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William769

(55,124 posts)
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 04:56 PM Jun 2014

Why LGBT Americans Are Leery of Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby Ruling

LGBT activists have been warning about this scenario. The Supreme Court ruled today that employers have a right to cite their religion as reason to deny employees coverage for contraception, and that leaves some wondering what comes next.

The impact of the court's 5-4 ruling is still being interpreted by legal analysts. But despite assurances from the court that its ruling is "very specific," it could still have far-reaching consequences for LGBT Americans when seeking health care or even, eventually, in their daily lives. The court said Hobby Lobby and other closely held corporations are protected from the government interfering in the exercise of their religion by the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993. The Internal Revenue Service defines a closely held corporation as one in which more than 50 percent of the value of all outstanding stock is owned by five or fewer people.

Activists had warned that if Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood Specialties — the businesses that challenged Obamacare — could use their "sincerely held religious beliefs" to deny contraception to employees, then they might use the same power to deny health care to transgender people or might withhold coverage for HIV and AIDS treatment to LGBT employees.

Birth control for women is a lot like pre-exposure prophylaxis, or PReP, for gay men, for example. Truvada PReP is a pill taken daily that prevents HIV-negative men from contracting the disease during sex with other men (it can also be used by HIV-negative partners in heterosexual relationships). Hobby Lobby argued that offering coverage for certain types of contraception made them complicit in what amounted to abortion. Obviously, the Christian-owned chain of craft stores is also opposed to gay people having sex with each other, and likely wouldn't want to be complicit in that, either.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/2014/06/30/why-lgbt-americans-are-leery-supreme-courts-hobby-lobby-ruling

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why LGBT Americans Are Leery of Supreme Court's Hobby Lobby Ruling (Original Post) William769 Jun 2014 OP
damn right , they should be as should every single person except maybe the .001% hollysmom Jun 2014 #1
I read the opinion customerserviceguy Jun 2014 #2
Think about the context. The fired/not hired employee will have to bring claim of discrimination Justice Jun 2014 #3
True customerserviceguy Jun 2014 #4
I've had to work for a lot of people I didn't care much for... Styx Jun 2014 #8
true dat and welcome to du dembotoz Jul 2014 #24
Thats not going to stop it from happening and have to go through the courts again. William769 Jun 2014 #5
Oh, we're definitely set up for more court battles customerserviceguy Jun 2014 #6
Kennedy is NO "moderate"!!! Let's put that sham lie to rest, now, shall we? blkmusclmachine Jul 2014 #20
Agreed. Conservative with a tiny mix of libertarian on social issues at best MillennialDem Jul 2014 #21
Whether you want to call him a moderate or not customerserviceguy Jul 2014 #25
Look like it's already being discussed. William769 Jun 2014 #12
A few tweets from some twits customerserviceguy Jul 2014 #14
Oh, well, since Alito said it, then it's just as good as his word on the Smith decision. No worries. genwah Jul 2014 #23
The Court could rule.... cynzke Jul 2014 #27
That question is on the verge of becoming moot customerserviceguy Jul 2014 #31
Sadly, I think this is absolutely right. brer cat Jun 2014 #7
Also... Styx Jun 2014 #9
Good point, Styx. brer cat Jun 2014 #10
Thank You. Styx Jun 2014 #11
SSM loses at the Supreme Court next summer, 5-4. blkmusclmachine Jul 2014 #13
Nothing would surprise me davidpdx Jul 2014 #15
They should first be leery because they have mothers, sisters, daughters frazzled Jul 2014 #16
Some tweets William769 Jul 2014 #17
They're totally correct to be leery about it. calimary Jul 2014 #18
I predict that SSM will lose, 5-4 blkmusclmachine Jul 2014 #19
Trans people already have to pay out of pocket for the most part anyway MillennialDem Jul 2014 #22
Kick JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #26
Well Said...I stand with you on this, also.. KoKo Jul 2014 #28
I had no idea about the PReP pill Marrah_G Jul 2014 #29
Because they have at least two brain cells to rub together? TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #30

hollysmom

(5,946 posts)
1. damn right , they should be as should every single person except maybe the .001%
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 05:05 PM
Jun 2014

who don't have to work for a living.

Edited because apparently I can't proof read before posting

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
2. I read the opinion
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 05:35 PM
Jun 2014

and I don't recall sexual orientation being mentioned in the majority opinion.

I see that Anthony Kennedy took great pains to write a separate opinion that indicated he was not willing to go along with anything other than the issue before him. Being as he's been the swing vote for gay rights on the SCOTUS, I'm fairly certain that he will not allow religious reasons for closely-held corporations to engage in any sort of discrimination based on sexual orientation, and he was issuing a warning shot to anyone who was tempted to do just that.

Justice

(7,182 posts)
3. Think about the context. The fired/not hired employee will have to bring claim of discrimination
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 06:43 PM
Jun 2014

and expose his or her life to scrunity not to mentioned fund the litigation as the company defends itself.

Not going to happen easily.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
4. True
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 06:46 PM
Jun 2014

But I would imagine that companies run by religious zealots have ways of finding out what they think is your sexual orientation before they even hire you. In any case, why would a progressive person even work for such a bigoted employer in the first place? The profits from their labor would just go to spewing religious twaddle about the inerrancy of the Bible, especially the parts that are used against gay people.

 

Styx

(30 posts)
8. I've had to work for a lot of people I didn't care much for...
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 07:28 PM
Jun 2014

To finance my food and shelter addictions.

dembotoz

(16,734 posts)
24. true dat and welcome to du
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 10:40 PM
Jul 2014

the question as to whether an employer is filled with right wing fruit cakes usually does not come up during the interview.
Perhaps i just never had a good way to phrase it.

William769

(55,124 posts)
5. Thats not going to stop it from happening and have to go through the courts again.
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 06:47 PM
Jun 2014

We've been down this road before.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
6. Oh, we're definitely set up for more court battles
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 06:50 PM
Jun 2014

But Kennedy is clearly the swing vote, and he's drawn his line in the sand. I'm not surprised that reich wingers don't see it there, but when they lose a case on sexual orientation a year or two or three from now, they'll figure out that they should have gotten the point way back when.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
25. Whether you want to call him a moderate or not
Wed Jul 2, 2014, 07:19 AM
Jul 2014

Clearly, he's been the swing vote in nearly all the 5-4 decisions of the current (and recent) compositions of the Court.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
14. A few tweets from some twits
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 07:14 AM
Jul 2014

are nothing serious at this point. Will some fundies overreach? Sure, but they'll be slapped down long before they have a chance to get a case before the SCOTUS.

Since my earlier comments about Kennedy's warning, I've re-read the opinion, and Alito wrote that no one should use the opinion to think that discrimination will be supported for religious reasons.

cynzke

(1,254 posts)
27. The Court could rule....
Wed Jul 2, 2014, 09:37 AM
Jul 2014

in favor of the corporation easily in these cases if the corporation wasn't denying LGBT employees access to health insurance, JUST PAYING FOR IT. Denying a job would be out right discrimination but refusing to pay for services (or retirement benefits) based on a religious objection could fall in line with the current ruling.

customerserviceguy

(25,183 posts)
31. That question is on the verge of becoming moot
Thu Jul 3, 2014, 07:18 AM
Jul 2014

We've clearly reached a tipping point in the US, same gender marriage is on the way to formally acquiring the same status as so-called traditional marriage, and Anthony Kennedy will be the SCOTUS Justice who finally puts the last nail in the coffin of marriage discrimination. I believe him (and the others in the majority) who warn that this decision is not to be used for the purposes of advancing discrimination.

It may well take a test case to prove that, and it wouldn't surprise me if someone managed to bring one, and the SCOTUS denied certiorari in a situation where the appellate court ruled against a firm or person doing the discrimination.

 

Styx

(30 posts)
9. Also...
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 07:33 PM
Jun 2014

Another thing I can see them objecting to, what about HPV vaccine for teenage girls? After all, abstinence 'til marriage eliminates the need, right? HPV is a disease we could wipe out like polio, but we can't because some people don't want to acknowledge that their kids might have sex.

brer cat

(24,401 posts)
10. Good point, Styx.
Mon Jun 30, 2014, 07:38 PM
Jun 2014

Teenage girls need to stay pure so they for sure don't need the vaccine.

Welcome to DU. Glad to have you with us.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
15. Nothing would surprise me
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 09:31 AM
Jul 2014

I cross my fingers everyday that Scalia or Thomas will die so Obama can put another justice on the court.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
16. They should first be leery because they have mothers, sisters, daughters
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 10:58 AM
Jul 2014

Can we please put that as a first cause? Because everyone seems to be dismissing the real impact on women that has already occurred.

Gay men and women have daughters, who may grow up to be heterosexual, and who need access to birth control. We are all in this together, folks. Support the rights women, and women will continue to support the rights of LGBT Americans. We have to help each other.

William769

(55,124 posts)
17. Some tweets
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 11:01 AM
Jul 2014

Matt Barber @jmattbarber
Follow
#HobbyLobby may help protect businesses from those pushing counter-biblical #LGBT lifestyle & anti-Christian agenda http://po.st/VfGRid


11:37 AM - 30 Jun 2014



Matt Barber @jmattbarber
Follow
#HobbyLobby bodes fairly well for freedom of association in context of #lgbt immorality & religious freedom http://po.st/dppPJd #tcot #p2


11:34 AM - 30 Jun 2014



Peter LaBarbera @PeterLaBarbera
Follow
LGBT Left has been winning in the courts, but now we have hope that SCOTUS will honor small biz conscience exemptions on homosexuality #tcot


12:34 PM - 30 Jun 2014


http://www.advocate.com/politics/2014/06/30/after-hobby-lobby-right-wingers-pray-gays-are-next

calimary

(80,693 posts)
18. They're totally correct to be leery about it.
Tue Jul 1, 2014, 02:56 PM
Jul 2014

Very few even among our side view the enemy as the relentless, resourceful, sneaky-ass operatives they are. Do you think for one instant that their side will accept the purported "narrowness" of this ruling? Do you think for a single nanosecond that they'll let it rest there? Why of course! The very same way they "accepted" that Roe v Wade was settled law! How'd that work out for everybody?

JustAnotherGen

(31,681 posts)
26. Kick
Wed Jul 2, 2014, 08:34 AM
Jul 2014

And they should be! Plus 1000 on everything you've written here.

They are using a death by a thousand tiny cuts strategy here.

Women's rights, civili rights for minorities, GLBT rights - and we are all connected via equal pay and voting rights.

I don't post in the GLBT groups at DU because to me - a heterosexual woman - that's your place William to connect with others walking your same path in life.

But don't ever doubt that a constant poster on the AA group or HOF doesn't not see my ally in having pain inflicted on us. Their goal is to punish us ALL for what we are.


I stand wit you.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
28. Well Said...I stand with you on this, also..
Wed Jul 2, 2014, 10:36 AM
Jul 2014

It opens the door for employers "Right to Discriminate" in hiring. That the employer could have rights to hire, fire or deny health care coverage to an employee on the basis of their "Religious" beliefs about abortion opens a door that that should stay shut--or we are in danger of losing what's left of our Constitution.

That "Hobby Lobby" (according to "MoJo" article) invests and profits from the very companies who sell the products they want to deny their employees the use of shows the conflict in their ruling. "Supremes" should have checked that out....BEFORE ruling. Although "hypocrisy" is probably not on their radar.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
29. I had no idea about the PReP pill
Wed Jul 2, 2014, 10:37 AM
Jul 2014

Thank you for posting that and yes the ruling is scary as hell for so many reasons.

TheKentuckian

(24,934 posts)
30. Because they have at least two brain cells to rub together?
Wed Jul 2, 2014, 10:48 PM
Jul 2014

If you aren't dubious and concerned then you are stupid or shortsighted or lacking any imagination or are complicit and happy (for now, they will get you too).

Shit, this even goes for straight, white males of popular religions because once the precedents are set and advanced they will spread beyond the religious crap and go directly to controlling us all, everyone who isn't sitting on a dragon's hoard.

Women and gays are just footholds in the long war. They will curb the fuck out of everyone in due course, picking us all off one by one.

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