2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum9 reasons Denmark’s "socialist" economy leaves the US in the dust
Well, here ya go!
Go Bernie!
http://usuncut.com/world/here-are-9-reasons-denmarks-socialist-economy-leaves-the-us-in-the-dust/
Thanks to Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders proud identification as a Democratic Socialist and allusion to Denmark as an ideal social democracy, Denmark is being discussed throughout the news media. But what few outlets are brave enough to report is that, by almost every measurable standard, Danish socialism runs circles around American capitalism. Here are a few examples:
1. Denmarks unemployed workers get 90 percent of their old salary for 2 years.
Denmark has a tremendous social safety net for unemployed workers any worker who worked at least 52 weeks over a three-year period can qualify to have 90 percent of their original salary paid for, for up to two years. The Danish government also has plentiful training programs for out-of-work Danes. As a result, 73 percent of Danes between 15 and 64 have a paying job, compared to 67 percent of Americans. (sorces http://www.forbes.com/2008/06/27/unemployment-benefits-world-forbeslife-cx_mw_0627worldunemployment.html and also http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/denmark/ )
2. Denmark spends far less on healthcare than the US.
According to the Organisation for Economic Co-Operation and Development (OECD), the US spends twice as much per capita on healthcare than in Denmark, where taxpayer-funded universal healthcare is available for all citizens. 2009 OECD data shows that the U.S. spent an average of $7,290 per person on healthcare. Denmark spent just $3,512. World Bank data, as seen in the chart above, shows Danish healthcare costs are about $3,000 less per capita than in the US. Source: http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_13261279
3. Denmark is the happiest country on Earth.
The World Happiness Report, which determines which nations population is the happiest using criteria like life expectancy, GDP, social safety nets, as well as factors like perception of corruption and freedom to make life choices, found that Denmark was the happiest country. The US, in the meantime, ranked #17 on the same list. Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/10301496/Denmark-the-worlds-happiest-country.html
4. Danes enjoy the worlds shortest workweek.
Denmark leads every other OECD nation in work-life balance. Danes work an average of 33 hours a week, earn an average of $46,000 USD annually, and have the right to 5 weeks of paid vacation per year. Here in the US, the average worker puts in an average of 47 hours a week, and only takes 16 days of vacation a year. This is largely due to a more stressful work climate, in which wages are stagnating while costs are rising. Combine that with a highly-competitive job market, and that means more Americans are willing to chain themselves to their desk then to risk taking vacation days and coming back to find someone else took their job. Sources; http://money.cnn.com/gallery/news/economy/2013/07/10/worlds-shortest-work-weeks/2.html and http://www.gallup.com/poll/175286/hour-workweek-actually-longer-seven-hours.aspx and http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/22/travel/u-s-workers-vacation-time/ and http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/10/09/for-most-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/
5. Denmark pays students $900 a month to attend college.
Here in the US, the cost of going to college has soared by over 500 percent in the last 30 years. But in Denmark, not only is college free, but students are actually paid $900 USD per month to go to school, provided they live on their own. And this funding lasts up to six years. By contrast, the average US student pays over $31,000 a year in tuition to attend a private university, out-of-state residents at public universities pay $22,000 a year in tuition, and tuition costs for in-state residents at those same universities is still over $9,000. Sources; http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-08-26/college-costs-surge-500-in-u-s-since-1985-chart-of-the-day and https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/04/why-danish-students-are-paid-to-go-to-college/ and http://www.collegedata.com/cs/content/content_payarticle_tmpl.jhtml?articleId=10064
The rest of the article is at the link above (well, here http://usuncut.com/world/here-are-9-reasons-denmarks-socialist-economy-leaves-the-us-in-the-dust/ )
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)figure in changing the direction that America goes for the future of our children and grandchildren.
You, on the other hand, would support the continuation of the status quo. You would support your precious capitalist paradise that is proven to be a false promise. There is no credibility earned by supporting, not a paradise, but a dystopia.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)Like a lot less debt among student loans! Holy shite! lol
Canada isn't the USSR. Unless something happened over night with the Manhattan Project none of us know about.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)to live under.
See, drivebys with no content are so edgy!
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Anything that isn't right leaning is labeled a 'socialist paradise' or 'purity'.
drray23
(7,587 posts)Speaking of denmark, my wife and I are watching a tv series on DVD called "borgen". Its basically the equivalent of west wing but its taking place in denmark and follows the tribulations of a liberal politician woman in danish politics. Very well done and in interesting. Its available on DVD, most likely at your library.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)Baclava
(12,047 posts)Countries ranked by population
100 - Papua New Guinea
101- Togo
112 - Denmark
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)I guess I don't understand what a country's size has to do with the economic policies it adopts.
Why is possible for Denmark to provide good benefits for citizens, but not us?
Baclava
(12,047 posts)Denmark is smaller that some of our CITIES. You might as well say "The U.S. should be more like NYC."
angrychair
(8,594 posts)Speaking specifically to "Try feeding 360 million people every day", first the US population is about 318 million. Second, we pay farmers not to grow good.
Given the size, technology and geographic diversity of our country, we have the ability to produce the majority of our food with little effort.
A "Denmark" like social benefit structure is well within our ability to produce ( we are a 14 trillion dollar economy) but it would require a philosophically different approach to government than we have now and a different understanding by our citizens on the purpose and value of taxes. We teach, from the time our children are very young, to hate taxes and hate the IRS. We fail badly at connecting our taxes to the thousands of public services we benefit from everyday. Given our history, the greatest challenge will be to make people understand that as a trade off for 50% (60?) tax, you get free healthcare, free college, guaranteed family leave, vacation, training and retirement with dignity and elderly and hospice care, Will be the hardest sell. The next will be to keep large corporate profit hounds from humping the system trying to make a profit from it.
Cal33
(7,018 posts)your reply. It would be great if you wrote here more often.
angrychair
(8,594 posts)That is very kind of you to say.
drray23
(7,587 posts)It is the typical right wing argument they use to dismiss considering it outright. I am not saying you are right wing of course.
Things are not as simple at it looks. Yes, we are a bigger country but this also means we have a bigger tax base.
Everything scales. The reason we do not have the social benefits than Denmark has to do with policies that we have adopted in this country. Until we are willing to radically change our outlook, priorities and the way politics are done here, we will stay in the same predicament.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)While the earth's population grows bigger and bigger - then we have to swarm off-planet to survive.
Let me get this straight, the supposed "greatest nation on earth" is unable to do the things that smaller countries can?
So much for "American exceptionalism", eh? It seems the only thing with regards to "American exceptionsliam" is the inability to do what other countries are able to.
Now let's take a look at the entire European Union, all of which has things pretty much the same across the same as Denmark.
Population? 503 million.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)Accept our differences and move on.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)and our government selling out. That's why. We've accepted our differences for too long. Enough is enough with enslaving our kids and future generations to student loan debt while Walmart's low wages are subsidized. We're falling behind the rest of the world or haven't you noticed?
It's not apples vs oranges, it's free societies and Canada's middle class is now richer than our own.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)Raise your hand if you had "Hillary Clinton defends capitalism, and/or criticizes Denmark" in your office pool for the first on-stage debate fight of the Democratic primaries
Clinton fired back with a defense of capitalism as a concept. First she redefined it - capitalism, she said, is about entrepreneurs being able to start small businesses - and then she said America must save it from itself.
"We are not Denmark," she told Sanders.
"We would be making a grave mistake to turn our backs on what built the greatest middle class in the history of the world," she said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/10/13/why-bernie-sanders-loves-denmark-but-hillary-clinton-doesnt/
Response to Baclava (Reply #26)
Cal33 This message was self-deleted by its author.
SOCIOECONOMIC BALANCE can be achieved regardless of size. Some countries have done a better job of socioeconomic balancing than others.
Baclava
(12,047 posts)People will do what's in their best interest first, and the next generation of workers will be bred and taught to keep it all running.
Same as it ever was. You'll see.
You mentioned wasteful military spending. The other day ... Im sure youve heard about the F-35 catching fire on the runway. The estimated lifetime expense of the F-35 is $1.2 trillion. When you talk about cutting wasteful military spending, does that include the F-35 program?
Bernie Sanders: No, and Ill tell you why it is essentially built. It is the airplane of the United States Air Force, Navy, and of NATO. It was a very controversial issue in Vermont. And my view was that given the fact that the F-35, which, by the way, has been incredibly wasteful, thats a good question. But for better or worse, that is the plane of record right now, and it is not gonna be discarded. Thats the reality.
So, while Bernie Sanders is saying we should cut military spending to fund free college for everyone, his defense of the F-35 means that despite everything else, Sanders is still just a politician.
Sooner or later, the F-35 will eventually be replaced by something even more expensive, while the F-35 joins the thousands of other unused fighter jets in the boneyard. But rather than lying to people and saying the program is already a done deal and that theres nothing he can do, Sanders could stand by his principles and introduce an amendment in the next National Defense Authorization Act to strip the F-35 program of its funding. That remaining $700 billion could make college tuition-free for everyone for at least a decade.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)it is not a matter of size - it is a matter of priorities
TexasBushwhacker
(20,044 posts)Companies that have implemented it find that workers are more productive during the 6 hour workday and get the same amount done. Working an 8 hour day makes people take more breaks.
zappaman
(20,605 posts)Democrats_win
(6,539 posts)Yes, our current "utopia" requires that most minorities be put in prison in a strangely Stalinist way. Yet we are told by ALL politicians the benefits of work in another strangely Nazi way: "Work makes you free."
Yes, when you put a dollar value on everything, you tend to devalue human beings and human institutions. Forget that the animal kingdom, as Thom Hartman says, shows us how the herd rallies around a sick member and this eventually makes the herd stronger. Forget all of human history that through a human society we no longer live a life that is " solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short."
Thirty-five years of neglect demonstrates that humans can no longer live in the failed Reagan-Thatcher-esque world.
Bring on the Danes!
Uncle Joe
(58,112 posts)Thanks for the thread, pinebox.