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Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 08:35 PM Oct 2015

Why Progressives Shouldn’t Support Bernie: Wishful thinking won’t win the White House - Barnie Frank

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/why-progressives-shouldnt-support-bernie-120484
(emphasis my own)

As skillful a controversialist as Bill Kristol is, he couldn’t help grinning. When we were discussing the 2016 campaign on “Morning Joe” last month, he expressed strong admiration for Bernie Sanders and pretended disbelief that I was not supporting him for president. But the strategically driven discipline he brought to the task of lavishly praising a man whose views he usually derides did not extend to control of his facial muscles.

If you weren’t watching the TV and only overheard our discussion, you might have wondered why one of the leading conservative strategists was speaking so approvingly of a tribune of the left. Viewers who saw the broad smile he was unable to suppress had a clue to the answer: Republicans fear that if Hillary Clinton is nominated fairly easily, while they are locked in a bitter, lengthy, ideologically charged series of primaries with a large cast of characters of varying degrees of plausibility, she gets a head start for the real fight.

Of course Republicans recognize that at its most vigorous, a debate between Clinton and Sanders on how — not whether — to toughen financial regulation or diminish income inequality will fall decibels short of the fundamental arguments between Ted Cruz and Jeb Bush on immigration, Lindsey Graham and Rand Paul on military intervention, Ben Carson and Mike Huckabee against many others on how sharply to press against same-sex marriage, and Donald Trump and all of the others on the role of rational discussion in politics. But they believe boosting Sanders’ candidacy is their only way to prevent Clinton emerging as the nominee with broad support early in the process, strengthening her position in November.

They are correct.
(more)


...Let the RAGE begin....


61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Why Progressives Shouldn’t Support Bernie: Wishful thinking won’t win the White House - Barnie Frank (Original Post) Bill USA Oct 2015 OP
nice try at FUD Agony Oct 2015 #1
I'd like to share my recipe for sour grapes... MindfulOne Oct 2015 #20
Yes. LWolf Oct 2015 #25
Sour Grape with HorseShit Pie… Agony Oct 2015 #30
From Barney the Banker, no less. Fuddnik Oct 2015 #38
+1000. Very well put. GoneFishin Oct 2015 #39
It's called a dialogue. To Bernie supporters there's only 1 reason anyone can be less than Bill USA Oct 2015 #49
"..Let the RAGE begin...." is your idea of dialogue? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #50
try reading the OP. It quotes an excerpt from an article by Barney Frank. My comment was in Bill USA Oct 2015 #53
Frank, whose sister has ties to the Clintons, thought no one should challenge Hillary in a primary. merrily Oct 2015 #61
Hillary's record is clear. Maedhros Oct 2015 #56
No it won't. But hard work, enthusiasm and getting out the vote will. Autumn Oct 2015 #2
Rage? Naw. Yawns. Armstead Oct 2015 #3
To Bernie supporters there's only 1 reason anyone canbe less than enthusiastic about their candidate Bill USA Oct 2015 #51
No....Project much? Armstead Oct 2015 #60
Yawn. Is Barney bleating again? No rage, sowwy! djean111 Oct 2015 #4
And the what would my former representative MannyGoldstein Oct 2015 #5
got anything new? ibegurpard Oct 2015 #6
And to think I used to admire this guy Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #7
Not that you probably care, but already hashed out on DU over 2 months ago... PoliticAverse Oct 2015 #8
not everybody here get's on this site, or the internet, every day Bill USA Oct 2015 #58
What is this, recycle an old meme day? This was posted in July when it was, you know, news: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #9
Nah, this guy's just out of touch with massive democratic surges of youth, issues, etc., etc. eom ancianita Oct 2015 #10
Rage? I've got some Rage! demmiblue Oct 2015 #11
That's a good one, but I've always been partial to the Ghost of Tom Joad: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #13
Recycling: It's not just for garbage! jeff47 Oct 2015 #12
Remind me again the name of the bank he works for now? arcane1 Oct 2015 #14
He joined the board of New York's Signature bank Scootaloo Oct 2015 #15
a banker who supports hillary? restorefreedom Oct 2015 #16
Ahhh . . . when has Kristol ever been right? brush Oct 2015 #17
Indeed, the best possible news is Bill Kristol being convinced Republicans LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #52
The last two Democratic presidents Eric J in MN Oct 2015 #18
I agree, Eric J. I'm a Bernie supporter who will certainly vote for Hillary in the general election enough Oct 2015 #24
Now let us praise those who make their arguments using logic instead of personal attacks of those Bill USA Oct 2015 #54
Barney's just trying to make a buck. CentralMass Oct 2015 #19
Groundhog day on DU! n/t slipslidingaway Oct 2015 #21
LOL! Shhhhhhh, he wants us to RAGE about his stale article. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #23
Part of me thinks we should let these old articles and threads sink, but they also need to be called slipslidingaway Oct 2015 #28
This is the third one tonight, I wonder who sent the memo out? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #29
Not sure, sure seems like someone did, thought we were in October and not July. nt slipslidingaway Oct 2015 #33
Wishful thinking is thinking that Hillary will be able to detach the overloaded baggage car Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #22
Banker Barney? Of course he's with the Wall St candidate. HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #26
If by rage you mean laughter you nailed it! bunnies Oct 2015 #27
Unrec to the max & trashcan. PowerToThePeople Oct 2015 #31
Good idea - I'll do same. 840high Oct 2015 #42
Seeing Bill Kristol just beaming as he spoke about Sanders tells the tale. Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #32
Bill "always wrong" Kristol? Fumesucker Oct 2015 #36
It's probably good to remember that this is personal for Barnie Frank. Zen Democrat Oct 2015 #34
So it makes more sense for Progressives to back a Centrist to make sure a Centrist is elected? RiverLover Oct 2015 #35
+1,000 n/t Admiral Loinpresser Oct 2015 #48
She's not a Centrist, she's a Conservative who panders to liberal social issues.[n/t] Maedhros Oct 2015 #57
Bingo. HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #59
Primary or general? HassleCat Oct 2015 #37
Dear Bill USA MoveIt Oct 2015 #40
Scare tactics based on what Bill Kristol thinks? Has Kristol ever gotten anything right? DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #41
Well, based on what Barney Frank claims Bill Kristol thinks. merrily Oct 2015 #46
Ann Lewis, Barney's sister, worked on Hillary Clinton's campaigns for years. in_cog_ni_to Oct 2015 #43
Wishing Hillary was a progressive won't make her one. Scuba Oct 2015 #44
Barney Frank siding with the DNC and his sister's employer and merrily Oct 2015 #45
A centrist who uses his orientation to to generate credibility as progressive. TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #47
Barney Frank is like Tony Blair Rosa Luxemburg Oct 2015 #55
 

MindfulOne

(227 posts)
20. I'd like to share my recipe for sour grapes...
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 09:14 PM
Oct 2015

Search all day for good news about your candidate.

Lacking any good news about your candidate, find some tripe-ass Politico article bashing the guy who changed expectations for your candidate, the better candidate, the authentic progressive.

Take that article and generous amounts of horse or bull shit.

Stir constantly.

Repeat as needed.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
49. It's called a dialogue. To Bernie supporters there's only 1 reason anyone can be less than
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 05:52 PM
Oct 2015

enthusiastic about their candidate. Anyone so perverse as to not enthusiastically support their candidate must be motivated by perverse political machinations. Barney Frank, a man with 40 years of experience in politics, can only be trying to seed fear, uncertainty and doubt, not speaking out of an honest assessment of Sen. Sanders chances going up against the Republicans in the General Election.

This dogmatic True Believer state of mind, so richly displayed by Bernie supporters, is the stuff of fundamentalist religion and fanaticism, typically leading to contemptuous dismissal of those who dare even to question the ordained doctrine. This True Believer state of mind, demonstrated so consistently by Bernie supporters (in particular the RFB: Republicand 'for' Bernie), is not conducive to a reasoned discussion of the issues or candidates.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
53. try reading the OP. It quotes an excerpt from an article by Barney Frank. My comment was in
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 06:38 PM
Oct 2015

response to cmnt 1: "nice try at FUD" ... meaning I offered an article the intent of which was to sew fear, uncertainty and doubt.

I then criticized Bernie supporters for... being dogmatic True Believers who think the ONLY reason someone could not be enthusiastic about Bernie is out of malevolent intent. ..not out of honest disagreement as to Bernie's electability.


This dogmatic True Believer state of mind, so richly displayed by Bernie supporters, is the stuff of fundamentalist religion and fanaticism, typically leading to contemptuous dismissal of those who dare even to question the ordained doctrine. This True Believer state of mind, demonstrated so consistently by Bernie supporters (in particular the RFB: Republicand 'for' Bernie), is not conducive to a reasoned discussion of the issues or candidates.



In the OP I said: "let the rage begin" because, consistent with my criticism of Sanders supporters, you are not only contemptuously dismissive of anybody's thoughts who doesn't share your enthusiasm for Bernie, but as is seen constantly on this forum, you attack people for disagreeing with you. Yes, you RAGE at people who don't show the proper enthusiasm for your candidate and consistently accuse them of being motivate out some evil intent.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
61. Frank, whose sister has ties to the Clintons, thought no one should challenge Hillary in a primary.
Thu Oct 8, 2015, 06:52 AM
Oct 2015

Well, not a serious challenge, anyway.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/03/16/barney_frank_on_hillary_clinton_2016_democrats_do_not_need_a_vigorous_primary_challenge.html

Maybe a faux challenge, actually intended only to help HRC look better, as some suggested Warren mount?

Frank can sing his undemocratic, conflict of interest song walking.

Frank's sister: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Lewis

Using the "Find" feature of your browser, type in "Clinton" and see how many hits you get in Lewis's wiki.




 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
56. Hillary's record is clear.
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 06:57 PM
Oct 2015

Support for Hillary implies support for her record, which is abysmal.

Not being able to defend her horrible record, you resort to cheap shots like calling us "fundamentalist...fanatics."

Fortunately for Progressives, we don't care what you think.

Bye!

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
3. Rage? Naw. Yawns.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 08:40 PM
Oct 2015

He''s made it abundantly clear he's in Clinton's camp and is now just a surrogate who says nasty things that the candidate won't.

My guess is he's angling for a cabinet post or something.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
51. To Bernie supporters there's only 1 reason anyone canbe less than enthusiastic about their candidate
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 05:56 PM
Oct 2015

... EVIL INTENT ... (thus their is NO room for discussion)


http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251649647#post49


 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
60. No....Project much?
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 08:12 PM
Oct 2015

You wanted to stir up rage with a repetitive missive from a shill for Clinton.and you got boredom, and

It's trite. Evil's got nothing to do with it.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
5. And the what would my former representative
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 08:42 PM
Oct 2015

know about being a Progressive?

Enough ThirdWayDNCsplainin'

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
6. got anything new?
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 08:43 PM
Oct 2015

We're all well acquainted with former congressman (and current banker) Frank's opinions about Bernie Sanders.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
58. not everybody here get's on this site, or the internet, every day
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 07:14 PM
Oct 2015

Sometimes I get on a couple times in a week. With this lack or regularity I can miss articles - not only posted here, but on the web - catching up with them late (or later than you daily internet users). There are events/exigencies (like making a living) requiring my attention in the analogue (as opposed to digital ...(a little humor)) World, which for me takes precedence over the digital 'world'.

I'll admit to not being in the habit of searching to see if an article was posted before. But, knowing that I must not be the only person who doesn't get on here as regularly as some, I can be pretty sure there are others who didn't see the article either.





ancianita

(35,813 posts)
10. Nah, this guy's just out of touch with massive democratic surges of youth, issues, etc., etc. eom
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 08:50 PM
Oct 2015

He's delusional to lump all the rightful concerns of generations with 'wishful thinking.'

Their lives' concerns are recognized by someone who wants to lead the country, and they're going to do a lot more than wishful thinking to make that happen.

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
52. Indeed, the best possible news is Bill Kristol being convinced Republicans
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 06:01 PM
Oct 2015

can beat Bernie Sanders. Has there ever been a case of Bill Kristol being correct? The fact that he thinks Hillary would be more difficult to beat indicates Republicans would likely carry 47 states if she is the nominee.

Eric J in MN

(35,619 posts)
18. The last two Democratic presidents
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 09:06 PM
Oct 2015

...Bill Clinton and Barack Obama, had tough nomination fights before becoming president.

Barney Frank argues that Hillary Clinton would be helped by an easy nomination fight.

It's unclear that she would.

enough

(13,237 posts)
24. I agree, Eric J. I'm a Bernie supporter who will certainly vote for Hillary in the general election
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 09:18 PM
Oct 2015

if she is the candidate. I've thought all along that having a good strong opponent in the primaries would help Hillary, because it will bring out the fighter in her and bring some actual immediate passion to her campaigning. This will greatly help her chances in the general election. Being the inevitable, anointed candidate throughout the primaries is the worst thing that could happen to her chances in the general.

Bill USA

(6,436 posts)
54. Now let us praise those who make their arguments using logic instead of personal attacks of those
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 06:43 PM
Oct 2015

they disagree with!


slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
28. Part of me thinks we should let these old articles and threads sink, but they also need to be called
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 09:28 PM
Oct 2015

out for their BS. So we can rage a little and then let them sink





 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
22. Wishful thinking is thinking that Hillary will be able to detach the overloaded baggage car
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 09:17 PM
Oct 2015

from her history and nobody will notice.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
26. Banker Barney? Of course he's with the Wall St candidate.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 09:24 PM
Oct 2015

I'm voting against the Wall St oligarchy that's stealing American democracy. #BernDownThirdWay

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
32. Seeing Bill Kristol just beaming as he spoke about Sanders tells the tale.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 09:39 PM
Oct 2015

Kristol would rather have Sanders in the general election.

Zen Democrat

(5,901 posts)
34. It's probably good to remember that this is personal for Barnie Frank.
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 09:47 PM
Oct 2015

His sister Ann Lewis has been with Hillary for a long time. First as an adviser in the White House, and as her chief adviser in 2008. I'm sure Ann Lewis is working for Hillary this time too. She's always been true blue for Hillary and brother Barnie was an early endorser.

RiverLover

(7,830 posts)
35. So it makes more sense for Progressives to back a Centrist to make sure a Centrist is elected?
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 09:47 PM
Oct 2015

I can't believe I was once so wrong about this guy. But then, I was wrong about Clinton1 too.

Glad those low-information days are behind me...

We need to turn back LEFT, back to our future.

And besides, isn't Barnie just a regular old banker now? Why would we listen to another corrupt banker???

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
37. Primary or general?
Mon Oct 5, 2015, 10:29 PM
Oct 2015

Sanders' big hurdle is the primary. If he can get past Clinton, his chances in the general are pretty good, maybe even better than Clinton's. It depends on how tired and bored voters are of being offered Democratic candidates who resemble Republicans when they feel they need to.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
43. Ann Lewis, Barney's sister, worked on Hillary Clinton's campaigns for years.
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 12:04 AM
Oct 2015

Conflict of interest. He's in the Clinton's pockets.

Who's boosting Bernie's candidacy? Not OUR MSM. They mention Bernie as an afterthought.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
45. Barney Frank siding with the DNC and his sister's employer and
Tue Oct 6, 2015, 08:21 AM
Oct 2015

and using the "Republicans want to run against Bernie" talking point from the Hillary campaign.

Frank also opposed any primary challenge at all to his sister's employer.

What a shock.

I was equally shocked to learn that gambling sometimes occurs in Rick's Casino.

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