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whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:08 PM Oct 2015

The Hillary Clinton College Plan: Work Harder Poor People

Why is it that every time she opens her mouth, something stupid jumps out of it?

Just why?

Hillary Clinton has a plan to reform how America pays for college. But there’s something strange about how she talks about it.

I have a heavy emphasis on the paying down the debt and different ways to help the students do exactly that. I also believe that people who are getting an education need to have some responsibility for their education. So I have a plan that will make it possible for anybody attending a four-year college or university to avoid having to borrow money for tuition, but we are still going to have to expect the students to do their part. I believe in the students working, you know, ten hours a week is what I recommend. So I think that my plan is really aimed at addressing the issue issues that I hear young Americans talking to me about.

She says under her plan poor kids will have to work ten hours a week, because America should “expect the students to do their part.”

Because, you know $7 an hour at Subway goes along way toward that $100,000 tuition. Gotta watch out for those lazy poor people. We all know how shiftless they are.

In fact, it may not be a policy stance at all, but just political move to make her seem more moderate. See, Sanders wants to give socialist giveaways (free stuff!) and she wants to make sure people are working. In truth, there’s no reason to ensure people will work; poor people already work while they’re attending college, and always have.


http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/college_guide/blog/the_hillary_clinton_college_pl.php
44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Hillary Clinton College Plan: Work Harder Poor People (Original Post) whereisjustice Oct 2015 OP
Another thread to trash. leftofcool Oct 2015 #1
And another insipid reply from Team Hillary. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #2
Another thread to K&R. Autumn Oct 2015 #33
Working could cost more money jfern Oct 2015 #3
Tuition would be free at in state colleges. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #11
From the comment whereisjustice Oct 2015 #4
Going to college is a full time job. TheProgressive Oct 2015 #5
so many students have issues w health, including mental health. mopinko Oct 2015 #8
What on Earth are you talking about? TheProgressive Oct 2015 #9
if you couldnt work your ten hours, wouldnt you need to prove it? mopinko Oct 2015 #27
Huh? What? Stand and Fight Oct 2015 #38
I know what you are saying - I see it in hyper competitive high school kids now, cut throat, pressur whereisjustice Oct 2015 #40
And where are they supposed to work, and how are they supposed to get there. CharlotteVale Oct 2015 #6
Lemme grab my bootstraps Catherina Oct 2015 #7
Bootstraps make a tasty and nutritious broth when steeped overnight in poverty juice Fumesucker Oct 2015 #14
What makes you think poor kids don't want to work? BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #10
I could pay for most of my years tuition by summer job, she is so out of date whereisjustice Oct 2015 #12
You do realize in-state tuition would be free, right? BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #13
Sanders plan is tuition-free public higher ed to every qualified student, and unlike Hillary.... whereisjustice Oct 2015 #16
They would make money and get free college. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #20
Forcing poor kids to work, while rich kids do not, is the dumbest fucking idea from a whereisjustice Oct 2015 #21
Bernie's plan would literally pay for that rich kids tuition. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #22
By your logic, poor kids should have to work their way through High School because, you know... whereisjustice Oct 2015 #23
Oh jeez. Forget it. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #24
That's always a good idea when you're losing the argument. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #32
How much student debt are you carrying? Left Ear Oct 2015 #15
pulling themselves up working nights at Papa Johns, no doubt. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #17
Work 10 hours a week just as she did... not. cpompilo Oct 2015 #18
Newt Gingrich Stands By Plan To Have Poor Students Work As Janitors whereisjustice Oct 2015 #19
Are there no workhouses? Catherina Oct 2015 #26
So only the middle class students should work to help pay for their college? Vattel Oct 2015 #25
Graduate without tuition debt, for 10 hours' work a week. Sparkly Oct 2015 #28
It is applied at every student, then it would be fair AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #30
Better than it is now. Sparkly Oct 2015 #31
So they are poor because they aren't doing their part? AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #29
She talks a lot about how she 'wants people to be responsible' as if she is in charge of people or sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #34
Good idea. It worked so well for welfare reform! mhatrw Oct 2015 #35
Just like prison sentencing reform, Wall Street reform, trade deal reform and ... wait for it whereisjustice Oct 2015 #42
Third Wayers and Republicans want those kids to work. They'll increase labor competition Zorra Oct 2015 #36
I wish I could recommend this post a thousand times. hifiguy Oct 2015 #39
Great post! Summarized it nicely! whereisjustice Oct 2015 #41
I was working 40 hours a week by my senior year Recursion Oct 2015 #37
Let K&R this for ya. 99Forever Oct 2015 #43
And all the far right people, too :-) whereisjustice Oct 2015 #44

jfern

(5,204 posts)
3. Working could cost more money
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:27 PM
Oct 2015

Because tuition, room, and board are fixed expenses, and with more work you can take fewer classes, and so might need to take an extra year as a result.

For example, take the cost of fees and tuition for a year at the University of California. It's $30k a year for in state. $7 x 10 hours a week for the semester adds up to around $10k a year. Not much more than the $30k for an extra year. And then there's the lost salary you could make the 5th year.

Truly insulting from someone who thought she was dead broke after leaving the Presidency and gets paid $400k a speech.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
4. From the comment
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:28 PM
Oct 2015
Remember Bill Clinton's 'New Covenant' speeches in 1991? This is exactly from that playbook. You rhetorically match a 'responsibility' to every 'right.' It's supposed to be a way to sell liberal programs to swing voters who like social programs but worry about moochers. Do they still exist in large numbers? What do I know, but it sounds about, say, 24 years out of date to me.


And in this way, Hillary is enabling the far right wing by constantly leading with and legitimizing their fears in every utterance from her entitled, conservative pie hole.

She knows those social programs are filled with lazy leftists so she's gonna make sure that the poor pull their weight.

Instead of calling BULLSHIT on the conservative memes, Hillary cuddles up by being a hero protecting capitalism and the free market against lazy poor people who need to do more work.
 

TheProgressive

(1,656 posts)
5. Going to college is a full time job.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:30 PM
Oct 2015

We should not and must not ask our college students to go to school full time and have a job to boot.

mopinko

(70,081 posts)
8. so many students have issues w health, including mental health.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:44 PM
Oct 2015

do they have to turn over their medical records to prove that school is already enough for them to cope with? including psyche records, which as supposed to be ultra-confidential?

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
40. I know what you are saying - I see it in hyper competitive high school kids now, cut throat, pressur
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:46 PM
Oct 2015

to be perfect in every way - captain of the football team, all AP classes, winner of the science fair, on and on and on

This is how it is in India, China, Japan. You are groomed as a single individual without any connection to the world around you. No sense of common good, everything is for your own advancement. The pressure is intense. NYT ran a recent article about women committing suicide on campus over pressure to be perfect.

What the fuck makes us think these systems are so much better? Look at these nations' social problems from corrupt government with massive poverty to filthy living conditions and then tell me all the smart people are in Asia because their test scores are so good.

We are going in the WRONG direction.

CharlotteVale

(2,717 posts)
6. And where are they supposed to work, and how are they supposed to get there.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:32 PM
Oct 2015

Sounds like Hillary is pandering in advance.

 

BlueWaveDem

(403 posts)
10. What makes you think poor kids don't want to work?
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:47 PM
Oct 2015

I worked through high school and college and now law school.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
12. I could pay for most of my years tuition by summer job, she is so out of date
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 08:55 PM
Oct 2015

with the idea of a adding legislation to require the poor to get a job to pay for the benefit.

She is also promoting a right wing meme that poor people are lazy and they need to be required to work (by law) for benefits.

In fact, as the article points out, 80% already do work out of necessity.

It is truly a stupefying example of right-wing triangulation.

Now - the other difference is, after working and struggling through high school and college and ending up in debt, the jobs waiting at graduation are going to China and India and soon to be Vietnam.

Thanks to more conservative memes about Americans not working hard enough, nor smart enough.

Hillary is choosing her issues carefully. We see the side she's on and it is not the side of working Americans.

She's stuck in the 1960s Goldwater glow.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
16. Sanders plan is tuition-free public higher ed to every qualified student, and unlike Hillary....
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 09:10 PM
Oct 2015

he doesn't punch poor people with a STUPID remark about forcing poor students to pull their weight.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
21. Forcing poor kids to work, while rich kids do not, is the dumbest fucking idea from a
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 09:29 PM
Oct 2015

Democrat since liberating Iraq, Syria and Libya by massive violence in order to punish innocent people for the leadership we directly or indirectly propped up for decades.

 

BlueWaveDem

(403 posts)
22. Bernie's plan would literally pay for that rich kids tuition.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 09:37 PM
Oct 2015

And again, you're assuming people both rich and poor don't want to work. I am living it. No one doesn't want to work.

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
23. By your logic, poor kids should have to work their way through High School because, you know...
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 09:47 PM
Oct 2015

conservative values.

 

Left Ear

(81 posts)
15. How much student debt are you carrying?
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 09:03 PM
Oct 2015

You say you're in law school. You should have a debt in the six figures by now.

Good luck paying that off under Clinton's plan.


whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
19. Newt Gingrich Stands By Plan To Have Poor Students Work As Janitors
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 09:19 PM
Oct 2015

I knew I heard this idea before... Hillary paints lipstick on a pig.

Newt Gingrich Defends Call For Poor Kids To Work As Janitors During 2012 South Carolina GOP Debate
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/16/newt-gingrich-kids-janitors-south-carolina-debate_n_1209476.html



 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
25. So only the middle class students should work to help pay for their college?
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 10:09 PM
Oct 2015

I don't see any problem with students working 10 hours per week to help pay for their college.

Sparkly

(24,149 posts)
28. Graduate without tuition debt, for 10 hours' work a week.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:29 PM
Oct 2015

No tuition debt; lower costs of living; free community college... And working 10 hours a week is a problem?

The only access like that has been the GI Bill, which took a lot more than 10 hours a week and was not a voluntary commitment until relatively recently.

I don't see anything here to complain about.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
30. It is applied at every student, then it would be fair
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:48 PM
Oct 2015

But only applying it to poor students is not fair. In fact it's insulting.

Sparkly

(24,149 posts)
31. Better than it is now.
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:55 PM
Oct 2015

Now poor students have to work a lot more than 10 hours a week to afford what rich kids' parents cover.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
29. So they are poor because they aren't doing their part?
Thu Oct 1, 2015, 11:46 PM
Oct 2015

Seriously?

This stems from the GOPs "Poor people are poor because they are lazy" position.

Shameful if true.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
34. She talks a lot about how she 'wants people to be responsible' as if she is in charge of people or
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:27 AM
Oct 2015

something. It's condescending and arrogant. What we want is that this government invest in its young people rather than in WARS, I read today that she thinks 'it's time to start talking about the business opportunities provided by the Iraq War'.

I would not take blood money like that if you gave it to me for nothing.

She made similar comments about making people, mostly poor people of course, 'less dependent' when she pushed that awful Welfare Bill that has so harmed women and children.

So condescending and so lacking in understanding of what 'responsibility' means.

I wonder if she feels the same way about holding her friends, like Jaimie Dimon responsible?

I'm so glad I don't have to try to defend any of this. You simply can't.

mhatrw

(10,786 posts)
35. Good idea. It worked so well for welfare reform!
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:01 AM
Oct 2015

This will both insure that rich kids have the scholastic advantage they so richly deserve, while supplying a huge new source of cheap, reliable, subsidized labor to giant retail and fast food chains!

Keep wages low!

whereisjustice

(2,941 posts)
42. Just like prison sentencing reform, Wall Street reform, trade deal reform and ... wait for it
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:54 PM
Oct 2015

email reform.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
36. Third Wayers and Republicans want those kids to work. They'll increase labor competition
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 11:04 AM
Oct 2015

and drive wages down, making it even more difficult for heads of households to feed their families.


And, desperate, busy people make better wage slaves and more obedient citizens, and wage slaves are good for increased corporate profits.


An added bonus for the neoliberal Third Way and Republican capitalists is that working 10 hrs a week will force most students to spend more cash just going to work than they will earn. And the amount of sheer waste that will generate more profit will be substantial.


Once again, all good for corporate profits, and keeping people in line. Busy people don't have time to think. People who don't think don't question authority.


Crush all the life and hope out of the people, boost profits for the the 1%.


It's like Bill Clinton's work for welfare plan!


The system works!

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
37. I was working 40 hours a week by my senior year
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 12:32 PM
Oct 2015

I took that to be a way of reducing the amount of work poor students do; ten hours sounds like the student aid jobs.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
43. Let K&R this for ya.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:00 PM
Oct 2015

To quote a particularly annoying person of little consequence:

"You seem to be pissing off all the right people."

(And keeping true to form: )

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