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madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 04:19 PM Oct 2015

Let's talk Third Way. Some links about its founding and the founders.

One link I found at The Guardian in 2003 recounts the founding and purpose from the point of view of Tony Blair.

A brief history of the third way

What was the third way all about?
The so-called third way is New Labour's attempt to build itself an ideological foundation. In the face of accusations that the decision to re-christen the party and re-write clause IV was motivated purely by electoralism, Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson sought to prove their ideological convictions.

.....Wasn't Bill Clinton involved?
Bill Clinton's electoral success after renaming his party the New Democrats was an inspiration to Mr Blair and his fellow Labour modernisers. Both shared the belief that a new ideological compass was needed.

In September 1998, Mr Clinton and Mr Blair held a conference in New York to officially launch their new ideology. Both said they rejected the neo-liberal belief that everything can be left to the market, but also saw the traditional left-of-centre faith in state intervention in the economy as outdated.

.....What's the state of play now?
Three years on, however, the outlook for the third way looks bleak. A Republican is in the White House and Mr Schröder has turned away from his earlier fascination with the Clinton-Blair outlook towards a more traditional leftwing stance.


TIME carried an article about this in 1998. They called it the Third Way Wonkfest. The link is still there, but it's behind a firewall. I saved a few paragraphs.

Tony Blair, the New Dems and the Third Way Wonkfest 1998.

After Bill Clinton and Tony Blair finish with the elegant dinners and toasts at the G-8 summit this week in England, the real fun begins: the two leaders will lock themselves in a room with a clutch of top officials to talk about government policy for four or five hours. The Sunday meeting at Chequers, the Prime Minister's country mansion north of London, will be the third such bilateral seminar, following one at the White House, when Blair visited in February, and the inaugural 12-hr. "wonkathon" at Chequers in November, when Hillary Clinton sat in for her husband.

The lofty chatfests symbolize the intimate political relationship between Clinton, a "new Democrat," and Blair, creator of new Labour. Each claims to embody a type of politics that is not just a poll-driven centrism but a "third way," a favorite Blair slogan and a phrase that Clinton highlighted in this year's State of the Union message. "Both governments have to react to challenges like globalization and better education for workers, and we have similar perspectives on what's needed," says White House aide Sidney Blumenthal, who organizes the meetings with his British counterpart, David Miliband, Blair's policy chief.

On the agenda for Chequers are social security, welfare, crime, health policy and education, with eight to 10 participants from each side.


The DLC, a very strong think tank at the time, were very pleased that Tony Blair was in support of the Iraq War. In fact they even named the Democrats who voted for the war the "Blair Democrats."

From the WP

The Blair Democrats: Ready for Battle

Will Marshall May 1, 2003

The U.S.-led coalition's stunning success in liberating Iraq is undoubtedly a triumph for President Bush. But Karl Rove shouldn't get too giddy, because it may be a boon for some Democrats, too.

After all, four of the leading Democratic presidential contenders -- Rep. Dick Gephardt and Sens. Joseph Lieberman, John Kerry and John Edwards -- not only voted to support the war but also joined British Prime Minister Tony Blair in demanding that Bush challenge the United Nations to live up to its responsibilities to disarm Iraq. This position put these "Blair Democrats" in sync with the vast majority of Americans who said they would much rather attack Saddam Hussein's regime with United Nations backing than without it. And it puts them at odds with what Kerry called the "blustery unilateralism" of the president, which combined with French obstructionism to rupture not only the United Nations but the Atlantic alliance as well.

Like Bush, these Democrats did not shrink from the use of force to end Hussein's reign of terror. Like Blair, they saw the Iraq crisis as a test of Western resolve and the United Nations' credibility as an effective instrument of collective security.


And from Lee Fang at The Nation in 2013:

GOP Donors and K Street Fuel Third Way’s Advice for the Democratic Party

Third Way, a centrist think tank that portrays itself as a Democratic group, has some advice for the party: avoid economic populism at all costs. In a column for The Wall Street Journal today, the group argues that the party should steer clear of creating a strong safety net, and criticizes Mayor-elect Bill de Blasio’s call for universal pre-K funded through an upper-income tax increase as a foolhardy idea for national Democrats.


......Buried inside the annual report for Third Way is a revelation that the group relies on a peculiar DC consulting firm to raise half a million a year: Peck, Madigan, Jones & Stewart. Peck Madigan is no ordinary nonprofit buckraiser. The group is, in fact, a corporate lobbying firm that represents Deutsche Bank, Intel, the Business Roundtable, Amgen, AT&T, the International Swaps & Derivatives Association, MasterCard, New York Life Insurance, PhRMA and the US Chamber of Commerce, among others.

The two organizations complement each other well. Peck Madigan signs as a lobbyist for the government of New Zealand on the Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade deal; Third Way aggressively promotes the deal. Peck Madigan clients push for entitlement cuts, and so does Third Way.

Notice that Humana, a major health insurance company, lists its $50,000 donation to Third Way not as a donation to a think tank but as part of its yearly budget spent on lobbying activity, up there with the Florida Chamber and other trade associations. The company views financial gifts to Third Way as part of its strategy for increasing its profit-making political influence.

What’s more, Third Way’s leadership has tenuous connections to the Democratic Party it hopes to shape. Daniel Loeb, a hedge fund manager listed as a trustee on Third Way’s 2012 annual disclosure, bundled $556,031 for Mitt Romney last year. Third Way board member Derek Kaufman, another hedge fund executive, also gave to Romney.


They call themselves "progressives", but they are not at all.

They represent everything that Bernie Sanders is opposing right now.

Bill Clinton was there at the founding of the DLC as well. The founder, Al From, made it clear they wanted to have a "bloodless revolution" in our Democratic Party.

The DLC group is sometimes portrayed as a pro-Wall Street set of lobbyists. And From did recruit hedge fund legends like Michael Steinhardt to fund his movement. But to argue these people were corrupt or motivated by a pay to play form of politics is wrong. From is clearly a reformer and an ideologue, and his colleagues believed they were serving the public interest. “Make no mistake about it,” wrote From in a memo about his organization’s strategy, “what we hope to accomplish with the DLC is a bloodless revolution in our party." It is not unlike what the conservatives accomplished in the Republican Party during the 1960s and 1970s.


Al From's words to Bill Clinton about NAFTA show whose interests the DLC and its new form, the Third Way, had in mind.

'“Politically, a victory on NAFTA would assert your leadership over your own party by making it clear that you, not the Democratic leadership in Congress or the interest groups, set the Democratic Party’s agenda on matters of real national importance.”


They may claim to be "progressives", but in thought and deed the two groups are/were "conservative."
230 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Let's talk Third Way. Some links about its founding and the founders. (Original Post) madfloridian Oct 2015 OP
Thanks MohRokTah Oct 2015 #1
Glad you found your way. madfloridian Oct 2015 #2
It's the best way MohRokTah Oct 2015 #4
the present tk2kewl Oct 2015 #14
Space. eom MohRokTah Oct 2015 #20
Go for it, why wait? The rest of us will have more air and water after you leave. dreamnightwind Oct 2015 #49
Here you go... Purveyor Oct 2015 #58
Just like in Elysium? BeanMusical Oct 2015 #115
*** Squirrel !!! *** cprise Oct 2015 #205
Clinton is rejecting capitalism by refusing to break up banks cprise Oct 2015 #21
I love yr comment about her policies being like getting 20 bucks off of truedelphi Oct 2015 #35
Bravo, in a nutshell & well said! nt mother earth Oct 2015 #66
Thank you Ronald Reagan for your astute analysis Armstead Oct 2015 #23
:) Phlem Oct 2015 #61
Europe's Democratic Socialists are failures? That Guy 888 Oct 2015 #24
That's where they're going with the red baiting. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #63
It has already begun: arcane1 Oct 2015 #69
Oh noes! BERNIE'S GONNA TAKE MY LEMONADE STAND!!1! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #70
Government-run lemonade stands that all look like Soviet apartment blocks arcane1 Oct 2015 #73
LOL! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #79
:facepalm: BeanMusical Oct 2015 #125
There's a difference between saying what Sanders himself says he is, i.e., "socialist"..... George II Oct 2015 #174
Canuks did Not Live Through the Era of McCarthy McKim Oct 2015 #183
Some people's understanding, such as the author of that thread, of socialism ... Fantastic Anarchist Oct 2015 #175
Communism-What is their military looking like? No Red Army? DhhD Oct 2015 #81
History proved that the New Deal was a resounding success n/t eridani Oct 2015 #180
I guess FDR and a middle class with the highest standard of living the world has ever known... raindaddy Oct 2015 #187
The game Monopoly proves Capitalism is an abysmal failure for all but one lone winner. Live and Learn Oct 2015 #188
I still support Sanders and oppose Hillary more than I did before this OP was posted. Autumn Oct 2015 #41
Why does this scenario come to mind? passiveporcupine Oct 2015 #52
You support Hillary? NO! BuelahWitch Oct 2015 #103
The only conclusion is that you support the leadership of corporations and their puppets and rhett o rick Oct 2015 #130
As I stated previously, anyone that doesn't support Sanders is voting for selfish reasons. Live and Learn Oct 2015 #189
Is Bill Clinton in the primaries? upaloopa Oct 2015 #3
Hillary Clinton was a member of the DLC riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #7
Still not about the primaries upaloopa Oct 2015 #11
So you don't think a candidates past history is relevant? riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #13
C'mon now. Not when it makes them look bad. Phlem Oct 2015 #56
Have you attempted to post any discussion in any forums lately? truedelphi Oct 2015 #37
They hearings yesterday were not about the primaries. Did you complain about those OPs? Autumn Oct 2015 #42
Make up your damned minds - TBF Oct 2015 #96
Obama was NEVER a member of the DLC. eom MohRokTah Oct 2015 #22
He self identifies as a "New Democrat" which is a DLC identifier riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #27
Same here. truedelphi Oct 2015 #40
Nothing in your link about him being in the DLC. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #85
Lol! Parse away... riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #90
The only parsing being done is by anybody who would say Obama was a member of the DLC. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #91
Lol!!! Oh I read it. Good luck with that... riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #102
Thanks for revealing just how much of an extremist you are. eom MohRokTah Oct 2015 #107
The irony! BeanMusical Oct 2015 #126
The heart break and reductio ad absurdum of Identity politics Fairgo Oct 2015 #152
Nope. Obama is a distinction without a difference riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #132
More extremism MohRokTah Oct 2015 #134
"radical leftist extremists" ? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #135
By their words they shall be known. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #136
Oh the extremist in this thread has made themselves known, all right. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #137
You would certainly know. eom MohRokTah Oct 2015 #139
Yep, I can spot right wing rhetoric a mile away. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #141
I can spot left wing extremism miles away and fortunately it has no effect outside internet forums. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #147
Conservative Dems: Words mean what we want them to mean on DU! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #148
There is no such thing as "Conservative Dems". MohRokTah Oct 2015 #149
ahem: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #150
Internet myth. There are no Conservative Democrats MohRokTah Oct 2015 #154
Just because you don't like the label doesn't mean it's a myth. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #155
Parse all you like MohRokTah Oct 2015 #156
Parse = proved Conservative Democrats aren't a myth? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #157
No proof whatsoever, just leftist extremist BS. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #158
bluedogdems.com is "leftist extremist BS"? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #160
Keep digging. BeanMusical Oct 2015 #165
There is no such thing as "Global Warming"! BeanMusical Oct 2015 #162
LMAO! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #163
Lol! BeanMusical Oct 2015 #164
I'm convinced that you are really great at satire or really awful at trolling. Fantastic Anarchist Oct 2015 #178
What exactly is a "radical leftist extremist?" blackspade Oct 2015 #206
Shame on those radical leftist extremists for bring us the 8-hour workday, labor laws, ... Fantastic Anarchist Oct 2015 #177
Actually, there are millions of sulphurdunn Oct 2015 #186
How dare he/she disagree with you! Fantastic Anarchist Oct 2015 #176
Unknown to him he was listed as a member, and as soon as he found out... George II Oct 2015 #172
He's DLC - there are really better things to discuss TBF Oct 2015 #182
There are a lot of political myths that are accepted as gospel by the majority of people here YoungDemCA Oct 2015 #194
It's weird. I wonder how many people here are really Birthers, too. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #202
His own words: madfloridian Oct 2015 #28
Sweet link. Phlem Oct 2015 #62
Nothing in your link about him being in the DLC. He was NEVER a member of the DLC. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #88
New Democrats rose from the DLC. Don't accuse me of falsehoods and innuendo. madfloridian Oct 2015 #123
Here's a link to help you. madfloridian Oct 2015 #124
Yet another link without anything about Obama being in the DLC. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #128
Being so obtuse is not a virtue, you do realize this, right? Fantastic Anarchist Oct 2015 #179
The ideologies of both Clintons parallel very closely with that of the old DLC and new Third Way. rhett o rick Oct 2015 #192
His own words: George II Oct 2015 #138
.... Phlem Oct 2015 #60
Nothing there about Obama being in the DLC. MohRokTah Oct 2015 #84
Of Course. Phlem Oct 2015 #170
If Sanders ever joined the Democratic Party... George II Oct 2015 #32
Or he could have stayed an Independent while voting for neverforget Oct 2015 #39
Like he did yesterday when he voted against a Dianne Feinstein amendment and... George II Oct 2015 #55
You mean when he stood with 12 Democrats to protect our privacy rights? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #57
He voted WITH Rand Paul and against the majority of Democrats. George II Oct 2015 #67
He stood with these 12 Democrats, not with Rand Paul: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #68
All I know is that he voted with a Republican Presidential candidate and voted against.... George II Oct 2015 #71
12 Dems, and 1 republican = voting with the republican? arcane1 Oct 2015 #74
So you're hinting that he did NOT vote with someone who could be his opponent next November..... George II Oct 2015 #77
How many republican candidates in 2007 and 2015 voted for, or endorsed, the Iraq war? arcane1 Oct 2015 #80
He voted to protect our privacy rights, and so did Elizabeth Warren. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #76
When Sanders entered the Democratic Presidential race one the rationales both he and his followers.. George II Oct 2015 #116
Really? Do you have a link to where we said he "always votes with the Democratic caucus"? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #117
I don't know why Warren voted against the amendment, all I know is that a Democratic... George II Oct 2015 #119
You would rather have him vote against our interests just to oppose Rand Paul? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #120
Apparently he opposed about three quarters of the Democrats in the Senate, too. George II Oct 2015 #121
Because of privacy rights - good! You didn't answer my question, why do you support the bill? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #122
Here are the other Dems who voted the same way madfloridian Oct 2015 #98
12 Democrats voted against it (27%), 32 Democrats voted for it (72%) George II Oct 2015 #118
The only people i would consider Spirochete Oct 2015 #151
And 50 Republicans voted for it. Which means he voted against 98% of the Republicans voting. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #171
So the majority of the Democratic caucus voted with the GOP. blackspade Oct 2015 #207
No it isn't, you missed my point - Sanders and his followers like to throw out the concept.... George II Oct 2015 #211
You never did say, George, why do you support the bill? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #212
Who specifically makes that arguement? blackspade Oct 2015 #227
"All I know is that he voted with a Republican yada yada" BeanMusical Oct 2015 #131
Not a just a "republican yada yada", but a republican who may be running against Hillary Clinton.... George II Oct 2015 #210
And a Democratic woman who will hopefully be Bernie's VP! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #214
Yes, he should but he's not. That's very intriguing. BeanMusical Oct 2015 #215
Isn't it? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #217
Great, now I have Seinfeld's theme song as an earworm. BeanMusical Oct 2015 #221
Quick, listen to this George: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #222
Thanks, far better earworm. BeanMusical Oct 2015 #224
Who's obsessed with Paul? I just find it very disappointing that a person who is running.... George II Oct 2015 #216
You're disappointed that Senators Sanders and Warren are concerned with privacy rights? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #218
Huh? George II Oct 2015 #219
If you fault Bernie because he "stood" with a Republican you have to fault Hillary for doing it too. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #220
Don't you love it when they leave crucial information OUT BuelahWitch Oct 2015 #153
It's the only way to make the memes work. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #159
Please explain why you think the vote was wrong. TheKentuckian Oct 2015 #113
So you are saying Bill and Hillary became DLCers to gain something for themselves? Autumn Oct 2015 #46
I didn't say anything like that. Sanders isn't a "politician", he's an opportunist. George II Oct 2015 #50
In what way is he an "opportunist"? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #59
ALL politicians are opportunists. Volaris Oct 2015 #72
George words do have meaning even if you don't want them to. Autumn Oct 2015 #75
Words mean whatever some Hillary supporters want them to mean: beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #83
I'm actually still chuckling at "Third Way Progressives" riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #92
Me too! But I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #94
Oh me neither. riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #99
It's good for amusement but little else. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #101
Pretty soon it will be Bernie hates Obama! riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #105
They've been using that talking point for months, it's part of the 'Bernie is a racist' meme. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #106
That pathetic attempt at a meme hifiguy Oct 2015 #213
Funny isn't it. My favorite all time poster was the one complaining about rec circles Autumn Oct 2015 #110
You mean Big Rec™ ? beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #111
I had no clue he had been trade marked LOL Autumn Oct 2015 #112
That was courtesy of Capt. Obvious! beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #114
That depends on what the definition of 'IS' is. n/t Utopian Leftist Oct 2015 #204
What? Are you really asking if Bill Clinton is in the primaries? rhett o rick Oct 2015 #190
Thanks mad. No matter which candidate one supports, your OPs are always 1st rate riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #5
Just saying is all portlander23 Oct 2015 #6
Good post. Their attacks on the social safety nets is to me a dangerous thing. madfloridian Oct 2015 #8
Great post. Very informative. Thank you. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #173
Yep. That's when the Democratic party started abandoning what was traditionally liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #9
Yes, they "switched loyalties." madfloridian Oct 2015 #15
The New Democrats were very apparent with a new 1998 law to privatize most of the U.S. DhhD Oct 2015 #95
Ah, thanks for that link. madfloridian Oct 2015 #97
"traditionally Democratic values" YoungDemCA Oct 2015 #195
And Third Way site has the info you need about TPP.... madfloridian Oct 2015 #10
Oh Goodie! To think that once again, truedelphi Oct 2015 #44
AND that new trade policy is going through no matter what. madfloridian Oct 2015 #161
K&R CharlotteVale Oct 2015 #12
Is there any lasting, positive testimony of Thirdwayer's contributions to society? Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #16
They have had plenty of time to prove their way works and have failed. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #17
Obviously, there are people who don't realize that fact. Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #26
K&R FloriTexan Oct 2015 #18
..... madfloridian Oct 2015 #19
Here is one from me. moabfan Oct 2015 #48
Before Clinton, Democrats couldn't gain the WH for 20+ years. JaneyVee Oct 2015 #25
Are you saying that artislife Oct 2015 #29
I think the choice to speak in "years" rather than "terms" is very telling HereSince1628 Oct 2015 #36
He only got in via a third party spoiler by the name moabfan Oct 2015 #53
That's a right wing myth. All evidence points to the contrary. wyldwolf Oct 2015 #78
What I've learned on DU is that some people would rather support gadfly, losing candidates YoungDemCA Oct 2015 #196
Um, it was 16 years between Carter and Clinton.... blackspade Oct 2015 #208
Excellent, thoughtful OP on the FACTS of this reprehensible Think Tank the represents the interests sabrina 1 Oct 2015 #30
"avoid economic populism at all costs" DirkGently Oct 2015 #31
Yeah, but she did once march down there and she told them, cut it out, guys! TwilightGardener Oct 2015 #33
we have yet to see the 401(k) bubble burst but it will. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #34
One day shenmue Oct 2015 #38
"shadowy libertarian accusations"???? madfloridian Oct 2015 #45
It's just weird.... haikugal Oct 2015 #142
Can't believe someone thinks I'm libertarian in any way. madfloridian Oct 2015 #143
Yeah.. haikugal Oct 2015 #145
I had already decided - no vote from me for any DLC, DINO, New Democrat Coalition, any politician djean111 Oct 2015 #43
The group's willingness to sacrifice Social Security and other social safety nets... madfloridian Oct 2015 #47
Shkreli Democrats MisterP Oct 2015 #51
Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Oct 2015 #54
Thanks. I just wish that the supporters of the conservative democratic candidate would Doctor_J Oct 2015 #64
K & R, explains a lot & makes perfect sense, it's all part of the oligarchy stranglehold mother earth Oct 2015 #65
No more Turd Way! Dont call me Shirley Oct 2015 #82
Third Way? No way? Corporatists davemac Oct 2015 #86
K & R azmom Oct 2015 #87
Neolibs of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your principles! Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #89
I saw folks trying to re-write history on DU today - TBF Oct 2015 #93
Thanks MadFloridian... Long But Concise & Clear! All I Have ChiciB1 Oct 2015 #100
More from Guardian 2005 Third Way Away Day madfloridian Oct 2015 #104
Others in 2005 were against Hillary Clinton being in the Senate. Blair's emails were known then. DhhD Oct 2015 #184
K & R historylovr Oct 2015 #108
Follow the money ;) Babel_17 Oct 2015 #109
HRC Is A Pawn Of the Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks That Pay For Her Campaign cantbeserious Oct 2015 #127
Kick and R BeanMusical Oct 2015 #129
'Bill' Clinton bigtree Oct 2015 #133
Except of course HRC actually was a DLC member riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #140
that tells me very little about her positions and record bigtree Oct 2015 #144
The DLC has/had very public positions on the issues riderinthestorm Oct 2015 #146
I don't need google bigtree Oct 2015 #181
No, it's misleading to try to separate Hillary from the DLC. DirkGently Oct 2015 #198
I agree Dem2 Oct 2015 #168
I see this discussion as about The DLC and/or The Third Way's influence on the Democratic rhett o rick Oct 2015 #191
more progressive than thou politics? bigtree Oct 2015 #225
Why don't you turn your questions into statements? nm rhett o rick Oct 2015 #228
Nice research Dem2 Oct 2015 #166
Also linked to Social Democracy via Anthony Giddens it seems: ucrdem Oct 2015 #167
If you like the third way you'll just love Hillary's presidency. Bernblu Oct 2015 #169
The legendary Tony Benn used to keep a tea mug in his office that read: forest444 Oct 2015 #185
great post Locrian Oct 2015 #193
K & R AzDar Oct 2015 #197
Thank you emsimon33 Oct 2015 #199
No more Clinton. SoapBox Oct 2015 #200
A kinder, gentler republiconism noiretextatique Oct 2015 #201
What works for CONS (I.E. whatever they can get away with) Utopian Leftist Oct 2015 #203
The essence of Third Way hifiguy Oct 2015 #209
How the Democratic Party Lost its Soul antigop Oct 2015 #223
After NAFTA 13 million new jobs were created, industrial grew 3x fasrer then the 2 previous decades BlueStateLib Oct 2015 #226
Now they say goal should be to have businesses hire all around the world. madfloridian Oct 2015 #229
Democrats were tired of losing the Presidency Recursion Oct 2015 #230
 

tk2kewl

(18,133 posts)
14. the present
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 04:44 PM
Oct 2015

Proves that an economic system based on continuing growth and consumption is devouring the planet. So what's your plan?

cprise

(8,445 posts)
21. Clinton is rejecting capitalism by refusing to break up banks
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:07 PM
Oct 2015

or to reinstate Glass-Steagal. She's an oligarch, or crony capitalist who likes to generate good PR for herself with humanitarian causes. Its like getting a $20 OFF coupon from a mugging.

Sometimes you need some good socialists to get capitalism working again...

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
35. I love yr comment about her policies being like getting 20 bucks off of
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:29 PM
Oct 2015

A mugging.

That one comment says it all. (And most of the policies of Barack Obama are the same.)

 

That Guy 888

(1,214 posts)
24. Europe's Democratic Socialists are failures?
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:11 PM
Oct 2015

All socialism is communism hmm, what's next? Are they actually the same thing as the nazi party?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
63. That's where they're going with the red baiting.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:12 PM
Oct 2015

It's only a matter of time before that right wing talking point is posted on DU.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
73. Government-run lemonade stands that all look like Soviet apartment blocks
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:23 PM
Oct 2015

THIS is the dystopian nightmare that awaits!!1

George II

(67,782 posts)
174. There's a difference between saying what Sanders himself says he is, i.e., "socialist".....
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 12:43 AM
Oct 2015

....and red baiting, which involves communism not socialism.

BIG difference.

McKim

(2,412 posts)
183. Canuks did Not Live Through the Era of McCarthy
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 09:00 AM
Oct 2015

As a Canuk, you did not live through the McCarthy Era and the hysteria of the Red Scare. There was hysteria, people went to jail and some were executed, many lost jobs and livelihoods. Anyone who was red or pink was very threatened. This still lurks in the collective memory of the body politic of the USA. It is still powerful. It makes no sense, but there it is.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
175. Some people's understanding, such as the author of that thread, of socialism ...
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 03:08 AM
Oct 2015

... is woefully inadequate and depressing at the same time.

raindaddy

(1,370 posts)
187. I guess FDR and a middle class with the highest standard of living the world has ever known...
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 12:12 PM
Oct 2015

was a figment of our imaginations...

If a third way Wall Street controlled Democratic party continues, the mass exodus of progressives from the party will continue as well.
And it starts the day Hillary starts appointing industry hacks to her administration.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
188. The game Monopoly proves Capitalism is an abysmal failure for all but one lone winner.
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 12:30 PM
Oct 2015

Capitalism without socialist policies is also doomed to failure as proven throughout history.

Society itself is a Socialist concept since they derive from the same words. Keep in mind that is the society the determines what rules and economic systems they are willing to abide. I seriously doubt society is going to agree that you should get more and more wealth while others starve and die from lack of healthcare, shelter and food.

Bernie's political revolution is a way to avoid a societal revolution. I think you should heed his call because actual revolutions are not pretty and you could lose everything.

passiveporcupine

(8,175 posts)
52. Why does this scenario come to mind?
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:56 PM
Oct 2015

Chris: "Hey Joe, how ya doing?"

Joe: "Hi Chris, just fine. Hey, what are you reading there?"

Chris: "Oh, it's just a new study out on the danger of cigarettes. Says the tobacco companies knew all along that cigs were addictive and that they contained carcinogens. They all lied to congress about it."

Joe: "Oh yeah? Well, now I'm going out to buy another pack of cigarettes...thanks for giving me a reason! Stupid scientists. They don't know anything. And you shouldn't be pushing crap like that, Chris. It's a free country and I can smoke if I want and I can quit any time I want. Addictive my ass!"

Chris: "Hell Joe, you asked what I was reading. I never pushed anything on you".

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
130. The only conclusion is that you support the leadership of corporations and their puppets and
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 08:59 PM
Oct 2015

don't really worry about the 50 million Americans living in poverty. The Third Way doesn't care about Black Lives, in fact they support for-profit prisons. Those 16 million American children living in poverty mean nothing to Goldman-Sachs and their puppet politicians. Yes you've made your stand very clear here. In this class war, you choose the side of the biggest bullies, the 1%.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
189. As I stated previously, anyone that doesn't support Sanders is voting for selfish reasons.
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 12:36 PM
Oct 2015

Your posts are proof that my theory is correct.

However, even some of the most wealthy have come to realize that fixing the wealth inequalities are actually in their best interest. Why? Because the public will not tolerate what is occurring today for long. Society DEMANDS some socialist programs, regulations and intervention.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
11. Still not about the primaries
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 04:41 PM
Oct 2015

Hillary was not in office
Maybe add something factual with a citation about Hillary and the primaries

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
37. Have you attempted to post any discussion in any forums lately?
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:33 PM
Oct 2015

Right off the bat, you are made to stop and think about whether your discussion topic reflects on the Primaries or not.

So I would say that there was no other place that Madfloridian could put this.

TBF

(32,047 posts)
96. Make up your damned minds -
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:51 PM
Oct 2015

one day Hillary is the most experienced candidate in the history of the world because she was first lady, the next day she can't be associated with Bill at all because she was only first lady

You can't have it both ways.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
27. He self identifies as a "New Democrat" which is a DLC identifier
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:14 PM
Oct 2015
In May 2009, President Obama reportedly declared to the House New Democrat Coalition, the congressional arm of the DLC, "I am a New Democrat."


http://www.politico.com/story/2009/03/obama-i-am-a-new-democrat-019862

But ok, I'm not interested in parsing this to death even as Obama has demonstrably proven he's fully in line with DLC positions.



truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
40. Same here.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:37 PM
Oct 2015

You say: "I'm not interested in parsing this to death even as Obama has demonstrably proven he's fully in line with DLC positions."

With which I very much agree.

And then there is the ol' canard: Actions speak larger than words.

Obama's actions in handing the nation over to the Big Bankers fall totally in line with the DLC.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
91. The only parsing being done is by anybody who would say Obama was a member of the DLC.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:44 PM
Oct 2015

That crap accusation was debunked back in 2004 when he ran for the US Senate and it takes massive parsing to try and dredge the nonsense up now.

You obviously failed to read the link I provided from 2004.

Fairgo

(1,571 posts)
152. The heart break and reductio ad absurdum of Identity politics
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 10:13 PM
Oct 2015

There is no history. What you do does not matter. The only reality is the team mascot. Go Badgers!

There is an irony deficiency in this one...

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
132. Nope. Obama is a distinction without a difference
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 09:05 PM
Oct 2015

Those of us with ears and eyes can see it plain as day. I could give a shit if he's adopted the label or not. His actions are clear.

Hillary is also DLC and Third Way. Since you support her, it's not "extremist" to point out the policy resemblances between her and Obama. And how they differ v Sanders.

But please continue to play obtuse. It says way more about you than me. I remain amused.

Please have the last word!! I'm counting on it!



 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
134. More extremism
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 09:10 PM
Oct 2015

The best part about radical leftist extremists is there are so few of them they have little to no impact on Democratic policy making.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
136. By their words they shall be known.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 09:25 PM
Oct 2015

Yes, radical leftist extremists.

Just as bad for the Democratic Party as radical rightist extremists have been for the Republican party.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
147. I can spot left wing extremism miles away and fortunately it has no effect outside internet forums.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 09:49 PM
Oct 2015


The best thing is the radical extremists think they are driving the Democratic Party when in reality the vast majority of the party is laughing at them.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
150. ahem:
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 10:01 PM
Oct 2015
In American politics, a conservative Democrat is a member of the Democratic Party with conservative political views, or with views relatively conservative with respect to those of the national party.

Conservative Democrat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_DemocratWikipedia



blackspade

(10,056 posts)
206. What exactly is a "radical leftist extremist?"
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 09:13 PM
Oct 2015

Can you provide a definition or some examples?

Thanks in advance.

Fantastic Anarchist

(7,309 posts)
177. Shame on those radical leftist extremists for bring us the 8-hour workday, labor laws, ...
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 03:14 AM
Oct 2015

... prohibition of child labor exploitation, safe working conditions, 5-day workweek, fair wages, etc.

Damn leftist extremists made my life better. I'll have none of that!

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
186. Actually, there are millions of
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 12:09 PM
Oct 2015

radical leftist extremists (democrats) in the Democratic Party, without whom the entire republican light enterprise would collapse. That day will come when enough of these 'dirty fucking hippies' decide that the lesser of two evils canard is no longer an option. When that day arrives, the country will actually have a two party system again, and everyone will know whose side they're on.

George II

(67,782 posts)
172. Unknown to him he was listed as a member, and as soon as he found out...
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 12:40 AM
Oct 2015

....he demanded that his name be deleted.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html

Barack Obama will not be carrying the Democratic Leadership Council’s baggage in his race to become the second Black person to represent Illinois in the U.S. Senate. The state senator and professor of constitutional law has told The Black Commentator that he is acting to have his name stricken from the “New Democrats Directory,” a list of several hundred DLC-affiliated elected officials.

“I am not currently, nor have I ever been, a member of the DLC,” said Obama, in a statement that substantially reflects a telephone conversation with Associate Editor Bruce Dixon, this weekend. “It does appear that, without my knowledge, the DLC…listed me in their ‘New Democrat’ directory,” Obama continued. “Because I agree that such a directory implies membership, I will be calling the DLC to have my name removed, and appreciate your having brought this fact to my attention.”

TBF

(32,047 posts)
182. He's DLC - there are really better things to discuss
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 08:44 AM
Oct 2015

despite the fact that he's pretty conservative I campaigned for him as well. He was the charismatic candidate we needed at the time to gently push Bush out of the White House and start trying to repair the country. I literally sighed a breath of relief when the Bushes got in their helicopter and left the city. None of us knew what Cheney was capable of.

I didn't like some of his appointments (Duncan, Emmanuel spring to mind first), and I've posted some criticisms in the socialist group from time to time of specific policy. But when all is said and done I think he will be remembered well - especially for ACA and his humor. He has been a breath of fresh air in many ways.

My feeling now is that we can step it up and put a real reformer in the office to tackle income inequality and climate change. I see that in Bernie, you may feel Hillary has a more realistic chance. That's fine.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
194. There are a lot of political myths that are accepted as gospel by the majority of people here
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 01:42 PM
Oct 2015

This is one of them.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
202. It's weird. I wonder how many people here are really Birthers, too.
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 02:46 PM
Oct 2015

I wouldn't put something like that past many of those who do nothing but condemn Obama and Hillary.

Next thing you know, there will be the body count lists showing up here, or Vince Foster CT BS.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
88. Nothing in your link about him being in the DLC. He was NEVER a member of the DLC.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:35 PM
Oct 2015

All you have are falsehoods and innuendoes while the old DLC when it existed erroneously listed him as a member which he vehemently denied and the DLC agreed, he was never a member:

http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
123. New Democrats rose from the DLC. Don't accuse me of falsehoods and innuendo.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 08:23 PM
Oct 2015

Look up Simon Rosenberg, NDN

Meanwhile I can do some research for you.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
128. Yet another link without anything about Obama being in the DLC.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 08:48 PM
Oct 2015

Your assertion has been proved false by the link in my prior post.

Thanks for playing.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
192. The ideologies of both Clintons parallel very closely with that of the old DLC and new Third Way.
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 12:46 PM
Oct 2015

That's the bottom line. They represent the 1%. If that's what you want, then your support of HRC is understandable. Sen Sanders clearly represents the People.

George II

(67,782 posts)
138. His own words:
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 09:33 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html

Barack Obama will not be carrying the Democratic Leadership Council’s baggage in his race to become the second Black person to represent Illinois in the U.S. Senate. The state senator and professor of constitutional law has told The Black Commentator that he is acting to have his name stricken from the “New Democrats Directory,” a list of several hundred DLC-affiliated elected officials.

“I am not currently, nor have I ever been, a member of the DLC,” said Obama, in a statement that substantially reflects a telephone conversation with Associate Editor Bruce Dixon, this weekend. “It does appear that, without my knowledge, the DLC…listed me in their ‘New Democrat’ directory,” Obama continued. “Because I agree that such a directory implies membership, I will be calling the DLC to have my name removed, and appreciate your having brought this fact to my attention.”

George II

(67,782 posts)
32. If Sanders ever joined the Democratic Party...
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:22 PM
Oct 2015

...he could have been a member of the DLC and made a difference, but there was nothing in it for him.

Pity.

neverforget

(9,436 posts)
39. Or he could have stayed an Independent while voting for
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:37 PM
Oct 2015

Democratic leaders, bills and Presidential appointments in the House and Senate.

Oh yeah, he did that all without the "D" behind his name.

George II

(67,782 posts)
55. Like he did yesterday when he voted against a Dianne Feinstein amendment and...
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:03 PM
Oct 2015

...against the Democrats?

The amendment sponsored by Dianne Feinstein was passed 83-14, he was one of the 14.

This is the man who wants to get the DEMOCRATIC Party nomination for President?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
68. He stood with these 12 Democrats, not with Rand Paul:
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:18 PM
Oct 2015

Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)
Cory Booker (D-NJ)
Sherrod Brown (D-OH)
Chris Coons (D-DE)
Al Franken (D-MN)
Pat Leahy (D-VT)
Ed Markey (D-MA)
Bob Menendez (D-NJ)
Jeff Merkley (D-OR)
Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Tom Udall (D-NM)
Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)


Please try to keep your memes straight, you're embarrassing yourself.

Why aren't you concerned about our privacy rights?

George II

(67,782 posts)
71. All I know is that he voted with a Republican Presidential candidate and voted against....
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:20 PM
Oct 2015

....the Democratic majority.

That tells me a lot!

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
74. 12 Dems, and 1 republican = voting with the republican?
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:23 PM
Oct 2015

I bet you're a blast to play poker with.

George II

(67,782 posts)
77. So you're hinting that he did NOT vote with someone who could be his opponent next November.....
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:26 PM
Oct 2015

....in the Presidential election and against the majority of members of the party for whose Presidential nomination he's hoping to win?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
76. He voted to protect our privacy rights, and so did Elizabeth Warren.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:25 PM
Oct 2015

What does that tell you about her and the other Dems?

George II

(67,782 posts)
116. When Sanders entered the Democratic Presidential race one the rationales both he and his followers..
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 08:01 PM
Oct 2015

...was that he "always votes with the Democratic caucus".

That's not true. And to add insult to injury he voted with a potential Presidential opponent (Rand Paul) should they both win their partys' nominations.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
117. Really? Do you have a link to where we said he "always votes with the Democratic caucus"?
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 08:04 PM
Oct 2015
And to add insult to injury he voted with a potential Presidential opponent (Rand Paul) should they both win their partys' nominations.


Why do you think Elizabeth Warren voted against the bill?

Do you support CISA and if so, why?

George II

(67,782 posts)
119. I don't know why Warren voted against the amendment, all I know is that a Democratic...
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 08:15 PM
Oct 2015

....candidate for President sided with a republican candidate for President.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
120. You would rather have him vote against our interests just to oppose Rand Paul?
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 08:19 PM
Oct 2015

Well that makes perfect ... sense?


madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
98. Here are the other Dems who voted the same way
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 07:00 PM
Oct 2015

The 14 dissenting votes consisted of 1 Republican--Rand Paul (R-KY)--and then 13 members of the Democratic caucus.

Here are the 13:

Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)
Cory Booker (D-NJ)
Sherrod Brown (D-OH)
Chris Coons (D-DE)
Al Franken (D-MN)
Pat Leahy (D-VT)
Ed Markey (D-MA)
Bob Menendez (D-NJ)
Jeff Merkley (D-OR)
Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Tom Udall (D-NM)
Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/22/1437340/-Only-These-14-Senators-Stood-Up-to-Defend-Privacy-Rights-Today

RichVRichV

(885 posts)
171. And 50 Republicans voted for it. Which means he voted against 98% of the Republicans voting.
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 12:25 AM
Oct 2015

Would you have preferred he voted with Ted Cruz?

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
207. So the majority of the Democratic caucus voted with the GOP.
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 09:23 PM
Oct 2015

So because 72% voted with the GOP Sanders is the bad guy?
Your framing of this vote is bullshit. Total and utter bullshit.

George II

(67,782 posts)
211. No it isn't, you missed my point - Sanders and his followers like to throw out the concept....
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 09:45 PM
Oct 2015

....that he always votes with the Democratic caucus. That's false.

Apparently he would rather vote along with a republican Presidential candidate than his own (cough, cough) party.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
212. You never did say, George, why do you support the bill?
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 09:49 PM
Oct 2015

I'm proud of Bernie and the Dems who stood up for us, why aren't you?

BeanMusical

(4,389 posts)
131. "All I know is that he voted with a Republican yada yada"
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 09:00 PM
Oct 2015

Nice that you're admitting that it's all you know, George.

George II

(67,782 posts)
210. Not a just a "republican yada yada", but a republican who may be running against Hillary Clinton....
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 09:43 PM
Oct 2015

....next year.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
214. And a Democratic woman who will hopefully be Bernie's VP!
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 09:51 PM
Oct 2015

Go Elizabeth Warren!



Why are you so obsessed with Paul anyway? Seems like you should be proud of the Democrats who voted to protect our rights.

George II

(67,782 posts)
216. Who's obsessed with Paul? I just find it very disappointing that a person who is running....
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 10:01 PM
Oct 2015

....for the Democratic nomination for President siding with a man running for the republican nomination for President instead of the majority of Senators from the party whose nomination he's seeking.

PS - not to disappoint, but Senator Warren isn't interested.

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
218. You're disappointed that Senators Sanders and Warren are concerned with privacy rights?
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 10:05 PM
Oct 2015

Why are you more concerned with associating Bernie with Paul than acknowleging why he opposes CISA?

Who did Hillary side with when she voted for the Iraq war?

Wasn't his name George II as well?

And what party was he from again?

George II

(67,782 posts)
219. Huh?
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 10:18 PM
Oct 2015

"Who did Hillary side with when she voted for the Iraq war? Wasn't his name George II as well? And what party was he from again?"

What's your point?

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
220. If you fault Bernie because he "stood" with a Republican you have to fault Hillary for doing it too.
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 10:26 PM
Oct 2015

Otherwise you look like a hypocrite.

Or something.

BuelahWitch

(9,083 posts)
153. Don't you love it when they leave crucial information OUT
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 10:25 PM
Oct 2015

to try and argue their point? Don't really trust Di-Fi anyway...

beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
159. It's the only way to make the memes work.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 10:38 PM
Oct 2015

They keep throwing shit against the wall and finding new and creative ways to smear it around so it sticks.



Autumn

(45,055 posts)
46. So you are saying Bill and Hillary became DLCers to gain something for themselves?
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:45 PM
Oct 2015

You are most likely correct and it shows what an ethical politician Bernie Sanders is compared to...others. Thank you for pointing that out. I'm glad he held to his principals and he remained an Independent who voted with the Democrats on important issues and made a difference for the people.

Volaris

(10,270 posts)
72. ALL politicians are opportunists.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:21 PM
Oct 2015

The 'good' ones are opportunists in OUR favor, rather than their own.
I don't yet understand how seemingly a good %age of our party aren't processing the fact that a person can be a Progressive regarding Social Issues, AND a regressive, neo-liberal economic terrorist at the same time..The 2 aren't mutually exclusive. In my opinion, it is the position of the oligarchs that OF COURSE we can marry who we want and have legal weed, because those things don't interfere with their profit margin. Those things are bones that they throw us dogs to keep us distracted and happy so that we don't realize how badly were being robbed.

They can't keep it up forever; eventually, they will run out of Social-issue bones to throw. Besides, if I'm so fucked economically that I can't get ahead even IF I'm married and running my house on 2 incones instead of one, who I can or cannot get married to doesn't matter all that much.

Autumn

(45,055 posts)
75. George words do have meaning even if you don't want them to.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:25 PM
Oct 2015

A United States Senator is a politician George
https://www.google.com/search?q=politician+definition&oq=politician+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.6735j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
pol·i·ti·cian
ˌpäləˈtiSHən/Submit
noun
noun: politician; plural noun: politicians
a person who is professionally involved in politics, especially as a holder of or a candidate for an elected office.
synonyms: legislator, elected official, statesman, stateswoman, public servant; senator, congressman, congresswoman; informalpolitico, pol
"campaigning politicians make more promises than they can keep"
US
a person who acts in a manipulative and devious way, typically to gain advancement within an organization.

Let me bold what you said George
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251716682#post32
George II (9,730 posts)

32. If Sanders ever joined the Democratic Party...

...he could have been a member of the DLC and made a difference, but there was nothing in it for him.

Pity.



Now had Bernie as you said, joined the DLC to get something for himself as you claimed he could have done by becoming a democrat and a member of the DLC but chose not to because there was nothing in it for him then he would have been an opportunist

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=opportunist
opportunist
someone who immediately takes advantage of a situation to reap some personal benefits
 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
92. I'm actually still chuckling at "Third Way Progressives"
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:46 PM
Oct 2015

Talk about confused and made up... And there's a sizable contingent buying that.



 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
99. Oh me neither.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 07:02 PM
Oct 2015

I read it when it was still under 150 posts or so. Had my laugh and backed out.

I'll take a fact filled madflo thread for the win






beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
101. It's good for amusement but little else.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 07:05 PM
Oct 2015

I'm expecting Nazi comparisons next. "You know who else was a third way progressive?"



 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
105. Pretty soon it will be Bernie hates Obama!
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 07:11 PM
Oct 2015

Stolen from bunnies on this gem of a thread from earlier...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251716377#post13

At 400+ posts, that other thread is not going to end well...





beam me up scottie

(57,349 posts)
106. They've been using that talking point for months, it's part of the 'Bernie is a racist' meme.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 07:15 PM
Oct 2015

They are so desperate for anything to use against a progressive Senator who was loved on DU before he challenged Hillary.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
213. That pathetic attempt at a meme
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 09:50 PM
Oct 2015

was the single biggest crock I have ever seen posted here in ten years. Un-fucking-believable.

Autumn

(45,055 posts)
110. Funny isn't it. My favorite all time poster was the one complaining about rec circles
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 07:46 PM
Oct 2015

by a Bernie supporter and had himself been doing rec circles rofl:

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
5. Thanks mad. No matter which candidate one supports, your OPs are always 1st rate
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 04:25 PM
Oct 2015

You're one of the few posters still posting factually rich content.

K&R!



madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
8. Good post. Their attacks on the social safety nets is to me a dangerous thing.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 04:31 PM
Oct 2015

That's a stance that would hurt so many people.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
9. Yep. That's when the Democratic party started abandoning what was traditionally
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 04:36 PM
Oct 2015

Democratic values in favor of winning at all costs. That's when they switched loyalties away from unions and those on social safety nets such as WIC, food stamps, SS, and SSDI and towards the people that could buy elections for them such as Wall Street and other 1%ers. I will not be a part of that kind of Democratic Party.

DhhD

(4,695 posts)
95. The New Democrats were very apparent with a new 1998 law to privatize most of the U.S.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:48 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/1998/10/clinton-signs-privatization-bill/4725/

On Monday, President Clinton signed the Federal Activities Inventory Reform (FAIR) Act of 1998, which requires federal agencies to review their activities and define them as either inherently governmental or potentially subject to privatization. The bill had passed the Senate in August and the House earlier this month.
more at link


I do not want Social Security privatized or destroyed as well as many other saftey net programs by Third Way Democrats like Hillary Clinton.

Here is a relatively new privatization for Hillary helping the 1% to nationalized Oil Inductry of Mexico in 2012 while she was SoS in a Democratic Administration of a New Democrat.
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Wikileaks-Hilary-Clinton-Pushed-Mexicos-Oil-Privatization-20150810-0011.html

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
97. Ah, thanks for that link.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:52 PM
Oct 2015

I had totally forgotten that privatization bill.

http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/1998/10/clinton-signs-privatization-bill/4725/

"Because of the FAIR Act, small business will now know how pervasively the federal government is involved in performing commercial activities," said Matthew Page, director of legislative affairs for the Small Business Legislative Council, an umbrella group of 90 trade associations that had been one of the lead lobbying groups in favor of the act. "The next step is working to make sure those commercial activities are made available to the private sector."

The measure Clinton signed was a watered-down version of legislation sought since early 1997 by a coalition of business groups. Most, though not all, of the bill's initial critics-including some unions and eventually the Clinton Administration itself-agreed to the version signed by Clinton because it seemed to go only a little further than existing regulations.

The coalition supporting the bill ranged from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Corning Inc. and KPMG Peat Marwick Inc. to the Association of RV Parks and Campgrounds and the Helicopter Association International.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
44. Oh Goodie! To think that once again,
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:43 PM
Oct 2015

A new trade policy will be increasing the Middle Class's gravy train.

If it helps out as much as NAFTA did, I think the streets will soon be made out of gold!

<sarcasm>

Baitball Blogger

(46,699 posts)
16. Is there any lasting, positive testimony of Thirdwayer's contributions to society?
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 04:54 PM
Oct 2015

NAFTA fell short from its promises; the country almost went bankrupt because of the banking industry's creative financing; there was no lasting job creation; student debt is monumental and there are no great jobs for kids who get degrees; there's talk that Blair should be held accountable for war crimes, Hillary's emails suggest as much.

What are the lasting testimonies in U.S. History? Social Security and, hopefully, Obamacare.

I'm not an outright socialist, but I do recognize that our political system generates so much corruption that people need to have basic guarantees to ensure they don't get fleeced by some politician's higher ideals.

Baitball Blogger

(46,699 posts)
26. Obviously, there are people who don't realize that fact.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:13 PM
Oct 2015

Last edited Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:36 PM - Edit history (1)

Maybe that's the legacy of triangulation? They worked so closely with Republicans that their policies suffered the same fate.

I always felt that there was a missing piece, and I think I know now what it is. There is an entire society built on the basis of shadow government inducements and cronyism. It's what we don't see that they're after. Campaign money is buying the kind of decisions that the cronies need to make it from one job to the next. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.

 

artislife

(9,497 posts)
29. Are you saying that
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:18 PM
Oct 2015

If another dem had won the primary back in '92, they would never won the election?

Do you traverse parallel universes for this scientific fact?

HereSince1628

(36,063 posts)
36. I think the choice to speak in "years" rather than "terms" is very telling
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:32 PM
Oct 2015

It speaks to trying to emphasize a reality that is not within the grasp of electorate.

Hyperbole is a popular word this week and it is appropriate here, where it is used to suggest something greater than what was available for action

 

moabfan

(48 posts)
53. He only got in via a third party spoiler by the name
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:56 PM
Oct 2015

of Ross Perot. Such a key spoiler against the Republicans enough to let Bill Clinton win in a three-way dance.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
196. What I've learned on DU is that some people would rather support gadfly, losing candidates
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 01:51 PM
Oct 2015

than actually support Democrats who have a record of accomplishment.

In the American political system, all change is incremental - as it is designed that way. I have no illusions about that. Instead of whining about Democrats who compromise (oh the humanity! ) and who have a record of building winning coalitions ( the vast majority of voters would never support a socialist candidate, FWIW), they ought to do something productive politically.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
30. Excellent, thoughtful OP on the FACTS of this reprehensible Think Tank the represents the interests
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:18 PM
Oct 2015

of Wall St and could never, ever be mistaken for anything CLOSE to progressive.

Regressive is the word that comes to mind for these morons, and that is being kind.

Thanks MF for another great OP

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
31. "avoid economic populism at all costs"
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:21 PM
Oct 2015

To me that's the key. I think the Clintons genuinely thought that catering unreservedly to the financial industry, while advocating moderately kinder social policy, was the magic formula, both themselves politically, and for the country.

For a while, it even looked possible. The early .com bubble made millionaires out of office admins. Everyone could invest in the stock market and catch the rising tide.

But it was ill-conceived from the beginning. Speculative bubbles have always been fool's gold. Worse than that, when they pop, the realities dictate that those with the most to lose are damaged the worst. From Black Friday to the S & L scandal, financial institutions, left to "self-regulate" aren't the responsible conduits of everyone's money they purport to be.

They're gamblers. Because gambling is where the ludicrous, gold-plated-island-buying money comes from. Rich is boring. Mega rich is a much bigger rush.

And now we are just climbing out of the smoking crater of the most destructive bubble economy in most of our lifetimes, empowered in large part by the de-regulatory mantra Reagan set out, and which the Clintons bought into regarding Wall Street.

It is the worst possible vision to bring to these times. More than a failure, it actually "broke the world." We cannot afford to revisit it now.

shenmue

(38,506 posts)
38. One day
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:36 PM
Oct 2015

That's how long the reasonableness lasted. Now it's back to shadowy libertarian accusations, just like 20 years ago.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
143. Can't believe someone thinks I'm libertarian in any way.
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 09:41 PM
Oct 2015

I am a firm believer that we are to care for each other, for the "least among us."

Simply doesn't make sense around here sometimes.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
43. I had already decided - no vote from me for any DLC, DINO, New Democrat Coalition, any politician
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:40 PM
Oct 2015

who voted for Fast Track OR shilled for it. The Third Way advises the New Democrat Coalition. They are the ones who wrote that WSJ column informing us snottily that Elizabeth Warren is "getting out of hand".

Fuck them. And don't let anyone blow smoke up yer asses, telling you the DLC/Third Way bullshit is gone. It is alive and well and is killing the Democratic Party.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
47. The group's willingness to sacrifice Social Security and other social safety nets...
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 05:49 PM
Oct 2015

plus their willingness to privatize public education...these two things hit me so hard. I wonder how Democrats can support things like that.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
64. Thanks. I just wish that the supporters of the conservative democratic candidate would
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:12 PM
Oct 2015

own this, instead of continuing to insist she's a liberal.

mother earth

(6,002 posts)
65. K & R, explains a lot & makes perfect sense, it's all part of the oligarchy stranglehold
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:14 PM
Oct 2015

bringing this nation down & plundering and pillaging taxpayer coffers. DINO!!!

 

davemac

(28 posts)
86. Third Way? No way? Corporatists
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:33 PM
Oct 2015

This needs to be called for what it is ...Corporatism..whether Republican or Democrat.....those who support and work for the Oligarchs and their corporations are Corporatists. Period.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
89. Neolibs of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your principles!
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:38 PM
Oct 2015

Assuming that they have ever had any.

TBF

(32,047 posts)
93. I saw folks trying to re-write history on DU today -
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:48 PM
Oct 2015

folks trying to claim that "third way" is a dedication to civil rights. That is only partly correct. "Third way" has always been the folks that called themselves "fiscally conservative, socially liberal".

I was there in the 90s - I worked at the law firm in which the Clinton legal meetings were held (and funded for that matter). I saw all of this up close while it was happening. I was so disgusted by what I saw in Washington DC from both parties that I didn't get involved in politics again until I volunteered for Obama's campaign in 2008.

Writing of history is always by the winners, and usually by the males. I applaud you for trying to set the record straight. These people are frightening because they act like they are friends to labor, then stab us in the back.

ChiciB1

(15,435 posts)
100. Thanks MadFloridian... Long But Concise & Clear! All I Have
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 07:04 PM
Oct 2015

to do to keep me sticking with Bernie is to mention ONE name these days, there are SO MANY MORE for sure. BUT this one name is the one that rises above ALL others at the moment. DEBBIE WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ! As a Floridian I may have paid more attention to her long ago, but now it should be very clear to most that she's willing to do anything to make sure SHE gets the favors she must have been promised. Whatever they are. I know about her closeness with all the Rebukes down in South Florida, and other places too, she's not only DLC and Third Way I think she's worse. And she's so in the bag for Hillary that this alone makes her an unworthy DNC leader.

I give Hillary all the credit in the world for how she handled herself yesterday, but she was defending HERSELF against this onslaught of garbage by a bunch of idiotic, unscrupulous brats who got elected because most were hand picked and gerrymandered. Hillary's testimony should make it clear to the crazies out there that they elected a bunch of morons who have chewed through too many bones. A DOG would have given up long before this. At least my 2 chocolate labs would! If there was something to uncover they most certainly never got close to anything!

I can find no fault with how Hillary acquitted herself, but her policies are the same non-the-less. If not for Bernie in the race we would have NO choice but to fall on our sword again. She's NOT going to go against the Wall Streeters and Corporatists no matter what she's saying now. I knew Bill was more conservative than me, knew Obama was that way too, but I worked for them and voted for them hoping there would be more middle ground. Both have a record of some good successes, both have "personality plus" that sells well and were huge factors in their elections. How they governed was different and this country is going off the rails. They didn't create this mess, but did what they felt was expedient at the time.

Today I'm NOT a happy Democrat, but my support for Bernie is deep and real and know if he can win the nomination it's only a beginning. There's so much to fix and repair and the people of this country have to want to fight hard to turn things around. I can't support Hillary simply because I'm a woman, doesn't work that way for me. Another DLC/Third Way candidate is something I can't support. I KNOW what it is and it doesn't work for me.

In the end, because of the Supreme Court situation I may have to vote for her, but this time I can't waste energy to get out an work for her. Given what's on the other side and IF this country is willing to vote for what's on the other side, then whatever happens is what we deserve! And IT WILL BE BAD! Yep, doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different outcome are words that everyone should keep at the forefront of there minds.

We are HERE now, it fills me with fear and remorse, can we not try to repair at least some of the damage? I've been a political activist since I was around 16, I've been at it for around 50 years and I KNOW what it means to lose. This loss will hurt the most! My tank is "Running On Empty!" a song by my favorite Jackson Browne.

So ANOTHER long post, but one with my heart and soul included.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
104. More from Guardian 2005 Third Way Away Day
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 07:11 PM
Oct 2015
Third way away day

Subtitle:

Young European politicians at a retreat outside London seek inspiration from the neo-cons to revive the centre-left vision, writes Nicholas Watt

Labelling themselves "the progressive generation", these under-40s hope their document will show the centre left can reclaim the political stage with classic third way ideas on promoting a market economy while driving up standards in public services.

....Only Tony Blair and Gerhard Schröder are still in power and both are diminished figures compared with the late 1990s, when it appeared they would be stamping their vision across Europe and the industrialised world. Mr Mandelson today makes clear how far the third way elite has fallen when he speaks of "past mistakes" - by centre left governments across Europe - who fell from power after "ignoring voters' genuine anxieties over immigration, unemployment" and a host of other touchstone issues. Two former prime ministers who made such mistakes - Giuliano Amato in Italy and Poul Nyrup Rasmussen in Denmark - will be on hand this weekend to provide tips on where they went wrong.

Michiel van Hulten, a former Dutch MEP who, as co-chairman of the Young Progressive Network, is the driving force behind today's declaration, admits he has his work cut out now that a mere five of the EU's old 15 members have centre left governments. In the late 1990s, the figure stood at 13 out of 15.

"We want to take a leaf out of the book of the neo-cons in the United States," Mr Van Hulten says. "They have been incredibly successful over the past 10 to 15 years in building up a public policy agenda, which George Bush is now implementing. This has been missing from the centre left, where the thinking has been short term and disjointed."


DhhD

(4,695 posts)
184. Others in 2005 were against Hillary Clinton being in the Senate. Blair's emails were known then.
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 10:42 AM
Oct 2015
http://www.hollywoodinvestigator.com/pork/sheehan.htm

"It's about empire-building, plain and simple," said Clifton. "The US-led invasion and occupation of the sovereign nation of Iraq was and remains unconstitutional, is contrary to the non-aggression and non-interventionist position of Libertarians, and to the principles of just war."

He argues that evidence such as the forged Niger document and the Downing Street memos prove the Bush and Blair administrations knew the case for Saddam Hussein having weapons of mass destruction was non-existent, and not merely a mistake or "intelligence failure ' in the run up to the war.

Clifton adds: "An exit plan recently commissioned by National LP does not conform to the platform position authorized by the party membership, as it has the appearance of accepting the legitimacy of the intervention and current occupation. Many New York Libertarians instead support the party's and Founding Fathers' non-interventionist principles, as well as the will of the sovereign people of Iraq, most of whom desire the military presence there to end without a timetable."
more at link


Clinton knew that a vote for war with Iraq, is another step in privatization/corporatization of the World. Goal of The Third Way is to Merchandise the World setting up a vast chasm between the many that have little/nothing and the few that have it all. A foundation goes in to clean up and help after a catastrophe. No war, no catastrophe.

bigtree

(85,986 posts)
133. 'Bill' Clinton
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 09:06 PM
Oct 2015

...his record and positions aren't necessarily interchangeable with his wife's.

I understand the effort to conflate the two. It's dumbed-down, innuendo politics which intends to blur the actual positions and record of the pols being criticized and lump them in with the worst of this think-tank's agenda. Nothing substitutes for debating the actual issues and positions of these individuals though.

 

riderinthestorm

(23,272 posts)
140. Except of course HRC actually was a DLC member
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 09:34 PM
Oct 2015

which morphed into the Third Way.

She's surrounded herself with DLC advisors. We're not dumb



bigtree

(85,986 posts)
144. that tells me very little about her positions and record
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 09:43 PM
Oct 2015

,,,but I think that's the design of the shorthand used.

bigtree

(85,986 posts)
181. I don't need google
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 08:42 AM
Oct 2015

...my remark is directed at those who use this type of shorthand to define politicians. It's misleading, at best, sophistry at worst.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
198. No, it's misleading to try to separate Hillary from the DLC.
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 02:10 PM
Oct 2015

Third-way / DLC **IS** Hilary Clinton's brand of politics. Absolutely, 100%. This is the real, substantive, actual problem Democrats have with Hillary Clinton. Nothing is being implied or insinuated.

This is what Hillary Clinton's political philosophy actually IS.

She stands behind the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Her idea of reform is telling Wall Street to "cut it out." She has distinguished herself 0% from these policies, which she actively supported.

If people want to see her as President, they need to explain why these policies are correct, not pretend they are not hers.



Dem2

(8,168 posts)
168. I agree
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 11:12 PM
Oct 2015

I'm not fond of taking a premise and forcing the result that one prefers in order to support a particular candidate of choice. It doesn't really fit as 3rd way is a dead end that is literally only discussed on DU, to the best of my knowledge.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
191. I see this discussion as about The DLC and/or The Third Way's influence on the Democratic
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 12:42 PM
Oct 2015

Primary. Do you have anything to add. I get tired of only hearing the progressive side.

bigtree

(85,986 posts)
225. more progressive than thou politics?
Sun Oct 25, 2015, 12:38 AM
Oct 2015

label Clinton, label me...

Why should anyone need to justify their politics against your own bias?

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
166. Nice research
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 11:08 PM
Oct 2015

I don't agree with your conflating the history with Bernie or any brand of thinking in today's Democratic party as the "third way" is a bunch of dead enders (IMO) that have little (exactly "0" IMO) bearing on this election cycle.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
167. Also linked to Social Democracy via Anthony Giddens it seems:
Fri Oct 23, 2015, 11:12 PM
Oct 2015
Giddens, Anthony. The Third Way: The Renewal of Social Democracy. Cambridge: Polity, 2009.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Way-Renewal-Democracy/dp/0745622674


But all in all it's a pretty broad term, going back to the early 20th-century, in various contexts, so I wouldn't over-freight it.

Locrian

(4,522 posts)
193. great post
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 01:37 PM
Oct 2015

If HRC wins - it's going to go down like this:

1) pretend to be progressive, populist - maybe even "attack" wallstreet but be careful to never really specify what policy and actions would be implemented

2) win people over with "strength". The recent hearings were perfect: NOTHING to do with policy or what / who she would support - just an opportunity to "look presidential" and "strong".

3) go negative if needed - use some of that $$$$$$$$$

4) after election immediately "look forward not behind" and "reach out to bipartisanship" in order to"get things done". This is where the GOP does their part and creates non-stop investigations and scandals to look into in order to keep everyone tracking to the right

5) implement free trade policy, wallstreet "regulations" (wink wink), etc as seen fit ie "the real agenda" for the "real supporters" it "people with money just like me"

6) lather / rinse /repeat

Utopian Leftist

(534 posts)
203. What works for CONS (I.E. whatever they can get away with)
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 04:12 PM
Oct 2015

does not always work for those of us on the sane side of the aisle.

It is not unlike what the conservatives accomplished in the Republican Party during the 1960s and 1970s.

That's because they were wrong to begin with. On every issue. So CONS, having nothing to fear but the truth, pulled a CON on themselves and their own party, and shifted ever more belligerently to the right. The Clintons apparently believed they could do the same thing to the Democratic Party: pull a con-job, presenting themselves as liberals when in fact they are far from it.

I think we're all about to find out just how wrong they were to underestimate the passion those of us who are truly on the left, feel for our beliefs. Americans want their left, left and their right, right. Watering down of either position is not the same thing as compromise. Compromise only works to an extent: when one reaches the extent of compromising his/her principles, it's over. Compromised principles lead to watered-down ideas that are never effective. It's become blatantly obvious this week that Tony Blair had no principles, to begin with. He helped Shrub and Powell plan the Iraq War a year before it was sold to Murkastan.

Can the same be said for either Clinton? Only time will tell. But if they truly believe the way forward is to water down RepubliCON economic proposals, then why do they not stand up and admit this truth? Why pretend to be liberals, besides a raw desire to win elections? We must end this silliness now. Politics is not a sport. It's nobody's TURN to be President! There are lives at stake, potentially millions here in this once-in-a-lifetime election.
 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
209. The essence of Third Way
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 09:37 PM
Oct 2015

is a fusion of Reagan/Thatcher economics with moderate positions on "social issues." And even those "moderate" positions are given quite grudgingly or when poll results suggest that they are necessary.

But the core is Reagan/Thatcher economics and it always will be..

antigop

(12,778 posts)
223. How the Democratic Party Lost its Soul
Sat Oct 24, 2015, 11:43 PM
Oct 2015
http://www.thenation.com/article/how-democratic-party-lost-its-soul/

Long ago, the party abandoned its working-class base (of all colors) and steadily distanced itself from the unglamorous conditions that matter most in people’s lives. Traditional party bulwarks like organized labor and racial minorities became second-string players in the hierarchy that influences party policy. But the Dems didn’t just lose touch with the people they claimed to speak for; they betrayed core constituencies and adopted pro-business, pro-finance policies that actively injure working people.

The shift away from the people was embraced most dramatically when Bill Clinton’s New Democrats came to power in the 1990s. Clinton double-crossed labor with NAFTA and subsequent trade agreements, which encouraged the great migration of manufacturing jobs to low-wage economies. Clinton’s bank deregulation shifted the economic rewards to finance and set the stage for the calamity that struck in 2008. Wall Street won; working people lost. Clinton presided over the financialization of the Democratic Party. Obama merely inherited his playbook and has governed accordingly, often with the same policy-makers.

“The people,” of course, are still present in the party, but they’re treated mainly as data for election strategies. The voters themselves resemble the supernumeraries in a grand opera: they appear on stage at election time, always lavishly praised by the pols. But they are given no lines to speak or songs to sing.

BlueStateLib

(937 posts)
226. After NAFTA 13 million new jobs were created, industrial grew 3x fasrer then the 2 previous decades
Sun Oct 25, 2015, 01:13 AM
Oct 2015

If you don't know about and understand the history of the Bracero Program and the history of Maquiladora's Program, then there is no way you could ever understand NAFTA or understand that NAFTA actually slowed the job loses to Mexico.
http://dallasfed.org/assets/documents/research/claepapers/2001/lawp0103.pdf

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
229. Now they say goal should be to have businesses hire all around the world.
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:28 AM
Oct 2015
“We need a new direction that creates jobs, growth, and wealth in an economy where businesses can locate, hire, and expand anywhere in the world,” Markell said in a statement. “This report offers more than a critique of populism; it offers an ambitious and politically effective economic alternative for the Democratic Party to pursue in the 21st century.”


They say we are just not ready for globalization.

The report rejects progressives’ theory that the primary culprit is a system that favors the wealthy. Instead, it blames changes related to globalization and technology and the country’s lack of preparedness for a new economy.


Maybe we should be more concerned about OUR economy as it relates to the needs of our people.

http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2015/10/28/markell-centrist-democrats-warn-economic-populism/74764242/

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
230. Democrats were tired of losing the Presidency
Thu Oct 29, 2015, 03:29 AM
Oct 2015

Unfortunately the steps we took to fix that hurt us in Congress.

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