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Polls Minus Biden (Spoiler Alert: Hillary Surge, Part 2) (Original Post) onehandle Oct 2015 OP
Okay. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #1
That may have been one of the factors that caused him to choose not to run. JDPriestly Oct 2015 #22
Yes, she has an enemies list jfern Oct 2015 #32
"Democrat" President? George II Oct 2015 #37
(3rd way Democrat) President not 3rd way (Democrat President) jfern Oct 2015 #39
The quotation marks also made it pretty clear. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #52
baloney. that yammering point is making it's rounds with no tangible proof. Sheepshank Oct 2015 #55
I'm sure the NYT had that ready and waiting. CNN has Clinton/Sanders at 56-33. George II Oct 2015 #2
Lucky for them they released the right one, as I am sure riversedge Oct 2015 #8
Of course they say this. RoccoR5955 Oct 2015 #3
Stop the "people" bull shit upaloopa Oct 2015 #4
Be kind...they've gotten through the "denial" phase... brooklynite Oct 2015 #5
I get riled up easily upaloopa Oct 2015 #12
It's narcissistic too. "I speak for the people!". nt sufrommich Oct 2015 #7
Maybe they know ALL the people. onehandle Oct 2015 #40
Ha ha! RoccoR5955 Oct 2015 #13
If "the people" really supported Sanders, he'd be leading Hillary in the polls. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #19
Please. RoccoR5955 Oct 2015 #23
. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #27
And what is that supposed to be? RoccoR5955 Oct 2015 #30
. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #31
Again. No response RoccoR5955 Oct 2015 #33
. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #35
"The People" are all sheep then hunh?!? uponit7771 Oct 2015 #48
only some...the others are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome Sheepshank Oct 2015 #56
If you say so. RoccoR5955 Oct 2015 #57
You mean we can't do anything but what "the corporations" tell us to do? treestar Oct 2015 #60
Amen! treestar Oct 2015 #59
I am one of the 99% as are many otherrs that support Hillary. William769 Oct 2015 #9
Me, too. MineralMan Oct 2015 #16
It's not a theory. RoccoR5955 Oct 2015 #25
khrushchev basically said the same thing. William769 Oct 2015 #38
Get out there and tell the sheep that treestar Oct 2015 #61
Kick & highly recommended! William769 Oct 2015 #6
Be careful. You need voters to turnout in the election, even us who aren't status quo. mmonk Oct 2015 #10
There wasn't an offensive or attacking word in the op. NCTraveler Oct 2015 #14
Unfortunately, if a Republican wins the GE, we all pay the price, not just Hillary supporters. nt Fla Dem Oct 2015 #24
Great info workinclasszero Oct 2015 #11
Corporations paid for Hillary and they'll be damned sure we get her elected! tecelote Oct 2015 #15
It didn't buy Mitt Romney the presidency. Nt Flying Squirrel Oct 2015 #28
No, it did not. tecelote Oct 2015 #36
Bernie wouldn't change anything nor would any Dem candidate this time. stevenleser Oct 2015 #42
That's similar to the way many Canadians thought. tecelote Oct 2015 #43
The problem is, I'm right. Please list Republican house members who will vote for stevenleser Oct 2015 #44
Defeatist are always right until they are wrong. tecelote Oct 2015 #45
You are confusing defeatism with realism and fact based approaches. stevenleser Oct 2015 #46
Your post: "Bernie wouldn't change anything nor would any Dem candidate this time." tecelote Oct 2015 #47
So then there would be no difference between a HRC or BS presidency? thesquanderer Oct 2015 #53
Correct, at least in terms of what they are able to pass. stevenleser Oct 2015 #54
Deflection, that's not an addressing of the question and Clinton is proposing EOs uponit7771 Oct 2015 #49
MS-4, I think Recursion Oct 2015 #50
I think the aggregate national polling will be MineralMan Oct 2015 #17
My husband and I are a split household. I am backing Bernie and he is HRC CTyankee Oct 2015 #18
i warned Sanders supporters about this. JDPriestly Oct 2015 #20
She can't lose! This is a win for America! Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #21
So says the 1%. RoccoR5955 Oct 2015 #26
The NYT will be just like FOX News was nyabingi Oct 2015 #29
Yes. and the make up these polls RoccoR5955 Oct 2015 #34
Actually Chitown Kev Oct 2015 #51
That looks as I would have expected. DCBob Oct 2015 #41
Interesting there are a small group who go from Biden to Sanders treestar Oct 2015 #58
 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
1. Okay.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:06 PM
Oct 2015

Pretty sure everyone already knew that a Joe run would have drawn more from erstwhile Clinton supporters.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
22. That may have been one of the factors that caused him to choose not to run.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:48 PM
Oct 2015

His speech in the beginning sounded like a Bernie speech.

But it will be politically easier for him to back Hillary.

It takes courage for a politician to back Bernie because Hillary has so much money, and she is very vindictive. She will not forget anyone who does not back her.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
32. Yes, she has an enemies list
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 04:08 PM
Oct 2015

The party is basically the Clinton party, and offers less and less for liberals or people who are sick of tried of DWS running the party into the ground. They don't mind a 3rd way "Democrat" President with a Republican congress, it gives them more excuses for sucking.

George II

(67,782 posts)
37. "Democrat" President?
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 04:19 PM
Oct 2015

Now Sanders supporters are adopting the republican terminology for OUR party?

It's DemocratIC President, unless you're a republican.

jfern

(5,204 posts)
39. (3rd way Democrat) President not 3rd way (Democrat President)
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 04:24 PM
Oct 2015

Parse it that way and it makes sense

thesquanderer

(11,955 posts)
52. The quotation marks also made it pretty clear.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 10:05 AM
Oct 2015

Quotation marks = so-called

therefore

"Democrat" = DINO

 

Sheepshank

(12,504 posts)
55. baloney. that yammering point is making it's rounds with no tangible proof.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 11:36 AM
Oct 2015

In fact if anything, she had learned from Obama, that political campaign opponents does not make an enemy. What possible issue could Hillary have over Biden since he is likley to be out of elected political office once Her Presidency starts.

If she were so vindictive, there would be a string of collateral damage from the last run she had....care to point out a list that would support your silly, sour, assertions?

George II

(67,782 posts)
2. I'm sure the NYT had that ready and waiting. CNN has Clinton/Sanders at 56-33.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:06 PM
Oct 2015

Pretty much a 3-1 or 4-1 split of Biden voters.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
3. Of course they say this.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:09 PM
Oct 2015

They say that Clinton won the debate, and they want her to be the candidate. They have more footage of her than Bernie. They want more money for TV ads. They want a sensational negative campaign. They can't be bothered by issues, and should these polls be true, neither do the people!

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
4. Stop the "people" bull shit
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:17 PM
Oct 2015

Hillary supporters are people not some cable news organization.
The "people" thing is elitist and I am sick of seeing it!

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
13. Ha ha!
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 02:51 PM
Oct 2015

The people are elitist? Are you sure that you are not projecting that?
How do you know that the polling outfit didn't craft the questions to get the answer that they wanted? I did not see these questions in the article, nor did I see them in any articles that state that either candidate is ahead.
I am not being elitist, I am just calling it as I see it. AFAIC, "good" polling outfits take these polls for someone. When they do that, they already know the answer that they want from the respondents. They craft their questions in such a way as to get whatever answer that they want. I have been called several times, and this is always the case. I therefore have little faith in ANY poll any more.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
19. If "the people" really supported Sanders, he'd be leading Hillary in the polls.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:42 PM
Oct 2015

By logic, The People overwhelmingly support Hillary and want her to be president.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
23. Please.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:55 PM
Oct 2015

The corporations own this country, and will influence the vote however they see fit. If it means rigging polls, or rigging elections.
If you don't see this, you have either bought into their propaganda, or are a tool.

By logic. What logic? Flawed logic? Please define what you mean by "by logic," and tell me the "logical" points that make Clinton a better candidate than any other candidate. Thanks in advance.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
30. And what is that supposed to be?
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 04:06 PM
Oct 2015

Just posting a snarky icon instead of answering my question?
Or can you answer it?
I'm not really sure.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
33. Again. No response
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 04:09 PM
Oct 2015

Just a snarky avatar.
This is what I get from RepubliCONs. Are you sure that you are not one of them. You are certainly using their same tactics.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
57. If you say so.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:14 PM
Oct 2015

I believe that most people are "sheep." They follow who others deem are "popular," without doing much to consider why they are doing this.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
60. You mean we can't do anything but what "the corporations" tell us to do?
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:42 PM
Oct 2015

We are that mindless?

And the polls are a part of a conspiracy to elect Hillary?

You seriously expect people to believe this?

William769

(55,124 posts)
9. I am one of the 99% as are many otherrs that support Hillary.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 01:27 PM
Oct 2015

Kind of blows your theory out of the water now doesn't it?

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
25. It's not a theory.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:57 PM
Oct 2015

It's a fact. The corporate media has corrupted the system. Moneyed interests are going to be the end of Humanity. Capitalism shall lead to extinction. Mark my words.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
14. There wasn't an offensive or attacking word in the op.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 02:57 PM
Oct 2015

It is actually something all political watchers are interested in. With that taken care of, your overall point is spot on. If Hillary wins the primary, she will need you. At least a good portion of current Sanders supporters. Same goes if Sanders wins the primary. He will need us in strong numbers.

Fla Dem

(23,352 posts)
24. Unfortunately, if a Republican wins the GE, we all pay the price, not just Hillary supporters. nt
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:56 PM
Oct 2015

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
15. Corporations paid for Hillary and they'll be damned sure we get her elected!
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:28 PM
Oct 2015

Just maybe, money doesn't buy everything.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
36. No, it did not.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 04:16 PM
Oct 2015

It may not buy this election either.

This time the stakes are higher - Barack is good, Hillary will be good but Bernie will change America forever.

Time for a new deal.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
42. Bernie wouldn't change anything nor would any Dem candidate this time.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 07:21 PM
Oct 2015

We will have a Republican House of Representatives until 2023 which will not pass anything transformative.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
43. That's similar to the way many Canadians thought.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 07:26 PM
Oct 2015

But... enough of them didn't listen to this type of crap. They won.

Time for a new deal.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
44. The problem is, I'm right. Please list Republican house members who will vote for
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 07:30 PM
Oct 2015

Progressive bills. Alternatively, please list the Republican gerrymandered districts you think we can flip to Democratic such that it is enough so that control of the House will flip.

I'll save you the time, you will fail on both counts.

Our government and voters are not the Canadian government and voters.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
45. Defeatist are always right until they are wrong.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 07:37 PM
Oct 2015

So, listening to you, why vote? It won't matter.

Republicans are so scattered they don't even agree among themselves. Bernie at least will fight for change. You propose we just accept the status quo. I believe it is important we don't listen to defeatists and vote our conscience.

You can hide in a hole. I'll stand tall and vote for Bernie.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
46. You are confusing defeatism with realism and fact based approaches.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:39 PM
Oct 2015

I know what we need to do to succeed. We need to win back state houses so we can reverse the gerrymandering after the 2020 election and it will affect the 2022 election whose winners take office in Jan 2023. That is not defeatism, that is realism backed by how elections and redistricting works.

I know that until we do that Republicans will control the House. That is not defeatism, that is realism.

I know if Republicans control the House, they will not pass virtually anything that a Democratic President proposes. That is not defeatism, that is analysis of nearly 16 years of the current and prior Democratic Presidents. In other words, it's not defeatism, it's realism backed by experience.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
47. Your post: "Bernie wouldn't change anything nor would any Dem candidate this time."
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 02:27 AM
Oct 2015

"We will have a Republican House of Representatives until 2023 which will not pass anything transformative."

Realism can be defeatist. You just proved it.

I'll still vote with hope in my heart. It's the only way forward.

Maybe it takes another decade but that's still better than the alternatives.

thesquanderer

(11,955 posts)
53. So then there would be no difference between a HRC or BS presidency?
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 10:32 AM
Oct 2015

Assuming you're right, that Republicans will control the House until at least 2023 and that they will not pass virtually anything that a Democratic President proposes, then it sounds like there would be, in practice, virtually no difference between a Clinton or Sanders presidency, correct?

If that's the case, I'd still rather see Sanders there if only symbolically. If nothing else, he moves the conversation further left, which is at least a small step, versus no step. You have to start somewhere, even if you are at first unsuccessful.

 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
54. Correct, at least in terms of what they are able to pass.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 11:00 AM
Oct 2015

Hillary would have advantages in experience and not having to learn on the job since she was SecState.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
17. I think the aggregate national polling will be
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:33 PM
Oct 2015

in the 60-30 range within two weeks. That's pretty close to what you're showing, but I'd add a couple of points, now that Biden has announced he's not running.

CTyankee

(63,771 posts)
18. My husband and I are a split household. I am backing Bernie and he is HRC
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:40 PM
Oct 2015

all the way. We watched the Biden speech and agreed that Hillary would benefit a LOT by Joe's move today.

But we aren't arguing. He knows that I will support her if she our candidate. It's all good.

I think Biden's departure was so graceful that he helped our party enormously.

Hope we don't get too hot under the collar here at DU. I don't want any gut wrench infighting...

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
20. i warned Sanders supporters about this.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 03:44 PM
Oct 2015

It was obvious to me that Biden was just included in the polls when he wasn't running so that there would be this bump to push up Clinton's numbers and make it look like Bernie was falling behind.

Bernie is not falling behind. He has a long way to go, but these numbers have been the reality all along.

California voters love Bernie. At least that is what I find when I go out and campaign.

Hillary's economic plan -- what there is of it -- is not well thought through. Her proposals are not funded or at least she does not explain where she will find the money for most of them. Hillary's idea is to get business to bail out the middle class. Business, at least big business, is not going to volunteer to help the middle class. That is so much pie in the sky. It's not their job. Their job is to make money for themselves and their shareholders.

And most small businesses are having a tough enough time making it and can't bail out the middle class. It's the investor class, the top 1% or maybe 2 or 3 % that have to pay to strengthen the middle class.

Bernie's idea of raising the cap on Social Security taxes is a no brainer. It has to happen.

So does his idea of funding college tuition in state schools of higher learning and technical colleges out of a small tax on trades on Wall Street and in other markets. That is a brilliant idea. It would also ensure that the gambling trades are reported and tracked. Our government should track all those trades.

nyabingi

(1,145 posts)
29. The NYT will be just like FOX News was
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 04:05 PM
Oct 2015

on election night when it was clear the Mitt wasn't going to beat Obama. They'll still be putting up polls saying that Hillary has the support of the people behind her until they finally look at the actual results and realize Hillary wasn't winning after all.

The Democratic Party under the Clintons and Obama has steadily drifted rightward since 2000, making a futile attempt to attract southern white voters who will never vote for a political party that doesn't promise to protect white privilege. The Clinton/Obama Democratic Party is as close to Wall Street and the wealthy elite as their Republican counterparts, differing only on politically expedient social issues. We don't need another Clinton in office to dig us further in the quicksand - Bernie is at least promising to bring the Democrats back to being the party that champions the working folk of the US.

All of the corporate media is anti-Bernie, and it was proven last week that they literally suppress any data suggesting Bernie is more popular than the candidate they've chosen for us. So believe this "NBC/WSJ, FOX News, Quinnipiac, CNN, CBS/NYT, ABC/Washington Post" poll if you want - because we know they are all fair and unbiased.

 

RoccoR5955

(12,471 posts)
34. Yes. and the make up these polls
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 04:11 PM
Oct 2015

to get the answers that they want. I see it done all the time. They don't want someone who is not a corporatist. Welcome to the Oligarchy.

Chitown Kev

(2,197 posts)
51. Actually
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 05:36 AM
Oct 2015

Obama's electoral base that gave him the election were the traditional Big Ten states (Ohio, Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Iowa, Minnesota, and even Indiana once) and yes, he won Florida, Virginia, and North Carolina (once)...those wins in the south had more to do with demographic changes than anything else.

The split among white voters was quite different in the Midwest as opposed to much of the South and its' what gave him the victory.

Obama attracted areas in the Midwest that are (or were) traditionally Reagan Democrat territory, which is a bit different from the Southern Dixiecrats. (Obama won Macomb County, Michigan twice).

treestar

(82,383 posts)
58. Interesting there are a small group who go from Biden to Sanders
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:39 PM
Oct 2015

Anything but Hillary types who are still Third Way Corporatists?

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