mar 2016

points the GOP has attempted to make scandals, doesn't mean they have to be true.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
38. It would be worse against Sanders for two reasons
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:52 PM
Mar 2016

1. There is so much there that is true that it would be very effective

2. Sanders isn't the policy wonk that a Hillary, Obama, Kerry or Gore is and doesnt have the backup they have by going into the details. His proposals are all very superficial and ideological.

KitSileya

(4,035 posts)
61. Yeah, they'll not be kind with him. They'll go personal too.
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 05:29 PM
Mar 2016

They'll look into his family history, and his kids. Trump may have been married three times, but I believe his three kids are working well with him. I don't know much about Sanders, but I believe he has a son that he's not very close to? I may be mistaken there - I haven't felt it right to dig into his personal life, but the GOP certainly will. They'll blow up the articles he wrote in his 30s too. They'll paint him as a rapist and a pedophile by insinuation. There's a lot of ugly spin they can put on it, and the GOP is the masters of the ugly spin.

While Sanders has been to the left of most of his peers in Congress, I think that his independent status has protected him, as has the fact that he comes from Vermont. He has attacked the Dems, and the GOP will have seen that as beneficial. The enemy of my enemy is my friend, after all. Besides, Vermont is such a tiny liberal state, it's not like the GOP national party has bothered to go on the offensive there - why waste the resources?

ecstatic

(32,652 posts)
35. The VA scandal would be used to defeat him
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:50 PM
Mar 2016

They've avoided mentioning the VA scandal for the most part, but that's what they're going to use. They'll tie his blind faith in the VA to his single payer plan and convince Americans that his single payer plan would have people dying while waiting for care.

Despite mounting evidence of trouble at the Department of Veterans Affairs, Senator Bernie Sanders, then the chairman of the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee, initially regarded the complaints as overblown, and as a play by conservatives to weaken one of the country’s largest social welfare institutions.

“There is, right now, as we speak, a concerted effort to undermine the V.A.,” Mr. Sanders said in May 2014, two weeks after the story was picked up by national news organizations. “You have folks out there now — Koch brothers and others — who want to radically change the nature of society, and either make major cuts in all of these institutions, or maybe do away with them entirely.”

But the scandal deepened: The secretary of veterans affairs resigned. Reports showed major problems at dozens of V.A. hospitals. And an Obama administration review revealed “significant and chronic systemic leadership failures” in the hospital system.

Mr. Sanders eventually changed course, becoming critical of the agency and ultimately joining with Senator John McCain, the Arizona Republican, and other colleagues to draft a bipartisan bill to try to fix the veterans health care waiting list.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/07/us/politics/faith-in-agency-clouded-bernie-sanderss-va-response.html?referer=


So there you go. You asked, so don't shoot the messenger. Sanders was so blinded by ideology that he failed to act in a timely manner to a serious problem. Does that sound similar to another current scandal (which I won't name)? Not good at all. Just think about the swiftboat like commercials of family members of vets.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
37. It won't be hard for Republicans to attack Bernie, they can get their talking points from here...
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 01:51 PM
Mar 2016

I doubt they can come up with anything worse than Camp Weather-vane has offered up.

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
41. All Clinton's frontal attacks against Bernie have failed. It appears Clinton resorted to sabotaging
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:01 PM
Mar 2016

Bernie's campaign in order to blunt Bernie's rising popularity - not an indicator that Bernie is a candidate vulnerable to verbal attacks.

Gothmog

(144,919 posts)
48. The Clintons have not been attacking Sanders
Tue Mar 22, 2016, 02:39 PM
Mar 2016

You got to be kidding. The Clinton campaign has been treating Sanders with kids gloves. The GOP will not be that nice. The so-called attacks on Sanders by the Clintons are nothing compared to what Sanders would face in the general election against the Kochs, Rove, Trump and the RNC

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
62. I've read all the replies
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:42 PM
Mar 2016

You know what many of them remind me of? How the establishment Republicans stayed in a terminal state of denial over Trumps's strong appeal to voters during an anti-establishment election year. You can change just a few phrases and it is identical: "Wait until the voters finally see the hit ads that reveal that Donald Trump really isn't a Conservative, boy will they reject him then!". Or "Voters will never embrace a candidate who dissed a war hero, wait till voters learn about that!" That is classic fallacy of outdated conventional wisdom. The real truth was staring them in the face all along but they just couldn't see it - because it went against their well memorized script.

In 1992 a young guy from the small state of Arkansas, who had traveled to the Soviet Union, who many voters felt had dodged the draft, who both admitted use of drugs AND got pegged as dishonest for how he did it ("but I didn't inhale&quot defeated a sitting U.S. President who was a bona fide war hero. THAT WAS 24 YEARS AGO PEOPLE. Yes there will be voters turned off by Sanders being a "scary socialist", but how many of them are a lost cause for any Democratic candidate to begin with? Every election cycle more and more of those types literally "die off".

Meanwhile how many voters will ultimately embrace the candidate who they believe "cares about people like me me"? Wake u and smell the coffee. Sanders is a fighter and people like that in a leader, especially someone who they authentically believe plans to fight for them. Here is the dirty little secret of American politics. Establishment politicians on both sides don't want to debate about class inequities because it doesn't play out in their favor to do so. Fortunately for them they almost always get to run against each other so they don't have to. They scare away true economic populists by denying them funding and air time. And they have trained most everyone to act like "liberal" is a dirty word that makes candidates uncomfortable to be associated with.

None of that crap works with Bernie Sanders. When they attack Bernie on economics he fights back and forces them to defend the status quo if they can. And they can't. Sanders doesn't need establishment money, and as our candidate for President they can't keep him from being heard. It's not the backing of traditional progressive voters who time and time again allow Bernie Sanders to outperform Hillary Clinton in match ups against Republicans. It is ordinary Americans who are fed up with being taken for granted and screwed.

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