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MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:41 PM Oct 2015

If you're thinking about not voting for Clinton,

if she becomes the nominee, here's something I hope you'll consider:

Outcomes are important. They truly are. There is an outcome for every presidential election. Unlike our Congressional and Senate elections, every state is involved in the presidential election. Time has demonstrated that either a Democrat or a Republican wins the presidency. That's not going to change in 2016.

So, there will be an outcome of the election in November. In January of 2017, either a Democrat or a Republican will move into the White house and serve as the chief executive of the US. Personally, I prefer that a Democrat holds that office. In that case, the limited power of the President will be in Democratic Party hands. The President does do a few things things on his or her own, like appoint federal judges, and not just SCOTUS justices. The President also can send the military pretty much anywhere. He or she also holds the power of the veto, which can keep a Republican Congress from running rough-shod over the Constitution.

The President can also propose many things. If Congress will pass his proposals, those things can happen. All too often, they do not, especially when Congress is in Republican hands. There's not much a President can do about that. It's up to us to send him or her a Congress that will do progressive things.

So, you may not feel that you can vote for Hillary Clinton. But, I'd ask that you consider the outcome. There will be a Democrat or a Republican in the White House for four years. I know which I'd prefer. Please ask yourself which you'd prefer and help make that happen. It's not a matter of getting everything we want. We never will. It's a matter of outcomes for four years.

I think it's worth thinking about. Really. Voting for the Democratic nominee will produce a better outcome, whoever that nominee is.

146 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
If you're thinking about not voting for Clinton, (Original Post) MineralMan Oct 2015 OP
I am not thinking about it. I have decided. I will not vote for Hillary. peacebird Oct 2015 #1
Same. n/t Chan790 Oct 2015 #3
I"m very sorry to read that. MineralMan Oct 2015 #5
It really doesn't matter if you're in a solid blue or solid red state. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #7
If you choose not to vote - still you have voted! liberal N proud Oct 2015 #33
That wasn't my point. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #88
I have decided that, too. 840high Oct 2015 #29
Same here. <nt> AtomicKitten Oct 2015 #42
Neither will I. MissDeeds Oct 2015 #56
I just cannot abandon my conscience and vote for someone I don't agree with Left Ear Oct 2015 #99
That would result in +1 vote for a hard-right GOP candidate. Hortensis Oct 2015 #138
Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #139
Agree with your sense of responsibility now, Left Ear. But then what, Hortensis Oct 2015 #140
I will vote Democrat on all down ticket races and I will vote for Bernie. I will not vote Republican GoneFishin Oct 2015 #130
By that you mean you'll vote for Bernie if he's the nominee and Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #133
Sure. Whatever works for you. GoneFishin Oct 2015 #134
And if you're thinking about not voting for Sanders if he becomes the nominee? SheilaT Oct 2015 #2
I will vote for the Democratic nominee. MineralMan Oct 2015 #4
Have yet to see a 2016 DU HRC supporter say they won't vote for the Dem nominee emulatorloo Oct 2015 #8
Neither have I Andy823 Oct 2015 #81
Can't remember who it was... Lancero Oct 2015 #84
I have: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #115
Here's one that won't vote for Bernie neverforget Oct 2015 #124
So that's two who won't vote for Bernie. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #125
or just continue to deny or neverforget Oct 2015 #127
Deny or ignore the proof. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #128
Every Clinton supporter i have seen here has said they will support the nominee. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #12
Exactly. Skidmore Oct 2015 #46
neither group is a monolith. Each is composed of individuals. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #61
Seems like you are making e cuses for Sanders supporters who are puma to me. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #64
No, because it's not my job to answer for other people. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #67
Yes but we would get over it. Your side not so much. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #68
My 'side' is composed of one human being. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #70
Some of your fellow Sanders supporters are open about the fact they won't take it well if he does hrmjustin Oct 2015 #71
Like I said, here's me talking to one of them- Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #72
I am not asking you to do anything and I appreciate the op's honesty. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #73
Okay, well, you cant have it both ways. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #74
Has any hrc supporter on this site said they are going puma? No! hrmjustin Oct 2015 #75
I think perhaps you should go back and read what I actually said. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #78
You said... hrmjustin Oct 2015 #79
We will have to wait and see. That's my point, there. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #83
I am not asking anything of you. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #86
Good, because I don't play well with others anyway. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #89
No I won't "get over it." 99Forever Oct 2015 #126
I keep hearing this, but have heard no one say that its her turn. juajen Oct 2015 #112
You're absolutely right, you are. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #132
And they will go into the booth and vote for the fake moderate TeaPubliKlan by the millions TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #91
So we are liars? Am I a liar? hrmjustin Oct 2015 #92
Not that I recall but there are plenty that are poo flingers with little concern for truth TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #101
The PUMAs were wrong. For just the reasons explained in the top post. eallen Oct 2015 #45
Pumas are not hiding their views and to be fair I respect honesty. hrmjustin Oct 2015 #6
I'll vote for her in the GE if she is the nominee. aidbo Oct 2015 #9
Who cares if people say they won't vote for Hillary if she's the nominee? Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #10
Like I said in another thread: Bernie or bust? BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #11
The local BLM folks taught me that the presidency really does not matter. F4lconF16 Oct 2015 #15
Funny because from artislife Oct 2015 #85
latina here..I call bs. nt artislife Oct 2015 #82
Eh, you might take a look at which faction decamped to another site Fumesucker Oct 2015 #13
I don't do factions, frankly. MineralMan Oct 2015 #16
Then why were you singling out Sanders supporters? Fumesucker Oct 2015 #22
Because I've not heard any Clinton supporters say they would not MineralMan Oct 2015 #24
Quite a number of Clinton supporters are convinced that Sanders is a racist Fumesucker Oct 2015 #26
Actually, I don't think that's true at all. MineralMan Oct 2015 #30
I've already pointed you at an OP of complete lies against Sanders by a Clinton supporter Fumesucker Oct 2015 #35
And I've pointed out that I have no interest in other MineralMan Oct 2015 #39
That OP was on *this* website Fumesucker Oct 2015 #44
Lots of posters post lots of things. MineralMan Oct 2015 #47
I'm like you and Pepperidge Farm, I remember Fumesucker Oct 2015 #69
You do now, according to workingclasszero, stonecutter357 and sancho Bernie is a racist: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #63
Never heard of any of them... MineralMan Oct 2015 #95
Now you have. So the meme that no one here thinks Bernie is a racist is bullshit. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #98
Please link to posters saying Sanders is a racist mcar Oct 2015 #43
Go look up the thread "Not GOod Enough, Bernie" Scootaloo Oct 2015 #52
According to workingclasszero, stonecutter357 and sancho Bernie is a racist: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #62
Yeah, there was a thread there where they were debating if they should vote for Trump over Sanders Chathamization Oct 2015 #131
i have thought about it restorefreedom Oct 2015 #14
Those who want to sit this out DonCoquixote Oct 2015 #17
Yeah, but they will have made their point Hayduke Bomgarte Oct 2015 #41
I don't believe your scenario of a Clinton win will come to fruition anyway, NorthCarolina Oct 2015 #18
I live in a very blue state, what I do or don't do doesn't matter. nt m-lekktor Oct 2015 #19
Strikes are important, too. Hillary is the candidate of "management", not the people. reformist2 Oct 2015 #20
Short-term damage like the George Bush administration? emulatorloo Oct 2015 #27
Bernie Sanders is a Democratic candidate and I am voting for Bernie. Todays_Illusion Oct 2015 #21
OK. But I'm not talking about the primaries, really, MineralMan Oct 2015 #23
I've done my thinking. 99Forever Oct 2015 #25
+1000 NorthCarolina Oct 2015 #28
...^ that 840high Oct 2015 #31
My ethics, morals, and conscience tell me to vote for Dems in the general emulatorloo Oct 2015 #36
Albert Einstein defined insanity as.... 99Forever Oct 2015 #48
Actually, Einstein probably never said that. MineralMan Oct 2015 #51
I agree with what it says... 99Forever Oct 2015 #53
I see. I just thought it was interesting. MineralMan Oct 2015 #54
Agree completely MissDeeds Oct 2015 #60
For me as well. hifiguy Oct 2015 #97
Same same. 99Forever Oct 2015 #105
Decided many years ago I am not, besides I have to live with myself and if I did vote YabaDabaNoDinoNo Oct 2015 #32
Well, OK, then... MineralMan Oct 2015 #34
vote like an adult, or a crybaby child. FDR is not on the ballot. pansypoo53219 Oct 2015 #37
I'll vote for the D Nominee Hayduke Bomgarte Oct 2015 #38
K&R mcar Oct 2015 #40
I have to applaud... quickesst Oct 2015 #49
Thanks for that. Yes, taking a broader view is important. MineralMan Oct 2015 #50
Right behind you at 63... quickesst Oct 2015 #77
No doesn't mean no HassleCat Oct 2015 #55
Well, I tend to take people at their word, and think MineralMan Oct 2015 #57
Having a (D) next to your name isn't quite enough anymore..... bowens43 Oct 2015 #58
Hmm...is that a universal truth or your personal opinion? MineralMan Oct 2015 #59
I urge everyone to vote. Aerows Oct 2015 #65
Absolutely. Local races are crucial. MineralMan Oct 2015 #94
They are, and as I mentioned below Aerows Oct 2015 #117
I would never sit out an election just because of a presidential candidate. hifiguy Oct 2015 #108
Bingo! Aerows Oct 2015 #116
I will not vote for a corporate warhawk. Fearless Oct 2015 #66
Not to worry. Skidmore Oct 2015 #76
Thanks Skidmore. Best post in the thread redstateblues Oct 2015 #80
Bullshit. 99Forever Oct 2015 #110
No Citizen Need Vote For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Sorry - Some Cannot Stomach That Vote cantbeserious Oct 2015 #87
If she's the nominee I'll vote for her. The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2015 #90
You absolutely nailed my sentiments, Velveteen Ocelot mike dub Oct 2015 #93
To a degree, but it depends entirely on the state in which you live. hifiguy Oct 2015 #96
I won't vote for Hillary pinebox Oct 2015 #100
So, who's running for the Green Party nomination? MineralMan Oct 2015 #102
I wouldn't let it concern you, MM. NanceGreggs Oct 2015 #103
See, I don't like to think that way. MineralMan Oct 2015 #104
Well, no one really likes to think that way ... NanceGreggs Oct 2015 #106
I think I will just go on assuming that everyone here MineralMan Oct 2015 #107
Well, when I see so many posters here ... NanceGreggs Oct 2015 #120
How's that locked down love fest hillarysupporters doing? Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #143
Oooh, yes! NanceGreggs Oct 2015 #146
Amazing how many people respond to this thread be saying they will definitively not vote for Hillary oberliner Oct 2015 #109
Well, until a candidate is clear, the admins of DU MineralMan Oct 2015 #111
I get that it's allowed - I just find it strange oberliner Oct 2015 #118
Yes. So do I. MineralMan Oct 2015 #122
I am a Democrat and although, I am unhappy with the ... prairierose Oct 2015 #113
Thanks for your cogent reply. MineralMan Oct 2015 #114
I was a true Democrat before this election cycle started and I will be a true Democrat after the Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #119
Thanks! MineralMan Oct 2015 #121
Living in a blue state it doesn't matter so, no I will not vote for Clinton IVoteDFL Oct 2015 #123
On principle I won't commit to another person's loyalty pledge LostOne4Ever Oct 2015 #129
If you don't like your outcomes, change your inputs demwing Oct 2015 #135
Problem is that I can't stop thinking I'll have to vote for her and it's making me sick. Scuba Oct 2015 #136
Most of them will vote for Hillary even if they say they wont now moobu2 Oct 2015 #137
Thanks for the paternalistic lecture. Warren Stupidity Oct 2015 #141
My pleasure. Truly. MineralMan Oct 2015 #142
Never. Voting. For. Clinton. PowerToThePeople Oct 2015 #144
Better hope folks don't stay away because of the way HRC supporters treat Bernie supporters. aikoaiko Oct 2015 #145

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
7. It really doesn't matter if you're in a solid blue or solid red state.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:47 PM
Oct 2015

I hate that politics has come to this, but, honestly, unless you're in a swing state, your fate is decided for you.

liberal N proud

(60,302 posts)
33. If you choose not to vote - still you have voted!
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:33 PM
Oct 2015

By not voting, you are in effect voting for the opponent.

If you think you don't have an effect, see the last election and the number that didn't vote and how that might have prevented the changes in the Senate.




Not Voting because your candidate didn't make it to the dance is just stupid!

 

Left Ear

(81 posts)
99. I just cannot abandon my conscience and vote for someone I don't agree with
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:42 PM
Oct 2015

I'll just skip the Presidential part of the ballot if Bernie is not on it.

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
138. That would result in +1 vote for a hard-right GOP candidate.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 09:33 AM
Oct 2015

Should one's conscience, and responsibility as a citizen, only engage with one candidate? Conscience might be taken "off line" when a voter is disappointed, but responsibility cannot.

Response to Hortensis (Reply #138)

Hortensis

(58,785 posts)
140. Agree with your sense of responsibility now, Left Ear. But then what,
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 09:43 AM
Oct 2015

if the "worst" happens? Responsibility for the presidential outcome POOF!? My point is that it stays with each of us -- we can, and often do, turn our consciences off, but responsibility? We cannot cancel that, give it away, blow it up. It's ours.

I'm not crazy about HRC's record either. But I've watched the GOP shift hard right and try to govern, disastrously, for decades now, and there is literally not a single GOP candidate who does not make HRC look like Bernie in comparison. They are all hard right to extreme right conservatives. Perspective.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
130. I will vote Democrat on all down ticket races and I will vote for Bernie. I will not vote Republican
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 10:45 PM
Oct 2015

I will not vote Republican.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
133. By that you mean you'll vote for Bernie if he's the nominee and
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 03:40 AM
Oct 2015

Hillary if she is the nominee, but you think Bernie will win the nomination....

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
2. And if you're thinking about not voting for Sanders if he becomes the nominee?
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:43 PM
Oct 2015

It was Clinton supporters who famously became PUMAs nearly eight years ago.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
4. I will vote for the Democratic nominee.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:45 PM
Oct 2015

I always have, since 1968, when I voted for the first time in a presidential election. I would never consider doing anything else. I don't know of any Clinton supporter who would not vote for Sanders if he won the nomination. I do know of some Sanders supporters who have said that they would not vote for Clinton.

Hence my post.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
81. Neither have I
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:51 PM
Oct 2015

The only ones I see making such claims about NOT voting if their guy doesn't win are the so called supporters of Sanders. It has nothing to do with Bernie, but for some odd reason there are a whole lot of posts about how some of the so called supporters of his won't vote for Hillary. I guess they have another agenda.

Lancero

(2,983 posts)
84. Can't remember who it was...
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:53 PM
Oct 2015

But someone here said they'll withhold their vote if they don't have a Democrat to vote for.

Given that Sanders is a Independent, who is just running for the D Nomination, it's not to hard to see who they'll refuse to vote for.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
125. So that's two who won't vote for Bernie.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 10:01 PM
Oct 2015

Now they'll move the goal posts to I haven't seen "many" HC supporters who say they won't vote for Bernie.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
128. Deny or ignore the proof.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 10:14 PM
Oct 2015

Just like when you give them proof that HC supporters think Bernie's a racist and they ignore it or claim it doesn't prove anything.



 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
12. Every Clinton supporter i have seen here has said they will support the nominee.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:52 PM
Oct 2015

Sanders supporters can't say the same.

Pumas are rearing their heads but it is not Hrc supporters.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
46. Exactly.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:08 PM
Oct 2015

I did not vote for her in 2008, but I will this time for various reasons. And I will vote for the Democratic Party nominee whoever it may be.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
61. neither group is a monolith. Each is composed of individuals.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:52 PM
Oct 2015

If I had to guess, it's probably easier for HRC supporters to sign off on pledges like that, because a whole ton of them are still assuming she's going to be the nominee.

And- they may be right. Hell, I've assumed she will be for a while.

But if she isn't, that's where the rubber will meet the road, and I suspect we will see the absolute, completely unhinged meltdowns of an extremely emotionally invested group of folks who have assumed all along that not only was she inevitable, but that she was absolutely positively "owed" it this time around, because "it's her turn", etc.

The wholly unmitigated shit-losing, should that eventuality occur, will be epic.

Good news for those folks is, we probably won't see that. Still, it means that the "pledges" from HRC supporters who have all along figured she has it in the bag, don't mean all that much.

Personally, I'll vote for the nominee. Always said that.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
64. Seems like you are making e cuses for Sanders supporters who are puma to me.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 04:26 PM
Oct 2015

We gave our word and we stand by it.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
67. No, because it's not my job to answer for other people.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 04:49 PM
Oct 2015

Here's me, talking to a Sanders person who is unwilling to commit to voting For Hillary as the nominee-

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=641799

i will vote for the nominee. Im glad to hear Hillary people say the same, when they do.

Holy fuck do i suspect they will lose their freaking minds if it isnt her, though.


 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
71. Some of your fellow Sanders supporters are open about the fact they won't take it well if he does
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 04:55 PM
Oct 2015

not win.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
72. Like I said, here's me talking to one of them-
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:03 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=641799

Im not sure what more you would like me to do, justin.

It's also worth noting that the time to rally "behind the nominee" is once we have one. Despite deep denial from camp Hillarinc on this deal from the get-go, we still dont have a nominee.

And i still maintain that en masse the category 5 temper tantrums will be much more epic if she isnt the nominee, than if she is. Because i strongly believe a large vein of her support isnt about actual policy issues, but some deep emotional identification with her as an idea.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
74. Okay, well, you cant have it both ways.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:11 PM
Oct 2015

You cant gripe about sanders people going all PUMA and then ignore it when we not only commit to not doing that, but actively try to talk sense to younger voters who may not grok the totality of the situation.

As for honesty, im being "honest" too, jack. I lost friendships over ralph fucking nader in 2000. I suspect you are ignoring what I'm saying here because a) it doesnt fit your narrative and b) you know my analysis of the absolutely incoherent shrieking shitfits that camp HRC will experience in the unlikely but possible eventuality that she is "robbed" again, is spot-on.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
75. Has any hrc supporter on this site said they are going puma? No!
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:20 PM
Oct 2015

Yet you want to put the point in we might go back on our word. seems that is just a dig at us.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
78. I think perhaps you should go back and read what I actually said.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:44 PM
Oct 2015

I said I think the freakouts will be epic. OH MY FUCKING GOD, can you imagine?

Just take a step back and envision it for a sec. Objectively.

I also think the time to have "support the nominee" discussions is after we actually have one. Until then everyone is just talking past each other.

 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
79. You said...
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:46 PM
Oct 2015

If I had to guess, it's probably easier for HRC supporters to sign off on pledges like that, because a whole ton of them are still assuming she's going to be the nominee.

And- they may be right. Hell, I've assumed she will be for a while.

But if she isn't, that's where the rubber will meet the road, and I suspect we will see the absolute, completely unhinged meltdowns of an extremely emotionally invested group of folks who have assumed all along that not only was she inevitable, but that she was absolutely positively "owed" it this time around, because "it's her turn", etc.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=641724

My point stands.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
83. We will have to wait and see. That's my point, there.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:53 PM
Oct 2015

People want a pledge, I've already taken the pledge. Can't do more than that, can I?

Do you disagree, in moments of total honesty, that the lose-it factor will be fucking enormous if she actually, you know, loses it again?

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
89. Good, because I don't play well with others anyway.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 06:45 PM
Oct 2015

But I'm gonna vote for the nominee. I always vote for the nominee. Every 4 years. Even if I was inclined to pretend I wouldn't, that's what I do.

And if that nominee isn't Hillary, I'm prepared to watch a small, emotionally overinvested group of people completely lose their minds.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
132. You're absolutely right, you are.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 01:51 AM
Oct 2015

It's not "her turn".

She needs to actually win it, and voters in the process- her husband the seasoned political expert recently acknowledged as much.

And doing so will make her a stronger, better candidate if she should get the nomination.

I think if you're honest with yourself you'll acknowledge that a lot of her campaign's problems- both this cycle and 2008- have grown out of the mentality that somehow this deal was hers by default. And that mentality IS out there, whether you've personally seen it or not, and in my experience it's filtering down from the top ranks of her strategy team.


TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
91. And they will go into the booth and vote for the fake moderate TeaPubliKlan by the millions
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:14 PM
Oct 2015

as they did with Bush and Reagan then spend years whining about Nader/Anderson/Kennedy splitting the vote OR weakening the nominee and/or blaming liberals one way or the other.

I don't give a shit what they say, they have proven they will SAY ANYTHING.

TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
101. Not that I recall but there are plenty that are poo flingers with little concern for truth
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:46 PM
Oct 2015

in the crowd.

Conservatives are lying liars that lie regardless of which box they check on a registration form.

I don't trust a corporate enabling conservative as far as I can throw a super massive black hole with a hand tied behind my back and on one knee.

eallen

(2,951 posts)
45. The PUMAs were wrong. For just the reasons explained in the top post.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:06 PM
Oct 2015

The answer to the PUMAs isn't to repeat their mistake with different candidates.

It's to reject that kind of thinking.


 

hrmjustin

(71,265 posts)
6. Pumas are not hiding their views and to be fair I respect honesty.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:46 PM
Oct 2015

As long as they remember if she does win and when it is clear there are rules against advocating against the nominee. Same goes if Sanders wins.

 

aidbo

(2,328 posts)
9. I'll vote for her in the GE if she is the nominee.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:49 PM
Oct 2015

But her nomination might be a deal-breaker for me & the party after the GE.

I think that's reasonable.

 

Cali_Democrat

(30,439 posts)
10. Who cares if people say they won't vote for Hillary if she's the nominee?
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:49 PM
Oct 2015

Those people aren't even Dems.

They'll throw a tantrum if Hillary wins, but just ignore them.

 

BlueWaveDem

(403 posts)
11. Like I said in another thread: Bernie or bust?
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:49 PM
Oct 2015

This is why many minorities believe Bernie supporters don't fully embrace causes like Black Lives Matter, etc. Because many of them are willing to throw them under the bus if their preferred candidate doesn't get the nomination. They want minority votes, but will toss any notion of progress out the window if its not Bernie at the helm. 

With republicans in control, Black lives won't matter, immigrant families will be torn apart, and there will be not an inkling of economic or social justice. And SCOTUS will be wingnut for at least another generation.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
15. The local BLM folks taught me that the presidency really does not matter.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:01 PM
Oct 2015

It is the people that do.

With republicans in control, Black lives won't matter, immigrant families will be torn apart, and there will be not an inkling of economic or social justice.


Oddly enough, they taught me that the same has been happening under Democratic presidents as well.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
13. Eh, you might take a look at which faction decamped to another site
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:53 PM
Oct 2015

A site which seems to have virtually no interest in policy but a great deal of interest in hating Sanders and his supporters.

Indeed, one of the members over there left this amazing piece of totally fabricated fail here in GD-P.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251640125

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
16. I don't do factions, frankly.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:06 PM
Oct 2015

So, I'm not interested much in what other DUers do on other websites. I don't participate in single-candidate groups, either, except on very rare occasions. I'm not a member of any faction. I am supporting Clinton, because I believe she has the best chance to beat the Republicans in the General Election. That's based on many factors.

I'm outcome oriented. I'm also a Democrat, so I vote for the Democrat for President, even if it's certain that person won't win. I cannot vote for a Republican, and know that one or the other will win. So, I vote for the Democrat on general political principles.

I'm also not a single-issue voter, or even a multiple single-issue voter. I vote for outcomes. For me, it's a binary thing. I want to support the primary candidate I believe has the best chance to win in November. Outcomes. I want a Democratic President. I always want a Democratic President.

I want a Democratic House, Senate and state legislatures, too. In my districts and state, we have elected solid, progressives to those offices. I'm unable, really, to affect those races, except in my districts and state. That's actually my primary electoral focus, since my influence on Presidential elections is minimal, really. I hope for, and vote for, Democrats for the office of President, and rely on other Democrats in all 50 states to do the same. I have no choice, really, and know that either a Democrat or Republican will become President. I want the best outcome possible in every election. So, that's what drives my preferences. Nothing else.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
22. Then why were you singling out Sanders supporters?
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:16 PM
Oct 2015

That would be a "faction" but you say you don't do factions when the evidence of your own words shows that you are indeed addressing one faction here on DU.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
24. Because I've not heard any Clinton supporters say they would not
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:19 PM
Oct 2015

vote for Sanders if he's the nominee. I've heard several Sanders supporters say that. That's why.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
26. Quite a number of Clinton supporters are convinced that Sanders is a racist
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:23 PM
Oct 2015

Against virtually all the evidence I might add.

Do you really think they are going to vote for someone they believe to be a racist?

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
30. Actually, I don't think that's true at all.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:31 PM
Oct 2015

I don't know any who think he is a racist. Clearly he is not. He's been involved in civil rights since the 1960s, as have I. Anyone who calls him a racist is either not paying attention or is being duplicitous.

Again, I have heard no Clinton supporter say that he or she would not vote for Sanders if he were the nominee. Not one. Now, you might be able to find some post that says that, but I've not seen it. As I said, I have seen a number of Sanders supporters who say they would not vote for Clinton if she were the nominee. So, my OP is directed at that group. If you are not part of that group, I'm not addressing you.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
35. I've already pointed you at an OP of complete lies against Sanders by a Clinton supporter
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:35 PM
Oct 2015

They obviously believed it or they wouldn't have posted it.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
39. And I've pointed out that I have no interest in other
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:43 PM
Oct 2015

websites, particularly single-candidate websites. I didn't read that thread, nor will I. I can't see any purpose it serves, frankly

I am in no way aligned with any other website, nor am I connected to other Clinton supporters. I post on DU on my own accord, and only on my own accord. If you want to argue with me, argue about my words, not the words of others. I'm not interested in what others are saying on other websites. Sorry.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
44. That OP was on *this* website
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:02 PM
Oct 2015

You should read it, it's very revealing of the mentality of some Clinton supporters.

I'm even less of a joiner than you are, I have one other political blog/website I read with some regularity and have been since the early 2000's and they are thoroughly in the bag for Clinton, what I find amusing is that the same site in 2008 was basically over the Moon for Obama and dissed Clinton at every opportunity. Oddly enough I'm seeing that same pattern in some DUers too, dissed the hell out of Clinton in 2008 and now are vehement supporters who trash Sanders at every opportunity.

It's like people don't realize you can go back and read their words from 2008.



MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
47. Lots of posters post lots of things.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:12 PM
Oct 2015

I read DU selectively, and pay attention to who is posting what sorts of things. I don't use the site's Ignore feature. I'm perfectly capable of ignoring people in the old-fashioned way.

I also don't use the Trash Thread feature. Again, I can skip threads just fine on my own. When I recognize that someone is not really here to discuss things political in a rational, truthful way, I don't bother with them any longer. Like all discussion forums, DU has its share of insincere members. Why they're here is not a matter that is of concern to me. I simply ignore their posts, once I see that they're not sincere or thoughtful.

Another thing I never do is go searching for things people have said in the past, either here or elsewhere. I don't find that to be useful in any way. I read for understanding and clarity about issues. If I find neither, I move on.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
63. You do now, according to workingclasszero, stonecutter357 and sancho Bernie is a racist:
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:57 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251552162

And according to this anti-Semitic op the poster claims Bernie is of the "race of people are most likely to use these words" (racial slurs):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251506371

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
52. Go look up the thread "Not GOod Enough, Bernie"
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:31 PM
Oct 2015

I can't link it 'cause I don't feel like taking the author off ignore. In it, the author accuses him of being responsible for virginian slavery, the Chicago PD's abuses against black people, and further in the thread, outright calls him a segregationist.

There's another post that basically asserts that black people shouldn't vote for Sanders because Sanders is a Jew, and "we all know" what Jews think about black people.

Plus the four months of "I'm not saying Sanders is a racist but..." bullshit.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
62. According to workingclasszero, stonecutter357 and sancho Bernie is a racist:
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:55 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251552162

And according to this anti-Semitic op the poster claims Bernie is of the "race of people are most likely to use these words" (racial slurs):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251506371


You're welcome.


Chathamization

(1,638 posts)
131. Yeah, there was a thread there where they were debating if they should vote for Trump over Sanders
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 11:39 PM
Oct 2015

Seriously. Most said they wouldn't vote for Trump, but still - the fact that they had that debate (and no one though it was crazy) is telling.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
14. i have thought about it
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 01:53 PM
Oct 2015

and as I explained in another thread, and as someone pointed out up thread here, unless you're in a swing state, the general election vote isn't going to change the outcome. In those instances, in which the state is pretty much going one way or the other, voting for the nominee if one is not in agreement with them, I think actually makes us feel less like we have a voice. However, if some of us write in our preferred candidate particularly if we're not in a swing state, if all those write in votes get added up at the end we may end up with a powerful statement of desire to move towards progressive ideals, even if a progressive is not the nominee or the president. For me, I've only ever lived in states that were solidly red or blue, so for me the vote. that really matters is the primary vote. And in the general, I'm still going to vote for Bernie whether he's nom or not. Because my vote is not going to change anything, in terms of the outcome, but it will be another vote for progressive ideals which could make a powerful statement when added together.

DonCoquixote

(13,615 posts)
17. Those who want to sit this out
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:06 PM
Oct 2015

will be the ones to point at when the days of coat hanger abortions are back.

Hayduke Bomgarte

(1,965 posts)
41. Yeah, but they will have made their point
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:57 PM
Oct 2015

Much as the voters in 2000 who voted 3rd party, or sat out, rather than vote Gore.

That all turned out just fine, as we all know now.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
18. I don't believe your scenario of a Clinton win will come to fruition anyway,
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:07 PM
Oct 2015

so your point is probably moot.

reformist2

(9,841 posts)
20. Strikes are important, too. Hillary is the candidate of "management", not the people.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:11 PM
Oct 2015

While the outcome of a voter strike might be short-term damaging, it ought to teach the big money dems to play ball with us and give us a candidate we can all support.

emulatorloo

(43,982 posts)
27. Short-term damage like the George Bush administration?
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:27 PM
Oct 2015

Still living with the mayhem those crooks created. I remember too many DU'ers doing the "I just can't vote for Kerry, he is too X for me" dance in 2004.

But it is your vote, so vote how your conscience tells you to vote.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
23. OK. But I'm not talking about the primaries, really,
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:18 PM
Oct 2015

except insofar as they determine who the nominee will be. I'm talking about the General Election, after the primaries are over. I'm talking about solidarity in voting for the Democratic nominee, because that will produce the best outcome for the next four years.

Outcomes.

If Sanders is the nominee, he'll get my vote, of course. I happen to believe that Clinton has a better chance to win in the general election, so I'm supporting her for the nomination. But I will cast my vote for the nominee, whoever it is.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
25. I've done my thinking.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:23 PM
Oct 2015

I won't be fearmongered into betraying my ethics, morals, or conscience.

That shit is over for me. Forever.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
28. +1000
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:29 PM
Oct 2015

But between you and me, I think this shit will be over after the first Democratic debate hits the internet.

emulatorloo

(43,982 posts)
36. My ethics, morals, and conscience tell me to vote for Dems in the general
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:36 PM
Oct 2015

There's nothing moral about enabling a far right Republican to take the White House. Too many bad consequences for most Americans.

I suppose you would define that as "fearmongering" but I remember the real damage done by Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2.

Anyway, just thinking out loud. It is your vote, so of course you must follow your own conscience.

More than likely we'll get Bernie the nomination, so all this is irrelevant anyway.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
48. Albert Einstein defined insanity as....
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:14 PM
Oct 2015

...doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I have reclaimed my sanity and Hillary isn't going take it away from me

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
51. Actually, Einstein probably never said that.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:29 PM
Oct 2015

It's often attributed to him, but at one point he said that he "probably didn't say that." Here's an interesting discussion on Snopes discussion are about that meme. I'm thinking it's a false attribution, as clever as it seems to be...

http://message.snopes.com/showthread.php?t=33566

On the Wikipedia page on Einstein, you'll find this:

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Variously misattributed to figures also including Benjamin Franklin and Mark Twain. The earliest known occurrence, and probable origin, is from a 1981 text from Narcotics Anonymous.


https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein#Disputed

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
53. I agree with what it says...
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:34 PM
Oct 2015

...and really care fuckall if he originated it or not.

But a unsurprisingly obvious attempt to deflect coming from you is right in character.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
54. I see. I just thought it was interesting.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:36 PM
Oct 2015

As a meme, it's very apt. Its attribution, though, is questionable. I just thought you might find it interesting. Interesting things are a primary interest of mine. So, you're right, digging for meme origins is right in character for me.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
97. For me as well.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:35 PM
Oct 2015

I voted with great enthusiasm for Obama in '08. In '12 I voted for him because he was not Rmoney.

I am sick and tired of voting for the lesser of two evils.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
105. Same same.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:54 PM
Oct 2015

I clearly remember being told that I "just wasn't paying attention to the REAL Obama." I actually thought he meant the BS he said while campaigning, even though now I'm told I "didn't really understand" what he "really meant." Okay, fair enough. I was gullible in believing supporting Obama would be followed by him supporting me and mine.

My eyes are WIDE open this time and pretty speeches and weasel word promises aren't going to cut it this time. Proven liars won't get a second glance from me. Period.

 

YabaDabaNoDinoNo

(460 posts)
32. Decided many years ago I am not, besides I have to live with myself and if I did vote
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:33 PM
Oct 2015

For her I would become so despondent that I compromised my values I would most likely kill myself.

So there it is.





Hayduke Bomgarte

(1,965 posts)
38. I'll vote for the D Nominee
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 02:42 PM
Oct 2015

In the General, whoever that may be.

It's my opinion that refusal to do so is an irresponsible dereliction of civic duty, made especially egregious and reprehensible when persons considering themselves any level of "Progressive" are involved, considering the stakes. I also believe refusal to vote for the "D", even if not voting at all, is tantamount to voting for the opposition and is an indefensible, inexcusable position.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
49. I have to applaud...
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:17 PM
Oct 2015

.... your efforts at bringing logic and common sense to Democratic Underground. Even if I were not a Clinton supporter, I would never think of doing an injustice to my children and grandchildren by not voting for the Democratic nominee. Leaving their lives and future in the hands of the Republicans is not an option. I would readily give up my honor, scruples, ego and whatever else comes with that for the sake of those who are going to follow me in life. Sometimes it's not just about me. Thanks

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
50. Thanks for that. Yes, taking a broader view is important.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:23 PM
Oct 2015

I'm 70 years old, so I've seen plenty of Democratic and Republican presidencies. One thing I recognize is that people tend to do better in many areas when Democrats are President and do worse in those areas when Republicans are. My personal political stance is socialistic, but I have long recognized that socialism will never be the political/economic practice of this country in my lifetime. There's nothing I can do about that, frankly.

So, I look at outcomes and try to achieve the best outcome possible in any election. That's why I will be voting for the Democratic presidential nominee in 2016, whoever it is. I will do my best to get others to do the same, just as I have done since 1960 when I was still in high school.

Thanks for recognizing what I'm saying, and thanks for always thinking of the future and present outcomes of elections.

quickesst

(6,280 posts)
77. Right behind you at 63...
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:33 PM
Oct 2015

My uncle T used to tell me he votes Democrat because every time a Republican gets elected a Democrat has to come in and fix the mess they leave. Keep up the good work

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
55. No doesn't mean no
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:38 PM
Oct 2015

Many people who say they won't vote for Clinton in the general will do so once they see how things are shaping up regarding a runaway congress, court appointments, etc.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
57. Well, I tend to take people at their word, and think
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:42 PM
Oct 2015

some of the people saying that will probably do what they say. Maybe most of them. I'm trying to convince a few to think more about that with this post. I'm sure I'll be repeating the essentials of the post again a few times as we move past the primary season.

It's something I feel strongly about.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
59. Hmm...is that a universal truth or your personal opinion?
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 03:46 PM
Oct 2015

I'm pretty sure most Democrats will vote for Democrats for a wide range of offices, even if the individual candidates aren't their favorites. That's how party politics tends to work, and our system is certainly a two-party system. Voters, in the vast majority, tend to vote along party lines in the US.

Some, of course, do not. You may be among that group. I don't know. My post was about just that subject, and thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
65. I urge everyone to vote.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 04:32 PM
Oct 2015

You are voting for more than the Presidency, you are also going to have local and state elections on the ballet.

We have GOT to get more Democrats in our State Houses, in our Local elected positions and in our Governorships.

No matter who the Democratic nominee is, I can guarantee you that I will be in the poll booth. I can also guarantee that any time one is open for local and state elections, I'll be there, too. All politics, when it comes down to it, are local, and go from there. If we want better Democrats, we need to get better Democrats into local office so they can build their careers and later go on to more pivotal roles in the party and for the electorate.



Sorry, I'll get off of my soapbox now.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
117. They are, and as I mentioned below
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:37 PM
Oct 2015

If you can help someone else get to the polls, they never forget it and some come to rely on it. If it is at all possible to help get some folks to the polls, everyone benefits. They get to vote, and it improves morale with respect to voting across the precinct.

People don't forget when you help them do their civic obligation to vote, and you might just turn a long-shot candidate into a winner if enough people show up to pull the lever.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
108. I would never sit out an election just because of a presidential candidate.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:04 PM
Oct 2015

Too many other Democrats to vote for, especially my congressman, the wonderful Keith Ellison.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
116. Bingo!
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:34 PM
Oct 2015

Even Bernie Sanders started out as a Mayor. We have to get our local Democratic politicians elected, so that they can become state Democratic politicians. We have to get our state Democratic politicians elected, so that they can become more visible and have more grassroots support for national elections (i.e. House, Senate, Oval Office).

Anyone that gripes about why we don't have good Democrats to vote for needs to load their car up with eligible voters and haul them down to the polls for local, state and national elections. There are always people in the community, the elderly, the differently abled, and those that won't go alone, but will go with the crowd if offered a ride to the polls. People never forget you offering to take them to the polls, and many rely on it.

If I happen to mention who I am voting for on the way there, well, what they do in the voter's booth is still their business and I'm still glad I helped them get there regardless.

Fearless

(18,421 posts)
66. I will not vote for a corporate warhawk.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 04:45 PM
Oct 2015

If I wanted that I'd vote Republican.

And if you say that I'm naive for saying they're the same, you'll note I didn't say that.

Skidmore

(37,364 posts)
76. Not to worry.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:23 PM
Oct 2015

Not voting for Hilllary in the GE should she become the nominee will be a de facto vote for a Republican.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,280 posts)
90. If she's the nominee I'll vote for her.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:06 PM
Oct 2015

Here in MN it won't matter much, since it will probably go blue anyhow. But I don't see myself donating money (she has plenty) or putting up lawn signs or any of that stuff. The only enthusiasm underlying my vote will be for defeating whichever knucklehead the GOPers will come up with; my vote will be against the GOPer, not for Hillary. I realize that my intent isn't important - only the vote. But I'll drag my unenthusiastic old ass to the polls and cast my vote against the Republican party just to be sure the Supreme Court doesn't get any worse than it already is.

mike dub

(541 posts)
93. You absolutely nailed my sentiments, Velveteen Ocelot
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:26 PM
Oct 2015

My vote for Hillary Clinton, should she be our nominee, would merely be a vote Against whoever the rethugs nominate. I'm a Bernie supporter all the way, but I'm not about to sit out Any election because I don't 100% agree with our Nominee. And I'm in a dark red precinct here in rural North Carolina (perhaps not swing state material this time like we were in 08) but I'll be damned if I don't do my duty and vote. Sitting out elections or voting third party to give the Rethugs one less Vote Against them isn't an option with me.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
96. To a degree, but it depends entirely on the state in which you live.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:33 PM
Oct 2015

Our state, Minnesota, is as reliably blue in presidential years, as any state can be.

In 1980 I voted my conscience at the time and voted for John Anderson. I thought, correctly, that MN would go Democratic and that Raygun would win the election. I never regretted that vote.

I may well do the same thing next year. But I speak only for myself.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
100. I won't vote for Hillary
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:43 PM
Oct 2015

Sorry but I won't.
I'm an indy. If he isn't the nominee I won't vote for Hillary as she doesn't fit me or my ideals with what I want and seek in a candidate. I'll probably go green party.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
102. So, who's running for the Green Party nomination?
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:47 PM
Oct 2015

I'll go Google them. You can post the names in a reply to this post.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
103. I wouldn't let it concern you, MM.
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 07:51 PM
Oct 2015

Given who is allowed to post here nowadays, most of the people saying they won't for vote HRC won't be voting for any Democrat - no matter who the nominee is.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
107. I think I will just go on assuming that everyone here
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:01 PM
Oct 2015

Is a Democrat who wants to do the right thing. That's the only way I can maintain my faith in humanity. We'll see, I suppose.

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
120. Well, when I see so many posters here ...
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:42 PM
Oct 2015

... who have never said anything positive about Democrats, their elected members, or the Party as a whole, I figure chances are pretty damned good that they're not Democrats - and never have been.

What's the phrase we see here all the time - oh, yeah, "If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck ..."

Well, there's an awful lot of quacking that goes on here. Just sayin' is all.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
143. How's that locked down love fest hillarysupporters doing?
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 11:05 AM
Oct 2015

Why'd you all lock it down anyway? Too embarrassing to have all the love and good vibes on display?

NanceGreggs

(27,813 posts)
146. Oooh, yes!
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 03:45 PM
Oct 2015

It's been locked-down, "scrubbed", thousands of posts deleted - many posters are now in witness protection programs, and several investigations have been launched into the untold nefarious goings on there. The super-duper-secret files on DUers have been moved to a more secure location, and can only be accessed by repeating the name Candyman three times while eating a poached pear.

Shouldn't this be sort of thing be posted in the Conspiracy Theory forum?

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
109. Amazing how many people respond to this thread be saying they will definitively not vote for Hillary
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:05 PM
Oct 2015

Such a statement is literally in direct opposition to what this website is all about according to its founding documents.

It's one thing to vehemently support one's preferred choice in the primary, it's another thing to say unequivocally that one would not vote for the Democratic candidate in the presidential election if it's Hillary Clinton.

Bizarre that such a thing is so common here at this site.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
111. Well, until a candidate is clear, the admins of DU
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:11 PM
Oct 2015

allow all kinds of nonsense. Eventually, that will end.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
118. I get that it's allowed - I just find it strange
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:39 PM
Oct 2015

It just seems antithetical to the spirit of the site to literally say: "I will not vote for the Democratic candidate for president if it is Hillary"

prairierose

(2,145 posts)
113. I am a Democrat and although, I am unhappy with the ...
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:21 PM
Oct 2015

the DNC and the party in general since the inception of the DLC, I will vote for the Democratic nominee.

Any democrat will be better for this country than any of the know nothings on the other side. But most especially because of the Supreme Court. This country can not afford and I believe, probably will not survive another justice appointed by the reactionaries from the know nothing party. They want to overthrow the Constitution and destroy this country no matter their psuedo-patriotism.

While Hillary is my second choice, I believe she would be a good President.

We need to take back the party from the corporate dems and work very hard to elect a Congress that will work for the good of the people and not the corporations and then, no matter who is President, Congress would be able to work for the people. As it is now, since the DNC has conceded so many Congressional races to the know nothings, we have a Congress that does nothing except try to destroy Hillary and Panned Parenthood. These guys have been trying to destroy Hillary since Bill was elected in 1992. Sound familiar, the same thing they have been doing to Obama since he was inaugurated.

But for citizens to concede an election because of their dislike of a candidate is the same as working for the other side.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
119. I was a true Democrat before this election cycle started and I will be a true Democrat after the
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 08:39 PM
Oct 2015

Election. We know there are posters on DU who are not Democrats, nit unexpected to hear the inflammatory statements said but it will NEVER convince me not to vote or vote for a Rebublican.

IVoteDFL

(417 posts)
123. Living in a blue state it doesn't matter so, no I will not vote for Clinton
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 09:17 PM
Oct 2015

I see a lot of people say that it's always going to be a D or an R. Yes, there is a lot of evidence that supports that claim, but as a younger person I see my generation maybe taking an alternate route. We live and learn on the web, and reaching out to potential voters, especially young ones is easier than it ever has been before. I obviously wouldn't take the gamble if I lived in a swing state, but I think this time around if Sanders or O'Malley aren't the nominee I might vote for Jill Stein.

LostOne4Ever

(9,267 posts)
129. On principle I won't commit to another person's loyalty pledge
Fri Oct 2, 2015, 10:16 PM
Oct 2015

[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=teal]But I will commit to one of my own.

On my word, I will vote for the democratic nominee...unless it is Zell Miller. I draw the line there [/font]

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
135. If you don't like your outcomes, change your inputs
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 08:55 AM
Oct 2015

We've followed your advice for years (well, as the time, that advice wasn't coming from you, but you get my meaning), and all we ever get are "pragmatic" promises for change at some date in the future, and dwindling voter participation in our elections.

"If you don't like your outcomes, change your inputs." What does that mean?

It means that their promise for change in the future won't ever be realized unless we change what we do in the present.

We understand this principle when it relates to gun violence, because gun violence gets in our faces, and does permanent, horrifying damage to our families and to our society. We know that if we continue doing nothing, we will also accomplish nothing. But that principle isn't limited to guns, it applies to all areas of life.

Doing nothing accomplishes nothing. Real change requires real action, and voting for the status quo is not real action.

moobu2

(4,822 posts)
137. Most of them will vote for Hillary even if they say they wont now
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 09:20 AM
Oct 2015

after Bernie endorses Hillary when he concedes.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
141. Thanks for the paternalistic lecture.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 10:54 AM
Oct 2015

It was very helpful.

Do you have any suggestions for getting these kids off my lawn?

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
142. My pleasure. Truly.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 10:59 AM
Oct 2015

I'm sure I'll write about my opinions here again, thanks to your kind reception of them.

aikoaiko

(34,127 posts)
145. Better hope folks don't stay away because of the way HRC supporters treat Bernie supporters.
Sat Oct 3, 2015, 11:30 AM
Oct 2015

There is a new precedent set in this primary about how to choose who to vote for (or not vote for) that I've never seen before.

That could backfire on HRC supporters.

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