2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumFinally the NY Times tells the truth that Trump is a pathological liar
Over all, the latest CBS News poll finds the public similarly repulsed by each candidate: 34 percent of registered voters say Clinton is honest and trustworthy compared with 36 percent for Trump.
Yet the idea that they are even in the same league is preposterous. If deception were a sport, Trump would be the Olympic gold medalist; Clinton would be an honorable mention at her local Y. ...
...One metric comes from independent fact-checking websites. As of Friday, PolitiFact had found 27 percent of Clintons statements that it had looked into were mostly false or worse, compared with 70 percent of Trumps. It said 2 percent of Clintons statements it had reviewed were egregious pants on fire lies, compared with 19 percent of Trumps. So Trump has nine times the share of flat-out lies as Clinton.
Likewise, The Washington Post Fact-Checker has awarded its worst ranking, Four Pinocchios, to 16 percent of Clintons statements that it checked and to 64 percent of Trumps.
Essentially, Clinton is in the norm for a typical politician, says Glenn Kessler, who runs Fact-Checker, while Trump is just off the charts. Theres never been anyone like him, at least in the six years I have been doing this.
When I speak with Trump voters, they often argue that Clinton is an inveterate liar and crook, yet when pressed they draw from the same handful of examples.
One is Clintons 2008 claim that she landed in Bosnia in 1996 under sniper fire and ran with our heads down from the plane. The Washington Post dismantled that claim; video shows that Clinton was greeted not by gunshots but by a crowd of dignitaries that included an 8-year-old Bosnian girl.
But its also true that as the plane prepared to descend, security officials gave a spine-chilling briefing of the risks of sniper fire, and Clinton wore body armor in case of shooting. ...
...The man lies all the time, says Thomas M. Wells, his former lawyer. Wells recalls being curious that newspaper accounts varied as to the number of rooms in Trumps apartment in Trump Tower eight, 16, 20 or 30. So Wells asked him how many rooms were actually in the apartment. However many they will print, Trump responded.
Tony Schwartz, the co-writer of his book The Art of the Deal, told Jane Mayer of The New Yorker, Lying is second nature to him.
In short, Clinton is about average for a politician in dissembling, while Trump is a world champion who is pathological in his dishonesty. Honestly, there is no comparison.
riversedge
(70,197 posts)lapucelle
(18,252 posts)might actually affect future coverage. Kristof is a very important man in the the tribal village of journalism; he is a Very Important Man and other journalists take their lead from him.
But old habits die hard; Kristof can't resist saying this: "she continues to mislead by claiming that the F.B.I. director, James Comey, judged her answers truthful (he didnt)." Say what?
Several commenters take Kristof to task because Comey did say her FBI answers were truthful and that he had no basis on which to judge her answers to Congress.
Kristof also provided some context for the Hillary "landing under sniper fire story" that I don't recall the press ever mentioning before. Apparently Hillary and the others in her group were given a briefing about sniper fire and Clinton was given body armor to wear.
Gee, I wonder why I had never heard that part of the story before?
erronis
(15,241 posts)Than the political class they are supposed to be investigating. Yeah - investigating while sharing cock tails.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)of lies.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,999 posts)erronis
(15,241 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(48,999 posts)Politifact is the root reference for the New York Times article in the OP.
I even put Politifact in the post title (on edit after I posted, before you posted).
I'm not sure why this needed to be explained.
66 dmhlt
(1,941 posts)I think THIS is what you're looking for:
http://mannmetrics.com/who-lies-more/
Along w/ some background & analysis of the methodology"
https://datavizblog.com/2016/07/26/politifacts-methodology-who-lies-more-a-comparison-robert-mann/
https://datavizblog.com/2016/07/24/political-dataviz-who-lies-more-a-comparison-robert-mann/
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,999 posts)erronis
(15,241 posts)Bernardo - I don't believe that it would have been too difficult to reference sources in your original posting. We shouldn't still be having these discussions anymore. But also thank you for acknowledging the additional research.
dmhlt - thank you especially for doing the digging and coming up with more material. More ways for me to spend my weekend!
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,999 posts)The graphic came from a DU article, as is, with no link other than the host for the image. But of course Politifact was referenced in the text and so I went with it as is.
Bernardo de La Paz
(48,999 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/12512333744 (I think this is the one I started with)
spooky3
(34,439 posts)Average. Honestly the media are so terrified of being called biased by teabaggers, that they can't state facts and numbers.
thesquanderer
(11,986 posts)asjr
(10,479 posts)on Hillary!
many a good man
(5,997 posts)than Clinton has her entire political life.
Beartracks
(12,809 posts)I imagine it's some of both but.... Lying requires someone to know the truth, and then purposely say something else. I'm not sure Trump knows or even cares what the truth is about anything. Most of the time he seems to just make shit up.
forkol
(113 posts)That should probably read:
And with his good buddy Putin putting the needle in his behind, pumping him full of 'roids. Maybe that's where he gets his rage from?
spooky3
(34,439 posts)Stuart G
(38,420 posts)King_Klonopin
(1,306 posts)you may be struck by a pattern of lying when he doesn't even have to lie.
He just lies out of reflex, habit and a compulsion to embellish a fact which
does not need embellishment. For example:
If I were worth 1 billion dollars, I would not feel compelled to claim I was worth
4 billion dollars. However, in Donnie's insecure and vain world, he knows that if
1 billion is good, then 4 billion is better. He is compelled to paint himself in
"superlative" terms, no matter the subject, and to tear down his adversaries in
similarly extreme, negative terms.
This is a trait indicative of pathology. It is common among people with addictions,
and -- of course -- those who are exceedingly vain, and the pathological liar.
He is in the latter grouping, without a doubt.
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)reason for supporting Trump over Clinton because Trump is definitely the bigger liar.. by far.
yellowcanine
(35,699 posts)Basically brought up all of the dog whistles, "people say" etc. The Rubicon has been crossed. Trump no longer gets any benefit of the doubt. Finally.