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Native

(5,935 posts)
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 09:45 AM Aug 2016

Been wondering why it's pivoting for Trump but flip-flopping for Hillary...

thought these were some sound points on the difference:

Trump’s reboots VS Clinton’s flip-flops
AUGUST 20, 2016 JENNYSAUL
More great points from Susan Bordo.

With Trump, the media inhabits the postmodern world of performance and image, in which the relevant question is rarely “is what he’s saying true or false?” but “how is it playing?” In this world, there is no “real” Trump—or more precisely, few people seem to care to distinguish the “real” from the “image.” There are only a series of performances, “reboots,” “resets,” and “pivots” which will be sustainable or not, will do the trick or not, will win the election or not…

For other politicians—Hillary most notably—“complete reversals” are called “flip-flops.” “Showing” is contrasted to “being transparent” or “authentic.” And a pledge such as the one Donald made in his restyled speech—“I promise you this: I will always tell you the truth”—would be met with laughter, derision, and disbelief. (He then went on to tell several lies—or what, in the criteria applied to Hillary, would be described as lies—including reference to her “illegal email server.”)


https://feministphilosophers.wordpress.com/2016/08/20/trumps-reboots-vs-clintons-flip-flops/
http://www.bordocrossings.com/single-post/2016/08/19/What%E2%80%99s-the-Difference-Between-%E2%80%9CRe-setting%E2%80%9D-and-Lying-According-to-Morning-Joe-Trump-Does-One-and-Hillary-Does-the-Other
31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Been wondering why it's pivoting for Trump but flip-flopping for Hillary... (Original Post) Native Aug 2016 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author MichiganVote Aug 2016 #1
There is this... liberal N proud Aug 2016 #2
Just keeping that horserace going. "Look out! Is she stumbling? Is he catching up?" nolabear Aug 2016 #3
This kind of thing makes my blood boil mcar Aug 2016 #4
Because the media has to sell a story and that is "a new Donald Trump" will make this a .... Botany Aug 2016 #5
the media always gives fucking Republicans the benefit of the doubt Fast Walker 52 Aug 2016 #6
Spot on. DURHAM D Aug 2016 #7
This is exactly what I've been saying! Trump announces he'll be trying out a new personality... Curtland1015 Aug 2016 #8
I'm sure there's more that we can add to this list... Native Aug 2016 #10
Because it's Hillary DemonGoddess Aug 2016 #9
Anyone who's ever used "Camp Weathervane" to refer to Clinton or her supporters betsuni Aug 2016 #11
+1 Starry Messenger Aug 2016 #12
They certainly feed into the RW narrative, don't they? mcar Aug 2016 #14
More double standards treestar Aug 2016 #13
+1, I haven't heard HRC pivoting on anything so far uponit7771 Aug 2016 #15
Good point! SunSeeker Aug 2016 #20
Lies mgardener Aug 2016 #16
K&R fleabiscuit Aug 2016 #17
I kind of like the difference. sofa king Aug 2016 #18
It is Trump's version of Romney's Etch-a-Sketch plan. nt tblue37 Aug 2016 #29
Yes, and even less likely to work. sofa king Aug 2016 #30
IOKIYAR SunSeeker Aug 2016 #19
The MEDIA is scared to death of Trump. He is part of a plutocratic brotherhood that will exact venge Augiedog Aug 2016 #21
It's almost all here Pantagruelsmember Aug 2016 #22
Because he's a child snd she's a grownup. Nonhlanhla Aug 2016 #23
deocrat vs publican. CAN'T APPEAR LIBRAL. so we will PROVE IT BY BEING ON THE OTHER SIDE. pansypoo53219 Aug 2016 #24
It would be a sign of weakness for Hillary. JoePhilly Aug 2016 #25
IOKIYAR. muntrv Aug 2016 #26
There's a double standard for the GOP. Period. Glamrock Aug 2016 #27
k and r niyad Aug 2016 #28
Republicanese: similar to English, but not quite DFW Aug 2016 #31

Response to Native (Original post)

nolabear

(41,915 posts)
3. Just keeping that horserace going. "Look out! Is she stumbling? Is he catching up?"
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 09:49 AM
Aug 2016

No, and no. But keep those bets coming!

mcar

(42,206 posts)
4. This kind of thing makes my blood boil
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 09:50 AM
Aug 2016

I'm sure HRC's people are on it but the double standard is so obvious.

Botany

(70,288 posts)
5. Because the media has to sell a story and that is "a new Donald Trump" will make this a ....
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 09:55 AM
Aug 2016

.... competitive race and please keep watching as we put on panels of "experts" to
tell you that. But in reality it is mid August and Trump does not have a campaign office
in Cincinnati, OH, Trump's two nice campaign bosses have never run a single campaign,
and Trump gets his "news" from Breitbart which makes the National Enquirer look like
Scientific American.

Curtland1015

(4,404 posts)
8. This is exactly what I've been saying! Trump announces he'll be trying out a new personality...
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 10:04 AM
Aug 2016

...and the media just gets behind it!

"Haha! Great! Lets see how this one works! Good luck Don!"

Native

(5,935 posts)
10. I'm sure there's more that we can add to this list...
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 10:11 AM
Aug 2016

With Trump it's been called a
"reset"
"retooling"
"reboot"
"pivot"
"the new look"
"the kind of Trump" (as in which kind of Trump)
"do over"
"complete reversal"


Vs. Hillary's LIES!

betsuni

(25,122 posts)
11. Anyone who's ever used "Camp Weathervane" to refer to Clinton or her supporters
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 10:31 AM
Aug 2016

is an idiot. IDIOT. I can't stress this enough. IDIOT.

mgardener

(1,799 posts)
16. Lies
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 11:17 AM
Aug 2016

Wonder why they say Hillary " lies" and Trump ?
They just report his "lies" but don't call them that.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
18. I kind of like the difference.
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 11:40 AM
Aug 2016

Seriously, the difference in language used is not entirely in Trump's favor. Trump can reboot, reset, or pivot because a computer or a game console--or a fixed artillery piece--does not go anywhere, is fixed on its own center of gravity, and has no direction other than that assigned by outside forces.

On the other hand, something or someone that is actually going somewhere, like a gymmnast, can flip-flop or reverse.

sofa king

(10,857 posts)
30. Yes, and even less likely to work.
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 02:52 AM
Aug 2016

Romney thought he could present right-wing racists with a fait accompli and they would have no choice but to vote for him, but a significant (yet small) percentage of them stayed home.

Trump went straight after the right-wing racists and alienated the Republicans who do the heavy intellectual lifting, who do the organizing, and who have all the money, which is why his campaign is an unending disaster. His absolutism and unwillingness to compromise makes it difficult or impossible for many people to publicly support him at this point, no matter what he says or does from this point forward.

Rather than an Etch-a-Sketch, Donald Trump's position is more like that of a jetliner that has lost power: he can point the plane any damned direction he wants to, but from here on out the primary direction it's going to go is down.

Augiedog

(2,541 posts)
21. The MEDIA is scared to death of Trump. He is part of a plutocratic brotherhood that will exact venge
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 11:43 AM
Aug 2016

on those who screw with said brotherhood. They all see themselves to one degree or another in Trumps image. Trump is exposing them to the one thing they cannot abide, ridicule. The MEDIA is the venue, the channel, the messenger. And we all know what happens to the messenger.

pansypoo53219

(20,906 posts)
24. deocrat vs publican. CAN'T APPEAR LIBRAL. so we will PROVE IT BY BEING ON THE OTHER SIDE.
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 12:33 PM
Aug 2016

see, its even stevens.

Glamrock

(11,781 posts)
27. There's a double standard for the GOP. Period.
Sat Aug 20, 2016, 03:08 PM
Aug 2016

We can choose to attribute it to misogyny.
We can choose to attribute it to Hillary hate.
We can choose to attribute it to whatever personal pet outrage we desire. There may even be a little truth to some of those arguments. But, they would still be wrong.

They called John Kerry a flip flopper and gave W. a pass.
The list is endless. The fact is, there is a double standard. Has been ever since Reagan did away with the fairness doctrine. It got worse when someone passed the Telecommunication Act of 1996. We have serious, serious issues with our media that needs to be addressed. Ignoring the cause in favor of our own hot button issues ain't gonna fix it.

DFW

(54,050 posts)
31. Republicanese: similar to English, but not quite
Sun Aug 21, 2016, 03:04 AM
Aug 2016

English "right wing fanatic" = Republicanese "conservative" (southern dialect: "conserv'tive&quot

English "conservative" = Republicanese "moderate Democrat"

English "Democratic" = Republicanese "Democrat" (southern dialect: "dem'crat&quot

English "there" = Republicanese "their"

English "their" = Republicanese "there"

English "they're" = Republicanese "there" or "their" (interchangeable as long as incorrect in English)

English "lose" = Republicanese "loose"

Formation of plurals:

English: usually add an "s" with a few exceptions for irregular nouns
Republicanese: use an apostrophe before adding an "s," should be done frequently, but at random
e.g. English: "He hates the Clintons" Republicanese: "He hates the Clinton's"

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