2016 Postmortem

RandySF

(58,776 posts) Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:31 PM Oct 2015

Hillary runs to Bernie's left on guns.

President Obama made what almost sounded like a pitch for Hillary Clinton’s gun-control stance at his passionate Friday press conference (even as he gently chided his former secretary of state for backing a Syrian no-fly zone). A visibly angry Obama promised to “politicize” the issue, and then he offered advice to gun-control forces:

The people who are troubled by this have to be as intense and as organized and as adamant about this issue as folks on the other side.… here’s what you need to do: you have to make sure that anybody who you are voting for is on the right side of this issue. And if they’re not, if they’re great on other stuff, for a couple of election cycles, you’ve got to vote against them. And let them know precisely why you’re voting against them. And you just have to, for a while, be a single-issue voter, cause that’s what is happening on the other side.

If Democrats listen to Obama, that could be bad news for Bernie Sanders. Clinton has announced an ambitious new push for gun limits, in the wake of the massacre at Umpqua Community College in Roseburg, Oregon, Thursday, and she’s hoping it changes the momentum in the unexpectedly close Democratic primary.

Gun control is one issue where Clinton stands to Sanders’s left. The Vermont socialist isn’t terrible on guns: Though the NRA endorsed him in his first race for Congress, he has a D-minus rating from the group. He supported the 2013 background-check bill, in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre, and closing the gun-show sales loophole.

Yet Sanders has troubled gun-control advocates with a few vexing apostasies, most notably his vote against the Brady Bill. On that and other gun issues, he has said that he believes states and not the federal government should set limits. He also voted for NRA-backed bills granting gun manufacturers legal immunity against claims by gun victims, and making it possible to carry guns on Amtrak. He told Bill Maher last year that mental health was “maybe the more important issue” in stopping mass shootings than gun control. “We’ve got millions of folks walking the streets who are need of mental health and they can’t walk into a place and get it,” he said. “This is the NRA talking point.… that’s what they say.” Maher replied.

https://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-is-running-to-bernie-sanderss-left-on-this-one-issue/

29 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Hillary runs to Bernie's left on guns. (Original Post) RandySF Oct 2015 OP

Martin O'Malley has ALREADY done it, stands to Sanders and hrc's lefts. elleng Oct 2015 #1

This campaign issue by Hillary increasingly has the whiff of opportunism to it. leveymg Oct 2015 #2

The Clintons are not new to the issue. RandySF Oct 2015 #4

I didn't say it's a bad issue (quite the opposite), but the timing may be. leveymg Oct 2015 #9

The president himself said it's time to politicize the gun issue. RandySF Oct 2015 #11

That was an immediate, emotional reaction. She seems to be gleeful and gloating. leveymg Oct 2015 #12

Bernie voted to ban assault weapons too. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #19

camp weathervane Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #14

Semi-rural voter here Aerows Oct 2015 #20

She'll look like she's pandering. SoapBox Oct 2015 #24

It will be interesting to see artislife Oct 2015 #3

She is what? HassleCat Oct 2015 #5

Except in the military, then she's all McCain "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran!" peacebird Oct 2015 #6

Since when is addressing both mental health and gun control an "NRA talking point"? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #7

Because that's the NRA meme since Sandy Hook RandySF Oct 2015 #8

So you don't agree with Obama that it's part of the problem? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #10

but, but, but, but Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #15

He really doesn't see how bad this shameless exploitation makes him look. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #16

I know, right Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #18

According to NIH, people with mental illness are LESS likely to be a perpetrator in a shooting DebJ Oct 2015 #21

I am aware of this. So you don't think mental illness is part of the problem either? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #22

I don't think that if a magic wand was waved to resolve that issue, that this would resolve DebJ Oct 2015 #27

And what I've read about quite a few of the perpetrators is what they often have in common, DebJ Oct 2015 #28

I think reaching out to kids and teaching tolerance is a good first step. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #29

Lessee - I should ignore a candidate who I think is GREAT for one who espouses war. djean111 Oct 2015 #13

that is until she debates Duckhunter935 Oct 2015 #17

If anyone dares trying the crap that she was bullied because of being a woman... SoapBox Oct 2015 #25

If gun control is you number one issue, vote O' Malley. McCamy Taylor Oct 2015 #23

No she doesn't. Fearless Oct 2015 #26

elleng

(130,865 posts)

1. Martin O'Malley has ALREADY done it, stands to Sanders and hrc's lefts.

Reply to RandySF (Original post)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:34 PM

Oct 2015

PREVENTING AND REDUCING GUN VIOLENCE

Week after week, more images of horrific gun violence flash across our TV and computer
screens. These tragedies aren’t isolated incidents; they are part of a full-blown—and entirely
preventable—epidemic. We cannot afford to sit by and let this constant heartbreak become the
norm.

As a nation, it is time for sensible gun safety laws that save lives. That is why Governor
O’Malley has set a national goal of cutting deaths from gun violence in half within 10 years.

As Governor of Maryland, O’Malley implemented some of the toughest measures in the nation
to reduce gun violence. He put in place licensing, fingerprinting, background checks, and safety
training requirements for all buyers. If a firearm was lost or stolen, owners were required to
immediately notify law enforcement. And Maryland prohibited the sale of assault weapons and
limited the size of magazines—all while protecting the state’s proud hunting tradition.
Governor O’Malley is calling for the nation to adopt similar, commonsense reforms.

http://martinomalley.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/OMalley-Gun-Violence-Prevention.pdf

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

2. This campaign issue by Hillary increasingly has the whiff of opportunism to it.

Reply to RandySF (Original post)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:34 PM

Oct 2015

If she pushes too hard on this right now, a lot of people are going to take notice of the timing.

RandySF

(58,776 posts)

4. The Clintons are not new to the issue.

Reply to leveymg (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:36 PM

Oct 2015

He signed a law banning assault weapons (which was repealed).

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

9. I didn't say it's a bad issue (quite the opposite), but the timing may be.

Reply to RandySF (Reply #4)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:39 PM

Oct 2015

RandySF

(58,776 posts)

11. The president himself said it's time to politicize the gun issue.

Reply to leveymg (Reply #9)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:40 PM

Oct 2015

leveymg

(36,418 posts)

12. That was an immediate, emotional reaction. She seems to be gleeful and gloating.

Reply to RandySF (Reply #11)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:43 PM

Oct 2015

I'm sure she feels the immediate rush of gaining traction, as she hasn't for months. But, this could have unintended results.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)

19. Bernie voted to ban assault weapons too.

Reply to RandySF (Reply #4)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 12:05 AM

Oct 2015

In 1994, however, Sanders voted in favor of the final version of the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, a bill that expanded the federal death penalty. Sanders had voted for an amendment to the bill that would have replaced all federal death sentences with life in prison. Even though the amendment failed, Sanders still voted for the larger crime bill.

A spokesman for Sanders said he voted for the bill "because it included the Violence Against Women Act and the ban on certain assault weapons."

Sanders reiterated his opposition to capital punishment in 2015. "I just don’t think the state itself, whether it’s the state government or federal government, should be in the business of killing people," he said on a radio show.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/02/viral-image/where-do-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-stand-/

Sanders Votes for Background Checks, Assault Weapons Ban

WASHINGTON, April 17 – Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) today voted for expanded background checks on gun buyers and for a ban on assault weapons but the Senate rejected those central planks of legislation inspired by the shootings of 20 first-grade students and six teachers in Newtown, Conn.

“Nobody believes that gun control by itself is going to end the horrors we have seen in Newtown, Conn., Aurora, Colo., Blacksburg, Va., Tucson, Ariz. and other American communities,” Sanders said. “There is a growing consensus, however, in Vermont and across America that we have got to do as much as we can to end the cold-blooded, mass murders of innocent people. I believe very strongly that we also have got to address the mental health crisis in our country and make certain that help is available for people who may be a danger to themselves and others,” Sanders added.

The amendment on expanded background checks needed 60 votes to pass but only 54 senators voted for it. “To my mind it makes common sense to keep these weapons out of the hands of people with criminal records or mental health histories,” Sanders said.

Under current federal law, background checks are not performed for tens of thousands of sales – up to 40 percent of all gun transfers – at gun shows or over the Internet. The amendment would have required background checks for all gun sales in commercial settings regardless of whether the seller is a licensed dealer. The compromise proposal would have exempted sales between “family, friends, and neighbors.”

In a separate roll call, the Senate rejected a proposal to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. That proposal was defeated by a vote of 60 to 40.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

14. camp weathervane

Reply to leveymg (Reply #2)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:58 PM

Oct 2015

has had a temporary shift until she needs the3 rural or independent votes. Next she will be in an orange jacket hunting saying she is just like them, lol

Aerows

(39,961 posts)

20. Semi-rural voter here

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 12:08 AM

Oct 2015

and she's not like us.

SoapBox

(18,791 posts)

24. She'll look like she's pandering.

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #14)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 01:58 AM

Oct 2015

And this Weathervane routine simply brings on the Trust issue...

I do not trust her.

artislife

(9,497 posts)

3. It will be interesting to see

Reply to RandySF (Original post)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:34 PM

Oct 2015

how this plays out for votes.

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)

5. She is what?

Reply to RandySF (Original post)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:37 PM

Oct 2015

All I can glean from this post and the linked article is that Clinton expects to advocate tighter firearms restrictions than Sanders would support. She promises to oppose the NRA, a group that consistently gives Sanders and Clinton low approval ratings. I think I'll wait for some specifics before deciding if the Clinton proposal is god, bad, or perhaps just rhetorical.

peacebird

(14,195 posts)

6. Except in the military, then she's all McCain "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb bomb Iran!"

Reply to RandySF (Original post)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:37 PM

Oct 2015

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)

7. Since when is addressing both mental health and gun control an "NRA talking point"?

Reply to RandySF (Original post)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:38 PM

Oct 2015

Bernie Sanders Terrifies The NRA With Consensus Plan To Reduce Mass Shootings
By: Jason Easley
Monday, October 5th, 2015, 6:01 pm

Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) became the NRA’s worse nightmare by announcing consensus steps that can be taken to lessen the number of mass shootings in the US.

In a statement, Sen. Sanders said:

Like the rest of the nation, I am appalled by gun violence in our country and the mass shootings in our churches and colleges,” Sanders said. “While there is no simple fix, that does not mean we should do nothing. The status quo clearly is not working and people on both sides of this issue cannot simply continue shouting at each other. Nobody wants more mass killings and serious people are going to have to engage in serious discussion.”

In my view, there are very concrete steps we can take to lessen the number of tragedies and to make those that happen less lethal, including ideas supported by a majority of gun owners.

Sanders went on to detail some of the steps:

– We must strengthen and better enforce the instant background check system.

– We must close the gun-show loophole, which allows unlicensed dealers to sell guns to people who otherwise would not be able to get them.

– We must make ‘straw man’ purchases a federal crime.

– We must ban semi-automatic assault weapons which are designed strictly for killing human beings.

– We must recognize that our mental health system is seriously broken. While there has been much talk about mental health parity in our health care system, we are not even close to achieving it. It’s past time for a serious discussion about identifying, intervening and treating mental illness and ensuring access to care.

...

The worst nightmare of the NRA and others is that a political leader will emerge who can build a consensus on common-sense gun reforms. Bernie Sanders is a successful politician from a pro-gun state. Despite what Clinton supporters may want to believe, Sen. Sanders has never been a friend to the NRA.

What troubles the NRA most isn’t the idea of radical liberal boogeyman coming to take away all of the guns, that illusion is just a sales pitch that is designed to inspire fear and drive up sales. What really scares the NRA is the possibility of a national grassroots movement that forces changes that they can’t stop.

Bernie Sanders is building exactly the kind of movement that should scare the NRA. The revolution is growing, and it is being led by a politician who can’t be bought with gun industry dollars.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/10/05/bernie-sanders-terrifies-nra-consensus-plan-reduce-mass-shootings.html

RandySF

(58,776 posts)

8. Because that's the NRA meme since Sandy Hook

Reply to beam me up scottie (Reply #7)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:39 PM

Oct 2015

to deflect attention to mental health.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)

10. So you don't agree with Obama that it's part of the problem?

Reply to RandySF (Reply #8)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:40 PM

Oct 2015

The Obama administration took steps to tighten gun background checks to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill as the president’s broader gun-control proposals remain stalled in Congress.

The White House said yesterday that the Justice and Health and Human Services Departments were proposing changes in regulations to clarify who under U.S. law is prohibited from possessing a firearm for mental health reasons. The proposals would also make it easier for states to submit information about the mentally ill to the background check system.

“The administration is committed to making sure that anyone who may pose a danger to themselves or others does not have access to a gun,” according to the White House statement. “The federal background check system is the most effective way to assure that such individuals are not able to purchase a firearm from a licensed gun dealer.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-01-03/obama-seeks-tighter-mental-health-restrictions-on-guns

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

15. but, but, but, but

Reply to beam me up scottie (Reply #10)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:59 PM

Oct 2015

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)

16. He really doesn't see how bad this shameless exploitation makes him look.

Reply to Duckhunter935 (Reply #15)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 12:01 AM

Oct 2015

If he really cared about the issue he would present the facts instead of gaslighting.

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

18. I know, right

Reply to beam me up scottie (Reply #16)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 12:03 AM

Oct 2015

DebJ

(7,699 posts)

21. According to NIH, people with mental illness are LESS likely to be a perpetrator in a shooting

Reply to beam me up scottie (Reply #10)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 12:45 AM

Oct 2015

than people without that health problem.

Interesting, huh?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4318286/

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)

22. I am aware of this. So you don't think mental illness is part of the problem either?

Reply to DebJ (Reply #21)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 12:47 AM

Oct 2015

DebJ

(7,699 posts)

27. I don't think that if a magic wand was waved to resolve that issue, that this would resolve

Reply to beam me up scottie (Reply #22)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:30 PM

Oct 2015

the massive numbers of deaths from shootings.

Going back to a world where people had basic respect for each other, instead of where at least 1 in 3 seem to get up in the morning looking for something to hate about some class of people they have chosen to hate, would be a good start.

No guns, no gun deaths, remains very true.

DebJ

(7,699 posts)

28. And what I've read about quite a few of the perpetrators is what they often have in common,

Reply to DebJ (Reply #27)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:33 PM

Oct 2015

is a sense of powerlessness. They feel their lives are being ruined by others, and so, they decide to take action
and take them out.

Giving the power back to the people, taking it away from corporations, getting back competition in radio so Clear Channel
doesn't continuously flood the air waves with hate filled crap, would help.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)

29. I think reaching out to kids and teaching tolerance is a good first step.

Reply to DebJ (Reply #28)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 04:34 PM

Oct 2015

Classes on different cultures, religions, etc.

It would be great if we can get to them before they learn to hate.

djean111

(14,255 posts)

13. Lessee - I should ignore a candidate who I think is GREAT for one who espouses war.

Reply to RandySF (Original post)

Mon Oct 5, 2015, 11:47 PM

Oct 2015

A "more muscular" foreign policy. That, my dears, means guns and bombs. lots of them. lots of dead people.
A Centrist basically telling us to vote for another Centrist over one issue.
In your dreams.

Duckhunter935

(16,974 posts)

17. that is until she debates

Reply to djean111 (Reply #13)

Tue Oct 6, 2015, 12:02 AM

Oct 2015

and some here on DU are saying she must be treated with kid gloves because she is some poor little lady. What utter hogwash.

She is a hawk who pushed for war