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Tommy_Carcetti

(43,154 posts)
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 09:08 PM Aug 2016

Memo to Tim Canova: If you're running for the *Democratic* nomination....

...you might want to try stumping for votes at places other than Joyce Kaufman's (Trump 2016/hang the immigrants/ballots then bullets) radio show.

Truly idiotic. Good riddance.

100 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Memo to Tim Canova: If you're running for the *Democratic* nomination.... (Original Post) Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2016 OP
Vanity campaigns weren't just for Republicans this year. nt BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #1
Vanity and spite. Not a winning combination to run a campaign on. misterhighwasted Aug 2016 #8
He was all over his district and to all of the Century Villages. No good riddance I hope. We need monmouth4 Aug 2016 #2
+1 liberalnarb Aug 2016 #45
+1 JudyM Aug 2016 #48
But why Joyce Kaufman's show? Three times? Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2016 #67
He'll never be DNC material.... think Aug 2016 #3
He's not quite enough of a corporitist, I guess. davsand Aug 2016 #4
Perhaps that's our problem? What happens if the base and happydaze Aug 2016 #16
You can't even spell your meaningless bullshit jargon term correctly emulatorloo Aug 2016 #19
. . . . . . Maru Kitteh Aug 2016 #80
. NCTraveler Sep 2016 #100
Apparently DWS was not DNC material either. liberalnarb Aug 2016 #46
I get real tired of being called a corporatist ehrnst Aug 2016 #73
You mean DLC material, somehow you pit an N in there. Exilednight Aug 2016 #10
Still going on about that, are we? Bloody hell! Give it a rest, won't ya? NurseJackie Aug 2016 #13
The Clinton Foundation bought the record archives... think Aug 2016 #14
Good for them! NurseJackie Aug 2016 #15
What do you want? The records to be shredded so you can fabricate a Conspiracy Theory? emulatorloo Aug 2016 #30
Did you have any factual information to add to the conversation? There are plenty of facts. No one think Aug 2016 #54
Your guy lost, Loki Aug 2016 #60
DWS used the DNC to help her campaign against Canova. think Aug 2016 #63
No, it's not that I don't care, Loki Aug 2016 #68
Did DWS use the DNC against the rules to help her win? think Aug 2016 #69
Your opinion. Loki Aug 2016 #70
My opinion? The emails showed them coordinating against Canova. Those are facts. think Aug 2016 #71
No, I am a fucking idiot and you are the only intelligent one on DU emulatorloo Sep 2016 #99
Post removed Post removed Aug 2016 #18
More concerned about Tea Party Republicans than a defunct rotary club for Dems emulatorloo Aug 2016 #22
You haven't noticed, they don't care here. ciaobaby Aug 2016 #40
Just because they don't exist on paper doesn't mean they don't exist in practice. Exilednight Aug 2016 #53
What's a "revolution" without some "boogeyman" hiding in the shadows, eh? NurseJackie Aug 2016 #66
Your ad hominem attack just proves your ignorance of the facts. Exilednight Aug 2016 #76
Like chemtrails? (nt) ehrnst Aug 2016 #78
Oogah boogah. DLC went our of business a long time ago emulatorloo Aug 2016 #20
No, they just took down the signs and went dark. platitudipus Aug 2016 #24
More worried about Teaparty Republicans than a defunct "ideology" emulatorloo Aug 2016 #27
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2016 #34
You're welcome! Cool you are here! emulatorloo Aug 2016 #35
NO WE DON'T!!!!!!!!!! KMOD Aug 2016 #36
.... emulatorloo Aug 2016 #38
Well poo sticks! Maru Kitteh Aug 2016 #85
People can have plenty of differnet view points Demsrule86 Aug 2016 #58
Like the DLC, the poster you reply to here is also no longer Maru Kitteh Aug 2016 #86
~o~ NurseJackie Aug 2016 #12
Good riddance is correct. misterhighwasted Aug 2016 #5
+1 oasis Aug 2016 #7
She brings more to the table than Canova could. Apparently the voters knew that too. NurseJackie Aug 2016 #17
Sure! misterhighwasted Aug 2016 #23
K&R! stonecutter357 Aug 2016 #6
Progressive" has been a party, a description and a hat. Nobody knows who's wearing it now. n/t splat Aug 2016 #9
Which is why I've never been afraid or ashamed to stand by the word "liberal." BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #11
Omg..haaahaaa misterhighwasted Aug 2016 #39
Tell me about it - I have been excluded from the term "true progressive'" ehrnst Aug 2016 #74
A lot of people affecting the term are terribly intolerant. MADem Aug 2016 #87
Canova will be endorsing his opponent...right? brooklynite Aug 2016 #21
Post removed Post removed Aug 2016 #28
Bernie's been honored, except by the ignorant BOB's who never gave a shit about Bernie in the first emulatorloo Aug 2016 #33
"Bernie's been honored, except by the ignorant BOB's who never gave a shit about Bernie in the first JudyM Aug 2016 #49
The Bernie Treatment??? KMOD Aug 2016 #41
He's going to get a third house? BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #55
... greatauntoftriplets Aug 2016 #64
Who was it that couldn't endorse Democratic House candidates in their area do to GOP think Aug 2016 #29
It's different when a "DLC/BlueDog/"New"Democrat/Third Way/Rockefeller Republican" dflprincess Aug 2016 #43
I live in Broward county, I didn't see 1 tv commercial for Canova until about 2 days ago. jg10003 Aug 2016 #25
I've wondered that same thing. Especially this election with so many running as misterhighwasted Aug 2016 #37
Memo to Debbie Wasserman Schultz: If you're running for the *Democratic* nomination.... Gore1FL Aug 2016 #26
Umm..she just beat that stranger Cannova. misterhighwasted Aug 2016 #31
Yeah she does. Gore1FL Aug 2016 #51
Being this petty and spiteful is what holds progressives back, seriously. BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #56
What holds progressives back is people who claim to hold Exilednight Aug 2016 #57
Litmus tests and being required to walk lockstep is what differentiates a ehrnst Aug 2016 #77
Everyone has a litmus test. Exilednight Aug 2016 #84
There is a particular definition of litmus test ehrnst Aug 2016 #88
it just reinforces my statement. If someone doesn't have a litmus test, then Exilednight Aug 2016 #93
And you are reinforcing my statement... ehrnst Sep 2016 #95
One of your sentences sums it all up for me. Exilednight Sep 2016 #97
Not my sentence - but "Enforcing strict adherence to ideology" was what it was actuallyreferring to. ehrnst Sep 2016 #98
DWS supported usury and GOP candidates in Florida. Gore1FL Aug 2016 #61
I guess looking at her total record would be too much work, huh? BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #62
Please share the issues that make her awesome in your eyes. Gore1FL Aug 2016 #65
Here. Educate yourself, maybe. BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #72
I am capable of looking up her record. I am critical of it. I gave examples and everything. Gore1FL Aug 2016 #90
You make me laugh, actually. SO MUCH projection, my god. BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #91
Projection? You seem to be putting words and motives into my mouth. Gore1FL Aug 2016 #94
Not all candidates require adoration, nor voters messiahs. ehrnst Aug 2016 #81
That never was my way of looking at it. Gore1FL Aug 2016 #89
I'm a progressive and I don't support usury and GOP candidates. ehrnst Sep 2016 #96
Happy for DWS. Thinkingabout Aug 2016 #32
That's right! No talking to right-wingers for any reason! stranger81 Aug 2016 #42
I see what you did there dflprincess Aug 2016 #44
Except with Kaufman it was more than just an endorsement. Tommy_Carcetti Aug 2016 #52
And there goes the end of this truly idiotic proxy battle. SaschaHM Aug 2016 #47
Plenty of openings at Our Revolution right now. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2016 #82
They announced the new board filled with Bernie regulars like Shailene Woodly and Nina Turner. SaschaHM Aug 2016 #83
So they're just openly trying to tank the effort now, then? BobbyDrake Aug 2016 #92
kick & recommended. William769 Aug 2016 #50
With an attitude like this, I wish he'd lost by more: George II Aug 2016 #59
Excellent advice. But ... NurseJackie Aug 2016 #75
Yes, because anyone who is with them 99.99% of the time ehrnst Aug 2016 #79

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
8. Vanity and spite. Not a winning combination to run a campaign on.
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 09:26 PM
Aug 2016

Tonight's #'s proove that.
Kudos to our fighter in the House..Debbie Wasserman Schultz. A President Hillary will need all the strength & loyalty DWS will bring to the House.

Happy happy day!


monmouth4

(9,686 posts)
2. He was all over his district and to all of the Century Villages. No good riddance I hope. We need
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 09:12 PM
Aug 2016

him. I'm saddened DS won..Oh well..

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,154 posts)
67. But why Joyce Kaufman's show? Three times?
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 09:24 AM
Aug 2016

And not once taking the time to call her out on her extremism? That would have been a perfect way to build his liberal creds and yet he could completely blew it.

davsand

(13,421 posts)
4. He's not quite enough of a corporitist, I guess.
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 09:20 PM
Aug 2016

Getting REAL tired of hearing that progressives are not "Democrats."

 

happydaze

(46 posts)
16. Perhaps that's our problem? What happens if the base and
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 10:09 PM
Aug 2016

All that free GOTV work and all the energy placed into different causes needed championing just left the corruption that is the DNC? WTF would these corporate Dems do then?

Shit at this point, with Republicans jumping ship, progressive's could swing on in and rebrand that party if they weren't so disgusted by the brand of anti-everything!

In all the years that I have been paying attention (and yes since middle school politica was important and facinating to me), have I felt so upset with this party that I originally couldn't wait to join.

emulatorloo

(44,066 posts)
19. You can't even spell your meaningless bullshit jargon term correctly
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 10:19 PM
Aug 2016

DWS may suck but apparently her constituents like her.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
73. I get real tired of being called a corporatist
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 09:41 AM
Aug 2016

and can't be a 'true progressive' when I say that I always supported Hillary.

So, yeah, that goes both ways.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
13. Still going on about that, are we? Bloody hell! Give it a rest, won't ya?
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 09:57 PM
Aug 2016

Does it even exist any more? Look it up. You may learn something that will surprise ya.

emulatorloo

(44,066 posts)
30. What do you want? The records to be shredded so you can fabricate a Conspiracy Theory?
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 11:02 PM
Aug 2016

And sell it to all the gullible BOB's?

My patience is wearing thin from all the endless goal post shifting.

I kindly request you put away all your false "Hillary is SATAN" internet memes and stop playing games. This election is important stuff, no time to fool around.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
54. Did you have any factual information to add to the conversation? There are plenty of facts. No one
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 07:22 AM
Aug 2016

needs conspiracy theories to know what the DLC was all about.

Everyone knows that even the Koch brothers were allowed to buy into the DLC.

These aren't satanic memes nor is this conspiracy theory. Just simple facts.

Hope you have a wonderful day.


Loki

(3,825 posts)
60. Your guy lost,
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 08:34 AM
Aug 2016

The DLC is gone, Bernie wouldn't even come and campaign for him. The Revolution isn't working so well, so why do you keep wanting to fight that battle and not pay attention to the gigantic one that is standing right in front of you? Do you want Trump for president? If not, start putting that energy into electing people across this country who will at least try to put into place policies that will help people instead of kill us. Your choice.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
63. DWS used the DNC to help her campaign against Canova.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 08:59 AM
Aug 2016
Tim Canova Files Formal Election Complaint Against Debbie Wasserman Schultz

BY JERRY IANNELLI - MONDAY, AUGUST 8, 2016 AT 1:21 P.M.

~snip~

Last month, New Times broke news that Canova's name turned up repeatedly in the DNC's email leak. WikiLeaks' email database showed that DNC staffers, who were not part of Wasserman Schultz's campaign team, routinely kept tabs on Canova's campaign, shared articles about him, and helped the congresswoman coordinate her fight against him.

~Snip~

In another email chain, DNC spokesperson Luis Miranda asked staffers to "do some digging" for information about a May rally at which Canova planned to speak in Alaska. The rally had been scheduled to compete with one of Wassserman Schultz's speeches.

"When is he [Canova] speaking compared to when she [Wasserman Schultz] is speaking?" DNC staffer Kate Houghton wrote May 12. "Adding a few more people. We need as much intel as you can provide."

If the FEC chooses to enforce Canova's complaint, the commission could levy fines against Wasserman Schultz.

~Snip~

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/tim-canova-files-formal-election-complaint-against-debbie-wasserman-schultz-8667388


But I understand. You don't care....

Loki

(3,825 posts)
70. Your opinion.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 09:32 AM
Aug 2016

As my father told me, be sure to pick your battles. There is a much more dangerous one ahead, I'm picking that one. You keep plugging away at this one, I'll fight mine.

emulatorloo

(44,066 posts)
99. No, I am a fucking idiot and you are the only intelligent one on DU
Thu Sep 1, 2016, 01:45 PM
Sep 2016

I know all about the damned DLC, and it went out of business years ago.

I also know about people who move the goal-posts to pretend a lifelong democrat is evil/"just the same" and must be STOPPED! And PUNISHED, so that the glorious revolution will come after Trump's swearing in.

I believed that nonsense myself, but learned quickly when Reagan won his second term. That's when I realized I was a fucking idiot.

Response to NurseJackie (Reply #13)

emulatorloo

(44,066 posts)
22. More concerned about Tea Party Republicans than a defunct rotary club for Dems
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 10:41 PM
Aug 2016

DWS positions may suck in many ways, but as far as I know neither you nor I vote in her district. Apparently they seem to like her. Not up to us.

 

ciaobaby

(1,000 posts)
40. You haven't noticed, they don't care here.
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 11:19 PM
Aug 2016

But keep putting out facts and they will continue to look the other way.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
53. Just because they don't exist on paper doesn't mean they don't exist in practice.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 07:17 AM
Aug 2016

They didn't completely go away. PPI still exists.

emulatorloo

(44,066 posts)
27. More worried about Teaparty Republicans than a defunct "ideology"
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 10:59 PM
Aug 2016

Of course YMMV, you want to chase ghosts and ignore extremist Republicans, have at it!

Welcome to DU! Great to see new members!

Response to emulatorloo (Reply #27)

Maru Kitteh

(28,314 posts)
85. Well poo sticks!
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 12:34 PM
Aug 2016

Just like that, it went away.
Yeah verrily, it was a source of amusements to the people, until it was called home. And woe fell upon the LeftBartarians, and they were sad. And woe fell upon the puritopians, and they were sad too. And woe fell upon those who had worshiped the Orange One all along, for their ally was now gone, and the others grown weaker.



misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
5. Good riddance is correct.
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 09:22 PM
Aug 2016

He ran a really dull campaign.
Deserved to lose.
DWS returns to the House where she again brings her loyal fighting spirit.
Great support for her President Clinton & kicking the Repubs where they need to be kicked. She knows all their vulnerable spots.

DWS can NEVER be called wishy washy!

Great night for her. Now she can move on to campaign for Hillary in FL.
More power to you DWS!!

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
17. She brings more to the table than Canova could. Apparently the voters knew that too.
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 10:11 PM
Aug 2016

Only the DWS haters couldn't see it. Glad this is over with now and everyone can be friends again.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
11. Which is why I've never been afraid or ashamed to stand by the word "liberal."
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 09:45 PM
Aug 2016

Also, don't forget the insurance company.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
74. Tell me about it - I have been excluded from the term "true progressive'"
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 09:46 AM
Aug 2016

simply because I thought that Bernie lacked the people skills, temprament and judgement on who to take counsel from, to be an effective president.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
87. A lot of people affecting the term are terribly intolerant.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 02:11 PM
Aug 2016

I'm happy with a liberal label, myself.

Calling yourself a progressive and then running to right wing hate radio to try and get wingnuts to vote for you? That's pretty sick. Seems the opposite of "true" progressivism (whatever the hell that is!).

Response to brooklynite (Reply #21)

emulatorloo

(44,066 posts)
33. Bernie's been honored, except by the ignorant BOB's who never gave a shit about Bernie in the first
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 11:11 PM
Aug 2016

Those are the fuckers that stabbed him in the back. Now they're Trump Voters or voting for that joke Stein. Antithetical to everything Bernie believes and has worked his entire life for. Fuck them.

JudyM

(29,195 posts)
49. "Bernie's been honored, except by the ignorant BOB's who never gave a shit about Bernie in the first
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 01:00 AM
Aug 2016

Those are the fuckers that stabbed him in the back."

Isn't it interesting that this description also describes DWS.

 

think

(11,641 posts)
29. Who was it that couldn't endorse Democratic House candidates in their area do to GOP
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 11:01 PM
Aug 2016

friends in house?

dflprincess

(28,072 posts)
43. It's different when a "DLC/BlueDog/"New"Democrat/Third Way/Rockefeller Republican"
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 11:26 PM
Aug 2016

(whatever the hell they're calling themselves these day) behaves that way.

I don't know why, but they're given a pass by way too many people.

jg10003

(975 posts)
25. I live in Broward county, I didn't see 1 tv commercial for Canova until about 2 days ago.
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 10:54 PM
Aug 2016

I wonder what he spent all the money he raised.

misterhighwasted

(9,148 posts)
37. I've wondered that same thing. Especially this election with so many running as
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 11:18 PM
Aug 2016

tho they really don't want to win..or know they won't come close.
Seriously has running for election become a way to enrich oneself?
Just grab a Party to run in, play to the media and you can walk away with a hefty coffer.

I was rather surprised to later find out thatSarah Palin was allowed to keep her campaign bankroll.

I guess one could do a lot of vacationing or whatever on "campaign related business".

I think this is a campaign law that may deserve some serious scrutiny.
When a campaign ends & the candidate loses but moves on with millions of campaign donations at their disposal, it kinda leaves one questioning the whole purpose to their campaign. Especially when its clear they never bothered to even use that campaign cash to win their particular race.
Hmmm..

Gore1FL

(21,100 posts)
26. Memo to Debbie Wasserman Schultz: If you're running for the *Democratic* nomination....
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 10:57 PM
Aug 2016

...you might want to try not support usury and Republican candidates.

Truly idiotic.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
56. Being this petty and spiteful is what holds progressives back, seriously.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 07:31 AM
Aug 2016

But you do you, I guess. Just don't try to pretend it's anyone else's fault that the folks who go around calling everyone else names can't win anywhere.

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
57. What holds progressives back is people who claim to hold
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 07:41 AM
Aug 2016

the banner of progressivism but act like neo-liberals. Markets have moral limits and aren't the solution to every problem, and I say that as an economist.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
77. Litmus tests and being required to walk lockstep is what differentiates a
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 11:15 AM
Aug 2016

"protest" from a "movement."

"Enforcing strict adherence to ideology makes for a more cohesive and passionate movement, but it can also make it hard to achieve anything of significance."

See also: Occupy Wall Street.


Dismissing anyone who is with you 99.9% of the time who dares to even breathe towards the center from you as 'establishment' or 'neoliberal' will ensure that the "revolution" will simply become a "green tea party."


http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/06/10/the-science-behind-bernie-sanders-failed-movement-explained/#22f9f1362dba


 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
88. There is a particular definition of litmus test
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 03:22 PM
Aug 2016

Perhaps pure ignorance of that definition affects more people than we think.

": something (such as an opinion about a political or moral issue) that is used to make a judgment about whether someone or something is acceptable
The party is using attitudes about gun control as a litmus test for political candidates."

Is that clearer?

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
93. it just reinforces my statement. If someone doesn't have a litmus test, then
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 06:53 PM
Aug 2016

They might as well close their eyes and pick a candidate at random.

I don't support candidates who do not agree with me on three key issues, the rest I would negotiate on. If candidate X supports slavery, then I would hazard a guess that they wouldn't pass anyone's litmus test on this site. For every individual you can take candidate X and insert anyone's name, and substitute slavery with anyone's pet issue - it's still a litmus test.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
95. And you are reinforcing my statement...
Thu Sep 1, 2016, 08:40 AM
Sep 2016

I think that you are using all or nothing statements, concerning litmus test.

We apparently are getting our definitions from different sources.

However - I have found that the wider the number of issues that someone will never compromise on, the more the definition of "litmus test" appears.

The democratic platform is generally my "litmus test" if you want to call it that. One of my basic "litmus" tests is that a candidate have the ability to listen to experts - non-partisan, self funded, reputable organizations in particular - about best practices for public policy.

If a candidate was to promote defunding Planned Parenthood as a way to reduce abortions, then I would know that they are not following the guidance of the medical community on how to reduce abortions. (Bernie's assertion that abortion and contraception are 'social issues" rather than public health issues wasn't what turned me off to Bernie. I happen to know that the president doesn't have much say over this issue.)

If a candidate says that Single Payer is possible within 10 years, then I know that they are not listening to experts in the field of public health policy, and in fact are ignoring attempts to reach out to them to give them data. They are telling voters what they want to hear - just as much as a climate change denier, or Planned Parenthood enemy is telling the public what they want to hear - and if they actually believe it, that's even worse.

I also know that I don't have the background (other than in public health policy) to judge many of the policies that the candidates propose. But if they are going to the right sources for information, then I will have much, much more leeway in trusting what they are proposing for other issues. So I guess I don't think that I have the ability to prescribe a litmus test for certain issues.

I just got sick of people telling me that if I wasn't voting for a candidate promising single payer, I wasn't a progressive - because apparently, that is the "litmus test" of a "true progressive" and that I might as well just throw my vote in with the "corporatist" GOP.

That is what will likely kill any chance that Bernie will have a lasting impact. "Enforcing strict adherence to ideology makes for a more cohesive and passionate movement, but it can also make it hard to achieve anything of significance." That is what happens when adhereing to the "litmus" test becomes more important than adapting to new data, and understanding when you are excluding potential allies. The Democratic Party's strength comes from its alliances of disparate groups (black, lgbtq, women, latinos, new americans) who all have their own differing, but allied priorities. The tea party, and the hardcore Bernie or Bust groups demands of "conforming to the program" won't last.




....including one or two dissenters in the group drastically brought down the pressure to conform, which creates an urge to stamp out dissent. This presents a dilemma: Enforcing strict adherence to ideology makes for a more cohesive and passionate movement, but it can also make it hard to achieve anything of significance.


Another important element of movements is the diffusion of ideas framework developed by Everett Rogers, whose research showed that new ideas are adopted according to a bell curve pattern. First, small groups of innovators and early adopters spearhead the concept and later larger groups in the mainstream catch on. Eventually, even the skeptics join in.

However, in Crossing the Chasm, author Geoffrey Moore pointed out that, while successful ideas do follow the pattern Rogers described, most never make it that far. The problem, he surmised, is that there is a large gap between the mindsets of early adopters and the rest of society, so for a movement to become successful it must adapt itself to the mainstream.





http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/06/10/the-science-behind-bernie-sanders-failed-movement-explained/#22f9f1362dba

Exilednight

(9,359 posts)
97. One of your sentences sums it all up for me.
Thu Sep 1, 2016, 10:07 AM
Sep 2016
...but it can also make it hard to achieve anything of significance.


It may make it hard, but it's the only way to achieve anything of significance. My list of the greatest presidents were not pragmatic and did not look for incremental change.

Were they saints? No, absolutely not. Each had their missteps, character flaws and misguided actions, but their lasting impact has forever changed this country.
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
98. Not my sentence - but "Enforcing strict adherence to ideology" was what it was actuallyreferring to.
Thu Sep 1, 2016, 11:21 AM
Sep 2016

No, that is not the only way to achieve anything of significance, and I think that history shows this. Dictators may get some stuff done, but they don't last.

If you can't bend, you often break. Like I said - the strength of the Democratic Party is its loose alliance of coalitions, not walking lockstep like the GOP.

Being agile requires adaptation. Even the Catholic Church is starting to acknowledge that, but only after all the Cathedrals in Europe were empty but for tourists.






Gore1FL

(21,100 posts)
61. DWS supported usury and GOP candidates in Florida.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 08:34 AM
Aug 2016

That's what holds progressives back.

No names called by me. Not sure what you are talking about.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
62. I guess looking at her total record would be too much work, huh?
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 08:55 AM
Aug 2016

The laziness of perpetual whiners and complainers is well-documented, so that's no surprise. So much easier to fixate on one or two issues as an excuse to malign someone, right?

Gore1FL

(21,100 posts)
65. Please share the issues that make her awesome in your eyes.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 09:09 AM
Aug 2016

Apparently, you can name a few off the top of your head.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
72. Here. Educate yourself, maybe.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 09:40 AM
Aug 2016
http://ontheissues.org/fl/debbie_wasserman_schultz.htm

ETA: I don't think she's "awesome," just that you're ridiculous in the way you go after her. There's a difference, but zealots wouldn't be able to see it.

Gore1FL

(21,100 posts)
90. I am capable of looking up her record. I am critical of it. I gave examples and everything.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 04:24 PM
Aug 2016

It's not ridiculous to criticize DWS. Sorry that me doing so gives you the sads.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
91. You make me laugh, actually. SO MUCH projection, my god.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 05:32 PM
Aug 2016

Canova's entire campaign was nothing but a giant sad, which probably explains why it attracted the type of supporters it did. Sad gravitates to sad, right?

And you're only here on this thread because the idea of someone being critical to Canova gave YOU the sads. So really, please stop pushing any issues you may be experiencing onto me already. It's not going to work.

Gore1FL

(21,100 posts)
94. Projection? You seem to be putting words and motives into my mouth.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 08:53 PM
Aug 2016

Weird that you feel the need to defend DWS against my criticism of her support of usury and FL Republican candidates and somehow make it about me.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
81. Not all candidates require adoration, nor voters messiahs.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 11:29 AM
Aug 2016

Don't get into the habit of thinking that.

Gore1FL

(21,100 posts)
89. That never was my way of looking at it.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 04:21 PM
Aug 2016

I find DWS to be a bad Democrat, however. I gave examples.

stranger81

(2,345 posts)
42. That's right! No talking to right-wingers for any reason!
Tue Aug 30, 2016, 11:23 PM
Aug 2016

Since we are Democrats, there is no good reason for us to appeal to the likes of Richard Armitage, Bill Kristol, Max Boot, Paul Wolfowitz, Robert Kagan, or Joyce Kaufman. Going so far as to accept endorsements from such company should be unthinkable.

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,154 posts)
52. Except with Kaufman it was more than just an endorsement.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 06:03 AM
Aug 2016

Last edited Wed Aug 31, 2016, 09:39 AM - Edit history (1)

It was actively going on her show, yukking it up for 10 minutes (three times, mind you), and never bothering once to call her on her disgusting statements.

SaschaHM

(2,897 posts)
47. And there goes the end of this truly idiotic proxy battle.
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 12:13 AM
Aug 2016

If only John McCain were joining Canova and Grayson as a primary loser tonight. Canova just didn't have the support of the people in his district. I wouldn't be surprised if he weren given a cushy job over at "Our Revolution" or TYT.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
92. So they're just openly trying to tank the effort now, then?
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 05:35 PM
Aug 2016

Serious people don't hire Nina Turner.

George II

(67,782 posts)
59. With an attitude like this, I wish he'd lost by more:
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 08:27 AM
Aug 2016

“Life knocks us on our ass a lot of times,” he said. “Everyone gets knocked on their butt a lot of times. The test of character is getting back up on our feet and this movement has been knocked off its feet time and time again.”

But even when it became clear later that he had lost, Canova didn’t go quietly into the night, refusing to concede.

“I will concede Debbie Wasserman Schultz is a corporate stooge,” he said.


http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/election/article98944892.html#storylink=cpy

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
75. Excellent advice. But ...
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 09:56 AM
Aug 2016

... it's unlikely to be welcomed or heeded by any of the "Our Revolution" approved candidates. They've only got one speed, one gear, and fixed wing position. They just go until they crash. No finesse, no avoiding obstacles, no turning left, no veering right, no rudder, no flaps, no avoiding storms or riding currents, no negotiating, no adjustments, no fine-tuning. It's just full-on, throttle-wide-open, full-speed-ahead.

Big and showy. Loud and bright. But it's not controlled or measured. Just a big flash, then nothing.

Most of the time, the voters catch on and figure it out... and that's why candidates like that are usually relegated to the fringe of the party. Ineffective in spite of their bluster and anger.

On a rare occasion or two, the hail-mary pass reaches its target ... but aside from being able to declare an initial victory, nothing else gets accomplished. Oh, sure, there are some hardcore enthusiasts who'll proudly claim that "making no compromise and accomplishing NOTHING" is an achievement ... but they're only fooling themselves.

 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
79. Yes, because anyone who is with them 99.99% of the time
Wed Aug 31, 2016, 11:21 AM
Aug 2016

yet dares to breathe in the direction of the center from them is "Corporatist Stooge."

They will go the way of Occupy Wall Street if they keep it up.

Another important element of movements is the diffusion of ideas framework developed by Everett Rogers, whose research showed that new ideas are adopted according to a bell curve pattern. First, small groups of innovators and early adopters spearhead the concept and later larger groups in the mainstream catch on. Eventually, even the skeptics join in.

However, in Crossing the Chasm, author Geoffrey Moore pointed out that, while successful ideas do follow the pattern Rogers described, most never make it that far. The problem, he surmised, is that there is a large gap between the mindsets of early adopters and the rest of society, so for a movement to become successful it must adapt itself to the mainstream.





http://www.forbes.com/sites/gregsatell/2016/06/10/the-science-behind-bernie-sanders-failed-movement-explained/#22f9f1362dba
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