2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumE-Mail Facts Everyone Must Know Before Tomorrow
1] The retroactive classification of material would have happened even if Hillary had used a government account. This is a normal process that is occurring.
2] The GOP committee investigating Hillary also has retroactively classified material on their unsecured servers.
3] What Hillary did was legal and permitted at the time she was Secretary of State.
4] Hillary went above and beyond all previous Secretary of States by making her e-mails public. None of this would be happening if Hillary hadnt decided to be more transparent than all previous Secretary of States.
But for the Clintons, no good deed goes unpunished.
Republicans have made careers out of witch-hunting Bill and Hillary Clinton, and believe the Clintons are held to a much higher standard than others [ie: George Bush deleted millions of e-mails during his administration]. Though Clinton has been more transparent than any other Secretary of State, thats still not good enough.
I dont blame Hillary for not cooperating with the GOP committees whose sole purpose is to launch a witch-hunt against her. Theres been more committees on Benghazi than 9/11/2001. Oh, and back in the 1990s, the GOP actually did an investigation into the Clintons Christmas card list. Hillary will soon be appearing before these clowns, and I almost feel sorry for them.
Unfortunately, what I fear is when the New York Times starts reporting right-wing character assassination as fact. The NYTimes had to retract a recent report stating there was a criminal FBI investigation into Hillarys e-mails. Turns out, the FBI isnt conducting a "criminal" investigation and Hillary is not being directly investigated. Shame on the NYTimes for doing the job of Fox News and Trump.
Fact is nothing Hillary did was illegal. The law regarding e-mails changed after she left office. It is simply a conspiracy theory that she is hiding some Benghazi Bombshell related e-mail. The GOP literally has no proof but pure speculation that Hillary is hiding something. Hillary was more transparent than any other Secretary of State, but the GOP is still out to destroy her [just like they have been trying and failing to do since the early 1990s]
Hillary should wear these investigations as a badge of honor. They fear her. And they should.
Oh, and if Bernie and his supporters dont think the GOP will go after him just as hard, theyve got another thing coming. The Clintons know how to beat the GOP better than anyone ^.^
No one does it better than my favorite Clintonite James Carville. Watch him destroy the GOP over this e-mail nonsense:
Source: http://hillaryisaboss.tumblr.com
Response to JTShroyer (Original post)
Post removed
JTShroyer
(246 posts)I love Hillary. And I remembered this place as a good place to share ideas.
Bite me
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Your reply is spot on.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)Apparently you aren't even allowed to support Clinton around here, or post OP's or you know stuff from Tumblr.
Who knew?
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Not a peep about the bullshit republican fishing expedition that might end up containing illegal elements. Simply questioning a poster who is showing support for a progressive who is being unethically attacked.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)that is mad I'm spreading #ClintonLOVE on this site.
They can take a look at the gif at the end of my post for my response.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)1] The retroactive classification of material would have happened even if Hillary had used a government account. This is a normal process that is occurring. - It is a violation of 18 USC Sec. 793 for Presumed Classified information to be stored or transmitted on private devices. It's a felony. Period. Look it up
2] The GOP committee investigating Hillary also has retroactively classified material on their unsecured servers. - Hackers also have her classified materials, but only as a result of Hillary trading presumed classified materials with hackable persons, such as Sid Blumenthal, without security clearances.
3] What Hillary did was legal and permitted at the time she was Secretary of State. - Nope. See 1 above.
4] Hillary went above and beyond all previous Secretary of States by making her e-mails public. None of this would be happening if Hillary hadnt decided to be more transparent than all previous Secretary of States. - None of this would have been even known if she had used secure Departmental systems provided her, as she was instructed when she received her handling classified materials training.
1) Government agencies get together after-the-fact to determine if anything should be retroactivity classified. Hillary committed no felony due to retroactive classification.
Where's the indictment? LOL
2) Do you have 100% confirmation Hillary's private server was hacked? The irony is that the government servers were hacked without-a-doubt.
3) The law regarding e-mail laws changed after she became Secretary of State. Look it up. Seriously.
4) Hillary viewed all marked classified material on secured systems separate from her e-mail system.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Probably a few more, that maybe we don't even know about?
riversedge
(69,730 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Large organizations, like the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, have layers of security. You might be able to get in the front door, but you're not going to get into the fingerprint scan protected safe locked behind the steel door and guarded with a Rottweiler. Yeah, some hackers got some personnel info, but little else (sucks for those people, though).
Clinton's server had no such security. In fact, it basically had none. Any first-year hacker could control her server straight from the Internet. Her team didn't even change the factory VPN settings and they certainly weren't encrypted.
The issue is what did she have on it that said hacker could access.
Trust me, when Comey says his team doesn't give a rip about politics, he means it.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)1) Government agencies get together after-the-fact to determine if anything should be retroactivity classified. Hillary committed no felony due to retroactive classification. Look up CIA Director John Deutch. Tell us how his mishandling of classified materials was different.
Where's the indictment? LOL As in Deutch's case, the decision whether to convene a GJ is made by the AG. As in that case, the decision may be to not decide until the term is over, and to leave it to the President to pardon, as Bill did Deutch.
2) Do you have 100% confirmation Hillary's private server was hacked? The irony is that the government serves were hacked without-a-doubt. Doesn't matter - we know that Blumenthal's email was hacked and that Hillary's server wasn't authorized. It's a prima facie violation under the section of the statute I cited above.
3) The law regarding e-mail laws changed after she became Secretary of State. Look it up. Seriously. Seriously, you don't know what you're talking about. The Department regulation changed after she left state. The Executive Order that made foreign government information presumed classified was issued in 2009. The statute is the Espionage Act of 1917, which certainly predates Hillary's activities. She continued to use her unauthorized system from 2009 until 2013.
4) Hillary viewed all marked classified material on secured systems separate from her e-mail system. Irrelevant. She sent and hosted numerous presumed classified materials on her unauthorized private email server. She broke the law, and would have been indicted by now if she, like CIA Director Deutch, wasn't too big to indict.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)Here is the executive order governing classification of information.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information
It makes very clear that classified information must be designated as such by a classification authority, and classified documents carry markings to indicate the level of classification. Clinton's emails were not (despite what you and Trey Gowdy might want to believe).
(1) an original classification authority is classifying the information;
(2) the information is owned by, produced by or for, or is under the control of the United States Government;
(3) the information falls within one or more of the categories of information listed in section 1.4 of this order; and
(4) the original classification authority determines that the unauthorized disclosure of the information reasonably could be expected to result in damage to the national security, which includes defense against transnational terrorism, and the original classification authority is able to identify or describe the damage.
(b) If there is significant doubt about the need to classify information, it shall not be classified. This provision does not:
(1) amplify or modify the substantive criteria or procedures for classification; or
(2) create any substantive or procedural rights subject to judicial review.
(c) Classified information shall not be declassified automatically as a result of any unauthorized disclosure of identical or similar information.
(d) The unauthorized disclosure of foreign government information is presumed to cause damage to the national security.
(1) one of the three classification levels defined in section 1.2 of this order;
(2) the identity, by name and position, or by personal identifier, of the original classification authority;
(3) the agency and office of origin, if not otherwise evident;
(4) declassification instructions, which shall indicate one of the following:
(A) the date or event for declassification, as prescribed in section 1.5(a);
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Unauthorized disclosure of "presumed classified" information is just as illegal under this EO as deemed classified (stamped classified). Presumed classified information is classified at the moment of its creation. It does not have to be stamped to be classified. What is so hard for you to understand about that?
BTW: I didn't make this up. The IG of the Intelligence Community referred this matter on that basis. What is your authority?
DanTex
(20,709 posts)document to be classified. I hope.
Notice that it doesn't say "presumed classified." What this means is that if a document includes foreign government information, then the classification authority doesn't need to provide a justification for the national security consequences because those are presumed.
It most certainly does not mean that information is automatically classified without a classification authority designating it as such (as the parts of the EO from previous post made clear).
And (obviously) it doesn't mean is that any foreign government information is presumed classified, because that would mean that talking about the fact that Paris is that capital of France would be illegal.
Yes, you did make this up.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Anyone who receives training in handling of classified materials is instructed that information gleaned from ranking foreign officials about matters that the Department might classify is "presumed classified." Hillary acknowledges receiving and understanding that training. She knew better.
But, in response to Sid's messages containing clearly presumed classified information identified as obtained from ranking Libyan officials, she responded to Sid, "Great stuff! Keep it coming." She also sent presumed classified messages on 17 occasions. I didn't make that up.
She's too cocky for her own good and shows lack of sound judgment. I didn't make that up, either, Dan.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)And now that I've posted the actual Executive Order, everyone reading this knows this as well.
Trey Gowdy tried your talking point, and fell on his face. But keep it coming, it's fun.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)DanTex, who you might think should know better, is willfully obtuse on this subject. He doesn't argue his case very well on this subject, and has done his cause no good at all.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)How did the 8th Benghazi committee become about e-mails!?!?
The other party doesnt want to run against her. And if they do, theyd like her as mangled up as possible.
President Bill Clinton
Here is Hillary on these fools:
For the first time in American history, ever, this is the 8th congressional committee, all chaired by Republicans, to look into Benghazi. The first 7 said she didnt do anything wrong. So the 8th one has now been going on longer than the congressional inquiry into Pearl Harbor. And its spent about 4 million dollars.
President Bill Clinton
I trust the American people. Theyll get this. Theyll work through it. Theyll understand that theyre being sent a heavy signal: We dont want to run against this woman. Just give us somebody else [Bernie Sanders]. Please. And so they think the Democratic primary voters will be so overwhelmed theyll say OK.
President Bill Clinton
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 21, 2015, 09:56 PM - Edit history (1)
All that the GOP has managed to do is poison the well for any actual investigation of both Hillary's attempt to evade FOIAs and subpoenas and her disastrously failed Libya-Syria regime change operations. A twofer for HRC. Another reason for non-partisans to distrust her and vote against her. Congratulations.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)I said they poisoned the well for any serious investigation. That is always the outcome when the RW runs these shows. Happened with BCCI (was turned into the Whitewater circus)(the Kerry Committee Report was the only redeeming product).
Iran-Contra was papered over by Chairman Lee Hamilton leading to pardons for the main actors(RW Democrats are always part of the official coverup; in this case, Hamilton worked with Henry Hyde)(In 1991 Lawrence Walsh's investigation found papers had been withheld from the Congressional committees. This led to indictments for coverup-related offenses against Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger, CIA clandestine services chief Clair George, and CIA European Division Chief Duane "Dewey" Clarridge. George was convicted in late 1992; the trials of Weinberger and Clarridge, due in early 1993, were halted after the outgoing President George H. W. Bush pardoned all those involved.)
"Benghazi!!!" is Congressional cover for the CIA-State Dept. arms and Jihadi pipeline that stretched from the Libya to the Syria regime change operations, and the disastrous outcomes that followed.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)The answer to where and when is, the decision to seek a Grand Jury indictment is ultimately a political decision made by the Attorney General. In the case of CIA Director John Deutch who committed acts similar to Hillary (hooked up laptops containing classified materials onto his home internet), the final outcome was that the matter was referred by the Agency IG to the FBI which never resulted in any action being taken by Janet Reno. Deutch was pardoned on Bill's last day in office.
I rather suspect that the outcome will be the same with Hillary. A presidential pardon after the election might legally forestall an Impeachment attempt by the GOP, which will probably have the votes, at least in the House - not sure, and we will see. Ironically, if Hillary is the candidate, her coat-tails will probably not be very long. Not a good way to start a Presidency, in any event.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)of a presidential pardon been reported?
leveymg
(36,418 posts)anything other than a hunch based on how a similar breach of law by a ranking official was handled under President Clinton. Deutch is the closest historical antecedent.
Do you really have to be polemical in all your responses?
JTShroyer
(246 posts)besides use a server set up for President Bill Clinton, which Hillary was legally permitted to use. She then handed over her e-mails in the same way all other Secretaries of State did and she even handed over her server. You are grasping at straws.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Note the date of the EO that included foreign gov't information as "presumed classified." That answers your question about the unlawful activities she did that previous SOS had not been called to task for.
Actually, it has always been illegal to host or transmit deemed classified materials on an unapproved nongovernment server.
Follow the instructions, buyer beware and read the fine print before purchase, and your Presidential shopping experience won't be so complicated. That's common sense advise that Hillary and her lawyers should have followed.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)that contained presumed classified information in defiance of that Executive Order 13526, violating the associated section of the Espionage Act statute, 18 USC Sec. 793, Gathering, Transmitting or Losing Defense Information.
Most of the Libya specific emails she exchanged were in 2011, 2012.
The Department is required by the same EO to train its employees in its implementation. She cannot and has not plead ignorance of the law.
Again, this is all laid out here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251552653
bpj62
(997 posts)I have been coming to DU for over ten years and i have no idea when i joined nor do i care. I am a reader more than a poster and it baffles me that some people use a posters length of time on DU or thier post count as some sort of barometer of worthiness. The poster is right about what has happened in the past to the Clintons and what will happen tomorrow. Although Bernie may not have to appear before a house committee he will be attacked like never before if he wins the nomination. Finally what did the poster say that was incorrect about Hillary and her use of email.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Low count posters who post false information are often scrutinized particularly closely.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)playing along with the GOP fake email/Benghazi circus is bullshit.Some of you are taking this "the enemy of my enemy" crap way too far.
JTShroyer
(246 posts)Scary that liberals are buying into GOP attacks on Hillary. Same thing happened in 2008. The last thing the GOP wants is to go against the Clintons again and yet some people just can't see it
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)- Bernie Sanders
JTShroyer
(246 posts)Response to JTShroyer (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Agschmid
(28,749 posts)Even though Bernie seems to agree that the email thing is a non-issue.