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Caucuses are so much harder to steal. (Original Post) Matariki Mar 2016 OP
EXACTLY!!! bkkyosemite Mar 2016 #1
Harder to vote states favor Bernie. RealAmericanDem Mar 2016 #38
What? kenfrequed Mar 2016 #51
Weren't Bernie supporters saying Hillary stole the Iowa caucuses? Cali_Democrat Mar 2016 #2
If they win, it's clean. If they lose, it's dirty. alcibiades_mystery Mar 2016 #3
Yup. Nevada too. shadowandblossom Mar 2016 #34
HILLARY SHOT ABE LINCOLN DAMMIT!!!!! / sarcasm <--- cause this is need round here these days uponit7771 Mar 2016 #40
They are inherently less democratic though. MadBadger Mar 2016 #4
Caucases are undemocratic. They favor the young, the healthy, the wealthy, the able-bodied lunamagica Mar 2016 #5
Iowa? Nevada? ReallyIAmAnOptimist Mar 2016 #6
Yup Art_from_Ark Mar 2016 #39
Only takes a coin flip to steal a caucus. What are you talking about? joshcryer Mar 2016 #7
None of this passive aggressive stuff. Do you think that primaries have been stolen? Zynx Mar 2016 #8
I think Arizona's voter suppression cost Bernie the win. w4rma Mar 2016 #10
That's because Clinton won CorkySt.Clair Mar 2016 #12
Bullshit. If Bernie had won I'd be complaining that he didn't win bigger. w4rma Mar 2016 #17
Right CorkySt.Clair Mar 2016 #55
Another delusional Clinton supporter whom I can't tell the difference from a Republican. (nt) w4rma Mar 2016 #57
I feel the same way about Berners CorkySt.Clair Mar 2016 #58
I don't know if it cost him the win...but it definitely would have made the race there tighter. bobbobbins01 Mar 2016 #13
AZ Democrats are petitioning. joshcryer Mar 2016 #15
Why would republicans steal anything for Bernie? brush Mar 2016 #29
Arizona is a primary state, not a caucus state. (nt) w4rma Mar 2016 #30
Thanks, just realized they were talking about AZ brush Mar 2016 #32
There is no evidence whatsoever that Bernie was going to win Arizona. Zynx Mar 2016 #56
I think there was some real ratfuckery in Arizona today. Matariki Mar 2016 #19
Bernie didn't win, obviously it was stolen! nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #43
Caucuses represent fewer people and Bernie won in overwhelmingly white book_worm Mar 2016 #9
majority of latinos in Nevada voted Bernie. A large majority of latinos in Colorado voted Bernie.nt w4rma Mar 2016 #11
The Nevada meme has been debunked. HRC has Overwhelmengly won the Latino vote lunamagica Mar 2016 #22
Bernie Sanders won the Latino vote in Nevada, according to the William C. Velasquez Institute. w4rma Mar 2016 #24
Lol, that's your unbiased source. giftedgirl77 Mar 2016 #52
Sanders Dominates Latino Counties in Colorado w4rma Mar 2016 #26
Conspiracyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!1! cosmicone Mar 2016 #14
Well I guess Hillary should concede to the BS revolution then Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2016 #16
"BS" revolution? Solid Snake1 Mar 2016 #25
Funny how the caucus proportions are so much more dramatic Matariki Mar 2016 #18
that is astounding! Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #31
Where was that? N lostnfound Mar 2016 #50
WTF? workinclasszero Mar 2016 #20
That's only when they favor Hillary. Anyway, it turns out Bernie BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #23
I'm sure Bill voted for Hillary. DemocracyDirect Mar 2016 #28
Silence! shadowandblossom Mar 2016 #36
Nailed it workinclasszero Mar 2016 #53
Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2016 #21
No one stole anything. Caucuses are un-democratic and fools gold. Trust Buster Mar 2016 #27
They're also in smaller, less diverse states. brush Mar 2016 #33
+1, how in the hell is a progressive revolution supposed to be mostly white in the DNC?! uponit7771 Mar 2016 #41
Except for Nevada and Iowa and anywhere else that dares to disagree with you? shadowandblossom Mar 2016 #35
Maybe. I'm glad Bernie won but the history of republican caucuses in Iowa is pretty ugly. n/t pampango Mar 2016 #37
. geek tragedy Mar 2016 #42
They disenfranchise thousands of voter, but I guess that's okay? Agschmid Mar 2016 #44
Bernie fans have one principle: geek tragedy Mar 2016 #45
Yup. Agschmid Mar 2016 #47
June 7, the sanity returns nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #48
Exactly right rjsquirrel Mar 2016 #54
But not impossible. Look at Iowa and the dirty tricks in NV. n/t Skwmom Mar 2016 #46
...but somehow Bernie managed to steal two last night. nt BreakfastClub Mar 2016 #49
So right. When we first started talking about getting rid of jwirr Mar 2016 #59
I disagree. noamnety Mar 2016 #60

kenfrequed

(7,865 posts)
51. What?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:01 AM
Mar 2016

Like southern states that have tougher rules to disenfranchise former felons? Or like Arizona where tons of people were automatically mis-registered in the wrong party thereby preventing them from voting in the primary?

MadBadger

(24,089 posts)
4. They are inherently less democratic though.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:52 AM
Mar 2016

And I say that as a Strong Obama supporter in 2008 who's strategy was based a lot on winning large victories in caucus states.

Also no primaries were stolen.

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
5. Caucases are undemocratic. They favor the young, the healthy, the wealthy, the able-bodied
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:53 AM
Mar 2016

Nothing democratic about them.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
39. Yup
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:23 AM
Mar 2016

Put Ms. HRC 2016 in charge of the caucuses in Iowa, and refuse to release the actual vote tallies. Even claim some precints went for Hillary even though they went for Bernie.

Hold caucuses for Nevada casino workers in casinos, where their bosses can see how they vote.

joshcryer

(62,269 posts)
7. Only takes a coin flip to steal a caucus. What are you talking about?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:02 AM
Mar 2016

I mean, forget that they are done at a certain time, when only certain people can afford to go, and require a lot of effort. Forget all that.

Caucuses are a chaotic mess unless it's a landslide for someone. If it's even remotely close the people in charge can flip the numbers. They can delay the proceedings, they can force a revote (and if people leave before the revote they can't get back in and have their presence counted).

Zynx

(21,328 posts)
8. None of this passive aggressive stuff. Do you think that primaries have been stolen?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:03 AM
Mar 2016

Yes or no? Don't do this innuendo crap.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
10. I think Arizona's voter suppression cost Bernie the win.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:05 AM
Mar 2016

The steal was officially done by the Republicans running the state, but I don't see any Clinton supporters, here, complaining about it.

 

CorkySt.Clair

(1,507 posts)
12. That's because Clinton won
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:09 AM
Mar 2016

Had Bernie won Arizona, you wouldn't be complaining either. Human nature etc.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
17. Bullshit. If Bernie had won I'd be complaining that he didn't win bigger.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:16 AM
Mar 2016

These primaries aren't winner-take-all for Democrats.

And, btw, if I thought that Clinton would gain votes through increased turnout, I'd still be complaining.

She doesn't though. She wins when voter turnout is suppressed, just like every Republican.

 

CorkySt.Clair

(1,507 posts)
55. Right
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:05 AM
Mar 2016

I'm sure you believe all of that. I stand by what I said. You wouldn't give a rip had Bern won.

 

CorkySt.Clair

(1,507 posts)
58. I feel the same way about Berners
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:36 PM
Mar 2016

Who regurgitate RW talking points here on a daily basis for the greater good of the "revolution".

But you have a nice evening

bobbobbins01

(1,681 posts)
13. I don't know if it cost him the win...but it definitely would have made the race there tighter.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:11 AM
Mar 2016

And I have a feeling every delegate is going to count when we get to the convention. I hope Bernie's team is looking into some of the other fishy business that went on in earlier states.

Zynx

(21,328 posts)
56. There is no evidence whatsoever that Bernie was going to win Arizona.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:34 PM
Mar 2016

The polls and the demographics were all against it.

Yes, the voter access issues in Arizona are an abortion, but you have to be delusional to the point of insanity to believe Sanders was going to win in Arizona.

Matariki

(18,775 posts)
19. I think there was some real ratfuckery in Arizona today.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:20 AM
Mar 2016

And I don't like the tone of your post.

book_worm

(15,951 posts)
9. Caucuses represent fewer people and Bernie won in overwhelmingly white
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:04 AM
Mar 2016

states while Hillary is winning a primary by many more votes than Bernie will get put together in Idaho and Utah and doing it by winning diverse voters like Latinos and Native Americans.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
11. majority of latinos in Nevada voted Bernie. A large majority of latinos in Colorado voted Bernie.nt
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:08 AM
Mar 2016

lunamagica

(9,967 posts)
22. The Nevada meme has been debunked. HRC has Overwhelmengly won the Latino vote
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:32 AM
Mar 2016

all over the country

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
24. Bernie Sanders won the Latino vote in Nevada, according to the William C. Velasquez Institute.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:41 AM
Mar 2016

LAS VEGAS – Bernie Sanders won the Latino vote in Nevada, according to an analysis released on Monday by the widely-respected William C. Velasquez Institute.

The institute’s detailed analysis was conducted after Hillary Clinton’s campaign disputed entrance poll numbers by discounting the impact of high turnout by younger Latino voters in Saturday’s Nevada precinct caucuses.

“We note that some analysts have said that Secretary Clinton’s victories in heavily Latino precincts proved that she won the Latino vote. However the methodology of using heavily Latino or ‘barrio’ precincts to represent Latino voting behavior has been considered ineffective and discarded for more than 30 years due to non-barrio residential patterns common among Latino voters since the 1980’s,” said Antonio González, the president of the non-partisan organization whose purpose is to conduct research aimed at improving the level of political and economic participation in Latino and other communities.
https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-wins-nevada-latinos-study-shows/

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
52. Lol, that's your unbiased source.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:13 AM
Mar 2016

GTFO here with that bullshit. BS does well in lily white states (I.e. Utah & Idaho) everywhere else he gets stomped.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
26. Sanders Dominates Latino Counties in Colorado
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:43 AM
Mar 2016

DENVER, Colo. – Continuing a trend started in Nevada where he won the Latino vote by eight points according to entrance polls, Sen. Bernie Sanders convincingly carried 10 of the top 15 Latino counties in Colorado, many by wide margins.
https://berniesanders.com/press-release/sanders-dominates-latino-counties-in-colorado/

BreakfastClub

(765 posts)
23. That's only when they favor Hillary. Anyway, it turns out Bernie
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:38 AM
Mar 2016

has won ALL the states, it's just that Hillary keeps stealing the elections through voter fraud, election fraud, and Bill Clinton's bullhorn. But Hillary is going to be indicted at any moment, you see, so it doesn't matter. Bernie will be the nominee after Hillary is put in jail.

Remember ALL states that Hillary has won or will win were STOLEN by Hillary. In fact, NOBODY has EVER voted for Hillary ever! It's all stolen!!! Hillary is a thief and a liar! And Benghazi, don't forget Benghazi! This really is the silly season, isn't it?

shadowandblossom

(718 posts)
36. Silence!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 05:08 AM
Mar 2016

Don't let them KNOW! the poor Hillary Campaign staff volunteers had to sacrifice thirty eight thousand goats to the DNC Establishment for their support and the silence of their black hooded members! I mean really, my wrists are exhausted... And now you're just giving this information away!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't let them know that not one single person has voted for this experienced, competent, pragmatic, knowledgeable candidate with contacts all over the world.

Response to Matariki (Original post)

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
27. No one stole anything. Caucuses are un-democratic and fools gold.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:47 AM
Mar 2016

Sanders floods caucuses with students promised trillions in new entitlement spending. He floods a small zone. I'm NOT impressed.

brush

(53,743 posts)
33. They're also in smaller, less diverse states.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:33 AM
Mar 2016

Not the best thing when you think about it as those populations don't reflect the rest of the country.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
45. Bernie fans have one principle:
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:32 AM
Mar 2016

The legitimacy of an election is directly proportional to Bernie's vote share.

 

rjsquirrel

(4,762 posts)
54. Exactly right
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:28 AM
Mar 2016

How they can cry "fraud" when Clinton won AZ by 35,000 votes is just too amusing.

Wishful thinking is a powerful force.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
59. So right. When we first started talking about getting rid of
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 08:51 PM
Mar 2016

the caucus system I thought it was a good idea. In fact one of the planks we voted on at our County Convention was rather we should move from the caucus system to the primary system.

The Caucus in our precinct was fantastic. A huge crowd of all ages, all races and open to all people who wanted to support the Democratic candidates. We had our buttons on and everyone knew who we were supporting.

But the best part is that we got to know each other and discuss the issues. We got to vote and it was counted right there with volunteers from the members to verify the count. We got to propose and vote on planks for the platform and vote on them. I was amazed at the number of people who wanted to propose a plank.

We also got to elect our precinct leaders and our Hillary and Bernie delegates. Actually most of the Wards did not have to elect a delegate because we actually were allowed more than we had people in some of the Wards. That is how I got to be a delegate.

And finally after watching what has happened in AZ I realized that a caucus is actually harder to suppress the vote in. Everyone gets to vote. They get the ballot when they register and put it in a box which is guarded and later as I said counted right there as the rest of the discussion continues.

I think this allows us to be involved and not just set back and secretly vote in a booth.

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
60. I disagree.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:14 PM
Mar 2016

1. The voting rate for regular primaries seems to be 20-30%, whereas caucuses are in the single digits. That says a lot about disenfranchisement right there.

2. People have to be able to take an entire day to vote. Obviously that happens in some regular elections too, but it seems to be a given for a lot of caucuses.

3. Volunteers at caucuses were shown letting Hillary voters bypass the registration check, so clearly there are ways to steal it there too.

4. Once people are in, the chairs can call for endless counts and recounts in an effort to drive people to give up and go home.

I don't know what the solution is. I miss the days when I naively thought elections in our country were fair.

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