But a bunch of Sanders supporters complaining--yet again--about how they have been disenfranchised is starting to become a sad meme.

Why is it that ONLY the Sanders voters are singled out for this treatment?

Answer--they changed their registrations TOO LATE, or NOT AT ALL.

A closed election is a CLOSED election. If you weren't a Democrat a month before the vote, you aren't eligible to participate.

Voter suppression shouldn't matter about who you plan on voting for anyway, it should be about allowing everyone to vote. For all you know, every one of those people was a Hillary voter and, that's fine with me - as long as they get to vote. I can't argue against voter suppression in the big picture if I am not willing to argue about it in my own house.

the long lines in Arizona and voters not getting a chance to vote has nothing to do with Hillary vs Bernie - it hurt both sides of voters here. The winnowing down of polling sites to 60 for a whole state was orchestrated by the Repugs to suppress votes. If we allow this to happen again in November for the General Election it can effect the outcome and determine the presidency and put it in the hands of the Repugs.

We know about this now and something needs to be done so this doesn't happen again in November.

I'll bring up Bernie only in this context. If Bernie would have suspended his campaign before this Arizona Primary - we would have never learned about this voter suppression issue. Now that we know that this happened - you need to take off your Hillary hat and put on your Dem hat and make sure that this is remedied before November or your candidate will be denied votes at that time if we don't do something now.

It's the conservative way.

I never respond to any of 'her' posts anymore... waste of time.

Not sure what took me so long.

It's political myopia

Bernie's campaign is helping show this suppression in general.

And Hillary backers SHOULD care about it.

but they aren't being honest about their party affiliation or when they shifted to "D." If they shifted at all. It's any old excuse except that Sanders' staffers did not adequately prepare his supporters to participate in the election. That's HIS fault--not the poll workers.

This constant refrain of "Waaah Voter Fraud" is getting tiresome. You don't see HRC voters doing it when Sanders wins. Stop doing it when Clinton wins decisively because she's done the work.

It just makes you look bad. You might be comforted by the prospect of stewing in your own juices, but you're not convincing anyone to feel that bern.

When I hear hoofbeats, I think horses...not zebras.

If you can't understand that what the Repugs did in Arizona to supress the vote - I guess it will come to you in November when it impacts on your candidate. Instead of doing something now to prevent this from happening in Nov you seem perfectly happy attacking other Dems that are trying to help you.

to denigrate me instead of sticking to the point.

This was a closed Presidential Preference Election. You had to be a registered Democrat over a month before the election took place.

Sanders didn't prepare his people, who are, to a large extent, independents, socialists, libertarians, reform party and other affiliations, in addition to some Democrats. As a consequence they got shut out.

Now he's started to realize that his "peeps" aren't moving over to the Democratic party so he has adjusted his message, taken the mask off completely, turned, and pivoted:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/bernie-sanders-conservatives-vote-220971

Sanders: Conservatives should vote for me

Good luck with that--he should have started that play about six months ago.

You are missing (or ignoring) the basic point stated in the OP.

I'm going to be front and center reminding Hillary Supporter that election fraud just wasn't a concern to them when their candidate was on top.

Its only GOP and other parties (green etc.) voters who cannot voter Dem.

Independent voters can change to Dem without incident. So Sanders is likely to do quite well in Calif.

You'd do well to read what people write before you snark off like that.

smh.

blaming the disenfranchisement on the voters themselves. I'll modify my comment to say, you appear to support voter suppression by denying it exists.

You'll find greener pastures soon enough, no doubt.

Additionally, how many people were discouraged by the long lines created by the Republican culling of polling places? How many people couldn't vote because they weren't able to wait due to work obligations, or childcare issues? There are many issues here and we need to be fighting them now before they repeat in the GE.

Funny how the lifelong Democrats who were Clinton supporters managed to vote.

Disenfranchisement should have happened proportionally, but somehow, only the Sanders supporters got turned away...?

GOP leadership culling polling places is a separate issue (that needs to be addressed within the state); trying to claim that there was widespread "fraud" in the results, though?

Not buying that.






t

But for an OP that was all about voter suppression and how the issues now relate to our future, regardless of candidate, you have done a good job of making it partisan to a candidate.

were disenfranchised. Thousand of them, and the election was called with only 1% of the votes tallied, WHILE PEOPLE WERE STILL IN LINE TO VOTE! Exit polls show Bernie winning over 60% of the votes cast.

https://vid.me/KKWP

https://thehornnews.com/hillary-cheating-scandal-erupts-arizona/

anecdotal little vid. ONE voter may have been disenfranchised--but we need to see the original card to see that. She also might have ticked the wrong box, or a person registering her (not necessarily a Dem) may have made mischief.

More to the point, this voter was offered a PROVISIONAL ballot so she was not disenfranchised.

And she SAYS she "went from independent to Democrat."

Maybe she didn't do it within the time limit.

As I was watching the results on CNN last night, the first results were reported with 41% of the vote in.

As for the other part, it seems from some of the more sensible and less screamy new outlets out there, that there was a database error of some sort. Those who genuinely registered before the deadline (AZ does not do same-day regs) wil eventually have their vote counted, while the unregistered and the registered-too-lates will not.

Seeing how AZ is not a state in Bernie's wheelhouse, i.e. it has a sizable non-white population, is not a caucus, and is not wide open to all, he will not make up any appreciable ground once the provisionals are counted.

One cannot register on the Thursday and swan in to vote the following Tuesday.

The reason a lot of people weren't on the "D" rolls is because they didn't pay attention to the voting requirements.

With all the money Sanders spent in the last month (nearly three million on just PAYROLL) you'd think he would have thought down the road and assigned a few people whose sole task might have been pushing for registration.

Or maybe he did, and those Greens, Reform Partiers, Libertarians, etc., just didn't want to switch...?

But we all have our marching orders anyway.

See secretary Clinton's words here... http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/06/hillary_clinton_speaks_out_on_voting_rights_the_democratic_frontrunner_condemns.html

because of low voter turnout. Much less so with Sanders. Sanders would win by a landslide.

Also Trumps coattails would bring in a lot of GOPs and independents who likely would vote for Sanders if he ran. The protest vote. Sanders would bring in a lot of Dems on his likewise. Not HRC.

Turnout for HRC is much softer than Sanders in the GE. Lots of people just plain dislike her and that means they will stay home.

It all depends on what's on TV that night, I guess. For them.

Or is it okay now because she won the state?

And what does this auger for the vote in November?

And that's what I've been saying for the full year. Caucuses disenfranchise thousands of voters, is that okay?

... actually responsible for it.

We're crazy that way.

But too many people here this morning are willing to write it off because their candidate won, rather than thinking about how she will face the same issue in the GE. Argue it now, fix it now, and avoid the issue in the future. Ignore it at our own peril.

Indifference to a situation of voter suppression is, and that is quite the them on the site this morning. Hillary will face this same issue in the GE unless the polling place issues are fixed as well as any issues with the voter rolls. Now is the time to argue it, not after the GE when it happens again.

... that the GOP has been working to suppress the dem vote all across this nation for many years now.

Apparently some are just becoming aware of it.

What a great plan for the party to make sure they get disenfranchised immediately.

That did not happen ... and you suggesting that it did does nothing to increase your credibility on this topic.

In fact, it has the exact opposite effect.

Where are the calls from Bernie fans for a recount? Flint ran out of ballots and it could have put Hillary over the top.

some either "indifferent" or in favor.

when a Dem candidate is up against a Repug. If the same thing happens then - it's likely that the Dem candidate would be cheated out of votes and it might be just enough votes to change the election and put the presidency in the hands of the Repugs.

It is good that this was discovered last night in Arizona because maybe this can be fixed before the General Election.

If Bernie would have dropped out of this race before this Arizona primary - we would have never learned about this problem. The Hillary supporters need to thank Bernie for getting this purposeful voter suppression ploy exposed in Arizona.

I don't know what could be done to prevent the Dem vote from being suppressed in the General Election in Arizona - but it seems to me whether one is a Bernie supporter or a Hillary supporter - we're Dems first - and we need to take some action so this doesn't happen again in Nov.

The bigger picture here is what is important. The Arizona primary is over and now we need to focus on how to keep voters from being disenfranchised in the future as they were yesterday.

I don't see that as being possible against a Trump who gets the protest vote.

Many people see that Hillary is pro TPP, pro Mode Four (look at her position on Haiti) and they see Trump as better chance of opposition to these horrible trade deals.

With Hillary, her husband signed GATS.

Not exactly a protest vote there!

Its all cool.

The democratic party can't be both progressive and conservative at the same time. This won't work well.

---

it will get worse before it gets better.

People need to look at the bigger picture. Once your candidate wins the primary, it isn't over. You still have to fight the voter suppression machine in November.

Sad to see it in our party.

I can't tell the difference between Hillary supporters and republicans.

Expanding the voting time to weeks seems voter friendly but it actually makes it harder to track the number of ballots cast. So while a person can walk in and vote six days a week, they need to be able to negotiate getting to the BOE to do it. Then, you toss your ballot in a bin with averyone else that may simply be depositing their absentee ballots. No count or record of the total ballots received. EVerthing they have done in the last fifteen years has made it harder to keep track of votes. The voter ID requirement was another nail in the coffin.

A country at illegal, immoral war for 14 years (this time) has created a heartless breed of people. That is the only way that I can describe it. We kill, that's our business. It is eating us from the inside out. Voter suppression is a symptom of this. If people can't get around to vote, if they have to work, if they don't have an ID or live in a shelter and fon't have an address....well they are losers and don't need to vote. It is crazy, sad and downright disgusting.

"We kill. That's our business. It's eating us from the inside out."

True, and combined with the level of economic inequality--we have "become a heartless breed of people."

on one hand and seeking to invalidate and delegitimize the votes that were cast yesterday.

Particularly when it's done out of nakedly partisan bias.

To wit: all of the Bernie people whining that Clinton somehow stole Arizona because of the actions of the Arizona Republican elected officials, LOVE LOVE LOVE caucuses which are far worse in terms of vote suppression.

But, at the same time, there should be no indifference or outright snarkiness over those who were not allowed to cast votes legitimately or who were discouraged from casting their votes through the artificial creation of difficult conditions. We need to fight this now, rather than waiting until the GE and hoping it will be fine then.

stole the AZ election are seeking to have the results thrown out for a 'revote'

And they're the same people who called for every Clinton voter in Nevada to have their vote thrown out so that Bernie got all of the delegates from Nevada.

And they're the same people who called for every Clinton voter in Massachusetts to have their vote thrown out so that Bernie got all of the delegates from Massachusetts.

The well has been pretty much poisoned by boy who cried wolfism and cynical exploitation for partisan purposes.

once the primary is over, we can start coming together to fight this.

every time Bernie Sanders wins.

On the voter suppression itself. 100% agree. No voter.. regardless of the candidate or even Party they support should ever be disenfranchised. period.

What happens in Arizona yesterday is disgusting, and I really hope the voters of that state start taking action to change their political landscape and get changes made to fix it.

You bring up blinders though. Your argument would carry a LOT more weight (imo) if it wasn't for the attacks on Clinton supporters with claims that this disenfranchisement wasn't somehow linked to her, and not who is actually to blame.. the Republican governor, and Republican majority state legislature.

I'm going to toss a Rec your way anyway. The critical message of condemning voter suppression is one I agree with.

we stopped caring about mindless, useless wars and crony corporatism

They don't care how they win. And they don't THINK AHEAD of how it will effect the race in the general.

I am just amazed by how many people here are so flippant and snarky about voter suppression, especially knowing what we have endured with respect to that for so long.

Sanders supporters have claimed fraud in any state they thought they would win, and dismiss others as being red states. They cried foul over the order of the states and the number of debates. They cried foul over public polling, including one going so far as to say that posting them was literally suffocating Sanders supporters. And yet they tout any poll showing Sanders doing better.

At some point, people stop listening to incessant complaints that are without merit, especially given that it's clearly only raised in an effort to explain why Sanders isn't winning.

It's an extraordinary claim to say that Clinton and/or the DNC is cheating. But it's never offered.

This has to do with 70% of the polling places being shut down. This has to do with long lines discouraging voters, especially ones new to the party. This has to do with lifelong Democrats having their affiliations changed. These are all documented and all versions of voter suppression.

If we want to have a leg to stand on in November when the inevitable issues arise, we need to clean these issues now. You may want to go back and read my OP again - this has nothing to do with a specific candidate, this has to do with disenfranchising voters and something that needs to be addressed rather than dismissed with snark and indifference because a specific candidate won or lost.

(It's OK If It Benefits Hillary)

Seriously, there is NO HRC supporter here who is OK with what went on in AZ. Most of them have been on threads condemning it, laying out the facts of who caused it (Republicans in AZ). Your OP is dishonest, and you know it. No one on this board has been OK with voter suppression in AZ.

Including in this very thread. The point isn't to call people out though and you will note I called nobody out in my OP. There is nothing dishonest here and I would request you retract your statement.

And you're blaming HRC supporters because of what Republicans did in AZ. There wasn't enough voter suppression to flip the vote for Bernie, and there is NO way that poll workers would know if the person they turned away were Bernie supporters.

You are being dishonest, I stand by my statement.

I named no candidates and actually included this line about Arizona:

"Yes, the decision of a Republican to close 70% of the polling locations in a working class area led to much of this, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be fighting for each and every person who wanted to vote yesterday just as we should, and have been fighting for each and every person anywhere who wants to vote."

So, as you can see, not only did I not blame a set of supporters for anything, I additionally noted the blame to be place on the Republicans. Also, your statement regarding knowing they were Bernie supporters also didn't come up in my OP. From the OP itself:

"Regardless of which way any of those voters would have voted (and we really have no idea), we should be fighting for every voter to have their voice heard, not only when it benefits us."

As such, both of your statements above are either willful deceit or failure to comprehend what I wrote. I don't believe that allowing those voters to vote would have flipped anything to Bernie and as far as I am concerned they could have been 100% Hillary voters, as I have mentioned elsewhere in the thread.

I will ask once again that you withdraw your accusation of dishonesty as I have proven each of your statements to be false.

+1

Things look tough enough to those not doing all that well. A fair deal is essential to us all.

When votes are suppressed, voters are discouraged and do not come out for further elections.

Hypocrisy abounds in the Democratic Party.

A Republican chose to close 70% of the polling places and create this issue. The party affiliation issue, I believe, would be a state issue as well, again leaning toward the Republicans. Where we become no better than the Republicans is when we treat these things with indifference and ignorance rather than standing up for everyone to get their turn to express their voice through their vote.

as long as it serves their agenda. They'll stop at NOTHING for more wars, more fracking and climate change, more inequality, more for profit prisons, more terrible trade deals, and more economic meltdowns. No honor, no morality, no respect for Democracy, no more Democratic Party!

Republicans?"

Pro Tip--that's not how liberals talk.

If I wanted to insult you, I'd tell you where I think you're coming from.

I'll leave it to others to surmise.

Talk issues--stop slinging shit. It splashes back on YOU.

Manipulation of the voting process (election fraud vis a vis voter suppression, etc.) is an existential threat to democracy. While some remain silent or mock the inconsistencies when it benefits their candidate, ultimately it is detrimental to every citizen in an otherwise free and open society.

Oh, wait, that's only Bernie followers.