The US case for 'regime change' in Syria is weak in light of our callous neglect of Libyan anarchy.

Supporting the rebels is criminal as they are the ones ethnically cleansing Syria. There are no moderates and nobody believes that lie. Assad had been protecting minorities until this rebellion.

Fiorina's bellicosity is also way over the top. No surprise McCain want war straight away.

and that Hillary is the natural extension of the Obama legacy, and so we should support Hillary? Where did they all go?

approval.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5125522

Look at how she non-answered on Meet the Press:


-----
Chuck Todd Asks Hillary About Libya

I don't see a Pulitzer Prize for that interview in his future. Then again, that's not what Todd is striving for, is it?

he showed the video that probably very few have ever seen. Might have awakened a few minds as to her "character" issues.

Some of us have drifted off to International News from Internet Sources (Underground) if one can find them and IF you can get an "uninterrupted feed" given our weak internet connections where some of us live in the USA (Why is That?) ....or one finds sources that they find verifiable and then ....from time to time...checks out the USA Media filled with Commercials touting Big Pharma, War, Consumer Consumption/Celebrity Porn and Death Destruction and Crazies here in the USA.

Turning it ALL OFF...means one can't connect with those they need to deal with who watch all of that or TUNE OUT and become an "Outcast."

What a World we Live in These Days. and

"We Dems...Just Gotta Keep on Truckin'! as a long time Vanished DU'er used to say in their posts many years ago. They were Correct. That Poster is gone but others have Kept the Cause for Dems to Keep Working!

I Keep on with "Hope" and "Truckin'" as many here still continue to do!

Thanks!

I guess she wants to be the Last Woman U.S. President.

This just points out how bad her judgment and policy prescriptions have always been. We would have always had to contend with the fact that both Russia and Iran have long-standing ties with Syria.

Anybody who has advocated heavy U.S./NATO intervention in Syria now or in the past apparently doesn't understand that Putin and/or Iran would simply boost their involvement as necessary to save their buddy--like they're doing now.

CBS NEWS INTERVIEW with SOS Clinton:

Hillary Clinton on Gaddafi: We came, we saw, he died

That was her body language during her "We came, we saw, he died" segment of her Leslie Stahl interview. Big smiles all around.

I don't watch 60 Minutes much, anymore.

us more deeply involved in Syria. She has not learned
one thing from the Libya adventure and its results it
seems.

It's not ok for Hillary to want to stop genocide in Syria?

When she refused to break from the administration about the Keystone pipeline and the TPP it was because she had to respect her former boss.

Once a hawk always a hawk.

It's a despicable abuse of power and betrayal of trust to send men and women to fight unnecessary and illegal wars.

Bernie supports our troops, he didn't vote to give Bush the authorization to send them to war. Voting to fund wars that our troops are fighting is in no fucking way voting for wars. You people are really twisting to tack the wars on Bernie. Any politician who would not fund our troops in a war zone that our politicians, like Hillary, voted to send them to would be a real chicken shit. Bernie's no chicken shit. he voted to support our troops.

Voted to fund all the wars. In 2003 he supported the resolution that gave support to George W. Bush in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He also supports Israel’s aggressive Middle East policies against Palestinian statehood and he supported HR 282, the Iran Freedom Support Act, which was similar to the resolutions leading to the Iraq War. And I believe he's also still all in for the trillion dollar F35 disaster.

...not

Christ! This is such a bullshit argument.

Remember when US troops were trying to shield their vehicles in Iraq with silver paper from gum wrappers because we went to war "with the army you have, not the army you'd like?"

No member of Congress with a conscience would refuse to fund AFTER Congress put troops in harm's way. It's vile.

Tell me which facts in my post I got wrong.

It's practically criminal not to fund after troops have been put in harm's way.\

Vile post.

Which part was deceptive?

We all know that. The only your bullshit attempts to portray Sanders as more likely to go to war than Hillary is likely to get you is ignores from people who care about good faith discussion.

Not sure what you think you're accomplishing here. We were not born yesterday.

for the Iraq War. Claiming Bernie is more of a "warrior" than she is is pure bull.

Tell me again how you're so straightforward. BTW, don't try to get away with using facebook as a source.

Last edited Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:43 PM - Edit history (1)

Hillary's brother in arms.

is a very timely book title for just this situation.

"Once a hawk always a hawk." Sound logic there!

nt

I'm not defending that poster.

There is a brutal civil war, with casualties roughly divided between regime forces (100,000), insurgents (100,000), and civilians (60-70,000).

Assad represents the Alawite (Shia) minority in Syria, along with other minority groups there, and secular Syrians. The jihadis consider the Alawites to be heretics and apostates, and we've already seen how they treat other minorities.

This is an existential fight for the Syrian regime and the people it represents.

"All Our Money is for WARS!"

The rest of us deal with "Austerity Programs" by the Federal Reserve ....Keeping America Safe from Wall Street Plunders since FDR tried to Reform that System.

Took until Bill Clinton and the DLC's Misguided Meddling to Give Wall Street and MIC what they needed to do a Second Plunder and the Misguided Revamp of the Dem Party came to Fruition with the "Democratic Leadership Conference" supposedly created to stop Dem Losses in Elections which ended up with "Unintended (or Intended?) consequences?

I was a huge Bill Clinton supporter and bought into the DLC until I saw what it did and what Bill's lack of morality did to throw him into the arms of the NeoCons and Wall Street MIC influences.

It took me a long time to see that because I was one of those reading Joe Conason and others Defending the Clintons against the well organized RW Rove and Evangelical Christian Uprisings back in those times.

But...Monica Lewinsky was REAL and what Bill did was Real. And, his Record as President shows that his LEGACY left Deregulation and Corruption that FDR and the Dem Coalition had been able to fight against for Decades with Union Organization and 60's Revolution against War, Corruption, Senator Joe McCarthy's Red Scare and rooting out of Creatives in the MSM who warned us against what would be coming.

We have a chance left to Save our Country with Bernie Sanders. Will we Take It? Or will we vote for the "Old Regime" who promised Much but has Left Us on the LEFT...Bankrupt?

From a "Reformed Clinton Supporter" who learned that the DLC was Misguided and Corrupt and don't want to fall for this rehashed NeoLib/NeoCon kind of Politics ever again.

It's TIME FOR "REAL CHANGE."

....

Seems a little difficult to enforce without punching Putin in the nose...and getting punched back, etc.

WTF could she possibly be thinking?

Of course she wants a no-fly zone, it provides a good chance of getting into a hot war.

and last President of the United States if we got into a war with Russia over Syria.

The universe is a different place in 2015 than it was two decades ago when we ruled the world, and could still plausibly claim to have more or less good intentions for it.

like that. Causw warz and shit like that. Those munitions pay big dividends... to certain people.

In November 2016, when she's the nominee , you'll vote for her.

Thank you for the inspiration, this utterly stupid proclamation.

Key leaders from around the world are present at the United Nations this week to discuss critical issues; one of the most pressing is Syria. How did we get to this point with half the Syrian population (almost 12 million) displaced and under-populated but huge areas of Syria now controlled by ISIS, Al Qaeda (Nusra) and other fanatical fundamentalist groups?

Hillary Clinton’s 2014 book Hard Choices reveals important information about the first years of the Syrian conflict and how we got where we are today. Clinton’s account conveys the perception, priorities and bias at the top level of the Obama Administration. It describes policy differences within the administration and the common assumptions and goals which have led to the current disastrous situation.

Clinton’s chapter on Syria is titled “Syria: A Wicked Problem”. It documents how the US and regional allies tried to overthrow the Damascus government. The “wicked problem” is that there was no easy way. Attack directly? Train proxy army? Supply the armed opposition with weapons secretly or publicly? Apply “No Fly Zone”? Bomb Damascus? These are the question considered. The dominance of neoconservative mentality in Washington and western media is demonstrated by the fact that foreign demands that “Assad must go” are rarely questioned despite the fact it’s in clear violation of international law and the UN Charter.

Clinton’s unwillingness to let go of the “regime change” requirement regarding a sovereign state, coupled with a moralistic but biased outrage, suggests someone who does not respect international law and could be dangerous as President: hypocritical, prejudiced and self-righteous.

Following are specific points of interest from “Syria: A Wicked Problem”.......................


http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/30/the-wicked-war-on-syria-hillary-clinton-in-her-own-words/

As the OP pointed out, the Russians are flying missions against the rebels we support. Almost certainly, we would shoot at Russian planes, whether purposely or by mistake. We may have to let Syria go, in spite of neocon assertions to the contrary. There is only so much we can do, a lesson we should have learned long ago.

What is US endgame in Syria ?

Assad being deposed ?

If that the case not gonna happen unless he steps down on his own

see who is best fit to command our armed forces. Hill knows what she's doing.

and soundly rejecting it.

Meanwhile back at the debates.......

with Russia. Yeah let her rattle her sabers in the debate.

Address to the Nation on the Invasion of Iraq (January 16, 1991)



George H. W. Bush


Just 2 hours ago, allied air forces began an attack on military targets in Iraq and Kuwait. These attacks continue as I speak. Ground forces are not engaged.

This conflict started August 2d when the dictator of Iraq invaded a small and helpless neighbor. Kuwait—a member of the Arab League and a member of the United Nations—was crushed; its people, brutalized. Five months ago, Saddam Hussein started this cruel war against Kuwait. Tonight, the battle has been joined.

transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike

CLINTON: Good evening.

Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

10:16 P.M. EST

THE PRESIDENT: My fellow citizens, at this hour, American and coalition forces are in the early stages of military operations to disarm Iraq, to free its people and to defend the world from grave danger.


On my orders, coalition forces have begun striking selected targets of military importance to undermine Saddam Hussein's ability to wage war. These are opening stages of what will be a broad and concerted campaign. More than 35 countries are giving crucial support -- from the use of naval and air bases, to help with intelligence and logistics, to the deployment of combat units. Every nation in this coalition has chosen to bear the duty and share the honor of serving in our common defense.

Bookmarking for the NEXT time someone compares Hillary to Bernie and calls him a war hawk.

where to find it.

Oh wait, it got 77 votes in the Senate.

Hmmm.....

weapons inspections in Iraq? Different vote outcome.

I was so horrified by the speeches and votes to give it to him I was stunned.

Much of their IRW was based on war as a last resort. Had they known Bush would run Blix and the inspectors out, they would have reconsidered.

Any vote for the Iraq war is indefensible, afaic.

I was glad they voted that way. What's done is done, no politician or keyboard poster or Hans Blix had the advantage of actually knowing how devious Bush/Cheney could be.

Bmus, I'll be out for a few hours so I won't be able to respond anymore 'till later tonight (pacific time).

Until later then.

There it is....well worth the watch..

One more.

But war with Russia would be more than your garden variety of war.

Her leadership is advocating at act of war. And an incredibly stupid one at that.

It's pretty pathetic that the Russians are actually coming across as the adults in the situation and USA can't seem to get its act together.

The whole situation was a major foreign policy blunder. The US never should have instigated and fueled civil war in Syria.

I think Mrs. Clinton was closely aligned with that failed policy.

She's done enough and now it's time for someone else.

Last edited Fri Oct 2, 2015, 09:14 PM - Edit history (1)

And redemption for the "Clinton Image?"

The "Hell With the Rest of Us!"

That's what worries me.

I hope we have a repeat of 2008 and dodge it again or we are SOL.