2016 Postmortem

Uncle Joe

(58,284 posts) Sat Oct 10, 2015, 01:46 PM Oct 2015

In Debate Preview, Bernie Sanders Criticizes Hillary Clinton for Iraq Vote

Mrs. Clinton’s vote in 2002 authorizing the use of force of Iraq, which then-President George W. Bush sought, became a defining issue in her 2008 presidential primary against then-Senator Barack Obama. Mr. Obama used that vote to raise questions about Mrs. Clinton’s judgment and her character.

Mrs. Clinton never explicitly called that vote a mistake during that primary, despite pleas from some of her advisers to do just that. Instead, she moved away from it slowly, ultimately saying that had she known then what she later knew, she wouldn’t have voted that way.

She finally said she was “wrong” in her memoir, “Hard Choices,” which was released in 2014. But this debate will be the first event with her fellow candidates where she will make that point.

The Sanders campaign indicated it would make a contrast with Mrs. Clinton by highlighting a speech Mr. Sanders made on the House floor in October 2002, opposing the American invasion, which it called “one of the worst foreign policy blunders in the history of the United States.”

The release pointed out that in his speech, Mr. Sanders cited massive American military casualties and Iraqi civilians, the “effectiveness of the war” on “international terrorism,” the potential costs, the precedent that it would set and “who would govern Iraq after Saddam Hussein was overthrown and what role the United States would play in the civil war that followed.”

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/10/10/in-debate-preview-bernie-sanders-criticizes-hillary-clinton-for-iraq-vote/

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20 replies

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In Debate Preview, Bernie Sanders Criticizes Hillary Clinton for Iraq Vote (Original Post) Uncle Joe Oct 2015 OP

Good. I hope he asks her "why" she voted for and vocally supported the slaughter. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #1

Hmmm. He'd better watch out, because he's got vulnerabilities too. MADem Oct 2015 #2

All God's children got vulnerabiliites Fumesucker Oct 2015 #4

We all have vulnerabilities Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #5

I don't expect Sanders to comment on Clinton votes, per se HereSince1628 Oct 2015 #3

he wont be the only one restorefreedom Oct 2015 #6

Yes but Bernie needs to prepare for Jim Webb's attack from the left. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #9

I think there will be left, and there will be right, and there will be middle at this thing. nt MADem Oct 2015 #10

The trillion dollar question is, "what is this thing?" n/t Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #11

Webb...attacking from the left? jeff47 Oct 2015 #12

Two articles convinced me of this possibility. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #14

Problem is your first article is the antithesis of Webb. jeff47 Oct 2015 #15

Not according to Wikipedia. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #16

His criticism of the Iraq war at the time was essentially jeff47 Oct 2015 #17

Well that's good to hear in regards to him attacking Bernie from the left. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #18

i have to admit restorefreedom Oct 2015 #13

Not a surprise FloridaBlues Oct 2015 #7

For sure. And she deserves to be called out on it. Hortensis Oct 2015 #8

Automatic rec. Catherina Oct 2015 #19

Automatic hug. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #20

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)

1. Good. I hope he asks her "why" she voted for and vocally supported the slaughter.

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 01:49 PM

Oct 2015

MADem

(135,425 posts)

2. Hmmm. He'd better watch out, because he's got vulnerabilities too.

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 01:54 PM

Oct 2015

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)

4. All God's children got vulnerabiliites

Reply to MADem (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 02:02 PM

Oct 2015

Uncle Joe

(58,284 posts)

5. We all have vulnerabilities

Reply to MADem (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 02:07 PM

Oct 2015

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)

3. I don't expect Sanders to comment on Clinton votes, per se

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 02:01 PM

Oct 2015

I expect Sanders to talk about policies and mention that his positions are not shared by anonymous 'other' candidate(s).

Both Sanders and Clinton are said (mostly by opponents supporters) to have tempers with short fuses. I would expect the questions being asked by whatever panel of questioners there is at the even to attempt to ignite those fuses rather than one of the candidates.

Only in the case where a question has put a candidate in a seriously compromising position would I expect any temper to be expressed at all.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)

6. he wont be the only one

Reply to Uncle Joe (Original post)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 02:09 PM

Oct 2015

chafee and sanders voted against it, and i believe om was against it also.
and it won't just be irw, but her hawk positions on other issues.. chafee has already said one of his primary reasons for getting in was to keep the war issue in people"s minds.

gonna be a tough crowd to sell war to

Uncle Joe

(58,284 posts)

9. Yes but Bernie needs to prepare for Jim Webb's attack from the left.

Reply to restorefreedom (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 02:20 PM

Oct 2015

I could be wrong but I believe Webb will do his best to obfuscate the differences between Bernie and Hillary.

MADem

(135,425 posts)

10. I think there will be left, and there will be right, and there will be middle at this thing. nt

Reply to Uncle Joe (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 02:29 PM

Oct 2015

Uncle Joe

(58,284 posts)

11. The trillion dollar question is, "what is this thing?" n/t

Reply to MADem (Reply #10)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 02:34 PM

Oct 2015

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

12. Webb...attacking from the left?

Reply to Uncle Joe (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 03:00 PM

Oct 2015

That's a little like Sanders having to prepare for Chaffetz attacking from the left.

Uncle Joe

(58,284 posts)

14. Two articles convinced me of this possibility.

Reply to jeff47 (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 03:14 PM

Oct 2015

This first article makes no mention of Hillary Clinton it just criticizes President Obama, Bernie and liberals in general supporting him.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/10/dumb_bernie_sanders_delusions_progressives_who_champion_sanders_need_to_consider_this_and_no_its_not_the_supreme_court/

This second article purports that Webb doesn't seem to be even trying hard to even set up a campaign for the Presidency.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/10/jim-webb-isnt-actually-running-president-guys

jeff47

(26,549 posts)

15. Problem is your first article is the antithesis of Webb.

Reply to Uncle Joe (Reply #14)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 03:59 PM

Oct 2015

He's all for blowing up more people. He's more of a hawk than Clinton.

Uncle Joe

(58,284 posts)

16. Not according to Wikipedia.

Reply to jeff47 (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 10, 2015, 04:16 PM

Oct 2015

Webb does have strong military connections but I wouldn't put him the camp of American Empire.

Edit to add At least to the point of supporting the wars with Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Webb

In a 1990 New York Times opinion piece, Webb opposed further U.S. military escalation in Saudi Arabia during Operation Desert Shield citing lack of a coherent strategy and consent from the United States Congress. He also warned against a permanent military presence in the Middle East.[29] Seven months before the beginning of the 2003 Iraq War, Webb wrote an essay for the Washington Post in which he

“ questioned whether an overthrow of Saddam would "actually increase our ability to win the war against international terrorism" and pointed out that the measure of military success can be preventing wars as well as fighting them. He charged, "those who are pushing for a unilateral war in Iraq know full well that there is no exit strategy if we invade." He concluded, "the Iraqis are a multiethnic people filled with competing factions who in many cases would view a U.S. occupation as infidels invading the cradle of Islam. … In Japan, American occupation forces quickly became 50,000 friends. In Iraq, they would quickly become 50,000 terrorist targets."[30] ”

During the 2004 presidential campaign, Webb wrote an op-ed piece for USA Today in which he, as a military veteran, evaluated the candidacies of John Kerry and George W. Bush. He criticized Kerry for the nature of his opposition to the Vietnam War in the 1970s while affiliated with the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, and accused Bush of using his father's connections to avoid service in Vietnam. Webb wrote that Bush had "committed the greatest strategic blunder in modern memory" with the 2003 invasion of Iraq.[31]