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DanTex

(20,709 posts)
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:18 AM Mar 2016

So let's suppose there was a ballot initiative that read...

"All undocumented immigrants deported. No Muslims allowed to enter the country. Assassinate the children of suspected terrorists. Roe v Wade overturned. Freedom of the press curtailed. Massive tax cuts for the wealthy."

Would anyone in their right mind do anything other than vote "no"? Would we be hearing supposed progressives insisting that their "consciences" won't let them vote "no" because "they don't vote out of fear"? Would there be any moral justification forever for not voting on this initiative?

Of course not. And failing to vote Dem in the general election is the same thing. Those are the things that will happen, and more, if Trump wins. Even if you thought that Hillary was going to keep the "status quo", and all her talk about minimum wage and union rights and everything is just rhetoric, you're still faced with the equivalent of the ballot initiative described above.

81 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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So let's suppose there was a ballot initiative that read... (Original Post) DanTex Mar 2016 OP
That is Trump's platform Gothmog Mar 2016 #1
Holy fearmongering, Batman! astrophuss42 Mar 2016 #2
I fear things that deserve being feared, like Trump. I don't buy into Bernie's phony fearmongering DanTex Mar 2016 #6
if you're not afraid of a President Trump, you're not paying attention nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #7
Where is the mongering part? Do you believe President Trump does not represent those things? Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #28
Nice to see that not only republicans.... daleanime Mar 2016 #3
Bernie's the champion of fearmongering. TPP is gonna get you! Billionaires are gonna get you! DanTex Mar 2016 #4
No We Can't and I'ts Too Tough = Optimism SheenaR Mar 2016 #13
...... daleanime Mar 2016 #17
Dude, the billionaires already got us. dinkytron Mar 2016 #21
The future TPP already got you? DanTex Mar 2016 #25
no, that's not fear, that's accurately describing who will be our head of state geek tragedy Mar 2016 #5
Which is what you'll get if you don't support Hillary..... daleanime Mar 2016 #15
No, reality. Fearmongering is when Bernie people talk about Clinton wanting to geek tragedy Mar 2016 #22
Cut and pasted from another thread by you SheenaR Mar 2016 #8
So you're scared of the TPP but you're not scared of Trump. DanTex Mar 2016 #9
Deflection SheenaR Mar 2016 #11
It's great that you are not an undocumented immigrant. It's unfortunate that you don't seem to care DanTex Mar 2016 #14
It's great that you don't care about the people I mentioned in my last response SheenaR Mar 2016 #20
Nobody save a few very rich people would be better off with Trump. DanTex Mar 2016 #23
is Trump a NEVER in your book as well, or is he the lesser of two evils in your opinion? nt geek tragedy Mar 2016 #24
I have never once said I would vote for him SheenaR Mar 2016 #29
You haven't said you wouldn't vote for him either. The only person you're ruling out is geek tragedy Mar 2016 #32
^THIS ^ Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #19
Suppose the sky wasn't blue. Half-Century Man Mar 2016 #10
Um, children of suspected terrorists are being assassinated BY a Dem. cherokeeprogressive Mar 2016 #12
The loyalty oath is here! Get today's edition! Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #16
Ahh, the luxury of being able to ignore the consequences of one's actions. DanTex Mar 2016 #18
Ignoring the consequences of one's actions: that's what Clinton tries to do. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #27
She is far better than Trump. There are two choices in Nov: D or R. DanTex Mar 2016 #30
If that is what you were trying to do, I suggest you phrase your replies a bit clearer, Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #33
Clinton is almost sure to be the nominee, and a lot of people are talking about sitting out the DanTex Mar 2016 #34
Gee, why would that be? Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #36
Because they are privileged faux progressives who aren't going to suffer particularly from DanTex Mar 2016 #38
They are so progressive that they don't want to entertain the thought of Clinton winning. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #39
Yes, they have the privilege of not having to even contemplate reality. DanTex Mar 2016 #40
The reality is that the status quo is untenable, which renders Clinton's platform detached Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #41
If you don't think things can be worse then they are now, that's also a big bubble of privilege. DanTex Mar 2016 #42
Stop calling me priviledged. I'm gay and on a low income. I owe Clinton no gratitude at all. Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #43
Privilege: "I don't to choose between things getting much worse and things getting worse." DanTex Mar 2016 #45
Outrageous claim against me. Methinks thou projects too much. eom Betty Karlson Mar 2016 #46
Reminds me of "not a dimes worth of difference" redstateblues Mar 2016 #59
Loyalty oath goes into June 7, or when Sanders suspends his campaign, whichever geek tragedy Mar 2016 #26
There will be a new president next January XRubicon Mar 2016 #35
Yeah I noticed that Bjornsdotter Mar 2016 #77
Just a thought, but if I had the opportunity to go back in time and vote against Jackie Wilson Said Mar 2016 #31
I voted agaist Reagan twice and yet now I am in a thread sort of demanding that I vote for a Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #56
I don't understand the contempt for fear by some. Starry Messenger Mar 2016 #37
This message was self-deleted by its author PoliticalPothead Mar 2016 #44
I implore everyone who buys into this blatant fearmongering to watch this video. PoliticalPothead Mar 2016 #47
Two questions. Are there any undocumented immigrants in your family? DanTex Mar 2016 #48
Yes, my uncle is an undocumented immigrant. PoliticalPothead Mar 2016 #51
Interesting. So you actually think that Hillary will round up all 12 million undocumented immigrants DanTex Mar 2016 #53
That's not what was said to you. You challenged everyone as if you spoke for these immigrants and Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #58
I'm not talking about the primary. Vote however you want in the primary. DanTex Mar 2016 #66
No, I don't think Hillary will round up 12 million undocumented immigrants. PoliticalPothead Mar 2016 #60
So Trump is bluffing, huh. Somehow he hasn't actually convinced you that he's racist. DanTex Mar 2016 #62
He's not bluffing, he's pandering. PoliticalPothead Mar 2016 #64
Well, I'm glad that Trump has convinced you he's a sane and reasonable man who actually DanTex Mar 2016 #70
Trump hasn't convinced me of anything. PoliticalPothead Mar 2016 #72
If honestly don't think Trump will be worse than Hillary, then I can see why you don't mind him DanTex Mar 2016 #73
Trump will certainly be worse than Hillary on many issues. PoliticalPothead Mar 2016 #74
You think Trump is better than H on foreign policy. Wow. OK then. Nuff said. DanTex Mar 2016 #75
He might be. PoliticalPothead Mar 2016 #78
That's not what the poster said to you. You asked for family testimony, you got it then you mock it. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #65
I didn't mock family testimony? What are you talking about. DanTex Mar 2016 #68
I am voting no to all of the above. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #49
There are only two choices in the general: D or R. Everything else is equivalent to a non-vote DanTex Mar 2016 #50
Is Jill Stein the same as Trump on those issues? Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #54
Jill Stein is a wasted vote. She can't possibly win. Might as well write in your own name. DanTex Mar 2016 #57
"Well to do" Like Hillary and Bill? Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #79
Well to do like Bernie Sanders. DanTex Mar 2016 #80
I'm a hell of a lot closer to Bernie's net worth than Hillary's. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2016 #81
This is General Discussion: Primaries. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #63
See my other post. Bernie or Bust discussions belong here. DanTex Mar 2016 #67
I'll vote Democratic. I'll vote for Bernie Sanders. k8conant Mar 2016 #52
You get what you vote FOR Newkularblue Mar 2016 #55
K & R. Thanks for posting. Surya Gayatri Mar 2016 #61
You don't need us, remember? Waiting For Everyman Mar 2016 #69
Not in the primary. In the GD, all Dems and progressives need to unite to defeat Trump. DanTex Mar 2016 #71
Good luck with convincing Independents to vote for Hillary Kalidurga Mar 2016 #76

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
6. I fear things that deserve being feared, like Trump. I don't buy into Bernie's phony fearmongering
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:23 AM
Mar 2016

about TPP and "oligarchs".

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
4. Bernie's the champion of fearmongering. TPP is gonna get you! Billionaires are gonna get you!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:22 AM
Mar 2016

One reason Hillary is trouncing him is that she has an optimistic message.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
13. No We Can't and I'ts Too Tough = Optimism
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:37 AM
Mar 2016

Wow...First you use fear, then you use misinformation. I can't wait to see how this goes for the next 7 months.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
5. no, that's not fear, that's accurately describing who will be our head of state
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:23 AM
Mar 2016

if Clinton doesn't win.

Elections have consequences.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
22. No, reality. Fearmongering is when Bernie people talk about Clinton wanting to
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:46 AM
Mar 2016

privatize social security or start multiple wars.

Pointing out the explicit policy positions adopted by Trump is called contrasting and educating the voters.

If you are not afraid of the prospect of "President Trump" being in charge of the military and the CIA and the NSA and the EPA and filling every single judicial vacancy in the federal courts--then you do not have very progressive views.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
8. Cut and pasted from another thread by you
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:29 AM
Mar 2016

Apples and oranges...

You and your cronies are going to try and pull this shit for seven months. Scare or guilt us into voting for her.

We will get what we deserve for not embracing real actual change and a true liberal, progressive agenda.

I speak for myself only. She DOES NOT stand for the issues most important to me. She has been wrong time and again on the issues that are important to me. She is incapable of being believed. I'm not buying what she is selling because it has been proven time and again she will say ANYTHING to anyone to get her elected.

This is how bad of a GE candidate that she is. That you have to SCARE other Democrats into voting for her.

If she was worth a damn as a candidate, this primary would be over and the GE would be in the bag.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
11. Deflection
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:35 AM
Mar 2016

There are an abundance of issues that I disagree with her on. Your characterization is inaccurate.

I do not want President Trump nor do I want President Clinton.

We can go on all day if you want. I won't budge an inch

You can come here and torture me if you want. She is a bad person who has done many bad things. She has harmed many people in her and her husband's quest for power. She has silenced victims of sexual assault. She has silenced members of the LGBT community.

She is a NEVER in my book

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
14. It's great that you are not an undocumented immigrant. It's unfortunate that you don't seem to care
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:40 AM
Mar 2016

much about those who are. Because if you did, you wouldn't be sitting idly while Trump rounds them up.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
20. It's great that you don't care about the people I mentioned in my last response
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:45 AM
Mar 2016

No voter can be all things at all times. It's great that I am not someone in the Midwest also who lost their job because of trade policies that Clinton supported and championed. Works both ways.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
23. Nobody save a few very rich people would be better off with Trump.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:46 AM
Mar 2016

If that's you care about, then by all means, vote Trump or third party.

Otherwise, be thankful that you're not undocumented and that you don't rely on Obamacare for healthcare, which gives you the luxury of sitting out the election without suffering any of the consequences.

SheenaR

(2,052 posts)
29. I have never once said I would vote for him
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:49 AM
Mar 2016

We have two truly awful major party GE candidates. What the Dems should really fear is him not getting the first ballot nom, and them throwing a Kasich up on the 2nd ballot to win the nomination.

Then we are truly screwed because he actually knows what he is doing.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
32. You haven't said you wouldn't vote for him either. The only person you're ruling out is
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:51 AM
Mar 2016

the likely Democratic nominee.

So I will ask again:

Is Trump a NEVER for you?

Is Kasich a NEVER for you?

Is Ted Cruz a NEVER for you?

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
10. Suppose the sky wasn't blue.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:33 AM
Mar 2016

Suppose seeing a duck made your ass itch.

Both of these are equally as valid as your conjectures. Let's speak of real issues, such as the continual cycle of both parties fear mongering votes from their bases.
This is a large part of the partisan gridlock that is crippling our country. There is only one way to stop it; and that is to challenge it. Call the bluff of the fear mongerers, make them bend to our will.

 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
12. Um, children of suspected terrorists are being assassinated BY a Dem.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:37 AM
Mar 2016

Or did you forget about that?

Abdulrahman Anwar al-Awlaki (also spelled al-Aulaqi; August 26, 1995[1] – October 14, 2011) was a 16 year old American citizen who was killed while eating dinner at an outdoor restaurant by an airstrike by an armed C.I.A. drone in Yemen on October 14, 2011. Abdulrahman Al-Awlaki had no connection to terrorism and was searching for his father, Anwar al-Awlaki, a dual Yemeni-American citizen who worked as Islamic Lecturer in the Arabian Peninsula. Anwar al-Awlaki was killed by an airstrike by an armed C.I.A. drone two weeks prior to the death of his son.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdulrahman_al-Awlaki

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
16. The loyalty oath is here! Get today's edition!
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:43 AM
Mar 2016

There will be a new one tomorrow. Also be afraid, be very afraid. And remember Debbie's 2014 hit single "who else are you going to vote for?"

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
18. Ahh, the luxury of being able to ignore the consequences of one's actions.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:43 AM
Mar 2016

You're not undocumented, what do you care about mass deportation, am I right? You already had health insurance before Obamacare, am I right?

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
27. Ignoring the consequences of one's actions: that's what Clinton tries to do.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:48 AM
Mar 2016

Transcripts
Honduras coup
Libya
Syria
Iraq War resolution
Sending children back into Central America
Wall Street ties
Prison Industry ties
Opposing gay marriage until it was absolutely no longer possible (while preserving electability)
Touting TPP until it was absolutely no longer possible (while preserving electability)
Alienating the entire left and the millennials in particular

But WE should be ashamed for not supporting her right now, even though Sanders can still win the nomination? How transparent are your arguments.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
30. She is far better than Trump. There are two choices in Nov: D or R.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:50 AM
Mar 2016

Support Bernie during the primary, sure, I'm talking about voting Dem in the general election. Regardless of who the nominee is.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
33. If that is what you were trying to do, I suggest you phrase your replies a bit clearer,
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:51 AM
Mar 2016

because it sounded like you tried to scare Sanders supporters into voting against their conscience, for Clinton.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
34. Clinton is almost sure to be the nominee, and a lot of people are talking about sitting out the
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:55 AM
Mar 2016

General Election or voting third party if that happens. I'm sure you've noticed, there's even a term for it: Bernie or Bust.

Bernie or Bust hasn't gained much ground in the general population, but it's big here on DU. And it's stupid. When the primaries are over, we need to come together, unite behind the nominee, and defeat Trump. That goes whether it's Bernie or Hillary.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
36. Gee, why would that be?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:58 AM
Mar 2016

Maybe because Clinton and her supporters never pass an opportunity to belittle Sanders supporters, lie about him, make outrageous statements (praise Nancy) and act as if the 20th century never ended and millennials are ill-informed children who don't know their place?

You want unity? Stop sowing division.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
38. Because they are privileged faux progressives who aren't going to suffer particularly from
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:01 PM
Mar 2016

Trump's policies, so the place their own feelings and desire for vengeance against Hillary and her supporters above the well-being of other people in the country who are not as fortunate as them.

If the were actually progressive, and believe what Bernie believes, they wouldn't even be entertaining the idea of letting Trump win.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
39. They are so progressive that they don't want to entertain the thought of Clinton winning.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:02 PM
Mar 2016

But somehow, that doesn't seem to be a ligitimate position to you. I would put that down to bias, or the inversion of Clinton derangement syndrom.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
40. Yes, they have the privilege of not having to even contemplate reality.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:05 PM
Mar 2016

They don't want to think about Clinton, and they don't want to thing about Trump. They want to live in a happy fantasyland, and let other people deal with the actual consequences of the election. Like I said, privilege. Undocumented immigrants don't get to do that.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
41. The reality is that the status quo is untenable, which renders Clinton's platform detached
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:06 PM
Mar 2016

from any and all reality.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
42. If you don't think things can be worse then they are now, that's also a big bubble of privilege.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:09 PM
Mar 2016

I would have thought that the Nader/W debacle would have gotten the silly "it can't get worse" meme out of people's minds. But, no, here it is again.

 

Betty Karlson

(7,231 posts)
43. Stop calling me priviledged. I'm gay and on a low income. I owe Clinton no gratitude at all.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:11 PM
Mar 2016

As for things getting worse: I don't to choose between things getting much worse and things getting worse.

I want to vote for things getting better, and Clinton is doing sh*t all to earn that vote.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
45. Privilege: "I don't to choose between things getting much worse and things getting worse."
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:17 PM
Mar 2016

I don't know you at all, but anyone who thinks that the difference between Trump and Hillary is irrelevant, because it's "worse" and "much worse" is a privileged person. A lot of people can't afford "much worse." You might personally be indifferent between the two, but families that will be torn apart due to mass deportation are not.

That's far from the only difference between the two, but even if Clinton and Trump were identical in all other respects, that would already be enough for any progressive to easily favor Clinton. And anyone who doesn't has no business calling themselves progressive or liberal.

 

geek tragedy

(68,868 posts)
26. Loyalty oath goes into June 7, or when Sanders suspends his campaign, whichever
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:48 AM
Mar 2016

happens sooner.

And then all of the Trump Humpers will magically disappear.

XRubicon

(2,212 posts)
35. There will be a new president next January
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:58 AM
Mar 2016

In the general I am going to vote in my self interest, I will vote and it won't be for a repub.

Bjornsdotter

(6,123 posts)
77. Yeah I noticed that
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:02 PM
Mar 2016

.....I think I'm going to need more popcorn, the show is getting good.

You will vote as we say and you will like it.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
31. Just a thought, but if I had the opportunity to go back in time and vote against
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 11:50 AM
Mar 2016

Hitler or Mussolini, for instance, or Nixon or Reagan (again), I would.

Some folks seem to not be willing to do it even without a time machine.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
56. I voted agaist Reagan twice and yet now I am in a thread sort of demanding that I vote for a
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:58 PM
Mar 2016

candidate who went on TV and told the nation Reagan was a hero for doing the very things he did not do, the very thing I spent years protesting him for not doing. So going back in time changes nothing, you are still eventually asked to endorse Ron and Nancy no matter what.

Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
37. I don't understand the contempt for fear by some.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:00 PM
Mar 2016

I have a lot of worries and that's what drives my vote. Why wouldn't I?

Response to DanTex (Original post)

PoliticalPothead

(220 posts)
47. I implore everyone who buys into this blatant fearmongering to watch this video.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:33 PM
Mar 2016


I've transcribed the part that I think is most important, it starts at about 4:20.

Its time to have a teachable moment, that you can't just go out and vote for people because they're familiar to you or because you're scared of Trump. Like, that's not - like we have to stop being so risk-averse. That's a problem. Like, sometimes you have to take a risk to teach people like "listen, if we don't do right by the African American community they're gonna go elsewhere, they're gonna leave us." So what happened by going and voting for Hillary is what they've basically said is "listen, we have this - we still have the African American community captured," which is basically what they decided. That's the reason Bill Clinton was able to do what he did in 92, is because they had decided that "listen, the black people cant go anywhere, African Americans can't go anywhere so we can really disidentify with them and push and use them or whatever because they have nowhere to go." And so at some point you have to show them we have somewhere to go, and we really did have somewhere to go this time, we had somewhere to pivot and we didn't do it because of fear and familiarity. And I think that is gonna come back to bite us for the next...oh my god, for the - it doesn't mater who gets elected, we're gonna get bitten. It doesn't matter if Hillary gets elected we're gonna get it. If Trump gets elected we're probably gonna get it. So either way we're probably gonna get it, and I think we've earned it.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
48. Two questions. Are there any undocumented immigrants in your family?
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:36 PM
Mar 2016

If the answer is no: if there were, and it was your family that Trump wanted to tear apart, do you think you'd feel differently about "Bernie or Bust"?

PoliticalPothead

(220 posts)
51. Yes, my uncle is an undocumented immigrant.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:44 PM
Mar 2016

And he was deported while Obama was in office, so I have no faith that Hillary (who is further to the right than Obama) will be any better than Trump when it comes to undocumented immigrants.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
53. Interesting. So you actually think that Hillary will round up all 12 million undocumented immigrants
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:49 PM
Mar 2016

even though she and the Democratic party have been advocating for a path to citizenship, whereas forceful deportation is the cornerstone of Trump's campaign.

You actually believe Hillary will be no better. That is staggeringly misinformed.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
58. That's not what was said to you. You challenged everyone as if you spoke for these immigrants and
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:05 PM
Mar 2016

someone said they are related to such a person and you dismissed and insulted them. Both Parties deport people who should not be, worse there are detention abuses and a long list of injustices, and sure Trump is the worst but this is a Primary and the choice is not Trump or the other, it is who will be the other. Many persons think Bernie is better than Hillary on this issue. And that is the entire subject matter of GDP, not the GE.

Our choices right now are not about Republicans, they are about Democrats. To discuss Trump, you need to be in GD.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
66. I'm not talking about the primary. Vote however you want in the primary.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:09 PM
Mar 2016

I'm talking about the general election. Skinner has already said that discussions of the GE that involve the names of current primary participants belong here, not in GD.

Anyone not voting D in the general, whether it's Bernie or Hillary, is not remotely progressive, and yes, is acting out of immense privilege.

PoliticalPothead

(220 posts)
60. No, I don't think Hillary will round up 12 million undocumented immigrants.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:05 PM
Mar 2016

I don't think Trump will either. Trump is like Hillary in that he'll say anything to get elected. I don't believe either of them will follow through on their campaign promises should they become president.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
62. So Trump is bluffing, huh. Somehow he hasn't actually convinced you that he's racist.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:06 PM
Mar 2016

Please, do tell, what wonderful immigration policies do you think Trump will have for us.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
70. Well, I'm glad that Trump has convinced you he's a sane and reasonable man who actually
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:14 PM
Mar 2016

won't do any of the things he's talking about. If you believe that, then I can see why you would vote third party in order to facilitate his presidency.

PoliticalPothead

(220 posts)
72. Trump hasn't convinced me of anything.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:24 PM
Mar 2016

I just don't take his campaign rhetoric seriously. I've been through enough elections to know that the people the candidates pander to during the campaign are usually the first to be disappointed when that candidate gets elected.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
73. If honestly don't think Trump will be worse than Hillary, then I can see why you don't mind him
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:28 PM
Mar 2016

becoming president over her. I personally think that letting a hate-fueled racist who at least seems pretty darn intent on implementing a bunch of horrific policies to be a horrible idea. But, hey, that's me. I'm a progressive.

PoliticalPothead

(220 posts)
74. Trump will certainly be worse than Hillary on many issues.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:45 PM
Mar 2016

He will also be better than Hillary on some issues (trade and foreign policy come to mind) and on some issues he will be no different. I believe immigration is one of those issues. Why would Trump want to deport undocumented immigrants when his businesses profit from undocumented labor? I don't think either Trump nor Hillary will do anything to change the status quo when it comes to immigration. They are both merely pandering to their respective bases.

PoliticalPothead

(220 posts)
78. He might be.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 02:05 PM
Mar 2016

Hillary is a warmonger who supported the Iraq war and the overthrow of Gaddafi which turned Libya from the country with the highest standard of living in Africa into a failed state. She also supports the overthrow of Bashar Assad in Syria, which Trump opposes (if his campaign rhetoric is to be believed). Hillary does have a leg up on Trump when it comes to the Iran nuclear deal though.

For the record, I wouldn't trust either of them to be CIC.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
65. That's not what the poster said to you. You asked for family testimony, you got it then you mock it.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:09 PM
Mar 2016

One assumes you have no such family nor even dear friends. And you don't really want to hear first hand stories either.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
68. I didn't mock family testimony? What are you talking about.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:12 PM
Mar 2016

I mocked the notion that Hillary would be as bad as Trump on immigration. Which is thoroughly mockworthy.

BTW, how do you feel about Bernie or Bust, given that you're entered into this discussion?

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
49. I am voting no to all of the above.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:39 PM
Mar 2016

I'm just not voting for a Republican or someone who collaborates with Republicans on those same issues.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
50. There are only two choices in the general: D or R. Everything else is equivalent to a non-vote
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:41 PM
Mar 2016

which is basically the same as refusing to vote against that ballot proposition.

And no, Hillary is not the same as Trump on any of those issues.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
57. Jill Stein is a wasted vote. She can't possibly win. Might as well write in your own name.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:00 PM
Mar 2016

Being able to afford to vote for Jill Stein is an immense privilege. It means that you are well-to-do enough that Trump's policies won't harm you, and you can vote your feelings rather than thinking about reality.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
81. I'm a hell of a lot closer to Bernie's net worth than Hillary's.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:03 PM
Mar 2016

How about you? "Dead Broke" Like the Clintons?

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
63. This is General Discussion: Primaries.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:07 PM
Mar 2016

You are trying to use the GE as a primary tool, furtively. It sucks. This OP is about Trump and belongs in GD.

We are in the middle of a Primary. Bernie routed Hillary twice last night. This is GDP.

Newkularblue

(130 posts)
55. You get what you vote FOR
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 12:57 PM
Mar 2016

You prevent what you vote AGAINST. Im personally tired of the 'prevent' defense and am willing to embrace real change.

DanTex

(20,709 posts)
71. Not in the primary. In the GD, all Dems and progressives need to unite to defeat Trump.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:19 PM
Mar 2016

This is obvious, we can't afford Trump, it would be a disaster.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
76. Good luck with convincing Independents to vote for Hillary
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 01:57 PM
Mar 2016

That argument will neither persuade them or strengthen the Democratic Party if Hillary becomes the nominee.

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