2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDoes anyone here have family or friends that are Republicans?
Do you consider them "enemies" or just having wrong beliefs in regards to politics?
Have you tried to sway them toward Democratic, populist, progressive or liberal beliefs and did you have any success?
noun, plural enemies.
1.
a person who feels hatred for, fosters harmful designs against, or engages in antagonistic activities against another; an adversary or opponent.
2.
an armed foe; an opposing military force:
The army attacked the enemy at dawn.
3.
a hostile nation or state.
4.
a citizen of such a state.
5.
enemies, persons, nations, etc., that are hostile to one another:
Let's make up and stop being enemies.
6.
something harmful or prejudicial:
His unbridled ambition is his worst enemy.
7.
the Enemy, the Devil; Satan.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/enemy?s=t
Corruption is the enemy of development, and of good governance. It must be got rid of. Both the government and the people at large must come together to achieve this national objective.
Pratibha Patil
In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/martinluth103571.html#kOiqCstHjZz7M2BU.99
Autumn
(45,012 posts)there for me and there is nothing that I wouldn't do for them. We just have a difference of opinion on some things and i think that we have swayed each other on some things and agree to disagree on others. They are not my enemy, they are my loved ones.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)Opponents is the right word
Autumn
(45,012 posts)but we never go overboard. I like the term opponents
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I actually would hate it if every family member and friend thought the same as I do. How boring life would be.
randr
(12,409 posts)They all have a lack of empathy as a common theme
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)An Evangelical pastoral counselor and Liberty University graduate posted a short sermon about Bernie Sanders' speech at Liberty University to reddit yesterday:
Bernie is the voice of Justice crying out in the desert. Evangelicals like me are convicted by his message. (audio, a little under 17 minutes)
reddit thread
Partial transcript below the squiggle.
He was convicting the Christian leaders and the religious leaders in that university, and calling us out for being complicit in the abandonment of those who suffer, the least of these, and siding with the powerful and rich, the masters of this world. And he was convicting us and calling us out, and we scorned him, and we stared him down; and, with sour faces, we thought, "Who is this wacko, and why do all these people seem to follow him, seem to like him this wild-haired Jew, crying out from the wilderness of the political left, in his hoarse voice?"
When I heard Bernie speaking in that way, when I saw that guy on stage at Liberty University, I saw John the Baptist...crying out to the religious leaders, the Pharisees of his day, calling them corrupt and complicit with those who have all the power and all the money and all the wealth, and abandoning the people that God loves, that God cares about...
As I heard Bernie Sanders crying out to the religious leaders at Liberty University, in his hoarse voice, with his wild hair this Jew and he proclaimed justice over us, he called us to account, for being complicit with those who are wealthy and those who are powerful, and for abandoning the poor, the least of these, who Jesus said he had come to bring good news to. And in that moment something occurred to me. As I saw Bernie Sanders up there, as I watched him, I realized Bernie Sanders for president is good news for the poor. Bernie Sanders for president is Good News for the poor. Bernie Sanders is gospel for the poor. And Jesus said "I have come to bring gospel" good news "to the poor."
And lightning hit my heart at that moment. And I realized that we are evangelical Christians. We believe the Bible. We believe in Jesus. We absolutely shun those who would attempt to find nuance and twisted and tortured interpretations of scripture that they would use to master all other broader interpretations, to find some kind of big message that they want to flout. We absolutely scorn such things, and yet somehow we commit to the mental gymnastics necessary that allows us to abandon the least of these, to abandon the poor, to abandon the immigrants, to abandon those who are in prison.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/09/16/1421659/-An-Evangelical-responds-to-Sanders-speech-at-Liberty-U#
randr
(12,409 posts)with his heart exposed and bleeding.
The irony of how they display hatred to all those "bleeding heart" liberals.
Nietzsche is quoted as saying; "There was only one Christian, and they killed him."
Some things never change.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)She's not gonna change. She thinks the current Republicans are crazy and won't vote for them.. .but doesn't trust the Democrats at al land won't vote for them either
emulatorloo
(44,096 posts)But also ran into some Republicans during '08 who though the party was so off the rails that they felt it was a civic duty to vote for Obama.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,560 posts)He's not an enemy. I can't sway him at all, so I've let it go.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)mainstreetonce
(4,178 posts)Discussion impossible
FSogol
(45,464 posts)Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)We have had spirited discussions, but I never tried to change his mind. If he wants to look at things I've told him and the facts I've shown and reevaluate his politics, that would be fine. If he doesn't, I good with that, too.
In fact, I don't consider Republicans the enemy. I disagree with the party on fundamental issues. We are opponents not enemies.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)She said she was THEIR enemy.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Her answer was "probably the Republicans"
"Enemy" in this context equals the "the Republicans", not that she was "THEIR enemy".
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)Hillary win the nomination.
I don't think this helps her electable chances, this was particularly ironic coming from the nation's former top diplomat.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)"Franklin Delano Roosevelt once said, I ask you to judge me by the enemies I have made. Youve all made a few people upset over your political careers. Which enemy are you most proud of?"
Her answer suggests that she is their enemy. Hence the: "you've all made people upset". Those upset people are Republicans.
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)government should be run by "organized money," he doesn't carte-blanche throw out all Republicans as being his enemy.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)still_one
(92,106 posts)Steve King, and the other unhinged republicans in Congress
I guess the forgot when good ole Giuliani said "he didn't believe that the president loves America"
Or when Democrats were called traitors by republicans when they wanted to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Isn't a traitor considered an enemy?
Sometimes people in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)But nice try.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Dawgs
(14,755 posts)I can't help you any more than that.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)I have missed the reports lately ... is there a link to what she actually said?
I find it "interesting" that some people would get all brand new with HRC saying republicans were her enemy (if that was what she said) when that sentiment is expressed on the regular ... in fact, there is an OP on just this topic, with 15 replies and 7 recs ... albeit, without the term "enemy".
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Perhaps, you should rephrase your question ... or, expand the question to include members of the NRA and folks in banking or the Pharma industry.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)And she responded, "probably the Republicans".
The "which enemy" is "the Republicans". She was absolutely saying that she considered the republicans to be her enemy.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Does that settle the matter?
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)When questions like these are under consideration, we are not Democrats, we are not Republicans; we are a people united in a common patriotism. This is the spirit of my entire campaign. If the spirit and the method that I am applying to public questions are in line with that of progressive citizens of parties other than my own, I invite them to join me now, as I have invited them many times before. In the face of present national emergencies we must distinguish between parties and their leaders.
(snip)
To the people of this country I have but one answer on this subject. Judge me by the enemies I have made. Judge me by the selfish purposes of these utility leaders who have talked of radicalism while they were selling watered stock to the people and using our schools to deceive the coming generation.
http://newdeal.feri.org/speeches/1932a.htm
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)But it has nothing to do with what HRC said, or didn't say.
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)powers that he considered to be his enemy.
FDR was looking to unify the nation in order to overcome the powerful, wealthy and entrenched interests of the day.
Hillary used a partisan label to cite her enemies, it played well for a friendly crowd, but in the General Election if she is nominated, this will not serve her well.
As a side note she also listed Iranians as her enemy making no distinction between the Iranian people and their government, no doubt there are some Iranian Americans that weren't happy about it.
For the nation's former top diplomat to do such a thing particularly when President Obama has been fervently working to improve relations with Iran and work the nuclear inspection out with the Iranian government, smacks of particularly poor judgment on Hillary's part.
Cosmocat
(14,560 posts)Do you consider them "enemies" or just having wrong beliefs in regards to politics?
Wrong in beliefs for the most part
Have you tried to sway them toward Democratic, populist, progressive or liberal beliefs and did you have any success?
No
My inlaws are pretty much all conservative. Good people. Good inlaws. I mostly just keep my head down and stay out of their stuff and that makes me neutral territory and its all good. They know I am democrat and again, its all OK because I am good husband and father. But, if I tried to convince them different from what they believe, it would be a real problem.
I have far more republican/conservative than liberal friends and acquaintances. I do of course know some real ass hat libertarian types who rub me wrong, but tend to get along well with a lot of different types of republicans. Everyone knows my politics and as long as don't try to tell them different from what they WANT to believe with politics, its all good.
I am in a service club, which tends to have a pretty conservative group. I like and respect these people a lot, people who are very charitable and have big hearts, but have the poison of conservative politics in their blood. It just makes no sense to me, and I stopped trying to figure it out, and just accept them for what I know them to be in their actions.
I still remember the meeting after we got OBL. I was flying high that POS got taken out and during happy dollars made a comment about it, and you could hear a pin drop because BHO got him. Had it been Bush, they would have been cheering their heads off.
I am old enough now and have tried to figure it out and battle it long enough that I now know people well enough to know, people want to believe what they want to believe, and reality has nothing to do with and if you try to piss on their parade with it, they hate you for it.
Not worth it ...
treestar
(82,383 posts)I sometimes debate with them. Other times, I refuse to listen - don't think they should spoil holidays and family dinners with their politics - I don't bring up mine. I sometimes make a remark here and there, especially if they are being ridiculous.
onenote
(42,660 posts)And I'm their political opponent.
And we can still have a drink together.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)and are an enemy to my rights. We do just fine around the Christmas table.
Dick Cheney is one of the most evil people to ever occupy this earth. I truly mean that. There are plenty out there just as evil, he amassed power. That combination is brutal.
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)The corporate media in turn greatly influences and magnifies Republican thought.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)Those of you who adore the Republicans you know must know weak, unconnected, not very Republican Republicans. If I listed for you the Republicans I know and told you 'they are not your enemies' you would laugh in my face.
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)it butters their bread, many if not most rank and file Republicans are subject to corporate media brainwashing.
Many of the rank and file Republicans don't even have much bread to get buttered, however they have been or are distracted and their righteous anger is misdirected by the corporate media in service to the upper crust Republicans.
This is why the corporate media continually focuses on partisan scandal, fluff and the horse race versus covering in depth the most critical issues affecting the American People of all political persuasions.
The corporate media actively works to keep the people divided.
marlakay
(11,442 posts)In Virgina many years ago before Bush. They told me he is the nice one and his wfe is a b....
I just figure since hubby of cousin was on board of Mobil Oil, him and Cheney drinking whiskey and smoking cigars made them pretty friendly.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)We moved from West Hollywood 30 years ago and have lived mostly among conservatives ever since. Mild conservatives are pretty easy to get along with, especially sophisticated ones.
With strong conservatives, though, I find it important to differentiate between the facets of their character and behavior in play when they are among their friends and relatives and those that activate when they think about all those "others" out there. With friends they are typically warm and helpful, often wonderful and giving, or at least ordinary, and a pleasure to be with.
But when they turn to what's wrong with people they don't know and a world they don't like and refuse to understand and accept, that "poison in the blood" takes over, good sense and balance disappear and they typically become truly indecent and foolish -- at best. I no longer know how many times I've listened to "nice" people advocating the use of nuclear bombs on other peoples. I would not dream of trying to get one to feel responsibility, much less guilt, for the over half million people who died as a result of our invasion of Iraq. The only ones who matter are our own 4500.
So, bottom line, if I can keep the conversation at home, on the grandchildren, favorite recipes, garden visits, shopping, friends, we can be friends.
ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)ibegurpard
(16,685 posts)And as far as politics go some of them ARE enemies. I avoid the subject with these people.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)That said, even a few of *them* like Bernie Sanders. He sure as hell is an easier sell than Hillary Clinton to get folks to cross party lines. His message resonates because he doesn't flop back and forth pretending to be one thing but actually being another. They are leery of Trump.
Hillary is going to have a very rough road to getting elected. She lost in 2008 not because of Republicans, but because she was blown out of the Democratic primary. Don't think Rethugs aren't going to bring that up every chance they get, because you know they will.
Uncle Joe
(58,328 posts)supported the Republicans, they're much more open to Bernie's message, it resonates with them.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)and they are most certainly not enemies in any sense of the word. I wouldn't even use the word adversary to describe my relationship with them. We agreed to disagree and don't talk politics. Thanks uncle Joe. We must never forget who said this and under what circumstances. Words matter.
Gloria
(17,663 posts)talk to them anymore, so ...I presume they are! I was slammed about the Iran deal with a big wag of the finger....
Luckily, my brother went back to Jersey and I don't have to deal with him and all his kids and in-laws at all...
Armstead
(47,803 posts)...and they, of course think I'm a fine person...just politically misguided.
Chan790
(20,176 posts)We just agree to disagree. They're all "New England Republicans" by which I mean they're socially-moderate upwardly-mobile-or-wealthy, have money in the market, made their fortunes in defense spending, think religion is between you and the pastor and don't give a hell what you do in bed or with your uterus as long as it's not dinner conversation. Oh yes, we also all eat Sunday family dinner together and gossip about the country club.
I have tried to sway them but beyond their absolute belief in the death penalty, tax-cuts and defense spending, we don't actually disagree on much. My mother is swaying between Sanders or Trump as her favorite. The one person that she won't vote for is the same as the rest of my family...Hillary Clinton. It's not political, it's personal. She likes O'Malley too but liked him more when he was a centrist governor of Maryland before he decided to try to flank Hillary to the left. Said she'd probably have liked that "Johnny Webb guy" (sic) if the 1st time she heard of him wasn't the debate and the 2nd time his withdrawal speech.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)We avoid politics.
YabaDabaNoDinoNo
(460 posts)I know and work with republicans and conservatives but I have nothing to do with them beyond intetactions required for work.
And yes I consider All Republicans and conservatives without exception personal enemies and enemies to freedom.
marlakay
(11,442 posts)Daughter independent leans right. Cousin rich republicans in Santa Monica, i actually understand them because they vote to stay with their money.
I try to talk about kids, sports, anything but politics or things get shaky.
Most of my family thankfully is dem.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)They oppose everything I have ever believed in, stood for, or accomplished.
They are pro- Scott Walker / Paul Ryan - tear down the social net, public anything, and women's choice ... all of which helped me get to the place I am in life today.
They are pro - Donald Trump / Mike Huckabee - racist, religionist ignorants who belittle anyone who doesn't look, talk or worship like them - my ex and my daughter most certainly do not look, talk or worship like the way I was brought up.
So, yes, they are hostile, harmful and prejudicial.
lostnfound
(16,169 posts)He is kind, principled, honest, decent.. Not narrow-minded, either.
I don't hold it against him because he has a family history that explains the right-leaning tendencies. Father imprisoned and tortured by the commies. He was therefore inculcated with a certain distrust of leftist governments.
But he doesn't like anyone in the GOP clown car. I've been talking to him about Bernie. "Even though you will disagree with several of his positions, he has integrity." He listened. Who knows.
Weird to be such good friends with a Republican, but I would trust him with my life.
But most other close friends / significant others? All liberals.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)My brother is a toxic Republican. My best friend at work is a non toxic Republican. He voted strait Democratic when we took the congress in 2006, so all isn't lost with him.