IF they don't overhear it on a radio in passing, or happen to accidentally click on the news on their TV, it doesn't exist.

Politics doesn't seem relevant to their lives. That's one reason things are so screwed up.

Social media. .The more people share Sanders, the more his words get heard. I am amazed by the variety of people in my social media feeds that are sharing. I have gone to my Latino groups and share.

Big likes on Babies for Bernie.

Bit by bit.

I post the YouTube video of him crushing that representative who talked about "homos...In the military."

with Bernie's site and in the back of it, links to issues such as http://bernie.black and http://bernie.lgbt. Easy enough for them to whip out their smartphones and check it out once handed those cards. 1,000 of these runs about $30, and it's a worthy investment.

I'm tired of explaining.

Especially my younger co-workers, many if whom are black.

I'm actually reporting dispassionately. Had I been partisan, I might spin a story about how I went into this bar and found all these people all about Bernie.

I did not.

Quite the opposite.

So, what's your problem there?

I asserted my experience in that particular place.

You seem unable to cope with an opinion rendered by minorities.

Why?

Yes, that is what you are doing.

I am not telling anybody to shut up about their personal experiences . I am calling out people for using anecdotes to slime Hillary Clinton. If you don't like what I have to say there isn't much you can do to shut me up, try as you may.


But I would be remiss in not saying as Hillary rises in the polls I expect the attacks to become more vicious:

And it is ironic indeed that you are accusing me of doing what you are trying to do.

Prism, a gay man, spoke of his experience. You called his OP "ugly" and told him that his personal experiences should not be shared.

Well, sorry. That is what people do on a Discussion Board.

Feel free to say what you want as will I -as will Prism.

People's voices have import and you need to listen to those that do not agree with you as well as those that do.

My black gay cousin attends, sings beautifully. I know plenty more black people, most of whom love Bill and Hillary by extension. Bill's admin is when we moved out of poverty and got off food stamps. Made it to the middle class. It means alot to move to the middle class to a nice place in a nice neighborhood in the suburbs. Our parents got jobs in post offices and courthouses and telephone companies, etc. My generation is the first to attend college in my family because the 90 made it so we lived where we could attend the 'white schools' and so recieved a superior education than our peers in the hood.

I think you should take it from black people not those providing commentary on their own opinions of the thoughts of others. Hearsay is often open to falsifying and much interpretation.

They wouldn't vote for Hillary in a million years.

And that's the stone cold truth.

Different strokes for different folks.

Well, Bill and Hillary are not the same person. We aren't electing Bill again.

Just sounds like brand loyalty..... and "Coke or Pepsi" is not too bright when voting.

I swear a majority of Clinton voters do it just because of recognition, not anything she's actually done.

I dunno why gay people would "love" the DOMA people.

"I think you should take it from black people ...."

Your little circle of friends do not represent "black people".

Again, I am sharing my personal experience. I have not sugar coated it. I have not painted my preferred candidate in a favorable light.

Why are you so bothered?

I have lots of anecdotes about all kinds of people..., some kind and some unkind. I don't bring them here to slime Bernie Sanders, Martin O'Malley, Lincoln Chafee, et cetera...

You seem to have some deeply rooted animus against Hillary Clinton. I feel it is unfair to try and disabuse you of it...

I will do something I rarely ever do with the emphasis on rarely and let my opponent have the last word.

PEACE
DemocratSinceBirth

I went to a black gay bar, I asked the patrons what they thought, I telegraphed it here, and you want to shout it down.

I mean, that's on you. Again, I did not post anything anyone could even potentially interpret as pro-Sanders. And you still want to dismiss it.

Doesn't seem cool.

No ... He, at best, is crowding out a white voice's, suspecting "reporting" on what Black folks supposedly said.

I'm dispassionately reporting what was said by voices of color, and you are combating me.

Why?

I am questioning the veracity of your "reporting."

I have bartended in a number of venues ... Unless gay bars are, or that particular gay bar is, a special space, I have never seen an instance where people unengaged an unknown person, who does not talk politics in person, with political bashing.

Color me unconvinced.

I will happily take you clubbing with me. Then you may experience it yourself. As a man of means (as you constantly remind us), a flip to Oakland shouldn't be too much trouble.

Also, since I have you, why did the bartender give me a pitcher of beer. Seriously. An entire pitcher. For free. That baffled me.

I left shortly thereafter!

Tipped, of course, but not for a free pitcher I didn't request.

"Which, I understood given 2008."

No, you seemed to be agreeing with the whole "eff her" sentiment.

I love the "who, me?" innocent act that a lot of folks play around here these days.

The idea that black people aren't thrilled with what Hillary Clinton did in 2008 is not isolated to my small experience.

Some other things you've had to say on this subject... Shall we have a look at just one thread?

I've seen black posters and people of color bullied on this board because they're not in line with a clique. A few weeks ago, I saw a pro-Sanders black woman called "self-hating" by people in the AA forum.

So, yup, I'm with you on my quote! Thanks for bringing it up again. One of my finer posts.

But yeah, one of your finer moments.

And you don't seem particularly inclined to. I'm sorry to have robbed you of your "gotcha" moment. But you have a nice smiley as a fabulous consolation prize.

Please. And here's a just for you.

Where have I heard that one before?

Oh yea....

I'm sorry, I don't give that kind of rhetoric much thought no matter where it comes from.

What makes you think they know what her lead over Bernie in the polls is?

It has nothing to do with polls and everything to do with foisting calumnies on Hillary Clinton.

nt

in their hit pieces against Bernie.

nt

eom

Do tell me about all your experiences at gay bars.

In detail, if you would.

When I was in college my best friend was a bisexual bodybuilder... He liked genetic women, trans women, and cross dressers. Some times we would go drag to shows together...This was the early 80s so the performers were Cher, Donna Summer, and Dolly Parton...Good times...


One time after me, him, and his genetic girlfriend went to a show they asked me to have a three way...But there were some places DSB would not go.

Did they visit upon you, in detail, their thoughts on a Democratic primary?

That's kind of the whole point...

DSB is kind of long in the tooth now...But I am going to make it my business when I go to Vegas for Christmas to go with my gf and her trans girlfriend to a trans bar and see if any of the patrons regale me about politics.

There's one just north of the Strip, right behind the Westgate Resort, formerly the LVH.

I like the bonhomie...

We can see if any of the bros regale us about politics.

I don't find this particularly consonant with your stated ideological leanings.

How come?

If I had a car I would drive up from L A to Oakland and go to the bar with you. I love everybody regardless of their race, gender, or orientation...

It will be one more thing off my bucket list


biker bar (check)
dive bar (check)
gay bar (check)
trans bar (check)
sports bar (check)
country bar (check)
black bar (check)
nudey bar (check) against my will (J/K)
gay black bar -pending

Like I said, I have bartended in a number of venues ... Unless gay bars are, or that particular gay bar is, a special space, I have never seen an instance where people unengaged an unknown person, who does not talk politics in person, with political bashing.

Color my Black ass unconvinced.

I would say at none of those establishments did anybody regale me about politics, especially unsolicited. But in all candor I have never been in a black gay bar so until I take that it off my bucket list I have to allow for the possibility that those bar(s) are the one bar in a thousand where folks regale folks they don't know about politics.

I don't remember ANY political discussions lol.

For one thing, the decibel level was usually too high to have any sort of meaningful conversation.

Haven't been to the bars in years, but I can't imagine striking up a political conversation with strangers just apropos of nothing.

Funny ... I was 21, I was home from college and a friend and I decided to road trip. We ended up in Atlantic City. We found a motel that had a bar across the street.

The bar had some nice music playing and there was a nice male to female ratio ... So, being tired from the drive, we decided to just get a drink and a burger, dance a bit and call it a night.

So we finish the burger and are on our third beer ...so it's time to get our boogie on, right?

I went one way to find a dance partner and my guy went the other ... After about 10 minutes, we met back at the table, dance partner-less. We're both perplexed because neither of us have ever had a problem with women, let alone, finding a woman to dance with.

So, we order another beer ... then, it dawns on me ... No, I saw two men kissing on the dance floor. I looked around and realized we were in a gay bar. (I don't know if that had anything to do with my not finding a dance partner, though.)

I told my guy and he looked around and said, "Man, what the fuck are you waiting for ... let's get the fuck out of here."

I laughed and said, "Yo, chill. I'm finishing this $8 beer first!"



That was my only gay bar experience ... that I know of.

Bench and Bar in Oakland, CA. You can look up its clientele if you like.

I find it interesting how willing and eager you are to dismiss all black perspectives that don't dovetail with your own.

I just don't believe you recounting.

I don't think you believe a lot of things, frankly.

I rarely believe stuff I read on the internet ... especially, the fantastic.

Do you believe discrimination against LGBTers isn't quite as bad because they can pretend not to be?

Just want to get you on paper with that.

Stay classy.

And not one of them, unsolicited, talk shit about Hillary to me.

They do talk about sports, race stuff, and the cops.


I also spend a lot of time with Pacific Islanders*, some of whom are gay, some of whom are trans, and not one of them talk shit about Hillary Clinton.


The only place I hear a lot of people talk shit about Hillary is here.

* my gf's best gf is trans, most of her office mates are gay.

People do not like her policies. She has name recognition most politicians would die for. But no one I know in RL, except for one woman, who also likes Bernie. Everyone else I know, right/left feels she is too much of a war hawk, and this isn't 2001 anymore, people now know they were lied to.

The OP is correct, the only problem Bernie has to overcome is name recognition. And the more of that he gets, the more support he gets.

I meet people every day who never heard of him, and then I tell them about him. Most, if they are Dems are excited to know they have a choice.

By "you" I mean you and other Bernie supporters need to get out and campaign for him, table for him, knock on doors for him. Hell, just walk around with a Bernie shirt or button and have informational flyers ready to hand out.

S.F. REALLY needs to Bernie up because they're ga-ga over HRH. NO idea why seeing as how she was so damned late to the party on LGBTQ issues. And PLEASE remind everyone that Bernie was standing up for LGBT issues back in the 80's when it was considered political suicide to do so.

It's up to US to get the word out about Bernie.

But I didn't press.

I really, really don't do politics in person. I try to get along with everyone and don't like to broach divisive topics. But I did mention Sanders and said they should check him out, but that was the sum of it.

The bartender gave me a free pitcher of beer. Why, I have no idea, but I wasn't about to make waves when everyone was being so nice to me.

in a social situation. I'm suggesting you think about campaigning for him. In little ways and big ways by the methods I mentioned. The problem is he's not getting any kind of publicity (planned) so it's up to us, his supporters, to get his message out. Someone mentioned business cards, also, there are flyers online you can download. I made my own 1/2-page flyers, 2-sided, that I always carry with me, especially when wearing Bernie swag.

being nice is key, sounds like you are cute, you got a free pitcher of beer and you asked them to look into Bernie.

You said they didn't like her, well, that means they are thinking politically. You just gave them an alternative.

You never know which seeds will bloom.

I don't do politics in person well either. But if someone was against HRC and didn't know who Sanders was (that is, they've already opened up about being against HRC) then I feel I can build something there.

The biggest hurdle is getting people, in real life, to talk politics, without it being a fast one liner up and down ideological thing, just, finding people open to hearing your view, and it feels like you and they were on the same page, and I would've jumped for that opportunity.

Once the door is open I find I can really come out of my shell and start talking. I think it's just how us Americans are, we don't talk politics to people we don't know. It's always family or friends or at least co-workers.

I got ridiculed for saying that us Sanders supporters are his ambassadors. That's why I refuse to fall for the toxic shit. Sanders has been ahead of the curve for decades. It's only now that the American people are finally approaching the issues he's been championing positively. This should be used as a basis for where we stand as Sanders supporters.

The way you just did it! Word of mouth!

I mean, how else do you get politics into a gay bar?

We don't give up and keep spreading the word. DO NOT be afraid to speak your mind. There are many print outs of his plan, get some bumper stickers and let people ask. I live in a very, very RED Rich county (me not included) and I have his bumper stickers on my car, on my storm door and on my mail box. People ask questions. Just be ready to answer.

AND don't let them sell you the crap that Socialism is something bad. Socialism is Social Security, Medicare, Educations, Highway System, EPA, Bank Regulations and Union Workers. This list is long.

Never give up, we can no longer expect to elect the same thing and get different results. Do some research on all the huge CEO'S on Wall Street who are supporting Hillary. If you believe she's tacking left because she means it then don't fight. I don't believe it myself.

FIGHT BACK! It's not easy to start a political conversation so just remember a few things about what HAS happened and a few things about what he's saying. Direct them to his FB page or web site. Tell them he takes NO PAC money and that's he's raised almost as much money from millions of small donors as Hillary has with her Super PACS. And living where you do, I know you can find places on the net where you can go to get help locally.

We have time to get the message out and he's not shy about what he feels. And he's been this way in every election he's run. I'm a Boomer white woman and I remember upheaval back then, but we DID change the world.
BTW, I got to go to San Fran about 8 years ago, loved it. I live way down on there West Coast of FL. Lot more happening out there.

And being of the LGBT movement remind them he was on board long before Hillary was. I'm with you all the way. Even in my very RED county I have friends from the movement. I don't like to label people, we're in this together. Gotta run, getting late here.

Good Luck!

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
On Thu Oct 22, 2015, 09:28 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

How does Sanders bridge this gap?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251714337

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

""Eff her (and other enlightened terms)." Literally, not a single guy had a positive thing to say about her. Which, I understood given 2008."

Rude, divisive flamebait.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Oct 22, 2015, 10:04 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Stating a point of view. LEAVE IT
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The statement is reportedly a quote. I'll allow it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's an anecdote of a personal experience. Why was this alerted?
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: You find someone's personal experience alert-able ? Bull. Vote to leave it
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Why was this alerted? Geez. Hillary supporters are alert stalking I guess. I knew it was projection all along when they constantly complained about alert stalking, then one day, one month ago, we saw the truth. And now I see it again here.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

We can't even speak our minds in the Bernie Sanders group without being alerted on?


Oh, silly me. I regularly get harassed so it's not exactly a fucking surprise.

But, I still have no hidden posts. I'm not about flamefests. I just lay things out. Guess the jury agrees of late.

Thanks for the results =)

0-7! Ha!

At least it was 0-7

bringing up his politics, his leadership abilities and pointing out that the status quo hasn't exactly helped anybody's community out, including our own.

You overcome it by taking the risk. I live in Mississippi for Christ's sake. If I can take a risk here, you can take a risk everywhere.

I'm thrilled by the responses I have gotten, too. It's not just Democrats, Independents and Republicans - there is a sea change. Everyone is fed up with the establishment.

Bernie even appeals to some Republicans (which shocked the crap out of me) when they find out what he is all about.

It's really not in my personality. When I go to a bar, I'm just looking to hang out, have a few beers, and just bond with whoever's afoot. I don't want to fight about politics. I wasn't the one to bring the subject up. Someone else mentioned Hillary. I was the one who said, "Well, what about Bernie? . . ." But I didn't press. I just mentioned he was always with us, and that was all.

are Bernie Sanders biggest negatives.

Nevermind, sorry.

Hillary supporters are all just so nice.

was in reaction to something very very unfair posted by a Bernie Sanders supporter.

All just as sweet as can be!

Just responding to the evil Sanders supporters.

Nevermind, sorry

Last edited Fri Oct 23, 2015, 12:08 AM - Edit history (1)

...many don't know who Bernie is.

so obviously a lot of people disagree with you.

I made no statement about her polling, simply that many people don't like her, which is clearly true.

Also, many people don't know who Bernie is, which is also true.

The point is that anecdotal posts are mostly meaningless.

Nevermind, sorry

I posted something thinking I was in the Bernie group, this isn't the Bernie group. My posts didn't make sense here.

Never mind.

I acknowledged it and changed it.

Something one does when one is wrong. It may be novel for you.

But then, I'm not on the guest list.

haters gonna hate.

The MSM froze him out for a long time. It has become impossible for them to continue to do this. But in the meantime, his campaign manager said he will start advertising next month.

Sam

Just wondering.

Do you think LGBT have a generally easier time of things because we can hide who we are?

yes, they do tend have it easier in society...if you're looking at it from the outside.

In my experience, the "straight acting" gay men get really fucked mentally more so than those who can't hide (in that case, that really is more or a matter of societal homophobia and how one deals with that)...when LGBTs are out of the closet, they tend to be better adjusted, in my experience.

Could you pass it along to Bravenak?

Danke mucho.

The fact is that most people aren't as tuned to politics as the average DU'er, even cable news is so much background noise to them.

So the last impression that these patrons (and many, many others) may have of Hillary Clinton IS 2008.

and besides...you seem to be making a pretty broad-based judgment based on one event at one (strange) gay bar

that much and unlikely they will vote.

Much of our politics news comes from peers and family if we are not politically active.
My family calls me and I have a YUGE family of all colors. So I tell them who to vote for.

His views aside, who is he as a person? How does he connect with everyday people on a human level?

As far as reaching out to minorities, his best chance right now is with people who've never heard of him. Those of us who have heard of him have overwhelmingly said no for various reasons.

and maybe a Bernie Sanders supporter who also is a blogger and a tweeter too.

Zero ads.

How does he overcome "Who?"? Well, they're planning to start running ads soon. It's pretty normal to not run ads until closer to the primary/caucus.

Team Clinton has been running a lot of ads, apparently hoping to render everyone else to "also-ran" early.

and his stands on issues on the back of it. When someone doesn't know who he is, I hand them a card and ask them to take some time to look him up. They always seem interested.

i got the cards at a tableing event I attended but one could easily make their own.

I been hearing people say, "PEOPLE OF COLOR WON'T VOTE for BERNIE SANDERS". HELLO???
I am a Bi-Sexual Asian woman and HE HAS MY VOTE. Don't tell me people of color will not vote for him, unless......UNLESS you have come to the conclusion that Asian people are not people of color. I am tired of the meme that ASIANS DON'T BOTHER TO VOTE...damn it. We voted for Obama...and We will VOTE AGAIN.

Most who plan to vote in the primary certainly know who Sanders is.

If so, any chance this was the band?

https://www.facebook.com/GayBlackRepublican

Anyway, the California primary isn't until June. Plenty of time between now and then for Sanders to get more well known out there. Remember, politics isn't a big part of most people's lives. A lot of it is just tuned out until it's close to election time (and unfortunately, often even then).