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totodeinhere

(13,057 posts)
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 05:31 PM Jun 2014

Fine. I'll say it. If it comes down to Clinton vs Biden, I'm for Joe.

Yes I know we haven't even had the 2014 midterms yet. And I urge all Democrats to work for and contribute to Democrats running in that election and vote for them. It's extremely important.

But since the 2016 election is already being discussed in a multitude of threads, let me put in my two cents. Joe Biden would make a better president than Hillary Clinton and he is just as qualified to be president if not more so. He has been on the front lines fighting for liberal causes and social and class justice for his entire adult life.

We could do far worse than him for president. Remember he was the one who pushed President Obama to change his position on gay marriage. And he has been a sensible and calming influence on the administration's foreign policy. And he is a well respected statesman.

He has also been very strong on campaign finance reform and on reining in Wall Street.

Of course he is not prefect as no politician is. He voted in favor of authorizing the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 as Clinton did. Of course since Warren wasn't in the Senate at the time we don't know how she would have voted.

Yes I could enthusiastically support Senator Warren. But what if she keeps to her word and doesn't run? And yes it's high time that we broke the glass ceiling and elected a woman president. But I don't think that Clinton is that woman. If it comes down to Hillary vs Joe I'm for Joe.

39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Fine. I'll say it. If it comes down to Clinton vs Biden, I'm for Joe. (Original Post) totodeinhere Jun 2014 OP
I hope for Clinton yeoman6987 Jun 2014 #1
Joe is gaff prone? Please don't believe the media, he is not. Whisp Jun 2014 #11
The media defines those memes - in reality neither are anywhere as gaffe prone as some want karynnj Jun 2014 #36
I've never heard any of his so-called gaffes lunatica Jun 2014 #37
Biden has been known for many years stating his mind, this is not a lie. Thinkingabout Jun 2014 #39
i certainly listen if Joe Biden runs Leme Jun 2014 #2
I agree. I can not forgive the "hard working Americans - White Americans" LoisB Jun 2014 #3
That WAS the last straw. FiveGoodMen Jun 2014 #7
yikes, now That's a gaff of epic proportions. This should not be forgiven or overlooked. Whisp Jun 2014 #12
Oh, cry mer a river!!! Beacool Jun 2014 #21
She was NOT quoting a poll. I vote in every election and it is certainly my right to LoisB Jun 2014 #25
Yes, she was quoting a poll. Beacool Jun 2014 #33
Don't forget Hillary's reference to Bobby Kennedy's assassination in arguing why her campaign should go on in 2008--the subject of an incensed Keith O special comment--talk about low! InAbLuEsTaTe Jun 2014 #27
I'm with you Fellers Xipe Totec Jun 2014 #4
One of the Great Movies of all time. Whisp Jun 2014 #13
I love that movie. Beacool Jun 2014 #22
Lucky you! Whisp Jun 2014 #23
Yeah, the old Southern brogue is funny. Beacool Jun 2014 #34
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #5
Enjoy your stay, and say hi to Jeb and Chris TheCowsCameHome Jun 2014 #6
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2014 #8
I vote for whoever wins the Primary....don't you? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #9
So do I. But I am talking about whom I'll vote for in the primary. n/t totodeinhere Jun 2014 #14
And if they don't win? VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #15
I know it's early. But when primary season comes around unless somebody runs unopposed totodeinhere Jun 2014 #16
I will be the most surprised human being if Hillary actually runs Peacetrain Jun 2014 #10
I agree davidpdx Jun 2014 #30
Clinton/Cuomo 2016 blkmusclmachine Jun 2014 #17
If nominatied, Joe, sad to say, will never win. demosincebirth Jun 2014 #18
Well nobody knows for sure. But I think that actually any major Democrat totodeinhere Jun 2014 #20
Nobody knows for sure, like you say, but I've known for years many dems and Indies who are as demosincebirth Jun 2014 #38
And so will I!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2014 #19
Biden sponsored the bankruptcy reform bill... JayhawkSD Jun 2014 #24
As I already said, no candidate is going to be perfect. n/t totodeinhere Jun 2014 #26
Go Joe!!! mwrguy Jun 2014 #28
Agreed. snot Jun 2014 #29
I would lean that way as well, but it depends on who else was running davidpdx Jun 2014 #31
they are both old mgcgulfcoast Jun 2014 #32
How about waiting for next summer? (nt) question everything Jun 2014 #35
 

yeoman6987

(14,449 posts)
1. I hope for Clinton
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 05:34 PM
Jun 2014

Joe is too gaff prone. Hillary really has worked hard for the job. She has been a success at everything she has done in her life. We must come together and at least try and respect her enough to make her President of the United States of America....our country deserves and needs Hillary Clinton for President!

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
11. Joe is gaff prone? Please don't believe the media, he is not.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 06:26 PM
Jun 2014

Hillary is the gaffer, she has such enormous, stupid gaffs another word has to be invented for them.

karynnj

(59,498 posts)
36. The media defines those memes - in reality neither are anywhere as gaffe prone as some want
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 12:51 PM
Jun 2014

to say. Both, in campaigns and in high position are taped for an incredible number of hours. It is hard to imagine that anyone could speak that much and say nothing that - even when isolated from context - can not be spun.

In 2008, when Kerry was a top advocate for Obama, he avoided any temptation to take a cheap shot when he was asked by media at an event (in Texas) for Obama if he thought that Hillary's Bosnia's comments should cause people to be concerned. His answer was that campaigns are incredibly tough - that for him the campaign in 2003/2004 was more physically exhausting than anything in his life and that he had always been athletic. Just thinking of what he said, it is clear has to be mentally, physically and emotionally extremely tough - and they have to be "on" for as many as 16 hours a day - while moving from hotel to hotel.

It is rather offensive - and demeaning - to these people who have risen to the top of the Democratic party that Democrats then take up the very attacks that the Republicans CREATE after parsing eveything and placing it in the very worst light.

I will admit that I see this most clearly for the politicians that I like most. In particular, I have often watched CSPAN or other links to see an entire John Kerry speech. He is an incredibly thoughtful, principled man and I almost always come away impressed --which will surprise no one here. Then, one of two things happen. There is no coverage - after all its "just" the Secretary of State -- OR - there is coverage of one or two sentences taken out of paragraphs that clearly explain what he is saying. This then is used by some Democrats, usually to his right, and the Republicans suggesting he is a loose cannon.

What I have seen, when I look for a fuller account of comments from Biden or, until recently, Hillary Clinton -- I often see the same thing. You might say that this is just the media looking for something more sensational --- except they actually buried genuinely dumb things George Bush said. Watching the NH race, it is interesting that the Boston Globe in the last week or so wrote the story of Scott Brown's selling his name to a sham company and since then going after that story with many followups - but the BG alone can not be an echo chamber.

lunatica

(53,410 posts)
37. I've never heard any of his so-called gaffes
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:50 PM
Jun 2014

and I'm a political junkie. It's a lie invented to make people think that when he tells the truth it's just a gaffe. He's a straight shooter when it comes to telling the truth - an almost impossible feat for politicians so it's easy to create a lie.

I'll vote for whoever gets the nomination. But I think Hillary is as much a lighting rod as Obama is. She always has been. It would be another 4 to 8 years of stagnation and obstruction accompanied with insults and derision and threats of impeachment.

Frankly I'm sick to death of it.

LoisB

(7,188 posts)
3. I agree. I can not forgive the "hard working Americans - White Americans"
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 05:39 PM
Jun 2014

comment during the 2008 campaign in West Virginia. I will do a write-in.

FiveGoodMen

(20,018 posts)
7. That WAS the last straw.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 05:52 PM
Jun 2014

She said a lot of terrible things during that campaign, but that was the worst.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
12. yikes, now That's a gaff of epic proportions. This should not be forgiven or overlooked.
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 06:28 PM
Jun 2014

gack!

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
21. Oh, cry mer a river!!!
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 11:50 PM
Jun 2014

She was just quoting a poll. She was also correct, she was ahead of Obama and won WV by a large margin.

All these constant self righteous statements of people who refuse to vote for her if she's the nominee are a bore.

Vote, don't vote, who gives a damn?

LoisB

(7,188 posts)
25. She was NOT quoting a poll. I vote in every election and it is certainly my right to
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 01:50 AM
Jun 2014

vote for the person of my choosing. It is also my right to voice my opinion; if you don't like it, don't read it.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
33. Yes, she was quoting a poll.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 12:27 PM
Jun 2014

One thing I know is Hillary's 2008 campaign. I was there for the duration.

As for your vote, do whatever you want with it. Waste it on a third party candidate, sit home and mope, whatever........

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
27. Don't forget Hillary's reference to Bobby Kennedy's assassination in arguing why her campaign should go on in 2008--the subject of an incensed Keith O special comment--talk about low!
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 02:20 AM
Jun 2014
 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
23. Lucky you!
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 12:05 AM
Jun 2014

We use a word from the movie that cracks us up: Obb Stackles.
I can't get into the back room on account of them Obb Stackles in the way. lol.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
34. Yeah, the old Southern brogue is funny.
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 12:28 PM
Jun 2014

Not only did I see it in Paris, it was released there before it was released in the US.

Response to totodeinhere (Original post)

Response to TheCowsCameHome (Reply #6)

 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
15. And if they don't win?
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 06:40 PM
Jun 2014

My choice didn't win in the Primary....but you don't hear me complaining about it....I bucked up and respected the choice my fellow Democrats made.

I am not going to go around denigrating ANY Democratic candidate. Because I AM a Democrat.

totodeinhere

(13,057 posts)
16. I know it's early. But when primary season comes around unless somebody runs unopposed
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 06:44 PM
Jun 2014

we are going to have to take sides. And there's nothing wrong with saying whose side I would be on.

Peacetrain

(22,872 posts)
10. I will be the most surprised human being if Hillary actually runs
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 06:12 PM
Jun 2014

I can't tell you why, but for the life of me, I just do not see her running again. My guess is that we are going to have someone running that no one is even talking about right now.. Just a guess

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
30. I agree
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:11 AM
Jun 2014

There are going to be some crushed souls on DU the day it happens. I'll go one step further and say you are going to hear some rather nasty accusations revolving around the decision that have nothing to do with the Republicans.

totodeinhere

(13,057 posts)
20. Well nobody knows for sure. But I think that actually any major Democrat
Wed Jun 11, 2014, 09:29 PM
Jun 2014

would win. The Republican Party is toast on the national level until it moves away from its right wing extremism, and I see no sign that it will do that anytime soon.

demosincebirth

(12,530 posts)
38. Nobody knows for sure, like you say, but I've known for years many dems and Indies who are as
Fri Jun 13, 2014, 11:47 PM
Jun 2014

wish-washy as a scrub board. These are the ones who elect Presidents, sad to say.

 

JayhawkSD

(3,163 posts)
24. Biden sponsored the bankruptcy reform bill...
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 01:19 AM
Jun 2014

...which is one of the most anti-populist peices of legislation to pass Congress in several generations.

The being said, Biden is more liberal on his worst day that Clinton is on her best day, and is so much better for the working class that Clinton is not even on the same planet with him.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
31. I would lean that way as well, but it depends on who else was running
Thu Jun 12, 2014, 05:13 AM
Jun 2014

The inevitability drum will keep on beating.

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