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jillan

(39,451 posts)
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:39 AM Mar 2016

Bernie Supporters PLEASE do not blame Hillary for what happened in AZ & VICE VERSA

What happened in Arizona happened to BOTH Hillary and Bernie voters.

This is not about Hillary v Bernie.

This is about Democrats vs Republicans in power at the state level.

This is one time when we must be united.
Get mad at the Gop on this one not at each other.

This could very well have been a practice run for November....Keep that in mind.

135 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Bernie Supporters PLEASE do not blame Hillary for what happened in AZ & VICE VERSA (Original Post) jillan Mar 2016 OP
Too bad Hillary supporters can't see what this portends for November. Cobalt Violet Mar 2016 #1
Exactly. KPN Mar 2016 #33
If Trump is the Republican candidate randr Mar 2016 #84
We do, that's why many more will take advantage of early voting. Pisces Mar 2016 #90
There has been shenanigans at the caucus and convention level by Hillary's people in Iowa All in it together Mar 2016 #2
No doubt! CoffeeCat Mar 2016 #35
Exactly scscholar Mar 2016 #82
Actually...not really CoffeeCat Mar 2016 #87
"cut it out" desmiller Mar 2016 #78
Yep - DU Dems should know this is GOP ELECTION FRAUD, as usual. blm Mar 2016 #3
Lol!!!! KPN Mar 2016 #34
Arizona had nothing to do with Hillary or the Dem Party dbackjon Mar 2016 #44
Lol vdogg Mar 2016 #53
Dem election officials blocked Dems from voting booth? Please share blm Mar 2016 #74
I made a long post once, wildeyed Mar 2016 #89
You are spot on! Punkingal Mar 2016 #4
Exactly right pandr32 Mar 2016 #7
Can we blame the DNC for being silent during all this? Gwhittey Mar 2016 #5
No - since they protested the number of polling places BEFORE the election. dbackjon Mar 2016 #45
It is up to the state party, candidates wildeyed Mar 2016 #92
EXACTLY. One thing I noticed while watching ALL of the primary results was chalky Mar 2016 #6
That's actually pretty normal. jeff47 Mar 2016 #11
Can you point me in the direction where you're seeing data to back up this trend? chalky Mar 2016 #96
They also have more candidates LisaM Mar 2016 #127
You keep saying this but I see no evidence on Twitter TBF Mar 2016 #8
Didn't you know that the reduction of precincts in Maricopa County from 200 to 60 Tanuki Mar 2016 #14
When you go into the polls to vote they do not know who you are going to vote for. jillan Mar 2016 #15
That is not evidence from Hillary TBF Mar 2016 #25
I agree completely. We cannot let this stand. yourpaljoey Mar 2016 #32
You have to remember that Bernie supporters tend to be more savvy when it comes to social media Matt_in_STL Mar 2016 #64
I know a number of Hillary voters that this happened too. dbackjon Mar 2016 #46
But we've expected shinanigans and SwiftBoating because that's what the Wealthy do. rhett o rick Mar 2016 #9
Sure Rick. zappaman Mar 2016 #29
Enormous K & R. Thanks for posting. Surya Gayatri Mar 2016 #10
I think everyone should step back from this. Both sides NWCorona Mar 2016 #12
Just like in InDecision 2000, keep it within reach, then steal it in broad day light. nolabels Mar 2016 #22
Yup. Agschmid Mar 2016 #59
I blame the party for doing basically nothing on the entire subject. jeff47 Mar 2016 #13
DWS better show up and fight this. This could have been a test run for November. jillan Mar 2016 #17
How about blaming the 90% of voters that failed to show up in 2014 dbackjon Mar 2016 #48
That's also on the party. jeff47 Mar 2016 #52
In 2014 we had an bad candidate for Governor dbackjon Mar 2016 #56
Then they weren't dynamite. jeff47 Mar 2016 #62
What did YOU do to fight this? wildeyed Mar 2016 #93
Then point me towards all the massive efforts by the party. jeff47 Mar 2016 #128
We talk about this "fucking" issue all the time. wildeyed Mar 2016 #133
K&R. I agree completely. DanTex Mar 2016 #16
Yup, agreed! nt riderinthestorm Mar 2016 #18
They've got to find out what happened with provisional ballot mess, the lines, wrong registrations EndElectoral Mar 2016 #19
I don't. I understand voter suppression in red states. mmonk Mar 2016 #20
Totally agree but why in the primary? It will not help them jwirr Mar 2016 #41
The GOP establishment didn't want people voting for Trump, either. dbackjon Mar 2016 #50
Reducing the number of polling places in Latino population centers would help Trump, not hurt him onenote Mar 2016 #65
They reduced them everywhere dbackjon Mar 2016 #73
Systems test? I have no idea unless consistency of the system. mmonk Mar 2016 #57
I asked my self that last night when I heard of it. Well I do jwirr Mar 2016 #66
Agreed. mmonk Mar 2016 #77
What do you call the finger pointing at Clinton/DNC? joshcryer Mar 2016 #111
Exactly - I'm in NC and the GOP fascists are turning voter suppression into an art form here. blm Mar 2016 #75
Yep. I've marched in downtown Raleigh now mmonk Mar 2016 #76
check your inbox - blm Mar 2016 #86
Done. mmonk Mar 2016 #94
It also happened to Republicans and Greens DesertRat Mar 2016 #21
Isn't what you are saying the latest meme? jwirr Mar 2016 #38
Many or most of the Indies that showed up to vote had reregistered to Dem. HooptieWagon Mar 2016 #42
I would like to see her oldandhappy Mar 2016 #23
You got your wish.....granted nearly a year ago.... Tanuki Mar 2016 #85
nothing about the actual "counting" of votes questionseverything Mar 2016 #102
I don't know any of the details cheapdate Mar 2016 #24
I think it was incompetence and an untested new system sweetloukillbot Mar 2016 #106
You hit on two problems Aerows Mar 2016 #112
They are. EVERYONE is calling for the recorder's head. nt sweetloukillbot Mar 2016 #113
They should be! Aerows Mar 2016 #114
Strongest recommendation. We need to stand together against disenfranchisement. suffragette Mar 2016 #26
Exactly. mmonk Mar 2016 #103
Bernie spoke up. Will Hillary denounce it? NowSam Mar 2016 #27
She did. Agschmid Mar 2016 #60
Proving again her contempt NowSam Mar 2016 #69
So she calls out the issues in an election, a year before it happens. Agschmid Mar 2016 #72
Arizona Secretary of State, Michele Reagan, is the culprit. Agnosticsherbet Mar 2016 #28
This was all on the County Recorder sweetloukillbot Mar 2016 #118
I agree. Luminous Animal Mar 2016 #30
I don't blame Hillary. n/t Herman4747 Mar 2016 #31
Until we have proof of exactly what happened I agree with jwirr Mar 2016 #36
I agree with the OP. floriduck Mar 2016 #37
Come on Jillian BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #39
Yes they were powerless. Yes they complained before the election dbackjon Mar 2016 #51
Our Governor was bought and paid for by the Koch brothers. Not a joke. jillan Mar 2016 #61
Did the DNC or Hillary try to do anything about it? BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #70
What do you think they should have done? wildeyed Mar 2016 #95
In the month you've been here, it APPEARS you WANT to see GOP crimes shifted to Dems blm Mar 2016 #79
Great post! kicked and recced eom Arazi Mar 2016 #40
Right. . . I have criticized her and her campaign, but all we KNOW is that there was a mess pdsimdars Mar 2016 #43
I don't blame Hillary democrattotheend Mar 2016 #47
Has the DNC done anything before, during, or after the fiasco? HooptieWagon Mar 2016 #49
Exactly right, Hillary and the DNC benefit from voter suppression in Arizona BernieforPres2016 Mar 2016 #68
Nope. wildeyed Mar 2016 #98
Our system is corrupt, top to bottom, side to side... polichick Mar 2016 #54
Wrong! wildeyed Mar 2016 #117
"All they have left is money and dirty tricks." Same can be said of corporate Dems. polichick Mar 2016 #119
OK, then show some proof. wildeyed Mar 2016 #120
If you think HRC is all about everyone voting this primary season... polichick Mar 2016 #121
Proof. wildeyed Mar 2016 #122
My own experience as a party activist for 40+ years is all the proof I need... polichick Mar 2016 #124
You are confused. wildeyed Mar 2016 #125
Don't worry - you'll learn how it works eventually. polichick Mar 2016 #126
I know how it works. wildeyed Mar 2016 #132
I stand by my original statement that you deemed "wrong"... polichick Mar 2016 #135
This was not a Hillary v. Bernie Issue. RepubliCON-Watch Mar 2016 #55
Except for the impossible discrepancies between exit polling and official results, I agree. Kip Humphrey Mar 2016 #58
I'm one Hillary supporter... JSup Mar 2016 #63
You ought to check out this video. PotatoChip Mar 2016 #67
When you have the Dem National Party seemingly discouraging voter turnout to ensure their chosen AzDar Mar 2016 #71
How has the DNC "discouraged voter turnout"? brooklynite Mar 2016 #88
Link please. wildeyed Mar 2016 #91
I don't blame Hillary. I urge her to use her voice to help condemn it. Tom Rinaldo Mar 2016 #80
The long lines in Arizona were due to the gutting of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act Gothmog Mar 2016 #81
Was Arizona a voting rights state? wildeyed Mar 2016 #97
No, Arizona was one of the 15 states with special federal oversight protection under the VR act. Tanuki Mar 2016 #104
Yes, it was a covered jurisdiction under Section 5 of the voting rights act Gothmog Mar 2016 #105
And we are seeing why. wildeyed Mar 2016 #110
The date of inclusion is on the chart from the DOJ Gothmog Mar 2016 #115
I blame the Third Way DINO legislators who have not protected our interests Zorra Mar 2016 #83
Don't kid yourselves, it's BOTH parties. Those in control NorthCarolina Mar 2016 #99
If you are really from NC, wildeyed Mar 2016 #108
This system hursts all Dems, Clinton included Bad Thoughts Mar 2016 #100
The repubs in charge in AZ closed all the polling places. But where were the dems? ViseGrip Mar 2016 #101
Is the Hillary campaign screaming to the rooftops ibegurpard Mar 2016 #107
Exactly! Blue_In_AK Mar 2016 #109
No blaming per se. The complaint is that they are willing to turn a blind eye when it benefits them. AtomicKitten Mar 2016 #116
Exactly - there was plenty of chortling from a few of the Hillary supporters that the complaints bullwinkle428 Mar 2016 #129
I agree that the GOP is behind actual election shenanigans PufPuf23 Mar 2016 #123
I remember back in 2004 when election fraud was a very serious subject here eridani Mar 2016 #130
It is still a serious issue. wildeyed Mar 2016 #134
Kick to the top yardwork Mar 2016 #131

Cobalt Violet

(9,905 posts)
1. Too bad Hillary supporters can't see what this portends for November.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:44 AM
Mar 2016

They are mistaken if they continue to dismiss this as sour grapes.

randr

(12,408 posts)
84. If Trump is the Republican candidate
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:03 PM
Mar 2016

I predict he will have goons at most precincts with the excuse they are protecting their voters from the likes of the Black Panthers etal. He has only gotten so far through intimidation and it will not end.

All in it together

(275 posts)
2. There has been shenanigans at the caucus and convention level by Hillary's people in Iowa
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:45 AM
Mar 2016

So if you want us to work together, cut it out.

CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
35. No doubt!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:11 PM
Mar 2016

I sat in that county convention room with 500+ Bernie supporters.

Bernie was ahead in the counts at the beginning of the day.

11 hours later--he was behind.

But supposedly, this was all part of the process. Nothing to see here. All is well. So, so sorry that took 11 hours and some of your people left. It wasn't our fault.

Shenanigans take many, many forms. And there's ALWAYS an excuse for them. Always an explanation. But the funny thing is...they always harm Bernie and help Hillary.

So, I guess the moral of the story is--from state to state to state--Bernie supporters will continue to complain about cheating, fraud, shenanigans and sleight of hand--while the Clinton camp reaps the benefits.





CoffeeCat

(24,411 posts)
87. Actually...not really
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:13 PM
Mar 2016

In 2008, we had record participation in our Iowa caucuses. No problems. This year it was a shit show.

And it continues to be a shit show at the convention level, in some counties.

Caucuses actually leave less room for fraud. One person, one vote. It's transparent. It's out in the open. People can try to cheat. And if they're highly organized and they plan the cheating--and they've got a state political apparatus that is helping them, and they're lucky--they can pull off cheating. However, it takes a great deal of effort. Effort that the Clinton camp has no problem exerting.

I don't think we'll ever see cheating at this level, ever again. I've experienced several Iowa Caucus cycles and I've never experienced anything like this. It's batshit crazy.

I look at it this way. Electronic election fraud happens behind the scenes and is nearly undetectable and doesn't require much. If it happens, there's really nothing you can do about it.

At least with caucus cheating, there are witnesses, people filming and the cheating and shenanigans really are out in the open. You can't always get away with it and there is a greater likelihood that you'll be caught.

blm

(112,920 posts)
3. Yep - DU Dems should know this is GOP ELECTION FRAUD, as usual.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:46 AM
Mar 2016

Last edited Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Dems don't suppress voters while sitting in their offices and making decisions to eliminate polling places and change voter requirements. This is what GOP has been doing for 2 decades now.

I am not mystified at those posters working overtime to take the CRIMES OF REPUBLICANS and then shift the blame onto the Dem party. GOP internet strategy has increased its focus on Dem forums like DU, especially during the primaries, since 2003-4.

KPN

(15,587 posts)
34. Lol!!!!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:10 PM
Mar 2016

Let's see ... Iowa, Mass, Nevada, Arizona --- I'm sure I missewd at least one.

Too funny!

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
44. Arizona had nothing to do with Hillary or the Dem Party
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:17 PM
Mar 2016

If you think that, then that makes me think the rest of your list is wrong as well.

vdogg

(1,384 posts)
53. Lol
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:24 PM
Mar 2016

Everywhere you lost narrowly is fraud and everywhere you won narrowly is a fair election. Gotcha.

blm

(112,920 posts)
74. Dem election officials blocked Dems from voting booth? Please share
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:36 PM
Mar 2016

your evidence for that. Why are you ASSUMING Democratic officials suppressed these votes in Arizona when the decisions that blocked Dem voters were made by GOP officials in charge and in the office of the GOP run election board?

Your eagerness to pretend that it was Dem officials blocking Dem votes in Arizona has left you hanging your hat on the assumption that GOP was not involved and had no control over the election landscape in Arizona.

And, as a Sanders voter, if I believed as you 'appear' to that Democrats are blocking other Democrats from voting, then I might also want to wonder why they WANTED to do it in a state where HRC was expected to win in a landslide, but, they chose to NOT do it in must-win states like Michigan and Illinois where it was uncomfortably close?

Does LOGIC ever enter into the calculation?

I sure would love for Sanders to be our nominee, but, that doesn't mean I need to turn logic on its head in order to support that goal.

Thank you, jillan, for sharing that goal with your logic intact.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
89. I made a long post once,
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:32 PM
Mar 2016

explaining with math why Dems do not suppress turnout, ever, and why this has nothing to do with progressive vs. conservative wings of the party and everything to do with electoral math. i would repost it here, but I don't think anyone would read that long (except maybe you).

I remember the time that Governor Easley, the DINO-est DINO to ever DINO, proclaimed a day in September "NC Voter Registration Day" and forced Walmart to let our coalition group, which included ACORN and NAACP, register voters at their stores in East and West Charlotte. I turned in several hundred forms from West that day, nearly all POC, majority Dem. Gawd the Reps hated that!

Easley knew how to do math. He wouldn't have been seen in the same room with any of us, but he damn well know who brought the votes, so he kept those lanes clear for us behind the scenes.

Interesting that most who are flogging the "DNC/Clinton suppresses voters" meme are low post newbies. Hmmmmm.....

Punkingal

(9,522 posts)
4. You are spot on!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:47 AM
Mar 2016

This was a voter suppression problem, set up by the GOP. It IS bad news for November. It is scary for our democracy.

 

Gwhittey

(1,377 posts)
5. Can we blame the DNC for being silent during all this?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:47 AM
Mar 2016

Or is the media just not reporting on how DNC is fighting this. Seems odd that they did nothing about it in other states that voting was messed up. I think DWS has no clue what she is doing or that she does and it is trying to skew elections for GOP.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
92. It is up to the state party, candidates
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:38 PM
Mar 2016

or voters to bring suit. The DNC has nothing to do with this. They may be providing counsel behind the scenes, but it is not their role to lead the charge. I get that you hate DWS, and there are plenty of good reasons to do that, but his is not one. Just make you look ignorant about how politics works. You should stop.

chalky

(3,297 posts)
6. EXACTLY. One thing I noticed while watching ALL of the primary results was
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:49 AM
Mar 2016

Regardless of who won the Democratic primary, the Republicans ALWAYS seemed to have more total votes. I seriously doubt that this was because there was a huge crowd of republicans anxious to get out there and put their stamp of approval on Trump.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
11. That's actually pretty normal.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:07 AM
Mar 2016

The usual pattern after 8 years is the opposite party is far more excited, and so has higher turnout.

Also the Republican primary was not declared over in 2014, so their voters are far easier to get out.

chalky

(3,297 posts)
96. Can you point me in the direction where you're seeing data to back up this trend?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:56 PM
Mar 2016

Would really like to see numbers that confirm this, rather than just accept it as conventional wisdom. Preferably numbers that reach back further than the advent of electronic voting. Thx.

TBF

(31,922 posts)
8. You keep saying this but I see no evidence on Twitter
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:52 AM
Mar 2016

to indicate that this happened to supporters of Hillary.

Do you have any evidence to show us? I know the republicans are assholes. Obviously. But in most states each party runs their own primary. How is AZ different? Where is the evidence that it is different? I'm willing to listen if you have some evidence to back this up. I have been looking and can't find anything.

Tanuki

(14,893 posts)
14. Didn't you know that the reduction of precincts in Maricopa County from 200 to 60
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:11 AM
Mar 2016

was the decision of Republican Helen Purcell, the county recorder? That was a strong area of support for HRC, so voter suppression there hurt her proportionally to the same degree that it did Sanders, just to give an obvious example. Helen Purcell's role was even discussed in the Bernie group, if you don't believe me:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280155136

jillan

(39,451 posts)
15. When you go into the polls to vote they do not know who you are going to vote for.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:11 AM
Mar 2016

You get either a Democrat Ballot or a Republican Ballot.

The people that stood in line last nite until midnite to vote were Democrats. No one knows who they were voting for.

TBF

(31,922 posts)
25. That is not evidence from Hillary
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:59 AM
Mar 2016

Supporters that they were unable to vote. I.e. I'll continue to look but I think this affected Bernie to a much greater degree as evidenced by the voters who have posted online about their experiences.

 

Matt_in_STL

(1,446 posts)
64. You have to remember that Bernie supporters tend to be more savvy when it comes to social media
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:29 PM
Mar 2016

I wouldn't be surprised to see them have a more vocal presence there.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
46. I know a number of Hillary voters that this happened too.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:19 PM
Mar 2016

In Arizona, the Presidential Preference Election is run 100% by the state and county.


All GOP.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
9. But we've expected shinanigans and SwiftBoating because that's what the Wealthy do.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 10:56 AM
Mar 2016

They have money and expect to be able to buy the results they want. Why some people claiming to be Democrats would side with the rich liars and cheaters is sad but understandable. They like the tough power of a strong authoritarian leader and Clinton is Thatcher tough.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
12. I think everyone should step back from this. Both sides
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:08 AM
Mar 2016

Last edited Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:30 PM - Edit history (1)

Arizona was a mess last night and both sides were affected. Let's focus our ire on the state officials who dropped the ball on this.

nolabels

(13,133 posts)
22. Just like in InDecision 2000, keep it within reach, then steal it in broad day light.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:22 AM
Mar 2016

They will not have SCOTUS for a final say, so probably use something like succession or armed revolt to carry it out. That other side is quite nuts so nothing is going to be a surprise for me this time around.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
13. I blame the party for doing basically nothing on the entire subject.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:10 AM
Mar 2016

Since 2000, it has been utterly obvious that there are major election fraud and election issues throughout the country, with massive Republican efforts to exacerbate those problems.

Yet our party has done almost nothing about it.

So while I do not specifically blame Clinton for AZ yesterday, she is a very large part of the party establishment that has been almost completely ignoring these issues for almost 20 years.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
48. How about blaming the 90% of voters that failed to show up in 2014
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:20 PM
Mar 2016

And allowed the GOP to sweep the State and County offices?



And there were some very Progressive candidates on the ballot.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
52. That's also on the party.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:24 PM
Mar 2016

It's the job of the party and its candidates to win votes.

We ran the worst midterm campaigns I have ever seen in 2014 and 2010. The voters responded to our abysmal campaign.

We are not entitled to votes. We have to earn them. When we fail to earn them, that is not the voters fault.

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
56. In 2014 we had an bad candidate for Governor
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:26 PM
Mar 2016

But the SOS, AG, and School Superintendent were dynamite - but no one came out.


jeff47

(26,549 posts)
62. Then they weren't dynamite.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:28 PM
Mar 2016

Fundamentally, the job of a politician is to get people to come out and vote for them. If the people don't come out and vote, that politician is doing something wrong.

Those candidates may have been fantastic on issues, but a very large part of their job, and the state party's job, is to get voters to the polls.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
93. What did YOU do to fight this?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:49 PM
Mar 2016

And what would you propose that the DNC should actually DO?

And no one has been ignoring the issue, except maybe you. Anyone who has been paying attention knows about this problem. Fundamentally, young and progressive voters need to show up more than once every four years to vote. The only thing that keeps suppression from happening is keeping the GOP out of statehouses and then winning the Supreme Court back.

DNC cannot do SHIT about this. And it is on ANYONE who was too precious or bored to show up at the midterm elections when this type of thing happens.

jeff47

(26,549 posts)
128. Then point me towards all the massive efforts by the party.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:10 PM
Mar 2016
And no one has been ignoring the issue, except maybe you.

Then point me towards all the massive efforts by the party to fight election fraud.

Fundamentally, young and progressive voters need to show up more than once every four years to vote

Not election fraud.

The only thing that keeps suppression from happening is keeping the GOP out of statehouses and then winning the Supreme Court back.

So you're now claiming there's no possible efforts, right after claiming there's massive efforts.

DNC cannot do SHIT about this.

Yes, they can do lots about it. In states where we have a majority, we can pass laws making voting easier. We haven't.

In states where we do not have a majority, we could actually talk about the fucking issue in our campaigns.

Heck, the DNC can do things like file/help file lawsuits when shit like AZ happens.

Instead, almost no Democratic candidates are talking about it.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
133. We talk about this "fucking" issue all the time.
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:02 AM
Mar 2016

You do not pay attention. That is on you. And in states where we have a majority we HAVE passed better access laws. Again, you do not pay attention. I have links if you want them, but not going to bother right now because I think you are more investing in your narrative than in learning the actual facts.

If you are mad about primary rules, then THAT is a party issue, but at the state level. You have to become a party precinct chair or committee member to have a say in that. There is a precinct-level organizing group on this very site that is basically vacant. Go set up shop there and start brainstorming about how you can re-take the party apparatus for the True Progressives™ of the world. I'm serious. Go do that.

It is not the DNC's job to file lawsuits at the state level. I don't even know if they can LEGALLY do that, even if they wanted to. They might do some support and organization, but their job is to coordinate national messaging and to put on the convention. They have no expertise or staff in this particular area of law.

State parties and voting rights c3's generally do the lawsuits. NAACP in NC has a bunch wending their way through the courts right now. When the Supreme Court dismantled Voting Rights Act and took out section 5, the pre-clearance clause, that was problematic. The lawsuits in progress are based on the section 3, which has not been tested much since section 5 was a much stronger protection. We are having some luck with section 3 lawsuits here in NC, but it has required multiple appeals and nothing is fully settled yet.

Once there is some clear precedent in our favor, you will see more lawsuits. With Scalia dead, there is a MUCH better shot at that too.

So, as usual, the answer is complicated..... The DNC does not have fairy dust and a magic wand that can make stuff like this go away. You seem VERY confused about the nature and scope of their abilities.

And as others have pointed out, this mess is also on all the "progressive" voters who sit out for midterm elections. It is your civic duty to vote. Candidates are not entertainers and some are better than others. Just because you are not entertained by the choices one year, that does not excuse you from your duty. And if you don't like the candidates, then run yourself. Or find one you DO like and get them to run. Recruiting good candidates is difficult. Instead of playing Monday morning quarterback, you need to get in the actual game.

mmonk

(52,589 posts)
20. I don't. I understand voter suppression in red states.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:16 AM
Mar 2016

Republicans depend on voter suppression to win elections.

onenote

(42,383 posts)
65. Reducing the number of polling places in Latino population centers would help Trump, not hurt him
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:29 PM
Mar 2016
 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
73. They reduced them everywhere
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:36 PM
Mar 2016

Latinos aren't voting in the GOP primary, so that neither helps or hurts Trump.


It would in the general.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
66. I asked my self that last night when I heard of it. Well I do
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:29 PM
Mar 2016

hope it is investigated because not matter what caused it or even who it should not happen.

joshcryer

(62,265 posts)
111. What do you call the finger pointing at Clinton/DNC?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:52 PM
Mar 2016

Not helpful to the republican's?

It's simple, they do something, anything wrong, the democrats get blamed.

blm

(112,920 posts)
75. Exactly - I'm in NC and the GOP fascists are turning voter suppression into an art form here.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:39 PM
Mar 2016

.

mmonk

(52,589 posts)
76. Yep. I've marched in downtown Raleigh now
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:43 PM
Mar 2016

for the last few years and had rather just have fair elections. Frustrating.

DesertRat

(27,995 posts)
21. It also happened to Republicans and Greens
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:20 AM
Mar 2016

as well as registered Democrats. The Maricopa County recorder's office greatly underestimated the number of people who would show up. 70% of registered voters in the county are on the permanent early voter list. Much of the confusion came from independents who didn't know that they couldn't vote.

I urge my fellow Arizonans to sign up for the early voter ballot, like my family and I do. You can mail back your ballot or bring it on election day, and drop it off (no need to wait in line).


https://voter.azsos.gov/VoterView/Home.do

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
42. Many or most of the Indies that showed up to vote had reregistered to Dem.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:16 PM
Mar 2016

And a lot of life-long Dems had their registrations mysteriously switched to R or I. While there may have been some confused Is that showed up to vote, one of the big problems seems to have been a voter registration data base that was completely fucked up. If that was merely incompetence, then it was on a grand scale.... It would be hard to screw up that bad if you deliberately tried.

oldandhappy

(6,719 posts)
23. I would like to see her
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:30 AM
Mar 2016

take an interest and make a stand for voter rights. Then maybe I could believe!

Tanuki

(14,893 posts)
85. You got your wish.....granted nearly a year ago....
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:04 PM
Mar 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/05/opinion/hillary-clinton-voting-rights-and-the-2016-election.html?_r=0


...."a bold set of proposals that Hillary Rodham Clinton laid out Thursday afternoon in a speech at Texas Southern University, a historically black college in Houston.
........
Most significantly, Mrs. Clinton called for universal and automatic voter registration, which would register every American citizen at 18. This would be a transformative step toward modernizing the nation’s archaic, error-filled approach to registering voters.
.........

Mrs. Clinton also called for at least 20 days of early voting nationwide, including evenings and weekends. This is a proven way of reducing long lines on Election Day and making voting possible for people whose work or other commitments prevent them from getting to the polls during regular business hours. More than one-third of all votes in the 2012 election were cast early — and yet 14 states still do not offer it, and crucial swing states like Ohio and Florida have actually cut it back.

Finally, Mrs. Clinton pushed to repeal punitive state laws that ban people with criminal records from voting, sometimes for life — a population that approaches six million nationwide.

These are hardly new issues for the country, and the Republican Party as it now is constituted in Congress is not going to enact the laws to expand voter registration. Still, it is very encouraging to see Mrs. Clinton championing this central democratic principle so early in the campaign. President Obama said very little on voting rights until deep into his second term, even after the Supreme Court gutted the Voting Rights Act in 2013, freeing up Republican-dominated state governments to enact dozens of new voting restrictions that previously would have been blocked by federal law.
.........
(more at link)

questionseverything

(9,631 posts)
102. nothing about the actual "counting" of votes
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:23 PM
Mar 2016

az has the best documented case of election theft in the country

http://www.sweetremedy.tv/fatallyflawed/media/RTA_Fraud_Flyer_3_7_12.pdf

This responds to a recent letter to the editor asking whether Supervisor Ally Miller is correct that there was never any verification of the 2006 Regional Transportation Authority (RTA) election. Supervisor Miller is incorrect. A conspiracy theorist suggested the county flipped the 2006 RTA election. After an investigation by the Arizona attorney general, who hand-counted every ballot cast for that election, the results were the same. A complete hand count of every ballot by the Arizona attorney general is the best verification that these election results were correctly reported. To suggest otherwise is simply political grandstanding with the intent to deceive and mislead voters.

Our response:

Huckelberry: If it was a "conspiracy theorist" that caught your Elections Division rigging the RTA election, why would you then spend millions of taxpayers' dollars after Goddard's recount to prevent a simple forensic exam of the ballots?

Goddard alleged in his press conference that they did such a good job, they found 63 additional ballots. Evidently, this was supposed to distract the public from the fact their count was missing four precincts' worth of ballots.

Goddard's investigation was so bad it garnered national attention on the Mike Malloy show once it was discovered that over a third of the poll tapes (that Goddard refused to inspect) were missing.

The missing poll tapes strongly correspond with electronic records of the RTA election showing memory card re-uploads characteristic of an attempt to pre-program memory cards.

From the perspective of a statistical analysis, one only has to consider the odds for the same precincts experiencing the same re-upload errors correlating to the same missing poll tapes.

Goddard had also refused to perform a forensic exam of the ballots, despite a previous move by the county to compromise court evidence. On the day of his press conference, Goddard acknowledged to the public on the John C. Scott show that he was aware of Pima County violating a court order by compromising evidence in the county vault.

//////////////////////////////

goddard was a democrat

cheapdate

(3,811 posts)
24. I don't know any of the details
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:33 AM
Mar 2016

but my starting premise would be that problems were not caused by malfeasance but by honest mistakes by well-intentioned but not necessarily super competent persons.

sweetloukillbot

(10,814 posts)
106. I think it was incompetence and an untested new system
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:54 PM
Mar 2016

They didn't expect large crowds due to the high volume of early voting, so they decided to cut corners. The registration SNAFUs, though, I have no explanation. Although I did have to use a new system to verify myself so something must not have been updated along the way. Local news is all over this and everyone is pissed at the County Recorder.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
112. You hit on two problems
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:03 PM
Mar 2016

"incompetence and an untested new system"

But that isn't the whole story. They had a bomb scare and had to evacuate one polling place, and reduced the number of polling places from 200 to 60.

I'd be surprised if there aren't Republicans fuming about this shit show as much as Democrats are.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
114. They should be!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:30 PM
Mar 2016

This was a failure of epic proportions. There's incompetence, and then there is ... what happened at the polls in AZ.

suffragette

(12,232 posts)
26. Strongest recommendation. We need to stand together against disenfranchisement.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:01 PM
Mar 2016

As I posted elsewhere, at least one AZ Democrat had been warning this might happen and had been trying to address it before the primary.

This suppression impacts local and general elections as well as furthering the meme that minority, poor and young voters don't turn out to vote.

It's wrong and needs to be addressed NOW by all of us together.

NowSam

(1,252 posts)
69. Proving again her contempt
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:31 PM
Mar 2016

for the electorate. Last night was a disgrace and she didn't speak of that. Makes her as dirty as that election.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
72. So she calls out the issues in an election, a year before it happens.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:34 PM
Mar 2016

She speaks against voter supression, calls it out for what it is...

Then the republicans of AZ make it happen, and you blame her?

That's just ridiculous, but I'm 100% NOT suprises by your reaction.

sweetloukillbot

(10,814 posts)
118. This was all on the County Recorder
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 05:20 PM
Mar 2016

It was only Maricopa with problems, and she' getting nasty and defiant about responsibility. I always respected her and thought she did a pretty nonpartisan job - but this is all on her and she's refusing to take responsibility for the numerous problems.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
36. Until we have proof of exactly what happened I agree with
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:11 PM
Mar 2016

you. However, I reserve the right to blame the DNC and DWS - they should be screaming for an unbiased investigation.

 

floriduck

(2,262 posts)
37. I agree with the OP.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:13 PM
Mar 2016

But I also believe it is imperative for the state Democratic Party AND the DNC to dig into this and pressure the Arizona Republican leadership to account for their complete lack of integrity and decency. And it should be done in a way that exposes the AZ Secretary of State as the person responsible for her complete lack of competency.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
39. Come on Jillian
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:15 PM
Mar 2016

Do you really think the DNC was powerless to prevent 70% of the Arizona polling locations from 2012 to be shut down this year? Have you seen any complaints from Hillary's camp on this? Is the mainstream media (that is in the tank for Hillary) talking about the disgrace to democracy that took place in Arizona yesterday?

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
70. Did the DNC or Hillary try to do anything about it?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:33 PM
Mar 2016

My guess is that they will try to do something about it starting in June or July.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
95. What do you think they should have done?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:55 PM
Mar 2016

Suggestions, since you know so much about all of this

The voter suppression schemes are GOP/Koch/ALEC driven. If an Kochs or one of their surrogates owns your Governor and statehouse, there is little anyone can do, short term. The only remedy is through the courts, and that can take time. THAT is why I did a happy dance when I saw that Scalia was dead. Because it PROFOUNDLY changes the dynamic on cases like these. But it takes time for the changes and the GOP will fight like hell to derail what ever they can. Expect the DIRTIEST of dirty tricks from them this year. Gonna make FL 2000 look like a game of CandyLand.

blm

(112,920 posts)
79. In the month you've been here, it APPEARS you WANT to see GOP crimes shifted to Dems
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:49 PM
Mar 2016

even when no Dem is in charge of the state and county offices where the decisions were made that actually caused the suppression.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
43. Right. . . I have criticized her and her campaign, but all we KNOW is that there was a mess
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:17 PM
Mar 2016

We don't know why, or who. . ..
Something happened with their voting. . . let's wait and see what it was.
I mean, it IS a Republican state, and it is Republican party values to disenfranchise Democratic voters. Probably just GOP business as usual.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
47. I don't blame Hillary
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:20 PM
Mar 2016

Republicans are in control in Arizona and they frequently pull this kind of crap.

That said, it is disheartening to see some Clinton supporters shrug it off and accuse us of crying foul instead of joining with us to fight it.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
49. Has the DNC done anything before, during, or after the fiasco?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:20 PM
Mar 2016

Been dead silence from them. Kind of looks like they approve of voter disenfranchisement as long as it helps their candidate.

BernieforPres2016

(3,017 posts)
68. Exactly right, Hillary and the DNC benefit from voter suppression in Arizona
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:30 PM
Mar 2016

They will make sure to address any issues before the general election. The fact they're saying nothing about what happened in Arizona yesterday speaks volumes. Does anybody really think a DNC that has put this Superdelegate structure in place and cut the number of debates dramatically and scheduled them to get the lowest possible viewership has been pushing for high voter turnouts during the primaries, when they know high voter turnout favors Bernie?

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
98. Nope.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:58 PM
Mar 2016

But it kind of looks like you don't understand how politics works. At all. And prove that this helped either candidate. What I am hearing, everyone got screwed.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
54. Our system is corrupt, top to bottom, side to side...
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:25 PM
Mar 2016

Neither party wants verifiable voting or true democracy - for a reason.

We are crazy to trust this system at any level.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
117. Wrong!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:49 PM
Mar 2016

Dems want democracy with more voter participation because more voter participation helps them and hurts the GOP. The GOP has maxed out their potential voter pool. All they have left his money and dirty tricks. Dems, on the other hand, have a deep pool of potential but untapped voters. We LIKE more voters because MATH!

This is not a hard thing to understand. You can be mad at the Democratic Party for all sorts of reasons, but this is not one of them.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
120. OK, then show some proof.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 05:56 PM
Mar 2016

So far all you have is empty rhetoric. As I already posted, "corporate" Dems, whatever that means, have many untapped votes if they do the GOTV. So they benefit from better, more open voting laws and higher turnout.

All Dems benefit from more voters and less corporate money in politics. Once we gain control of the Supreme Court, we can limit the corporate money which hurts the GOP the most. It will be great!

polichick

(37,152 posts)
121. If you think HRC is all about everyone voting this primary season...
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 05:59 PM
Mar 2016

I have some oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
122. Proof.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:03 PM
Mar 2016

As in facts. A link maybe? Otherwise you got nothing but empty rhetoric and an overused metaphor.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
124. My own experience as a party activist for 40+ years is all the proof I need...
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:14 PM
Mar 2016

You can keep pretending that all Dems want true democracy but when the party had the WH and Congress they did nothing to make sure we had verifiable elections, or that we moved closer to a practicing democracy in any way. This faulty system works for the powers that be precisely because it is not verifiable at any level.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
125. You are confused.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:49 PM
Mar 2016

That is not proof, that is an opinion. Can you site some actual facts that support your opinion?

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
132. I know how it works.
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 09:40 AM
Mar 2016

The person who makes an accusation ALSO has to provide documentation that supports their argument. Otherwise they are just spreading lies and innuendo. Just because you repeat a thing over and over does not make it true.

YOU made the accusation, therefor YOU provide the facts to back them up. Which you can't do, so now you are trying to muddy the water to camouflage your own failure.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
135. I stand by my original statement that you deemed "wrong"...
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 12:50 PM
Mar 2016

Our system is corrupt, top to bottom, side to side...

Neither party wants verifiable voting or true democracy - for a reason.

We are crazy to trust this system at any level.


No documentation needed - just experience, awareness and brains.
Put your thinking cap on.

 

RepubliCON-Watch

(559 posts)
55. This was not a Hillary v. Bernie Issue.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:25 PM
Mar 2016

This was a systematic rigging at all accounts. This has to be thrown out in fairness to Hillary and Bernie voters.

Kip Humphrey

(4,753 posts)
58. Except for the impossible discrepancies between exit polling and official results, I agree.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:27 PM
Mar 2016

Different issues require different actions.

JSup

(740 posts)
63. I'm one Hillary supporter...
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:29 PM
Mar 2016

...that does not approve of this just because she won.

I don't like caucuses (even in Iowa and Nevada) and I don't like Republicans shutting down voting stations and generally fucking up the votes and changing what parties people are registered with.

Last night was an embarrassment to our nation in front of the 'Free World'.

PotatoChip

(3,186 posts)
67. You ought to check out this video.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:30 PM
Mar 2016

Prior to seeing it, I would have agreed with you. But I learned a few things in the video that, if true, really need more scrutiny from some kind of neutral person/entity.

 

AzDar

(14,023 posts)
71. When you have the Dem National Party seemingly discouraging voter turnout to ensure their chosen
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:33 PM
Mar 2016

Candidate benefits ...that's hard to swallow.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,911 posts)
80. I don't blame Hillary. I urge her to use her voice to help condemn it.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:49 PM
Mar 2016

I would respect her a lot for doing so emphatically. She didn't cause it, but she did benefit from it. From what I have seen she did a lot worse on election day than she did in early voting. The less voters counted voting on election day - the greater her margin of victory. It will not be self serving for her to speak up strongly, but it would be the right thing for her to do.

Gothmog

(144,005 posts)
81. The long lines in Arizona were due to the gutting of Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:50 PM
Mar 2016

The long lines here are in part due to the gutting of the Voting Rights Act by the SCOTUS which Clinton wants to restore http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2016/03/22/long-lines-bog-down-arizona-presidential-primary/

Long lines were expected all day at polling places, Maricopa County Elections Department spokeswoman Elizabeth Bartholomew said.

Lines snaked up to almost every one of the 60 polling sites across the county, with the exception of remote locations such as Gila Bend or Wickenburg. The county cut the number of polling sites for this year’s presidential primary from 200 in 2012 mainly as a money-saving measure.

In addition, the majority of voters get mail-in ballots, and independents who can’t vote make up more than a third of the electorate.
“All we can do is thank them for their patience,” Bartholomew said of voters enduring the delays.
read more: http://azcapitoltimes.com/news/2016/03/22/long-lines-bog-down-arizona-presidential-primary/#ixzz43kC9reof

Prior to the gutting of the voting rights act by the SCOTUS Arizona was a covered jurisdiction and the Federal govt. would get to approve the cuts in the number of voting locations

Evan WylogeVerified account
?@EvanWyloge
I wonder if the number of polling places we have in Maricopa County today would have been OK’d under VRA Sect.5. Good thing that’s gone.

We need to restore the Voting Rights Act to keep these type of voter suppression tactics from being used. If Arizona was still a covered jurisdiction under the Voting Rights Act, there would have been no cuts in voting locations.

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
110. And we are seeing why.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:49 PM
Mar 2016

One thing that has been proven over the past few years, Voting Rights is STILL very relevant, and the decision to gut section 5 was a bad as Citizen's Untied ruling for our democracy.

Off hand, do you know why AZ was included? I don't know much about the state's history. But they managed to get the entire state coved under section 5, so the history must be egregious. I can go look it up myself if it is too much trouble to post. I guess I have tunnel vision, being in NC. I get hyper focused on our particular issues. Always better to see the big picture.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
83. I blame the Third Way DINO legislators who have not protected our interests
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:03 PM
Mar 2016

for the past 4 decades.

Look at where we are now, because of them. They sold us out.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
99. Don't kid yourselves, it's BOTH parties. Those in control
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:59 PM
Mar 2016

in either party, as well as the MSM, all serve the same masters.

Bad Thoughts

(2,514 posts)
100. This system hursts all Dems, Clinton included
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:02 PM
Mar 2016

Even those who went to the polls to vote against Clinton could be valuable resources in the Fall. Voting Democrat creates an identification between the voter and the party that our nominee must be able to exploit.

 

ViseGrip

(3,133 posts)
101. The repubs in charge in AZ closed all the polling places. But where were the dems?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:16 PM
Mar 2016

Why did they not object? And, where are they today? Why are you only talking about this? It very well IS going to happen in the general election. You got that right! In AZ and FL.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
107. Is the Hillary campaign screaming to the rooftops
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:08 PM
Mar 2016

About the voting fiasco in Arizona? Nope...they're touting her "victory"...

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
109. Exactly!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:45 PM
Mar 2016

I keep pointing that out, and I keep being told that I'm a sore loser. If Hillary's supporters don't think these kinds of voter suppression tactics will cause problems for the Democratic nominee in November, I've got a bridge to nowhere in Alaska to sell them.

 

AtomicKitten

(46,585 posts)
116. No blaming per se. The complaint is that they are willing to turn a blind eye when it benefits them.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:43 PM
Mar 2016

bullwinkle428

(20,627 posts)
129. Exactly - there was plenty of chortling from a few of the Hillary supporters that the complaints
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 09:36 PM
Mar 2016

about the voting irregularities were nothing more than sour grapes from a bunch of "cry-baby BernieBros". Quite honestly, people that I had lots of respect for over the course of years of being a part of DU.

PufPuf23

(8,689 posts)
123. I agree that the GOP is behind actual election shenanigans
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:12 PM
Mar 2016

and that the GOP has skills in this regard not achieved nor used by the Democratic Party.

However, Hillary Clinton has been benefitting from GOP actions.

The GOP establishment (non Trump) wants Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic POTUS nominee because she will be easiest to beat and because she is the Democratic candidate that is most like the GOP in economic and military matters.

eridani

(51,907 posts)
130. I remember back in 2004 when election fraud was a very serious subject here
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 05:38 AM
Mar 2016

Too bad our party higher-ups didn't pay more attention. (RIP Andy--still miss you.)

wildeyed

(11,240 posts)
134. It is still a serious issue.
Thu Mar 24, 2016, 10:10 AM
Mar 2016

But now the GOP is much better at camouflaging their efforts through gerrymandering and voter ID laws.

My understanding, laws requiring non-partisan districting committees can be proposed as a ballot issue by regular citizens and c3 issue groups. That makes a total end run around BOTH parties by taking the issue directly to the voters. Not sure why people here would rather piss and moan about how the DNC fails when they don't even need them to fix the problem.

I guess because doing a ballot issue involves actual work, whereas bitching about other people's work is easy

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