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pinebox

(5,761 posts)
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 12:18 PM Oct 2015

6 Signs That Show the New Hillary Is Still the Old Hillary

Well, this is rather eye opening.
Obviously I am supporting Bernie and this is just a list of of *some* reasons why I am. I simply don't understand why her supporters are giving her a pass, I don't. There are serious issues here which call into question her authenticity and her motives, yet she's given a pass like none of these things every happens.

No, I don't get it.

I am really cutting this article down a great deal so if you want to read it all please check the link. It's eye opening.

6 Signs That Show the New Hillary Is Still the Old Hillary
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/six-signs-show-new-hillary-still-old-hillary

1. Expanding Social Security. (sic) As Poole wrote, “What alarmed Social Security activists is that underneath Clinton’s positive language—‘fully support, ‘enhance’ —appears to lie support for policies, including from leading conservatives like Pete Peterson—that would actually undermine Social Security.” Republican Paul Ryan, the House Ways and Means Committee chair, uses the same language to protest the poorest people, but “would reduce benefits for the top 70 percent of wage earners while maintaining benefits for the bottom 30 percent,” Poole said. “The last thing we need right now is to fear a Trojan horse from a presidential candidate who says she ‘fully supports’ Social Security.”

2. Wall Street reformer? (sic) “She’s sort of talking out of both sides of her mouth: She wants to go against Wall Street, but she won’t support [reviving] Glass-Steagall,” Stein said. “Glass-Steagall being the law that separated speculative banking from everyday consumer banking and…prevents banks from taking risks at consumers’ burden… it prevents bailouts from going forward. So, you know, Glass-Steagall was repealed under the Clinton administration and needs to be brought back. But Senator Clinton does not support it.”

3. Criminal justice and prison reformer? During one of the few exchanges on criminal justice—when legalizing marijuana came up—Clinton said, “We have got to stop imprisoning people… We need more states, cities, and the federal government to begin to address this so that we don't have this terrible result that Senator Sanders was talking about where we have a huge population in our prisons for nonviolent, low-level offenses that are primarily due to marijuana.” According to the Marshall Project, an investigative journalism website tracking criminal justice, only a very small percentage of prison overcrowding is due to nonviolent drug offenses. In 2014, only 3.6 percent of people in state prison were there for drug offenses, and 0.3 percent were in federal prison for pot. “As TPM’s Dana Goldstein pointed out, any attempt to cut incarceration by as much as 50 percent—the target of some reformers—will require shorter sentences not just for marijuana, not just for drugs, and not just for crimes considered nonviolent,” the Marshall Project wrote. “But that’s not an easy sell during a highly competitive campaign season.”

4. It’s not just those "damn emails." As Sanders said, enough with covering her use of a private email server while Secretary of State. When asked, Clinton replied, “What I did was allowed by the State Department.” But FactCheck.org has repeatedly noted http://www.factcheck.org/2015/10/factchecking-the-democratic-debate/ “that’s not the full story,” saying she didn’t follow the rules on turning over her records for “nearly two years after she left office.”

5. The outsider: really? It's hard to believe that one of the world's most famous and powerful women sees herself as an outsider in the race. But she does, rejecting moderator Anderson Cooper’s contention that she was asking Democrats to vote for an insider. Clinton replied, “Well, I can’t think of anything that's more outsider than electing the first woman president, but I’m not just running because I would be the first woman president. I’m running because I have a lifetime of experience and getting results and fighting for people, fighting for kids, for women, for families, fighting to even the odds.” Everybody knows Clinton would be the first woman president—it was one of her top rallying points in 2008. And for many women who grew up with her in the 1970s and '80s, this is very compelling: they are tired of waiting for their turn to be in power. But other feminists feel it’s an insufficient selling point, and more yesterday than today.

6. The Trans-Pacific Partnership. At the debate, Cooper cited how Clinton had revised her position on the proposed Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement and asked, “Will you say anything to get elected?" She replied no, saying she “hoped” the TPP would be a “gold standard” but the final just-released document did not meet her standards. FactCheck.org, which traces candidate's positions and records, said that Clinton has solidly supported the TPP for a long time. It quoted her remarks from Australia in 2012: “This TPP sets the gold standard in trade agreements to open free, transparent, fair trade, the kind of environment that has the rule of law and a level playing field.” http://www.factcheck.org/2015/10/factchecking-the-democratic-debate/ They cited similar remarks days later in Singapore, but noted that she reserved final judgment in her 2014 book, Hard Choices. “Clinton wasn’t qualifying her support for the plan back in 2012," they wrote. "She didn’t say she ‘hoped’ it would be a ‘gold standard.’ She said it was a gold standard.”
26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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6 Signs That Show the New Hillary Is Still the Old Hillary (Original Post) pinebox Oct 2015 OP
K&R! in_cog_ni_to Oct 2015 #1
"I don't want to pay for Donald Trumps's kids to go to college!" aidbo Oct 2015 #2
Yep, I found that totally disgusting. nt Live and Learn Oct 2015 #16
Trump-likes send their kids to private colleges and universities not public universities that DhhD Oct 2015 #24
I understand that, but that also deflects from the point. aidbo Oct 2015 #25
Pitting the middle class against the poor is something that conservatives love to do. stillwaiting Oct 2015 #3
Bingo! Scuba Oct 2015 #22
One sign of sour grapes is 6 sour grapes posts in one day....I thought all the sourness was RW!? Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #4
Huh? RW? pinebox Oct 2015 #5
That you reduce honest criticisms to "sour grapes" Fawke Em Oct 2015 #6
Notice he never offered any counter argument to any of the 6 points. in_cog_ni_to Oct 2015 #14
Sour grapes are nothing compared to the bitter pill you are attempting to make us swallow. Live and Learn Oct 2015 #17
We know that but many of the voters don't Rosa Luxemburg Oct 2015 #7
Everything that comes out of her mouth is azmom Oct 2015 #8
I get it, a lot of people don't like her for the primary 6chars Oct 2015 #9
Candidates are supposed to be scrutinized by voters..even after the primaries. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #11
If she becomes the nominee, both DU rules and common sense will take that into account. Jim Lane Oct 2015 #18
Glad you agree 6chars Oct 2015 #19
With the same old, tired, triangulation tactics and platitudes. K&R Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #10
I will never trust Hillary. I haven't since 2001. CharlotteVale Oct 2015 #12
I understand why people chose Hillary for their candidate olddots Oct 2015 #13
K&R nt Live and Learn Oct 2015 #15
Anyone who actually listens to a greedhead shitheel like Peterson hifiguy Oct 2015 #20
About the 3rd point. Duppers Oct 2015 #21
Drugs pinebox Oct 2015 #23
Thank you! Duppers Oct 2015 #26
 

aidbo

(2,328 posts)
2. "I don't want to pay for Donald Trumps's kids to go to college!"
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 12:37 PM
Oct 2015

Dog whistle for means testing. IMO

DhhD

(4,695 posts)
24. Trump-likes send their kids to private colleges and universities not public universities that
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:19 PM
Oct 2015

Sanders and Warren want to provide for free while Trump pays a larger tax so the People's kids can go to college.

 

aidbo

(2,328 posts)
25. I understand that, but that also deflects from the point.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 12:49 PM
Oct 2015

The point of a free public school system is that anyone can take advantage of it regardless of their income level.

Bernie wants to extend that free public education from K through 12 to K through Public college.

This article talks mostly about means testing for Social Security and Medicare, but is informative.

1. Means-Testing Undermines Progressive Values

At their heart, programs like Medicare and Social Security are about fairness, equality and shared citizenship, values that progressive Americans hold dear.

Medicare and Social Security are not welfare programs. They are benefits that people pay for as they work. They are also smart social insurance programs that spread risk across society in order to protect everyone at rates no private insurance scheme, with its much smaller risk pool, could touch.

When I spoke to Joseph Stiglitz, he discussed the idea that “means-testing is mean.” Programs like Medicare and Social Security, he explained, are matters of political economy. They are important to social cohesion, where support comes from the fact that everybody is participating. “We don’t means-test public education,” explained Stiglitz, “because we believe that we want people to have the same opportunities and we lose out on that with means-testing.” The same is true of our belief that everyone deserves a dignified retirement and adequate medical care in old age.


http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/6-reasons-joseph-stiglitz-and-other-top-economists-think-means-testing-medicare

stillwaiting

(3,795 posts)
3. Pitting the middle class against the poor is something that conservatives love to do.
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 12:39 PM
Oct 2015

Means testing social security is a right-wing dream come true.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
6. That you reduce honest criticisms to "sour grapes"
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 12:56 PM
Oct 2015

shows the banality of Clinton supporters.

I harbor no "sour grapes" toward Clinton. I just can't trust her.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
14. Notice he never offered any counter argument to any of the 6 points.
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 03:46 PM
Oct 2015

That's because he can't. Snark is all they have.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
17. Sour grapes are nothing compared to the bitter pill you are attempting to make us swallow.
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 04:05 PM
Oct 2015

Does this mean you don't have any honest answers to the post?

6chars

(3,967 posts)
9. I get it, a lot of people don't like her for the primary
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 03:09 PM
Oct 2015

but if she is the nominee, are dems still going to be trying to show how bad she is?

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
18. If she becomes the nominee, both DU rules and common sense will take that into account.
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 07:35 PM
Oct 2015

At the moment, she's not the nominee, so why are you asking about a hypothetical future? Are you implying that criticism of any of the Democratic candidates is currently impermissible or inadvisable?

6chars

(3,967 posts)
19. Glad you agree
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 07:44 PM
Oct 2015

I don't see how what i said suggests the implication you ask about. i could just as well be implying that the moon is made of green cheese.

 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
13. I understand why people chose Hillary for their candidate
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 03:43 PM
Oct 2015

yet I feel they don't understand why they choose her.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
20. Anyone who actually listens to a greedhead shitheel like Peterson
Sat Oct 17, 2015, 08:27 PM
Oct 2015

is NO DEMOCRAT and unfit for any public office.

Duppers

(28,120 posts)
21. About the 3rd point.
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 01:30 AM
Oct 2015
50% of inmates in federal prisons are there on Drug Offenses.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs#sthash.OWRv5A3O.dpbs

So, isn't she and Bernie in agreement?

Perhaps I'm not understanding the point. I support Bernie, btw.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
23. Drugs
Sun Oct 18, 2015, 11:56 AM
Oct 2015

Rest of the article reads this (I only snipped it)

Did Clinton intentionally leave out the toughest part of prison reform in her debate comments? It’s hard to know. But there were other instances where she selectively edited or recast history to avoid bolder stances or to duck revealing responses.


Also, there's this...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/24/1405229/-Private-Prison-Corporations-Stand-With-Hillary-Clinton
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