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pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:24 PM Mar 2016

If you're determined to point your finger of blame

at whoever caused the long lines in some Arizona polling places, there are two places to point:

(1) the REPUBLICANS who made the choice to cut back on polling places and (2) the people in Bernie's campaign who didn't educate their voters about the feasibility and simplicity of mail-in ballots. This is basic GOTV, people!

But Hillary is not to blame because some Bernie people say they had trouble voting. And even Debbie is not to blame. These conspiracy theories today are just nutty.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/arizona-voting-suppression/index.html

"I take full responsibility for what happened yesterday," said Maricopa County Recorder Helen Purcell Wednesday at a Maricopa County Board of Supervisors meeting.

Purcell, a Republican, initially defended the closings on Tuesday night, telling Fox 10 Phoenix voters could have voted via early ballots rather than risking waiting in line.

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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If you're determined to point your finger of blame (Original Post) pnwmom Mar 2016 OP
You are saying thee were no hillary voters in those lines? Downwinder Mar 2016 #1
No ... That's not want she is saying ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #6
Then (2) should be reworded. Downwinder Mar 2016 #10
Perhaps. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #12
Where are the complaints from Hillary voters about facing long lines? pnwmom Mar 2016 #18
It's not just long lines. It's vote flipping. Voter party flipping, it's saying to go home bkkyosemite Mar 2016 #2
Vote flipping? I hadn't seen that ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #9
I think the poster meant party flipping not vote flipping. Watch this video NWCorona Mar 2016 #22
How would Hillary be to blame for any of this? If there was any screw-up, it was pnwmom Mar 2016 #19
You are willing to disenfranchise the Sanders voters but, Downwinder Mar 2016 #29
No, I'm just saying it's nuts to blame Hillary or Debbie. The GOP pnwmom Mar 2016 #32
If the Party does not support the voters, Downwinder Mar 2016 #34
so then, you also, are repulsed by what happened yesterday, right. Hiraeth Mar 2016 #3
I wouldn't place (much) blame of the Sander's campaign ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2016 #4
What's the Hillary campaign saying about this fiasco? ibegurpard Mar 2016 #5
Oh good. She "took responsibility." Now will she enable "late voting"... pat_k Mar 2016 #7
Are you actually expecting a Republican to make a beneficial change without a court order? LonePirate Mar 2016 #11
No, as I said, I "suspect" it would take a court order. pat_k Mar 2016 #14
Blaming the victims for not mailing in their ballots and waiting until election day to vote. arcane1 Mar 2016 #8
#1 - Yes. #2 - Thats ridiculous, there were likely many Clinton voters who were disenfranchised. phleshdef Mar 2016 #13
Going with #2 admits that the disenfranchised Downwinder Mar 2016 #15
I haven't heard any Hillary voters complain about not being able to vote, pnwmom Mar 2016 #25
Hillary had a very effective GOTV campaign. Her voters participated in pnwmom Mar 2016 #20
That doesn't mean her supporters weren't disenfranchised as much as... phleshdef Mar 2016 #28
1) Republicans did it. 2) Democrats (including the people on the tickets) HAVE TO FIGHT TO FIX IT. IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #16
We absolutely do need to fix any problems before the general. pnwmom Mar 2016 #21
I have now seen multiple YouTube videos from pissed off voters IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #23
Well, they should be pissed off if that happened. But they shouldn't be blaming pnwmom Mar 2016 #24
I am going to be ANGRY at Either Or Both of them *IF* they DON'T IdaBriggs Mar 2016 #27
I feel badly for the voters of Arizona. Bluenorthwest Mar 2016 #17
My comment does not directly address Arizona or voter supression PufPuf23 Mar 2016 #26
No, they don't. They wouldn't be running attack ads against her in the primaries pnwmom Mar 2016 #33
The SCOTUS for gutting the voting rights act gollygee Mar 2016 #30
SCOTUS G_j Mar 2016 #31
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
6. No ... That's not want she is saying ...
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:37 PM
Mar 2016

primarily, I suspect, because it is not HRC voters trying to place the blame of the voting fiasco on another Democratic candidate or the DNC.

bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
2. It's not just long lines. It's vote flipping. Voter party flipping, it's saying to go home
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:31 PM
Mar 2016

since Hillary won with thousands still in line, it's saying you're not on the roll even though you show your card stating that you are a dem. many more like that. It is a LOT of different things that show that AZ was rigged.

NWCorona

(8,541 posts)
22. I think the poster meant party flipping not vote flipping. Watch this video
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:55 PM
Mar 2016

Okay Everyone! I posted earlier about my being denied my legal right to vote this morning. I went to the Pima County Recorders office and video taped the whole thing. Here's what they are doing. They are copying voter registration cards changing the date and the party preference. They can't change the original because that goes out to the party. At first she tried to say I sent in a second voter registration card (of course I didn't not) then she changes her story to its a computer glitch then states it's an error

https://vid.me/KKWP
Open discussion
So will this lady's vote count? It seems like she did everything right.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
19. How would Hillary be to blame for any of this? If there was any screw-up, it was
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:49 PM
Mar 2016

caused by the Rethugs in charge of the elections.

And by any Democratic campaign that didn't encourage its voters to use mail-in ballots.

Downwinder

(12,869 posts)
29. You are willing to disenfranchise the Sanders voters but,
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:36 PM
Mar 2016

Hey, come vote for us in November. Then you wonder why the Democratic Party is losing out in red states.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
32. No, I'm just saying it's nuts to blame Hillary or Debbie. The GOP
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:52 PM
Mar 2016

is in charge of voting in AZ and AZ voters need to hold them accountable.

And Democrats need to learn how to use mail-in ballots.

Downwinder

(12,869 posts)
34. If the Party does not support the voters,
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 07:13 PM
Mar 2016

the voters are not going to support the Party. In which case the Party may well become a third party or less.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
4. I wouldn't place (much) blame of the Sander's campaign ...
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:35 PM
Mar 2016

for not emphasizing the feasibility and simplicity of mail-in ballots. Though, it is basic GOTV that is (should have been) touched on in phone-banking and door knocking.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
7. Oh good. She "took responsibility." Now will she enable "late voting"...
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:37 PM
Mar 2016

...to remedy?

I'm guessing it would take a court order.

So much for responsibility.

pat_k

(9,313 posts)
14. No, as I said, I "suspect" it would take a court order.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:51 PM
Mar 2016

In using the word "suspect," I guess I was attempting to give her a little benefit of the doubt. A doubt I don't actually have.

 

phleshdef

(11,936 posts)
13. #1 - Yes. #2 - Thats ridiculous, there were likely many Clinton voters who were disenfranchised.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:46 PM
Mar 2016

If you are going to try and go with #2, you have to blame both campaigns, not just Bernie's. In reality, neither campaign is to blame.

Downwinder

(12,869 posts)
15. Going with #2 admits that the disenfranchised
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:53 PM
Mar 2016

were all Bernie voters. Brings the entire process into question.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
25. I haven't heard any Hillary voters complain about not being able to vote,
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 05:48 PM
Mar 2016

probably because the campaign informed its voters about the convenience of mail in ballots.

We have them in WA and we get calls from all the campaigns to make sure we send them in. Apparently Bernie's people didn't do this.

They should get their act together in the future. GOTV is more important than flooding a state with TV ads that no one watches.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
20. Hillary had a very effective GOTV campaign. Her voters participated in
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:51 PM
Mar 2016

mail-in balloting in very high numbers.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
16. 1) Republicans did it. 2) Democrats (including the people on the tickets) HAVE TO FIGHT TO FIX IT.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:58 PM
Mar 2016

If Hillary AND BERNIE choose to do nothing, they are ENABLING THE PROBLEM, which makes them PART OF THE PROBLEM.

The General Election is coming up - do you really think these voter suppression tactics are going to be fixed PRIOR to then without strong arming the guilty folks into decent behavior?

The "accidental" flip of voter registrations tells me there is fraud in the plans. It isn't conspiracy; it's math.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
21. We absolutely do need to fix any problems before the general.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 04:54 PM
Mar 2016

What I'm objecting to are all the conspiracy theorists who are blaming Debbie and Hillary for local AZ problems.

And I disagree that mail-in ballots constitute voter suppression.

What I read that made the most sense is that voters who changed their registration -- to indicate a change of address, for example -- often failed to check a box for party. Even if they'd checked one in the past. And if no box was checked, the registration defaulted to Independent.

Everyone everywhere would be well advised to check their registration before the General to make sure there won't be any problem with voting.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
23. I have now seen multiple YouTube videos from pissed off voters
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 05:07 PM
Mar 2016

Who were able to SHOW their registration cards but had screens say differently.

Let's assume 10% of the time voters made an "oops" - the numbers I am seeing are 2/3 of the voters were showing the wrong registration.

Two out of three people who were Registered Democrats COULD NOT VOTE IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

And that is a separate issue from long lines, cutting polling places from 200 to 60 and the other shenanigans.

What I learned from my New Hampshire experience is this: the ONLY PEOPLE with standings to fight this are those PERSONALLY affected - in other words, the voters and the candidates.

The voters rarely have the money to pay for attorneys, but the candidates have collected millions AND have attorneys familiar with election laws on staff.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
24. Well, they should be pissed off if that happened. But they shouldn't be blaming
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 05:44 PM
Mar 2016

Hillary or Debbie.

It could have happened to Hillary's supporters, too, if they didn't vote by mail.

And this should be investigated and fixed well before the election. But don't blame the wrong people. This wasn't a Republican conspiracy to help Hillary!

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
27. I am going to be ANGRY at Either Or Both of them *IF* they DON'T
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 05:54 PM
Mar 2016

FIGHT TO GET IT FIXED as per my earlier post. Our candidates are supposed to be LEADERS and they have the resources to address this.

I hope that makes sense to you.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
17. I feel badly for the voters of Arizona.
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 03:59 PM
Mar 2016

And for those in most other 'line up at a specific place to video vote' States.

PufPuf23

(8,689 posts)
26. My comment does not directly address Arizona or voter supression
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 05:51 PM
Mar 2016

but I think that the GOP establishment (not Trump) wants Hillary Clinton to be the Democratic POTUS nominee.

The GOP's track record in manipulating elections seems to be standard practice.

We already know that the Democratic establishment favors and favored Hillary Clinton.

One easy way to answer the question as to whether there has been biased manipulation of elections is if the questioned elections all break the one way.

pnwmom

(108,925 posts)
33. No, they don't. They wouldn't be running attack ads against her in the primaries
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:54 PM
Mar 2016

if they wanted her to be the nominee.

G_j

(40,366 posts)
31. SCOTUS
Wed Mar 23, 2016, 06:39 PM
Mar 2016

The Supreme Court gutted the VRA in 2013, Thus, Arizona was able to make election changes without federal oversight.

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