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pinebox

(5,761 posts)
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 06:47 PM Oct 2015

At Debate, Clinton Falsely Claims Snowden Had Whistleblower Protections

False. False. False. That is the determination of fact checking news site Grasswire.

At Debate, Clinton Falsely Claims Snowden Had Whistleblower Protections
https://grasswire.com/story/342/Clinton-on-Snowden

Edward Snowden "broke the laws of the United States" when there were other avenues available to him, Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton asserted during a debate Tuesday evening.

"He stole very important information that has, unfortunately, fallen into a lot of the wrong hands," Clinton said during CNN's debate in Las Vegas. "I don't think he should be brought home without facing the music."

Clinton said Snowden "could have gotten all of the protections of being a whistleblower" if he had gone through different avenues, a line that has been repeated by several politicians, including U.S. President Barack Obama.

But Snowden did not qualify for whistleblower protection under current federal laws because he did not work as a government employee. When Snowden stole tens of thousands of documents related to secret warrantless NSA surveillance programs, he did so as an employee of Booz Allen Hamilton, a government contractor. Government contractors are not protected under federal whistleblower laws.

An executive order signed by President Obama did allow for some members of the intelligence community to raise issues of wrongdoing, but provided no assurances against retaliation for doing so. Critics of the tired anti-Snowden line often point to the prosecution of Thomas Drake, a senior NSA official who went through the proper channels only to be criminally charged in 2010 for disclosing non-classified material.


Mother Jones also picks this story up and catches Hillary with what she said.






38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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At Debate, Clinton Falsely Claims Snowden Had Whistleblower Protections (Original Post) pinebox Oct 2015 OP
She lies, why would you expect anything else. JRLeft Oct 2015 #1
Yup pinebox Oct 2015 #4
Bingo n/t MissDeeds Oct 2015 #5
Bill and Hillary 2 peas in a pod. JRLeft Oct 2015 #7
She will say, do and espouse MissDeeds Oct 2015 #8
She became a progressive once Bernie started making progress. JRLeft Oct 2015 #15
Senator Sanders called for him to face trial. nt onehandle Oct 2015 #2
Correct pinebox Oct 2015 #3
And that Snowden's valuable public disclosure should be taken into account before sentencing. frylock Oct 2015 #16
Sounds like he thinks that Snowden has some sort of 'whistleblower protection.' nt onehandle Oct 2015 #17
Theoretically, yes. frylock Oct 2015 #18
But but... when Sanders does it its ok cause Hillary is tEh evil!! uponit7771 Oct 2015 #29
He still had whistleblower protections...he didn't use them. nt kelliekat44 Oct 2015 #6
Source, please. Scuba Oct 2015 #9
Here you go ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #13
That source doesn't support Clinton's claim that he had access to whistleblower protections. Vattel Oct 2015 #25
Really? Did it not indicate the reporting protocol that triggers the protection? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #26
It doesn't apply to employees of intelligence agencies let alone contractors like Snowden. Vattel Oct 2015 #27
My bad ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #33
The most relevant law to look at in Snowden's case is the ICWPA and PPD-19. Vattel Oct 2015 #35
He was NOT a federal employee! Did you read the OP? nt mhatrw Oct 2015 #36
+1 for truth. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #12
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Oct 2015 #10
There is NOTHING false about her statement ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #11
Yup. Agschmid Oct 2015 #20
Occupational hazard ... READING THE F#$%ING LAW! n/t 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #21
+1 uponit7771 Oct 2015 #30
As an employee of a federal contractor, what protections would those have gotten him? mhatrw Oct 2015 #37
More to the point is that whistleblower protections SheilaT Oct 2015 #14
Name one person that availed themselves of the disclosure protections that was jailed ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #22
Jeffrey Sterling, John Kiriakou, and Chelsea Manning. SheilaT Oct 2015 #23
Are you suggesting that ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #24
I'm suggesting that having the audacity to disclose SheilaT Oct 2015 #31
Of course they would have made an example of him jfern Oct 2015 #19
I think Hillary has bad people working for her olddots Oct 2015 #28
She selects these folks, listens to them, and keeps them around. Birds of a feather flock together TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #32
And you know damn well she knew she was lying. She's an attorney, forcryingoutloud. She knows the in_cog_ni_to Oct 2015 #34
K & R !!! WillyT Oct 2015 #38
 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
8. She will say, do and espouse
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 07:14 PM
Oct 2015

anything that is politically advantageous. Her positions change with the political winds, hence camp weathervane.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
25. That source doesn't support Clinton's claim that he had access to whistleblower protections.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 12:07 AM
Oct 2015

It helps to explain why he would have gone to prison had he made public the details of the NSA's illegal surveillance.

 

Vattel

(9,289 posts)
35. The most relevant law to look at in Snowden's case is the ICWPA and PPD-19.
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 11:42 AM
Oct 2015

ICWPA applies to employees like Snowden, but includes no protections against retaliation, just a process for raising concerns. With respect to Presidential Policy Directive 19 (PPD-19) things get less clear, but on the most natural reading PPD-19 does not protect employees of businesses that contract with the NSA. Some legal experts have debated that point, but Snowden would certainly have had no basis for predicting that a court would decide that he was protected by PPD-19.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
11. There is NOTHING false about her statement ...
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 07:37 PM
Oct 2015

Snowden had 3 ways to avail himself of Whistleblower protections:

1) Disclose the information to his immediate supervisor;

2) Disclose the information to the Inspector General

3) Disclose the information to a member of Congress.

He chose not to do any of these actions; therefore, he had protections had he availed himself of them before disclosing the information to Greenwald.

mhatrw

(10,786 posts)
37. As an employee of a federal contractor, what protections would those have gotten him?
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 04:19 PM
Oct 2015

I don't see what protections against retaliation he would have been granted.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
14. More to the point is that whistleblower protections
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 07:40 PM
Oct 2015

seem to be pretty meaningless. Whistleblowers almost invariably loose their jobs. Sometimes wind up in jail. Snowden would be a fool to return to this country.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
22. Name one person that availed themselves of the disclosure protections that was jailed ...
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 10:09 PM
Oct 2015

though I will agree, whistleblowers DO tend to lose their jobs, and are often untrusted for other employment opportunities.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
23. Jeffrey Sterling, John Kiriakou, and Chelsea Manning.
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:41 PM
Oct 2015

That's three. The article at the link below is also instructive.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/05/obama-has-sentenced-whistleblowers-to-31-times-the-jail-time-of-all-prior-u-s-presidents-combined.html

The notion of "whistleblower protection" that you must avail yourself of is something of a red herring. If people can't call out businesses or governments on wrong-doing without being punished, there's something very, very wrong.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
24. Are you suggesting that ...
Wed Oct 21, 2015, 11:55 PM
Oct 2015

Jeffrey Sterling, John Kiriakou, or Chelsea Manning, disclosed the information to their chain of command, the Office of the Inspector General, or a member of Congress, before turning the disclosure over to a "journalist"?

That is the protocol prescribed by the law ... and there is a reason for that.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
31. I'm suggesting that having the audacity to disclose
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:14 AM
Oct 2015

wrong-doing on the part of your government is invariably punished.

It feels as if every week here in NM I read about some whistle-blower who has been fired from the job. It doesn't really happen quite that often, but it's amazingly common. And in the cases I'm reading about, they have disclosed to the chain of command. Then they get harassed on the job, fired, and then go to the media.

"Whistleblower protection" appears to be the greatest oxymoron ever.

 

olddots

(10,237 posts)
28. I think Hillary has bad people working for her
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 04:35 AM
Oct 2015

trying to come up with the answers they think people want to hear .If she gave the impression she spoke from her heart people wouldn't be so distrustful of her.

TheKentuckian

(25,020 posts)
32. She selects these folks, listens to them, and keeps them around. Birds of a feather flock together
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:26 AM
Oct 2015

She is consistently surrounded by the worst hacks, those are her people and her responsibility not some half assed excuse for why she is wrong, reactionary, and needs to "evolve" so often as the winds change.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
34. And you know damn well she knew she was lying. She's an attorney, forcryingoutloud. She knows the
Thu Oct 22, 2015, 08:58 AM
Oct 2015

law.

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