I agree so much! I do wish there weren't any name-calling and unpleasantness, but otherwise I agree.

One of my fondest dreams is to meet you one day.

People are watching, after all.

Have a Wonderful Evening, and send me bill.

Some of "us" are Rockefeller Republicans who've been forced to flee the party of increasing craziness and have been gradually sinking their hooks into OUR party over the years.

Forgive me, I'm about to go sleep like a baby.

..oh, wait, there might be a small problem with that.

Who believes government has a valid role to play in regulation and providing goods and services. Privatizers are not welcome. Drive the crazies out of your own party please.

I'm not invading someone else's party.

And, for what it's worth, nothing hastens my departure from a conversation faster than negative shots. Showcase your candidate's assets and there's no need to trash the other. Even when I grocery shop I buy something because I like it, not because I dislike something else. But that's just me. And, yes, it's a whole nother thing when republicans are involved, then the claws get sharpened.

and objectives.

but there's a very vocal group on the team that insists that Charlie Brown MUST be the pitcher, because, polls! And it's his turn! And Linus gets cranky!

I will never come one this site and bash HRC! Bernie is my candidate, but Hillary Rodham Clinton would make a fine Democratic POTUS and will vote for her if she wins the nomination, The two parties are NOT the same, as some have suggested. Hillary is NOT republican lite. She is Democratic Strong and I admire her.

... a handful of social justice issues is not beating the Republicans. It's falling for the con that's being played on us.

Thanks!! Clarity in brevity. Very well said, Scuba.

Wall Street reform? Nope. Climate change? Nope. Women's right to choose? Nope. Expanding healthcare? Nope. College affordability? Nope. Gun control? Nope. Raising wages? Nope. Unions? Nope. Marriage equality? Nope. Equal pay? Nope. Etc etc etc.

Wall St reform -- Tinkering at the edges because....Well, the abuses became too obvious to ignore. But leaving the monopolistic, inherently corrupt systematic problems in place.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2010/01/bank-merger-history




Climate Change?.....Okay. depending on when and what aspect one looks at.

Women's Rights to Choose -- Absolutely

Expanding healthcare -- Yes and No. Again some improvements to a bad system, but no steps towards truly universal and affordable public care system as an alternative...In fact, stepping in the opposite direction, by pre-empting positive change with a GOP-inspired substitute that further embeds Big Insurance and forces people to buy a private product many cannot afford.

College Affordability -- Depends on whether you want to view access to public higher education as a public right available for everyone, regardless of financial situation or something the poor have to work harder for.

Raising Wages? Where have they been all these years?


Unions -- Mainly lip service. Certainly better than the GOP but....

Marriage Equality -- Same as the GOP until the pressure and public acceptance and legal status forced their hands

Equal Pay -- Better than the GOP

etc.etc.etc.

That is literally the definition of lip service. Hillary released policy proposals, where are the other candidates policy proposals?

and what he is saying now , one can get a very clear idea of where he stands. Google is your friend if you really care to find out in more detail what kind of policies and proposals he supports.

He started a campaign from the ground up -- and he is the first to acknowledge that his campaign has had a lot of work to do to catch up with the surprising momentum it has generated. That includes having to develop specific platform and proposals. And at this point he has been focused on getting out the basic message, which is not "Business as usual."

But it's there is you really care to find it.

Wall Street reform: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-financial-regulation/
Climate change: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-climate-change/
Women's right to choose: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-womens-rights/
Expanding Healthcare: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-healthcare/
College affordability: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-education/
Gun control: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-gun-policy/
Raising wages: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-minimum-wage/
Unions: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-workers-rights/
Marriage equality: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-lgbtq-rights/
Equal pay: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-equal-pay/
Black rights: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-black-rights/
Racial justice: http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-racial-justice/

Next?

So either Sanders is also really close to being a Republican, or you're wrong. They really aren't that far apart.

then vote differently on Iraq, and we're supposed to believe that this amounts to a 1% difference?

Just that one of those peas voted for an unjust war.

Chimpanzee and bonobo DNA differs from human DNA by only 1.2%.

Human, chimp, and bonobo DNA differs from gorilla DNA by only 1.6%

Human, chimp, bonobo, and gorilla DNA differs from rhesus monkey DNA by about 7%!
(http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics)

So according to the Smithsonian Institute, science, and your 7% figure, Hillary is as different from Bernie as you are different from a rhesus monkey - 7% different!

but I really do think the OP is right on about how we go about this.

What is most important to me is ending the center-right bloc in the Democratic party...not beating the GOP. That's a losing strategy and being distracted by the "laundry", so to speak. That means no support for Clinton or her brand of Democratic politics ever. I view a GOP win and a Clinton win as equal evils. I'm done compromising with the enemy to elect Democrats not worth our support who should have been thrown out of the party decades ago.

Because the Democratic Party is not going to expunge 80% to 90% of its members and supporters.

It seems far more likely that the "establishment" leadership of the party is to the right of the base. Substantially so.

that's certainly going to impact what average people are going to think, and embed a sense of defeatism and fatalism abiut the prospects for positive progress and real reform.

an H-1B visaholder, THEY ARE NOT ON MY TEAM!

Fuck that.

I don't want things to "not be worse".

I want things to be better.

Doing the same old shit we have for the past thirty years is not better.

Look at the LGBT community. Did we sit down and increment and pragmatic our way forward? No. We said, "Nothing less will do," and we went out there and fought our asses for it. We didn't run scared or worry, "Oh no! Let's not ask for this! What will the Religious Right think?! They might vote against us!" They did, they do. We don't care. We fight for our shit.

Hillary will be a line-holder at best, a repeat, a damaging anachronism and perpetrator of a failed system that is generating inequality at an astronomical clip, a military industrial disposition that will create more conflict and death in the world, and a friend of policies that degrade the American economy for the American worker.

No. No. No. No. No.

That's not my team. Not at all.

The Turd Way isn't on my team but rather working to assimilate and shackle it.

Our county party holds social functions of one sort or another on a regular basis, because keeping in touch with each other helps us to a.) remain cohesive, and b.) see and remember that we are ALL Democrats, even when we disagree about things.

Last night was no different. There were pictures and signs supporting each one of the announced candidates, discussions were lively and there was 100% agreement that everyone liked SOMETHING about every candidate, regardless of which candidate one personally favored. There was also 100% agreement that ANY of our candidates, even the one we liked the least, was still infinitely better than any Republican.

As you note, DU is not the 'real world', and the vast majority of Democrats don't dislike or loathe any but their chosen candidate.

prowar, procorporations, and flim flam pandering candidates are not on my "team" as i see it.

but i agree with you that losing sleep is not going to help anything.

When you start to get mad, GO AWAY! Play with your kids or pets, watch a movie, read a book (not about politics).

I love the game, LOVE IT! I am firmly behind my candidate. I don't mind getting mad since I have learned to leave. I don't really care what others think of my ideas or writing. You are so right on with this. ***it really is not a game but here it often feels like it***

We are all passionate but we don't all act very well with that. Me included, I have been pretty shitty occasionally. Only had 1 hide in 13 (WOW) years and that was way back in the first election after I joined so I guess that is pretty good.

SAME side. Huge differences in our candidates but yes, the same side. Those differences are very important but mad does not help.

Have a great day and go outside if you get mad. Mad helps nobody.

I too, sleep well. And my end game is getting a Democratic President.

Don't have time for excessive snark though.

And I'm sorry but we're not.

Many of us see Hillary as part of the overall problem with politics and an enabler of the "old guard". We see her as nothing less than the "same old, same old" and we don't trust her. At all. Period. None.

This is the difference between Hillary supporters and many Bernie supporters. Many, like myself, are actually registered independents who are to the left of dems on many issues. Bernie and Warren are really the only 2 candidates who represent us and other than that, we see people like Hillary no different than Bob Dole era Republicans.

You say "Wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which does you the most good. When things don't go your way? Get the fuck over it. Get the fuck over it or get left behind" yet we have. We've gotten it and are supporting a candidate who represents us. See, us indy's are the largest voting block in America Represent us and you have the presidency and right now, Bernie is doing just that.

Sorry but we're not a lot alike and many things Hillary stands for I fucking can't stand. Nope. She's not for me.

That's the team we're all in. Or at least most of us are.

And it's not a game for us. It's life or death, a future of ever worsening slums and poverty, or a future of increasing equality again. Children who grow up better off than their parents, or children who, like us, are doing worse off than them.

And only one candidate is going to ever even start us in the direction of economic equality.

I find myself arguing about something I believe it, and getting really intense about it, and then I realize:

1. this person will NEVER change positions on this - not in a million years

2. even if he/she did, it would make absolutely no difference in anything at all - it is just one person, who probably doesn't even vote

It totally pisses me off when I hear people say they won't vote at all if their candidate doesn't win the primary. The way I see it, those people have the potential to be as seriously damaging to our future as all the buffoons on the right.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

"...which does you the most good."

Easy... the wish. Wishes becomes dreams, dreams become goals, goals become reality.

Your other alternative is a handful of shit.

There are at least two significant divisions within the party. Those being the corporate sponsored DLC Third Way and the people friendly progressives. Unifying this division is not a task with simple solutions - singing camp songs no longer cuts it. So no, we are no longer on the same team and probably never will be again.

Some of us less outspoken ones at DU totally agree with you.

But when I've read over and over again that many Bernie backers will never vote for Hillary in the GE should she win the democratic nomination, I have to believe what they are saying.

I'm voting democratic, Hillary, O'Malley or Bernie.

Sadly many Bernie backers are going to go home and sulk if their guy doesn't win.