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politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 02:04 PM Aug 2016

Finally the NY Times tells the truth that Trump is a pathological liar

ONE persistent narrative in American politics is that Hillary Clinton is a slippery, compulsive liar while Donald Trump is a gutsy truth-teller.

Over all, the latest CBS News poll finds the public similarly repulsed by each candidate: 34 percent of registered voters say Clinton is honest and trustworthy compared with 36 percent for Trump.

Yet the idea that they are even in the same league is preposterous. If deception were a sport, Trump would be the Olympic gold medalist; Clinton would be an honorable mention at her local Y. ...


...One metric comes from independent fact-checking websites. As of Friday, PolitiFact had found 27 percent of Clinton’s statements that it had looked into were mostly false or worse, compared with 70 percent of Trump’s. It said 2 percent of Clinton’s statements it had reviewed were egregious “pants on fire” lies, compared with 19 percent of Trump’s. So Trump has nine times the share of flat-out lies as Clinton.

Likewise, The Washington Post Fact-Checker has awarded its worst ranking, Four Pinocchios, to 16 percent of Clinton’s statements that it checked and to 64 percent of Trump’s.

“Essentially, Clinton is in the norm for a typical politician,” says Glenn Kessler, who runs Fact-Checker, while Trump “is just off the charts. There’s never been anyone like him, at least in the six years I have been doing this.”

When I speak with Trump voters, they often argue that Clinton is an inveterate liar and crook, yet when pressed they draw from the same handful of examples.

One is Clinton’s 2008 claim that she landed in Bosnia in 1996 “under sniper fire” and “ran with our heads down” from the plane. The Washington Post dismantled that claim; video shows that Clinton was greeted not by gunshots but by a crowd of dignitaries that included an 8-year-old Bosnian girl.

But it’s also true that as the plane prepared to descend, security officials gave a spine-chilling briefing of the risks of sniper fire, and Clinton wore body armor in case of shooting. ...


...“The man lies all the time,” says Thomas M. Wells, his former lawyer. Wells recalls being curious that newspaper accounts varied as to the number of rooms in Trump’s apartment in Trump Tower — eight, 16, 20 or 30. So Wells asked him how many rooms were actually in the apartment. “However many they will print,” Trump responded.

Tony Schwartz, the co-writer of his book “The Art of the Deal,” told Jane Mayer of The New Yorker, “Lying is second nature to him.”

In short, Clinton is about average for a politician in dissembling, while Trump is a world champion who is pathological in his dishonesty. Honestly, there is no comparison.



http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/07/opinion/sunday/clintons-fibs-vs-trumps-huge-lies.html?action=click&contentCollection=U.S.&module=Trending&version=Full®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article
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Finally the NY Times tells the truth that Trump is a pathological liar (Original Post) politicaljunkie41910 Aug 2016 OP
...“The man [TRUMP] lies all the time,” says Thomas M. Wells, his former lawyer riversedge Aug 2016 #1
The Kristof pivot away from the "Hillary lies" narrative lapucelle Aug 2016 #2
I don't put MSM opiniators such as Kristof any higher or lower erronis Aug 2016 #5
Trustworthy, hell no, he can't even have a rally without lying about something, his tweets are full Thinkingabout Aug 2016 #3
Honestly, (Politifact), ... Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #4
Nice graphic. Source? erronis Aug 2016 #6
If you read the graphic you see Politifact. If you read the link you see hosted at motherjones.com Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #7
Yours is a reasonable question. Here's the answer: 66 dmhlt Aug 2016 #10
Thanks for digging deeper than I did. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #12
Thank you both for following up. Please, always cite a linkable source for material copied. erronis Aug 2016 #13
I often save a graphic or a cartoon, and then I can search for a link based on what is in it. Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #14
Another two links for your viewing pleasure Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #15
So she's NOT "average" in lying as Kristof claimed, but BELOW spooky3 Aug 2016 #19
It is not the Times saying this, it is op-ed contributor Nicholas Kristof. (n/t) thesquanderer Aug 2016 #8
Kristof has to feel his way back to 1996 to "get" the goods asjr Aug 2016 #9
Trump lies more in one week many a good man Aug 2016 #11
Does he lie? Or just make shit up? Beartracks Aug 2016 #16
Ha! Especially liked this comparison... forkol Aug 2016 #17
Those are good nt spooky3 Aug 2016 #20
Great Post..thanks for putting it up..k and r..nt Stuart G Aug 2016 #18
If you dissect his behavior just a tad deeper, King_Klonopin Aug 2016 #21
Trump supporters are going to have to come with another Zing Zing Zingbah Aug 2016 #22
The WP front page story was brutal this morning. yellowcanine Aug 2016 #23

lapucelle

(18,252 posts)
2. The Kristof pivot away from the "Hillary lies" narrative
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 02:38 PM
Aug 2016

might actually affect future coverage. Kristof is a very important man in the the tribal village of journalism; he is a Very Important Man and other journalists take their lead from him.

But old habits die hard; Kristof can't resist saying this: "she continues to mislead by claiming that the F.B.I. director, James Comey, judged her answers truthful (he didn’t)." Say what?

Several commenters take Kristof to task because Comey did say her FBI answers were truthful and that he had no basis on which to judge her answers to Congress.

Kristof also provided some context for the Hillary "landing under sniper fire story" that I don't recall the press ever mentioning before. Apparently Hillary and the others in her group were given a briefing about sniper fire and Clinton was given body armor to wear.

Gee, I wonder why I had never heard that part of the story before?

erronis

(15,241 posts)
5. I don't put MSM opiniators such as Kristof any higher or lower
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 03:17 PM
Aug 2016

Than the political class they are supposed to be investigating. Yeah - investigating while sharing cock tails.

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,999 posts)
7. If you read the graphic you see Politifact. If you read the link you see hosted at motherjones.com
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 03:25 PM
Aug 2016

Politifact is the root reference for the New York Times article in the OP.

I even put Politifact in the post title (on edit after I posted, before you posted).

I'm not sure why this needed to be explained.

erronis

(15,241 posts)
13. Thank you both for following up. Please, always cite a linkable source for material copied.
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 05:25 PM
Aug 2016

Bernardo - I don't believe that it would have been too difficult to reference sources in your original posting. We shouldn't still be having these discussions anymore. But also thank you for acknowledging the additional research.

dmhlt - thank you especially for doing the digging and coming up with more material. More ways for me to spend my weekend!

Bernardo de La Paz

(48,999 posts)
14. I often save a graphic or a cartoon, and then I can search for a link based on what is in it.
Sun Aug 7, 2016, 06:00 PM
Aug 2016

The graphic came from a DU article, as is, with no link other than the host for the image. But of course Politifact was referenced in the text and so I went with it as is.

spooky3

(34,439 posts)
19. So she's NOT "average" in lying as Kristof claimed, but BELOW
Mon Aug 8, 2016, 11:24 PM
Aug 2016

Average. Honestly the media are so terrified of being called biased by teabaggers, that they can't state facts and numbers.

Beartracks

(12,809 posts)
16. Does he lie? Or just make shit up?
Mon Aug 8, 2016, 11:49 AM
Aug 2016

I imagine it's some of both but.... Lying requires someone to know the truth, and then purposely say something else. I'm not sure Trump knows or even cares what the truth is about anything. Most of the time he seems to just make shit up.

forkol

(113 posts)
17. Ha! Especially liked this comparison...
Mon Aug 8, 2016, 12:58 PM
Aug 2016
Yet the idea that they are even in the same league is preposterous. If deception were a sport, Trump would be the Olympic gold medalist; Clinton would be an honorable mention at her local Y...


That should probably read:

Yet the idea that they are even in the same league is preposterous. If deception were a sport, Trump would be the Michael Phelps level of Gold medalists winners; Clinton would be an honorable mention at her local Y.


And with his good buddy Putin putting the needle in his behind, pumping him full of 'roids. Maybe that's where he gets his rage from?

King_Klonopin

(1,306 posts)
21. If you dissect his behavior just a tad deeper,
Tue Aug 9, 2016, 02:45 AM
Aug 2016

you may be struck by a pattern of lying when he doesn't even have to lie.
He just lies out of reflex, habit and a compulsion to embellish a fact which
does not need embellishment. For example:

If I were worth 1 billion dollars, I would not feel compelled to claim I was worth
4 billion dollars. However, in Donnie's insecure and vain world, he knows that if
1 billion is good, then 4 billion is better. He is compelled to paint himself in
"superlative" terms, no matter the subject, and to tear down his adversaries in
similarly extreme, negative terms.

This is a trait indicative of pathology. It is common among people with addictions,
and -- of course -- those who are exceedingly vain, and the pathological liar.
He is in the latter grouping, without a doubt.

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
22. Trump supporters are going to have to come with another
Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:46 AM
Aug 2016

reason for supporting Trump over Clinton because Trump is definitely the bigger liar.. by far.

yellowcanine

(35,699 posts)
23. The WP front page story was brutal this morning.
Wed Aug 10, 2016, 06:59 AM
Aug 2016

Basically brought up all of the dog whistles, "people say" etc. The Rubicon has been crossed. Trump no longer gets any benefit of the doubt. Finally.

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