2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMemo to Tim Canova: If you're running for the *Democratic* nomination....
...you might want to try stumping for votes at places other than Joyce Kaufman's (Trump 2016/hang the immigrants/ballots then bullets) radio show.
Truly idiotic. Good riddance.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)Tonight's #'s proove that.
Kudos to our fighter in the House..Debbie Wasserman Schultz. A President Hillary will need all the strength & loyalty DWS will bring to the House.
Happy happy day!
monmouth4
(9,686 posts)him. I'm saddened DS won..Oh well..
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,154 posts)And not once taking the time to call her out on her extremism? That would have been a perfect way to build his liberal creds and yet he could completely blew it.
think
(11,641 posts)davsand
(13,421 posts)Getting REAL tired of hearing that progressives are not "Democrats."
happydaze
(46 posts)All that free GOTV work and all the energy placed into different causes needed championing just left the corruption that is the DNC? WTF would these corporate Dems do then?
Shit at this point, with Republicans jumping ship, progressive's could swing on in and rebrand that party if they weren't so disgusted by the brand of anti-everything!
In all the years that I have been paying attention (and yes since middle school politica was important and facinating to me), have I felt so upset with this party that I originally couldn't wait to join.
emulatorloo
(44,066 posts)DWS may suck but apparently her constituents like her.
Maru Kitteh
(28,314 posts)Nicely done!
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)The oligarks and cipatilists are taking over. Fashist croney cipitilists.
liberalnarb
(4,532 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)and can't be a 'true progressive' when I say that I always supported Hillary.
So, yeah, that goes both ways.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Does it even exist any more? Look it up. You may learn something that will surprise ya.
think
(11,641 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)emulatorloo
(44,066 posts)And sell it to all the gullible BOB's?
My patience is wearing thin from all the endless goal post shifting.
I kindly request you put away all your false "Hillary is SATAN" internet memes and stop playing games. This election is important stuff, no time to fool around.
think
(11,641 posts)needs conspiracy theories to know what the DLC was all about.
Everyone knows that even the Koch brothers were allowed to buy into the DLC.
These aren't satanic memes nor is this conspiracy theory. Just simple facts.
Hope you have a wonderful day.
Loki
(3,825 posts)The DLC is gone, Bernie wouldn't even come and campaign for him. The Revolution isn't working so well, so why do you keep wanting to fight that battle and not pay attention to the gigantic one that is standing right in front of you? Do you want Trump for president? If not, start putting that energy into electing people across this country who will at least try to put into place policies that will help people instead of kill us. Your choice.
think
(11,641 posts)BY JERRY IANNELLI - MONDAY, AUGUST 8, 2016 AT 1:21 P.M.
~snip~
Last month, New Times broke news that Canova's name turned up repeatedly in the DNC's email leak. WikiLeaks' email database showed that DNC staffers, who were not part of Wasserman Schultz's campaign team, routinely kept tabs on Canova's campaign, shared articles about him, and helped the congresswoman coordinate her fight against him.
~Snip~
In another email chain, DNC spokesperson Luis Miranda asked staffers to "do some digging" for information about a May rally at which Canova planned to speak in Alaska. The rally had been scheduled to compete with one of Wassserman Schultz's speeches.
"When is he [Canova] speaking compared to when she [Wasserman Schultz] is speaking?" DNC staffer Kate Houghton wrote May 12. "Adding a few more people. We need as much intel as you can provide."
If the FEC chooses to enforce Canova's complaint, the commission could levy fines against Wasserman Schultz.
~Snip~
http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/tim-canova-files-formal-election-complaint-against-debbie-wasserman-schultz-8667388
But I understand. You don't care....
Loki
(3,825 posts)I have my priorities straight. Good luck.
think
(11,641 posts)As my father told me, be sure to pick your battles. There is a much more dangerous one ahead, I'm picking that one. You keep plugging away at this one, I'll fight mine.
think
(11,641 posts)emulatorloo
(44,066 posts)I know all about the damned DLC, and it went out of business years ago.
I also know about people who move the goal-posts to pretend a lifelong democrat is evil/"just the same" and must be STOPPED! And PUNISHED, so that the glorious revolution will come after Trump's swearing in.
I believed that nonsense myself, but learned quickly when Reagan won his second term. That's when I realized I was a fucking idiot.
Response to NurseJackie (Reply #13)
Post removed
emulatorloo
(44,066 posts)DWS positions may suck in many ways, but as far as I know neither you nor I vote in her district. Apparently they seem to like her. Not up to us.
ciaobaby
(1,000 posts)But keep putting out facts and they will continue to look the other way.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)They didn't completely go away. PPI still exists.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)emulatorloo
(44,066 posts)platitudipus
(64 posts)An ideology can't go out of business.
emulatorloo
(44,066 posts)Of course YMMV, you want to chase ghosts and ignore extremist Republicans, have at it!
Welcome to DU! Great to see new members!
Response to emulatorloo (Reply #27)
Name removed Message auto-removed
emulatorloo
(44,066 posts)Fun forum although we argue a lot lol
KMOD
(7,906 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,314 posts)Just like that, it went away.
Yeah verrily, it was a source of amusements to the people, until it was called home. And woe fell upon the LeftBartarians, and they were sad. And woe fell upon the puritopians, and they were sad too. And woe fell upon those who had worshiped the Orange One all along, for their ally was now gone, and the others grown weaker.
Demsrule86
(68,469 posts)but the DLC is gone.
Maru Kitteh
(28,314 posts)operational.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)He ran a really dull campaign.
Deserved to lose.
DWS returns to the House where she again brings her loyal fighting spirit.
Great support for her President Clinton & kicking the Repubs where they need to be kicked. She knows all their vulnerable spots.
DWS can NEVER be called wishy washy!
Great night for her. Now she can move on to campaign for Hillary in FL.
More power to you DWS!!
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Only the DWS haters couldn't see it. Glad this is over with now and everyone can be friends again.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)stonecutter357
(12,694 posts)splat
(2,293 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Also, don't forget the insurance company.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)ehrnst
(32,640 posts)simply because I thought that Bernie lacked the people skills, temprament and judgement on who to take counsel from, to be an effective president.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I'm happy with a liberal label, myself.
Calling yourself a progressive and then running to right wing hate radio to try and get wingnuts to vote for you? That's pretty sick. Seems the opposite of "true" progressivism (whatever the hell that is!).
brooklynite
(94,356 posts)Response to brooklynite (Reply #21)
Name removed Message auto-removed
emulatorloo
(44,066 posts)Those are the fuckers that stabbed him in the back. Now they're Trump Voters or voting for that joke Stein. Antithetical to everything Bernie believes and has worked his entire life for. Fuck them.
JudyM
(29,195 posts)Those are the fuckers that stabbed him in the back."
Isn't it interesting that this description also describes DWS.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)greatauntoftriplets
(175,729 posts)think
(11,641 posts)friends in house?
dflprincess
(28,072 posts)(whatever the hell they're calling themselves these day) behaves that way.
I don't know why, but they're given a pass by way too many people.
jg10003
(975 posts)I wonder what he spent all the money he raised.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)tho they really don't want to win..or know they won't come close.
Seriously has running for election become a way to enrich oneself?
Just grab a Party to run in, play to the media and you can walk away with a hefty coffer.
I was rather surprised to later find out thatSarah Palin was allowed to keep her campaign bankroll.
I guess one could do a lot of vacationing or whatever on "campaign related business".
I think this is a campaign law that may deserve some serious scrutiny.
When a campaign ends & the candidate loses but moves on with millions of campaign donations at their disposal, it kinda leaves one questioning the whole purpose to their campaign. Especially when its clear they never bothered to even use that campaign cash to win their particular race.
Hmmm..
Gore1FL
(21,100 posts)...you might want to try not support usury and Republican candidates.
Truly idiotic.
misterhighwasted
(9,148 posts)She doesn't need your memo.
Thanks anyway.
Gore1FL
(21,100 posts)She's horrible, and could stand to improve.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)But you do you, I guess. Just don't try to pretend it's anyone else's fault that the folks who go around calling everyone else names can't win anywhere.
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)the banner of progressivism but act like neo-liberals. Markets have moral limits and aren't the solution to every problem, and I say that as an economist.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)"protest" from a "movement."
"Enforcing strict adherence to ideology makes for a more cohesive and passionate movement, but it can also make it hard to achieve anything of significance."
See also: Occupy Wall Street.
Dismissing anyone who is with you 99.9% of the time who dares to even breathe towards the center from you as 'establishment' or 'neoliberal' will ensure that the "revolution" will simply become a "green tea party."
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/06/10/the-science-behind-bernie-sanders-failed-movement-explained/#22f9f1362dba
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)To act otherwise is pure ignorance.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Perhaps pure ignorance of that definition affects more people than we think.
": something (such as an opinion about a political or moral issue) that is used to make a judgment about whether someone or something is acceptable
The party is using attitudes about gun control as a litmus test for political candidates."
Is that clearer?
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)They might as well close their eyes and pick a candidate at random.
I don't support candidates who do not agree with me on three key issues, the rest I would negotiate on. If candidate X supports slavery, then I would hazard a guess that they wouldn't pass anyone's litmus test on this site. For every individual you can take candidate X and insert anyone's name, and substitute slavery with anyone's pet issue - it's still a litmus test.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I think that you are using all or nothing statements, concerning litmus test.
We apparently are getting our definitions from different sources.
However - I have found that the wider the number of issues that someone will never compromise on, the more the definition of "litmus test" appears.
The democratic platform is generally my "litmus test" if you want to call it that. One of my basic "litmus" tests is that a candidate have the ability to listen to experts - non-partisan, self funded, reputable organizations in particular - about best practices for public policy.
If a candidate was to promote defunding Planned Parenthood as a way to reduce abortions, then I would know that they are not following the guidance of the medical community on how to reduce abortions. (Bernie's assertion that abortion and contraception are 'social issues" rather than public health issues wasn't what turned me off to Bernie. I happen to know that the president doesn't have much say over this issue.)
If a candidate says that Single Payer is possible within 10 years, then I know that they are not listening to experts in the field of public health policy, and in fact are ignoring attempts to reach out to them to give them data. They are telling voters what they want to hear - just as much as a climate change denier, or Planned Parenthood enemy is telling the public what they want to hear - and if they actually believe it, that's even worse.
I also know that I don't have the background (other than in public health policy) to judge many of the policies that the candidates propose. But if they are going to the right sources for information, then I will have much, much more leeway in trusting what they are proposing for other issues. So I guess I don't think that I have the ability to prescribe a litmus test for certain issues.
I just got sick of people telling me that if I wasn't voting for a candidate promising single payer, I wasn't a progressive - because apparently, that is the "litmus test" of a "true progressive" and that I might as well just throw my vote in with the "corporatist" GOP.
That is what will likely kill any chance that Bernie will have a lasting impact. "Enforcing strict adherence to ideology makes for a more cohesive and passionate movement, but it can also make it hard to achieve anything of significance." That is what happens when adhereing to the "litmus" test becomes more important than adapting to new data, and understanding when you are excluding potential allies. The Democratic Party's strength comes from its alliances of disparate groups (black, lgbtq, women, latinos, new americans) who all have their own differing, but allied priorities. The tea party, and the hardcore Bernie or Bust groups demands of "conforming to the program" won't last.
....including one or two dissenters in the group drastically brought down the pressure to conform, which creates an urge to stamp out dissent. This presents a dilemma: Enforcing strict adherence to ideology makes for a more cohesive and passionate movement, but it can also make it hard to achieve anything of significance.
Another important element of movements is the diffusion of ideas framework developed by Everett Rogers, whose research showed that new ideas are adopted according to a bell curve pattern. First, small groups of innovators and early adopters spearhead the concept and later larger groups in the mainstream catch on. Eventually, even the skeptics join in.
However, in Crossing the Chasm, author Geoffrey Moore pointed out that, while successful ideas do follow the pattern Rogers described, most never make it that far. The problem, he surmised, is that there is a large gap between the mindsets of early adopters and the rest of society, so for a movement to become successful it must adapt itself to the mainstream.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/06/10/the-science-behind-bernie-sanders-failed-movement-explained/#22f9f1362dba
Exilednight
(9,359 posts)...but it can also make it hard to achieve anything of significance.
It may make it hard, but it's the only way to achieve anything of significance. My list of the greatest presidents were not pragmatic and did not look for incremental change.
Were they saints? No, absolutely not. Each had their missteps, character flaws and misguided actions, but their lasting impact has forever changed this country.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)No, that is not the only way to achieve anything of significance, and I think that history shows this. Dictators may get some stuff done, but they don't last.
If you can't bend, you often break. Like I said - the strength of the Democratic Party is its loose alliance of coalitions, not walking lockstep like the GOP.
Being agile requires adaptation. Even the Catholic Church is starting to acknowledge that, but only after all the Cathedrals in Europe were empty but for tourists.
Gore1FL
(21,100 posts)That's what holds progressives back.
No names called by me. Not sure what you are talking about.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)The laziness of perpetual whiners and complainers is well-documented, so that's no surprise. So much easier to fixate on one or two issues as an excuse to malign someone, right?
Gore1FL
(21,100 posts)Apparently, you can name a few off the top of your head.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)ETA: I don't think she's "awesome," just that you're ridiculous in the way you go after her. There's a difference, but zealots wouldn't be able to see it.
Gore1FL
(21,100 posts)It's not ridiculous to criticize DWS. Sorry that me doing so gives you the sads.
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Canova's entire campaign was nothing but a giant sad, which probably explains why it attracted the type of supporters it did. Sad gravitates to sad, right?
And you're only here on this thread because the idea of someone being critical to Canova gave YOU the sads. So really, please stop pushing any issues you may be experiencing onto me already. It's not going to work.
Gore1FL
(21,100 posts)Weird that you feel the need to defend DWS against my criticism of her support of usury and FL Republican candidates and somehow make it about me.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Don't get into the habit of thinking that.
Gore1FL
(21,100 posts)I find DWS to be a bad Democrat, however. I gave examples.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)I'm not being held back.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)stranger81
(2,345 posts)Since we are Democrats, there is no good reason for us to appeal to the likes of Richard Armitage, Bill Kristol, Max Boot, Paul Wolfowitz, Robert Kagan, or Joyce Kaufman. Going so far as to accept endorsements from such company should be unthinkable.
dflprincess
(28,072 posts)and I like it!
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,154 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 31, 2016, 09:39 AM - Edit history (1)
It was actively going on her show, yukking it up for 10 minutes (three times, mind you), and never bothering once to call her on her disgusting statements.
SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)If only John McCain were joining Canova and Grayson as a primary loser tonight. Canova just didn't have the support of the people in his district. I wouldn't be surprised if he weren given a cushy job over at "Our Revolution" or TYT.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)SaschaHM
(2,897 posts)BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Serious people don't hire Nina Turner.
William769
(55,144 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Life knocks us on our ass a lot of times, he said. Everyone gets knocked on their butt a lot of times. The test of character is getting back up on our feet and this movement has been knocked off its feet time and time again.
But even when it became clear later that he had lost, Canova didnt go quietly into the night, refusing to concede.
I will concede Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a corporate stooge, he said.
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article98944892.html#storylink=cpy
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... it's unlikely to be welcomed or heeded by any of the "Our Revolution" approved candidates. They've only got one speed, one gear, and fixed wing position. They just go until they crash. No finesse, no avoiding obstacles, no turning left, no veering right, no rudder, no flaps, no avoiding storms or riding currents, no negotiating, no adjustments, no fine-tuning. It's just full-on, throttle-wide-open, full-speed-ahead.
Big and showy. Loud and bright. But it's not controlled or measured. Just a big flash, then nothing.
Most of the time, the voters catch on and figure it out... and that's why candidates like that are usually relegated to the fringe of the party. Ineffective in spite of their bluster and anger.
On a rare occasion or two, the hail-mary pass reaches its target ... but aside from being able to declare an initial victory, nothing else gets accomplished. Oh, sure, there are some hardcore enthusiasts who'll proudly claim that "making no compromise and accomplishing NOTHING" is an achievement ... but they're only fooling themselves.
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)yet dares to breathe in the direction of the center from them is "Corporatist Stooge."
They will go the way of Occupy Wall Street if they keep it up.
However, in Crossing the Chasm, author Geoffrey Moore pointed out that, while successful ideas do follow the pattern Rogers described, most never make it that far. The problem, he surmised, is that there is a large gap between the mindsets of early adopters and the rest of society, so for a movement to become successful it must adapt itself to the mainstream.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/06/10/the-science-behind-bernie-sanders-failed-movement-explained/#22f9f1362dba