2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumLet's talk Third Way. Some links about its founding and the founders.
One link I found at The Guardian in 2003 recounts the founding and purpose from the point of view of Tony Blair.
A brief history of the third way
What was the third way all about?
The so-called third way is New Labour's attempt to build itself an ideological foundation. In the face of accusations that the decision to re-christen the party and re-write clause IV was motivated purely by electoralism, Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson sought to prove their ideological convictions.
.....Wasn't Bill Clinton involved?
Bill Clinton's electoral success after renaming his party the New Democrats was an inspiration to Mr Blair and his fellow Labour modernisers. Both shared the belief that a new ideological compass was needed.
In September 1998, Mr Clinton and Mr Blair held a conference in New York to officially launch their new ideology. Both said they rejected the neo-liberal belief that everything can be left to the market, but also saw the traditional left-of-centre faith in state intervention in the economy as outdated.
.....What's the state of play now?
Three years on, however, the outlook for the third way looks bleak. A Republican is in the White House and Mr Schröder has turned away from his earlier fascination with the Clinton-Blair outlook towards a more traditional leftwing stance.
TIME carried an article about this in 1998. They called it the Third Way Wonkfest. The link is still there, but it's behind a firewall. I saved a few paragraphs.
Tony Blair, the New Dems and the Third Way Wonkfest 1998.
After Bill Clinton and Tony Blair finish with the elegant dinners and toasts at the G-8 summit this week in England, the real fun begins: the two leaders will lock themselves in a room with a clutch of top officials to talk about government policy for four or five hours. The Sunday meeting at Chequers, the Prime Minister's country mansion north of London, will be the third such bilateral seminar, following one at the White House, when Blair visited in February, and the inaugural 12-hr. "wonkathon" at Chequers in November, when Hillary Clinton sat in for her husband.
The lofty chatfests symbolize the intimate political relationship between Clinton, a "new Democrat," and Blair, creator of new Labour. Each claims to embody a type of politics that is not just a poll-driven centrism but a "third way," a favorite Blair slogan and a phrase that Clinton highlighted in this year's State of the Union message. "Both governments have to react to challenges like globalization and better education for workers, and we have similar perspectives on what's needed," says White House aide Sidney Blumenthal, who organizes the meetings with his British counterpart, David Miliband, Blair's policy chief.
On the agenda for Chequers are social security, welfare, crime, health policy and education, with eight to 10 participants from each side.
The DLC, a very strong think tank at the time, were very pleased that Tony Blair was in support of the Iraq War. In fact they even named the Democrats who voted for the war the "Blair Democrats."
From the WP
The Blair Democrats: Ready for Battle
Will Marshall May 1, 2003
The U.S.-led coalition's stunning success in liberating Iraq is undoubtedly a triumph for President Bush. But Karl Rove shouldn't get too giddy, because it may be a boon for some Democrats, too.
After all, four of the leading Democratic presidential contenders -- Rep. Dick Gephardt and Sens. Joseph Lieberman, John Kerry and John Edwards -- not only voted to support the war but also joined British Prime Minister Tony Blair in demanding that Bush challenge the United Nations to live up to its responsibilities to disarm Iraq. This position put these "Blair Democrats" in sync with the vast majority of Americans who said they would much rather attack Saddam Hussein's regime with United Nations backing than without it. And it puts them at odds with what Kerry called the "blustery unilateralism" of the president, which combined with French obstructionism to rupture not only the United Nations but the Atlantic alliance as well.
Like Bush, these Democrats did not shrink from the use of force to end Hussein's reign of terror. Like Blair, they saw the Iraq crisis as a test of Western resolve and the United Nations' credibility as an effective instrument of collective security.
And from Lee Fang at The Nation in 2013:
GOP Donors and K Street Fuel Third Ways Advice for the Democratic Party
Third Way, a centrist think tank that portrays itself as a Democratic group, has some advice for the party: avoid economic populism at all costs. In a column for The Wall Street Journal today, the group argues that the party should steer clear of creating a strong safety net, and criticizes Mayor-elect Bill de Blasios call for universal pre-K funded through an upper-income tax increase as a foolhardy idea for national Democrats.
......Buried inside the annual report for Third Way is a revelation that the group relies on a peculiar DC consulting firm to raise half a million a year: Peck, Madigan, Jones & Stewart. Peck Madigan is no ordinary nonprofit buckraiser. The group is, in fact, a corporate lobbying firm that represents Deutsche Bank, Intel, the Business Roundtable, Amgen, AT&T, the International Swaps & Derivatives Association, MasterCard, New York Life Insurance, PhRMA and the US Chamber of Commerce, among others.
The two organizations complement each other well. Peck Madigan signs as a lobbyist for the government of New Zealand on the Trans-Pacific Partnership free trade deal; Third Way aggressively promotes the deal. Peck Madigan clients push for entitlement cuts, and so does Third Way.
Notice that Humana, a major health insurance company, lists its $50,000 donation to Third Way not as a donation to a think tank but as part of its yearly budget spent on lobbying activity, up there with the Florida Chamber and other trade associations. The company views financial gifts to Third Way as part of its strategy for increasing its profit-making political influence.
Whats more, Third Ways leadership has tenuous connections to the Democratic Party it hopes to shape. Daniel Loeb, a hedge fund manager listed as a trustee on Third Ways 2012 annual disclosure, bundled $556,031 for Mitt Romney last year. Third Way board member Derek Kaufman, another hedge fund executive, also gave to Romney.
They call themselves "progressives", but they are not at all.
They represent everything that Bernie Sanders is opposing right now.
Bill Clinton was there at the founding of the DLC as well. The founder, Al From, made it clear they wanted to have a "bloodless revolution" in our Democratic Party.
The DLC group is sometimes portrayed as a pro-Wall Street set of lobbyists. And From did recruit hedge fund legends like Michael Steinhardt to fund his movement. But to argue these people were corrupt or motivated by a pay to play form of politics is wrong. From is clearly a reformer and an ideologue, and his colleagues believed they were serving the public interest. Make no mistake about it, wrote From in a memo about his organizations strategy, what we hope to accomplish with the DLC is a bloodless revolution in our party." It is not unlike what the conservatives accomplished in the Republican Party during the 1960s and 1970s.
Al From's words to Bill Clinton about NAFTA show whose interests the DLC and its new form, the Third Way, had in mind.
'Politically, a victory on NAFTA would assert your leadership over your own party by making it clear that you, not the Democratic leadership in Congress or the interest groups, set the Democratic Partys agenda on matters of real national importance.
They may claim to be "progressives", but in thought and deed the two groups are/were "conservative."
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I now support Hillary and oppose Sanders more than I did before you posted this.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)History proves again and again Socialism is doomed to failure.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Proves that an economic system based on continuing growth and consumption is devouring the planet. So what's your plan?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)Purveyor
(29,876 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Meanwhile down on Earth:
Interesting.
cprise
(8,445 posts)cprise
(8,445 posts)or to reinstate Glass-Steagal. She's an oligarch, or crony capitalist who likes to generate good PR for herself with humanitarian causes. Its like getting a $20 OFF coupon from a mugging.
Sometimes you need some good socialists to get capitalism working again...
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)A mugging.
That one comment says it all. (And most of the policies of Barack Obama are the same.)
mother earth
(6,002 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)That Guy 888
(1,214 posts)All socialism is communism hmm, what's next? Are they actually the same thing as the nazi party?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It's only a matter of time before that right wing talking point is posted on DU.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)THIS is the dystopian nightmare that awaits!!1
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)This is what that poster sounds like:
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....and red baiting, which involves communism not socialism.
BIG difference.
McKim
(2,412 posts)As a Canuk, you did not live through the McCarthy Era and the hysteria of the Red Scare. There was hysteria, people went to jail and some were executed, many lost jobs and livelihoods. Anyone who was red or pink was very threatened. This still lurks in the collective memory of the body politic of the USA. It is still powerful. It makes no sense, but there it is.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)... is woefully inadequate and depressing at the same time.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)eridani
(51,907 posts)raindaddy
(1,370 posts)was a figment of our imaginations...
If a third way Wall Street controlled Democratic party continues, the mass exodus of progressives from the party will continue as well.
And it starts the day Hillary starts appointing industry hacks to her administration.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Capitalism without socialist policies is also doomed to failure as proven throughout history.
Society itself is a Socialist concept since they derive from the same words. Keep in mind that is the society the determines what rules and economic systems they are willing to abide. I seriously doubt society is going to agree that you should get more and more wealth while others starve and die from lack of healthcare, shelter and food.
Bernie's political revolution is a way to avoid a societal revolution. I think you should heed his call because actual revolutions are not pretty and you could lose everything.
Autumn
(45,055 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Chris: "Hey Joe, how ya doing?"
Joe: "Hi Chris, just fine. Hey, what are you reading there?"
Chris: "Oh, it's just a new study out on the danger of cigarettes. Says the tobacco companies knew all along that cigs were addictive and that they contained carcinogens. They all lied to congress about it."
Joe: "Oh yeah? Well, now I'm going out to buy another pack of cigarettes...thanks for giving me a reason! Stupid scientists. They don't know anything. And you shouldn't be pushing crap like that, Chris. It's a free country and I can smoke if I want and I can quit any time I want. Addictive my ass!"
Chris: "Hell Joe, you asked what I was reading. I never pushed anything on you".
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)don't really worry about the 50 million Americans living in poverty. The Third Way doesn't care about Black Lives, in fact they support for-profit prisons. Those 16 million American children living in poverty mean nothing to Goldman-Sachs and their puppet politicians. Yes you've made your stand very clear here. In this class war, you choose the side of the biggest bullies, the 1%.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Your posts are proof that my theory is correct.
However, even some of the most wealthy have come to realize that fixing the wealth inequalities are actually in their best interest. Why? Because the public will not tolerate what is occurring today for long. Society DEMANDS some socialist programs, regulations and intervention.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)I see nothing about the primaries here.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)so was Obama for that matter.
History is good.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Hillary was not in office
Maybe add something factual with a citation about Hillary and the primaries
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Ooooh-Kay....
Phlem
(6,323 posts)Remember polls?
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Right off the bat, you are made to stop and think about whether your discussion topic reflects on the Primaries or not.
So I would say that there was no other place that Madfloridian could put this.
Autumn
(45,055 posts)TBF
(32,047 posts)one day Hillary is the most experienced candidate in the history of the world because she was first lady, the next day she can't be associated with Bill at all because she was only first lady
You can't have it both ways.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)http://www.politico.com/story/2009/03/obama-i-am-a-new-democrat-019862
But ok, I'm not interested in parsing this to death even as Obama has demonstrably proven he's fully in line with DLC positions.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)You say: "I'm not interested in parsing this to death even as Obama has demonstrably proven he's fully in line with DLC positions."
With which I very much agree.
And then there is the ol' canard: Actions speak larger than words.
Obama's actions in handing the nation over to the Big Bankers fall totally in line with the DLC.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)A distinction without a difference.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)That crap accusation was debunked back in 2004 when he ran for the US Senate and it takes massive parsing to try and dredge the nonsense up now.
You obviously failed to read the link I provided from 2004.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Fairgo
(1,571 posts)There is no history. What you do does not matter. The only reality is the team mascot. Go Badgers!
There is an irony deficiency in this one...
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Those of us with ears and eyes can see it plain as day. I could give a shit if he's adopted the label or not. His actions are clear.
Hillary is also DLC and Third Way. Since you support her, it's not "extremist" to point out the policy resemblances between her and Obama. And how they differ v Sanders.
But please continue to play obtuse. It says way more about you than me. I remain amused.
Please have the last word!! I'm counting on it!
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The best part about radical leftist extremists is there are so few of them they have little to no impact on Democratic policy making.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Who turned the channel to Fox News?
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Yes, radical leftist extremists.
Just as bad for the Democratic Party as radical rightist extremists have been for the Republican party.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The best thing is the radical extremists think they are driving the Democratic Party when in reality the vast majority of the party is laughing at them.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)"radical extremists"
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Conservative Democrat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_DemocratWikipedia
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Just like Liberal Republicans:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factions_in_the_Republican_Party_(United_States)#Liberal_Republicans
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)All you do is demonstrate your leftist extremism doing so.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)There you go making up new definitions again.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)*adding 121 rofl smileys*
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)Can you provide a definition or some examples?
Thanks in advance.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)... prohibition of child labor exploitation, safe working conditions, 5-day workweek, fair wages, etc.
Damn leftist extremists made my life better. I'll have none of that!
sulphurdunn
(6,891 posts)radical leftist extremists (democrats) in the Democratic Party, without whom the entire republican light enterprise would collapse. That day will come when enough of these 'dirty fucking hippies' decide that the lesser of two evils canard is no longer an option. When that day arrives, the country will actually have a two party system again, and everyone will know whose side they're on.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)Off to the gulag!
George II
(67,782 posts)....he demanded that his name be deleted.
http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html
Barack Obama will not be carrying the Democratic Leadership Councils baggage in his race to become the second Black person to represent Illinois in the U.S. Senate. The state senator and professor of constitutional law has told The Black Commentator that he is acting to have his name stricken from the New Democrats Directory, a list of several hundred DLC-affiliated elected officials.
I am not currently, nor have I ever been, a member of the DLC, said Obama, in a statement that substantially reflects a telephone conversation with Associate Editor Bruce Dixon, this weekend. It does appear that, without my knowledge, the DLC
listed me in their New Democrat directory, Obama continued. Because I agree that such a directory implies membership, I will be calling the DLC to have my name removed, and appreciate your having brought this fact to my attention.
TBF
(32,047 posts)despite the fact that he's pretty conservative I campaigned for him as well. He was the charismatic candidate we needed at the time to gently push Bush out of the White House and start trying to repair the country. I literally sighed a breath of relief when the Bushes got in their helicopter and left the city. None of us knew what Cheney was capable of.
I didn't like some of his appointments (Duncan, Emmanuel spring to mind first), and I've posted some criticisms in the socialist group from time to time of specific policy. But when all is said and done I think he will be remembered well - especially for ACA and his humor. He has been a breath of fresh air in many ways.
My feeling now is that we can step it up and put a real reformer in the office to tackle income inequality and climate change. I see that in Bernie, you may feel Hillary has a more realistic chance. That's fine.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)This is one of them.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)I wouldn't put something like that past many of those who do nothing but condemn Obama and Hillary.
Next thing you know, there will be the body count lists showing up here, or Vince Foster CT BS.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)Thanks Bud!
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)All you have are falsehoods and innuendoes while the old DLC when it existed erroneously listed him as a member which he vehemently denied and the DLC agreed, he was never a member:
http://www.blackcommentator.com/48/48_cover.html
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Look up Simon Rosenberg, NDN
Meanwhile I can do some research for you.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Your assertion has been proved false by the link in my prior post.
Thanks for playing.
Fantastic Anarchist
(7,309 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)That's the bottom line. They represent the 1%. If that's what you want, then your support of HRC is understandable. Sen Sanders clearly represents the People.
George II
(67,782 posts)Barack Obama will not be carrying the Democratic Leadership Councils baggage in his race to become the second Black person to represent Illinois in the U.S. Senate. The state senator and professor of constitutional law has told The Black Commentator that he is acting to have his name stricken from the New Democrats Directory, a list of several hundred DLC-affiliated elected officials.
I am not currently, nor have I ever been, a member of the DLC, said Obama, in a statement that substantially reflects a telephone conversation with Associate Editor Bruce Dixon, this weekend. It does appear that, without my knowledge, the DLC listed me in their New Democrat directory, Obama continued. Because I agree that such a directory implies membership, I will be calling the DLC to have my name removed, and appreciate your having brought this fact to my attention.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)No relation or admiration at all to right wing politics. Yep, I don't see it either.
George II
(67,782 posts)...he could have been a member of the DLC and made a difference, but there was nothing in it for him.
Pity.
neverforget
(9,436 posts)Democratic leaders, bills and Presidential appointments in the House and Senate.
Oh yeah, he did that all without the "D" behind his name.
George II
(67,782 posts)...against the Democrats?
The amendment sponsored by Dianne Feinstein was passed 83-14, he was one of the 14.
This is the man who wants to get the DEMOCRATIC Party nomination for President?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Are they traitors too or is Bernie just too far to the left for you, George?
Only These 14 Senators Stood Up to Defend Privacy Rights Today.
http://democraticunderground.com/1251713636
George II
(67,782 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)
Cory Booker (D-NJ)
Sherrod Brown (D-OH)
Chris Coons (D-DE)
Al Franken (D-MN)
Pat Leahy (D-VT)
Ed Markey (D-MA)
Bob Menendez (D-NJ)
Jeff Merkley (D-OR)
Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Tom Udall (D-NM)
Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)
Please try to keep your memes straight, you're embarrassing yourself.
Why aren't you concerned about our privacy rights?
George II
(67,782 posts)....the Democratic majority.
That tells me a lot!
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I bet you're a blast to play poker with.
George II
(67,782 posts)....in the Presidential election and against the majority of members of the party for whose Presidential nomination he's hoping to win?
arcane1
(38,613 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)What does that tell you about her and the other Dems?
George II
(67,782 posts)...was that he "always votes with the Democratic caucus".
That's not true. And to add insult to injury he voted with a potential Presidential opponent (Rand Paul) should they both win their partys' nominations.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why do you think Elizabeth Warren voted against the bill?
Do you support CISA and if so, why?
George II
(67,782 posts)....candidate for President sided with a republican candidate for President.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Well that makes perfect ... sense?
George II
(67,782 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)The 14 dissenting votes consisted of 1 Republican--Rand Paul (R-KY)--and then 13 members of the Democratic caucus.
Here are the 13:
Tammy Baldwin (D-WI)
Cory Booker (D-NJ)
Sherrod Brown (D-OH)
Chris Coons (D-DE)
Al Franken (D-MN)
Pat Leahy (D-VT)
Ed Markey (D-MA)
Bob Menendez (D-NJ)
Jeff Merkley (D-OR)
Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
Tom Udall (D-NM)
Elizabeth Warren (D-MA)
Ron Wyden (D-OR)
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/10/22/1437340/-Only-These-14-Senators-Stood-Up-to-Defend-Privacy-Rights-Today
George II
(67,782 posts)Spirochete
(5,264 posts)supporting for president, are pretty much all on that list.
RichVRichV
(885 posts)Would you have preferred he voted with Ted Cruz?
blackspade
(10,056 posts)So because 72% voted with the GOP Sanders is the bad guy?
Your framing of this vote is bullshit. Total and utter bullshit.
George II
(67,782 posts)....that he always votes with the Democratic caucus. That's false.
Apparently he would rather vote along with a republican Presidential candidate than his own (cough, cough) party.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'm proud of Bernie and the Dems who stood up for us, why aren't you?
blackspade
(10,056 posts)It's a canard anyway.
Your framing is still bullshit.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Nice that you're admitting that it's all you know, George.
George II
(67,782 posts)....next year.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Go Elizabeth Warren!
Why are you so obsessed with Paul anyway? Seems like you should be proud of the Democrats who voted to protect our rights.
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Reminds me of another George...
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)....for the Democratic nomination for President siding with a man running for the republican nomination for President instead of the majority of Senators from the party whose nomination he's seeking.
PS - not to disappoint, but Senator Warren isn't interested.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Why are you more concerned with associating Bernie with Paul than acknowleging why he opposes CISA?
Who did Hillary side with when she voted for the Iraq war?
Wasn't his name George II as well?
And what party was he from again?
George II
(67,782 posts)"Who did Hillary side with when she voted for the Iraq war? Wasn't his name George II as well? And what party was he from again?"
What's your point?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Otherwise you look like a hypocrite.
Or something.
BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)to try and argue their point? Don't really trust Di-Fi anyway...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)They keep throwing shit against the wall and finding new and creative ways to smear it around so it sticks.
TheKentuckian
(25,023 posts)Autumn
(45,055 posts)You are most likely correct and it shows what an ethical politician Bernie Sanders is compared to...others. Thank you for pointing that out. I'm glad he held to his principals and he remained an Independent who voted with the Democrats on important issues and made a difference for the people.
George II
(67,782 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Volaris
(10,270 posts)The 'good' ones are opportunists in OUR favor, rather than their own.
I don't yet understand how seemingly a good %age of our party aren't processing the fact that a person can be a Progressive regarding Social Issues, AND a regressive, neo-liberal economic terrorist at the same time..The 2 aren't mutually exclusive. In my opinion, it is the position of the oligarchs that OF COURSE we can marry who we want and have legal weed, because those things don't interfere with their profit margin. Those things are bones that they throw us dogs to keep us distracted and happy so that we don't realize how badly were being robbed.
They can't keep it up forever; eventually, they will run out of Social-issue bones to throw. Besides, if I'm so fucked economically that I can't get ahead even IF I'm married and running my house on 2 incones instead of one, who I can or cannot get married to doesn't matter all that much.
Autumn
(45,055 posts)A United States Senator is a politician George
https://www.google.com/search?q=politician+definition&oq=politician+&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l5.6735j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8
pol·i·ti·cian
ˌpäləˈtiSHən/Submit
noun
noun: politician; plural noun: politicians
a person who is professionally involved in politics, especially as a holder of or a candidate for an elected office.
synonyms: legislator, elected official, statesman, stateswoman, public servant; senator, congressman, congresswoman; informalpolitico, pol
"campaigning politicians make more promises than they can keep"
US
a person who acts in a manipulative and devious way, typically to gain advancement within an organization.
Let me bold what you said George
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251716682#post32
George II (9,730 posts)
...he could have been a member of the DLC and made a difference, but there was nothing in it for him.
Pity.
Now had Bernie as you said, joined the DLC to get something for himself as you claimed he could have done by becoming a democrat and a member of the DLC but chose not to because there was nothing in it for him then he would have been an opportunist
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=opportunist
opportunist
someone who immediately takes advantage of a situation to reap some personal benefits
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)According to them Bernie is Israel's #1 shill, a racist, gun nut, scheming little sneak, tool for the NRA, Republican man with his head between women's legs, who protects the minutemen militia, pedophiles, racist cops, has rape fantasies and thinks that orgasms prevent cancer.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Talk about confused and made up... And there's a sizable contingent buying that.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)I read it when it was still under 150 posts or so. Had my laugh and backed out.
I'll take a fact filled madflo thread for the win
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'm expecting Nazi comparisons next. "You know who else was a third way progressive?"
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)Stolen from bunnies on this gem of a thread from earlier...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251716377#post13
At 400+ posts, that other thread is not going to end well...
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)They are so desperate for anything to use against a progressive Senator who was loved on DU before he challenged Hillary.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)was the single biggest crock I have ever seen posted here in ten years. Un-fucking-believable.
Autumn
(45,055 posts)by a Bernie supporter and had himself been doing rec circles rofl:
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Yeah, that never gets old! And they call us conspiracy theorists?
Autumn
(45,055 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Still cracks me up!
Utopian Leftist
(534 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)You're one of the few posters still posting factually rich content.
K&R!
portlander23
(2,078 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)That's a stance that would hurt so many people.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Democratic values in favor of winning at all costs. That's when they switched loyalties away from unions and those on social safety nets such as WIC, food stamps, SS, and SSDI and towards the people that could buy elections for them such as Wall Street and other 1%ers. I will not be a part of that kind of Democratic Party.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)DhhD
(4,695 posts)On Monday, President Clinton signed the Federal Activities Inventory Reform (FAIR) Act of 1998, which requires federal agencies to review their activities and define them as either inherently governmental or potentially subject to privatization. The bill had passed the Senate in August and the House earlier this month.
more at link
I do not want Social Security privatized or destroyed as well as many other saftey net programs by Third Way Democrats like Hillary Clinton.
Here is a relatively new privatization for Hillary helping the 1% to nationalized Oil Inductry of Mexico in 2012 while she was SoS in a Democratic Administration of a New Democrat.
http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Wikileaks-Hilary-Clinton-Pushed-Mexicos-Oil-Privatization-20150810-0011.html
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I had totally forgotten that privatization bill.
http://www.govexec.com/federal-news/1998/10/clinton-signs-privatization-bill/4725/
"Because of the FAIR Act, small business will now know how pervasively the federal government is involved in performing commercial activities," said Matthew Page, director of legislative affairs for the Small Business Legislative Council, an umbrella group of 90 trade associations that had been one of the lead lobbying groups in favor of the act. "The next step is working to make sure those commercial activities are made available to the private sector."
The measure Clinton signed was a watered-down version of legislation sought since early 1997 by a coalition of business groups. Most, though not all, of the bill's initial critics-including some unions and eventually the Clinton Administration itself-agreed to the version signed by Clinton because it seemed to go only a little further than existing regulations.
The coalition supporting the bill ranged from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Corning Inc. and KPMG Peat Marwick Inc. to the Association of RV Parks and Campgrounds and the Helicopter Association International.
YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)from their side of the fence.
http://www.thirdway.org/e-binder/your-one-stop-shop-on-the-trans-pacific-partnership
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)A new trade policy will be increasing the Middle Class's gravy train.
If it helps out as much as NAFTA did, I think the streets will soon be made out of gold!
<sarcasm>
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Done deal.
CharlotteVale
(2,717 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,699 posts)NAFTA fell short from its promises; the country almost went bankrupt because of the banking industry's creative financing; there was no lasting job creation; student debt is monumental and there are no great jobs for kids who get degrees; there's talk that Blair should be held accountable for war crimes, Hillary's emails suggest as much.
What are the lasting testimonies in U.S. History? Social Security and, hopefully, Obamacare.
I'm not an outright socialist, but I do recognize that our political system generates so much corruption that people need to have basic guarantees to ensure they don't get fleeced by some politician's higher ideals.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)It is time for something different.
Baitball Blogger
(46,699 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 23, 2015, 06:36 PM - Edit history (1)
Maybe that's the legacy of triangulation? They worked so closely with Republicans that their policies suffered the same fate.
I always felt that there was a missing piece, and I think I know now what it is. There is an entire society built on the basis of shadow government inducements and cronyism. It's what we don't see that they're after. Campaign money is buying the kind of decisions that the cronies need to make it from one job to the next. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
FloriTexan
(838 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Thanks so much.
moabfan
(48 posts)K&R
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)And before Carter?
artislife
(9,497 posts)If another dem had won the primary back in '92, they would never won the election?
Do you traverse parallel universes for this scientific fact?
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)It speaks to trying to emphasize a reality that is not within the grasp of electorate.
Hyperbole is a popular word this week and it is appropriate here, where it is used to suggest something greater than what was available for action
moabfan
(48 posts)of Ross Perot. Such a key spoiler against the Republicans enough to let Bill Clinton win in a three-way dance.
wyldwolf
(43,867 posts)YoungDemCA
(5,714 posts)than actually support Democrats who have a record of accomplishment.
In the American political system, all change is incremental - as it is designed that way. I have no illusions about that. Instead of whining about Democrats who compromise (oh the humanity! ) and who have a record of building winning coalitions ( the vast majority of voters would never support a socialist candidate, FWIW), they ought to do something productive politically.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)of Wall St and could never, ever be mistaken for anything CLOSE to progressive.
Regressive is the word that comes to mind for these morons, and that is being kind.
Thanks MF for another great OP
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)To me that's the key. I think the Clintons genuinely thought that catering unreservedly to the financial industry, while advocating moderately kinder social policy, was the magic formula, both themselves politically, and for the country.
For a while, it even looked possible. The early .com bubble made millionaires out of office admins. Everyone could invest in the stock market and catch the rising tide.
But it was ill-conceived from the beginning. Speculative bubbles have always been fool's gold. Worse than that, when they pop, the realities dictate that those with the most to lose are damaged the worst. From Black Friday to the S & L scandal, financial institutions, left to "self-regulate" aren't the responsible conduits of everyone's money they purport to be.
They're gamblers. Because gambling is where the ludicrous, gold-plated-island-buying money comes from. Rich is boring. Mega rich is a much bigger rush.
And now we are just climbing out of the smoking crater of the most destructive bubble economy in most of our lifetimes, empowered in large part by the de-regulatory mantra Reagan set out, and which the Clintons bought into regarding Wall Street.
It is the worst possible vision to bring to these times. More than a failure, it actually "broke the world." We cannot afford to revisit it now.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)Then we will need SS more than ever.
shenmue
(38,506 posts)That's how long the reasonableness lasted. Now it's back to shadowy libertarian accusations, just like 20 years ago.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)haikugal
(6,476 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)I am a firm believer that we are to care for each other, for the "least among us."
Simply doesn't make sense around here sometimes.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)There is a lot of weirdness in camp weather vane...
djean111
(14,255 posts)who voted for Fast Track OR shilled for it. The Third Way advises the New Democrat Coalition. They are the ones who wrote that WSJ column informing us snottily that Elizabeth Warren is "getting out of hand".
Fuck them. And don't let anyone blow smoke up yer asses, telling you the DLC/Third Way bullshit is gone. It is alive and well and is killing the Democratic Party.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)plus their willingness to privatize public education...these two things hit me so hard. I wonder how Democrats can support things like that.
MisterP
(23,730 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)I'm fed up with this bullshit!
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)own this, instead of continuing to insist she's a liberal.
mother earth
(6,002 posts)bringing this nation down & plundering and pillaging taxpayer coffers. DINO!!!
Dont call me Shirley
(10,998 posts)davemac
(28 posts)This needs to be called for what it is ...Corporatism..whether Republican or Democrat.....those who support and work for the Oligarchs and their corporations are Corporatists. Period.
azmom
(5,208 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Assuming that they have ever had any.
TBF
(32,047 posts)folks trying to claim that "third way" is a dedication to civil rights. That is only partly correct. "Third way" has always been the folks that called themselves "fiscally conservative, socially liberal".
I was there in the 90s - I worked at the law firm in which the Clinton legal meetings were held (and funded for that matter). I saw all of this up close while it was happening. I was so disgusted by what I saw in Washington DC from both parties that I didn't get involved in politics again until I volunteered for Obama's campaign in 2008.
Writing of history is always by the winners, and usually by the males. I applaud you for trying to set the record straight. These people are frightening because they act like they are friends to labor, then stab us in the back.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)to do to keep me sticking with Bernie is to mention ONE name these days, there are SO MANY MORE for sure. BUT this one name is the one that rises above ALL others at the moment. DEBBIE WASSERMAN-SCHULTZ! As a Floridian I may have paid more attention to her long ago, but now it should be very clear to most that she's willing to do anything to make sure SHE gets the favors she must have been promised. Whatever they are. I know about her closeness with all the Rebukes down in South Florida, and other places too, she's not only DLC and Third Way I think she's worse. And she's so in the bag for Hillary that this alone makes her an unworthy DNC leader.
I give Hillary all the credit in the world for how she handled herself yesterday, but she was defending HERSELF against this onslaught of garbage by a bunch of idiotic, unscrupulous brats who got elected because most were hand picked and gerrymandered. Hillary's testimony should make it clear to the crazies out there that they elected a bunch of morons who have chewed through too many bones. A DOG would have given up long before this. At least my 2 chocolate labs would! If there was something to uncover they most certainly never got close to anything!
I can find no fault with how Hillary acquitted herself, but her policies are the same non-the-less. If not for Bernie in the race we would have NO choice but to fall on our sword again. She's NOT going to go against the Wall Streeters and Corporatists no matter what she's saying now. I knew Bill was more conservative than me, knew Obama was that way too, but I worked for them and voted for them hoping there would be more middle ground. Both have a record of some good successes, both have "personality plus" that sells well and were huge factors in their elections. How they governed was different and this country is going off the rails. They didn't create this mess, but did what they felt was expedient at the time.
Today I'm NOT a happy Democrat, but my support for Bernie is deep and real and know if he can win the nomination it's only a beginning. There's so much to fix and repair and the people of this country have to want to fight hard to turn things around. I can't support Hillary simply because I'm a woman, doesn't work that way for me. Another DLC/Third Way candidate is something I can't support. I KNOW what it is and it doesn't work for me.
In the end, because of the Supreme Court situation I may have to vote for her, but this time I can't waste energy to get out an work for her. Given what's on the other side and IF this country is willing to vote for what's on the other side, then whatever happens is what we deserve! And IT WILL BE BAD! Yep, doing the same thing over and over and hoping for a different outcome are words that everyone should keep at the forefront of there minds.
We are HERE now, it fills me with fear and remorse, can we not try to repair at least some of the damage? I've been a political activist since I was around 16, I've been at it for around 50 years and I KNOW what it means to lose. This loss will hurt the most! My tank is "Running On Empty!" a song by my favorite Jackson Browne.
So ANOTHER long post, but one with my heart and soul included.
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)Subtitle:
Young European politicians at a retreat outside London seek inspiration from the neo-cons to revive the centre-left vision, writes Nicholas Watt
Labelling themselves "the progressive generation", these under-40s hope their document will show the centre left can reclaim the political stage with classic third way ideas on promoting a market economy while driving up standards in public services.
....Only Tony Blair and Gerhard Schröder are still in power and both are diminished figures compared with the late 1990s, when it appeared they would be stamping their vision across Europe and the industrialised world. Mr Mandelson today makes clear how far the third way elite has fallen when he speaks of "past mistakes" - by centre left governments across Europe - who fell from power after "ignoring voters' genuine anxieties over immigration, unemployment" and a host of other touchstone issues. Two former prime ministers who made such mistakes - Giuliano Amato in Italy and Poul Nyrup Rasmussen in Denmark - will be on hand this weekend to provide tips on where they went wrong.
Michiel van Hulten, a former Dutch MEP who, as co-chairman of the Young Progressive Network, is the driving force behind today's declaration, admits he has his work cut out now that a mere five of the EU's old 15 members have centre left governments. In the late 1990s, the figure stood at 13 out of 15.
"We want to take a leaf out of the book of the neo-cons in the United States," Mr Van Hulten says. "They have been incredibly successful over the past 10 to 15 years in building up a public policy agenda, which George Bush is now implementing. This has been missing from the centre left, where the thinking has been short term and disjointed."
DhhD
(4,695 posts)"It's about empire-building, plain and simple," said Clifton. "The US-led invasion and occupation of the sovereign nation of Iraq was and remains unconstitutional, is contrary to the non-aggression and non-interventionist position of Libertarians, and to the principles of just war."
He argues that evidence such as the forged Niger document and the Downing Street memos prove the Bush and Blair administrations knew the case for Saddam Hussein having weapons of mass destruction was non-existent, and not merely a mistake or "intelligence failure ' in the run up to the war.
Clifton adds: "An exit plan recently commissioned by National LP does not conform to the platform position authorized by the party membership, as it has the appearance of accepting the legitimacy of the intervention and current occupation. Many New York Libertarians instead support the party's and Founding Fathers' non-interventionist principles, as well as the will of the sovereign people of Iraq, most of whom desire the military presence there to end without a timetable."
more at link
Clinton knew that a vote for war with Iraq, is another step in privatization/corporatization of the World. Goal of The Third Way is to Merchandise the World setting up a vast chasm between the many that have little/nothing and the few that have it all. A foundation goes in to clean up and help after a catastrophe. No war, no catastrophe.
historylovr
(1,557 posts)Your posts should be required reading, especially this one.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)It's an important story, thanks for the great post!
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Excellent post.
bigtree
(85,986 posts)...his record and positions aren't necessarily interchangeable with his wife's.
I understand the effort to conflate the two. It's dumbed-down, innuendo politics which intends to blur the actual positions and record of the pols being criticized and lump them in with the worst of this think-tank's agenda. Nothing substitutes for debating the actual issues and positions of these individuals though.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)which morphed into the Third Way.
She's surrounded herself with DLC advisors. We're not dumb
bigtree
(85,986 posts),,,but I think that's the design of the shorthand used.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)google is your friend!
bigtree
(85,986 posts)...my remark is directed at those who use this type of shorthand to define politicians. It's misleading, at best, sophistry at worst.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Third-way / DLC **IS** Hilary Clinton's brand of politics. Absolutely, 100%. This is the real, substantive, actual problem Democrats have with Hillary Clinton. Nothing is being implied or insinuated.
This is what Hillary Clinton's political philosophy actually IS.
She stands behind the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Her idea of reform is telling Wall Street to "cut it out." She has distinguished herself 0% from these policies, which she actively supported.
If people want to see her as President, they need to explain why these policies are correct, not pretend they are not hers.
I'm not fond of taking a premise and forcing the result that one prefers in order to support a particular candidate of choice. It doesn't really fit as 3rd way is a dead end that is literally only discussed on DU, to the best of my knowledge.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Primary. Do you have anything to add. I get tired of only hearing the progressive side.
bigtree
(85,986 posts)label Clinton, label me...
Why should anyone need to justify their politics against your own bias?
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Dem2
(8,168 posts)I don't agree with your conflating the history with Bernie or any brand of thinking in today's Democratic party as the "third way" is a bunch of dead enders (IMO) that have little (exactly "0" IMO) bearing on this election cycle.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)http://www.amazon.com/The-Third-Way-Renewal-Democracy/dp/0745622674
But all in all it's a pretty broad term, going back to the early 20th-century, in various contexts, so I wouldn't over-freight it.
Bernblu
(441 posts)forest444
(5,902 posts)Locrian
(4,522 posts)If HRC wins - it's going to go down like this:
1) pretend to be progressive, populist - maybe even "attack" wallstreet but be careful to never really specify what policy and actions would be implemented
2) win people over with "strength". The recent hearings were perfect: NOTHING to do with policy or what / who she would support - just an opportunity to "look presidential" and "strong".
3) go negative if needed - use some of that $$$$$$$$$
4) after election immediately "look forward not behind" and "reach out to bipartisanship" in order to"get things done". This is where the GOP does their part and creates non-stop investigations and scandals to look into in order to keep everyone tracking to the right
5) implement free trade policy, wallstreet "regulations" (wink wink), etc as seen fit ie "the real agenda" for the "real supporters" it "people with money just like me"
6) lather / rinse /repeat
AzDar
(14,023 posts)emsimon33
(3,128 posts)As always, very well researched and written.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Either one of them.
Ugh.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Utopian Leftist
(534 posts)does not always work for those of us on the sane side of the aisle.
It is not unlike what the conservatives accomplished in the Republican Party during the 1960s and 1970s.
That's because they were wrong to begin with. On every issue. So CONS, having nothing to fear but the truth, pulled a CON on themselves and their own party, and shifted ever more belligerently to the right. The Clintons apparently believed they could do the same thing to the Democratic Party: pull a con-job, presenting themselves as liberals when in fact they are far from it.
I think we're all about to find out just how wrong they were to underestimate the passion those of us who are truly on the left, feel for our beliefs. Americans want their left, left and their right, right. Watering down of either position is not the same thing as compromise. Compromise only works to an extent: when one reaches the extent of compromising his/her principles, it's over. Compromised principles lead to watered-down ideas that are never effective. It's become blatantly obvious this week that Tony Blair had no principles, to begin with. He helped Shrub and Powell plan the Iraq War a year before it was sold to Murkastan.
Can the same be said for either Clinton? Only time will tell. But if they truly believe the way forward is to water down RepubliCON economic proposals, then why do they not stand up and admit this truth? Why pretend to be liberals, besides a raw desire to win elections? We must end this silliness now. Politics is not a sport. It's nobody's TURN to be President! There are lives at stake, potentially millions here in this once-in-a-lifetime election.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)is a fusion of Reagan/Thatcher economics with moderate positions on "social issues." And even those "moderate" positions are given quite grudgingly or when poll results suggest that they are necessary.
But the core is Reagan/Thatcher economics and it always will be..
antigop
(12,778 posts)The shift away from the people was embraced most dramatically when Bill Clintons New Democrats came to power in the 1990s. Clinton double-crossed labor with NAFTA and subsequent trade agreements, which encouraged the great migration of manufacturing jobs to low-wage economies. Clintons bank deregulation shifted the economic rewards to finance and set the stage for the calamity that struck in 2008. Wall Street won; working people lost. Clinton presided over the financialization of the Democratic Party. Obama merely inherited his playbook and has governed accordingly, often with the same policy-makers.
The people, of course, are still present in the party, but theyre treated mainly as data for election strategies. The voters themselves resemble the supernumeraries in a grand opera: they appear on stage at election time, always lavishly praised by the pols. But they are given no lines to speak or songs to sing.
BlueStateLib
(937 posts)If you don't know about and understand the history of the Bracero Program and the history of Maquiladora's Program, then there is no way you could ever understand NAFTA or understand that NAFTA actually slowed the job loses to Mexico.
http://dallasfed.org/assets/documents/research/claepapers/2001/lawp0103.pdf
madfloridian
(88,117 posts)We need a new direction that creates jobs, growth, and wealth in an economy where businesses can locate, hire, and expand anywhere in the world, Markell said in a statement. This report offers more than a critique of populism; it offers an ambitious and politically effective economic alternative for the Democratic Party to pursue in the 21st century.
They say we are just not ready for globalization.
The report rejects progressives theory that the primary culprit is a system that favors the wealthy. Instead, it blames changes related to globalization and technology and the countrys lack of preparedness for a new economy.
Maybe we should be more concerned about OUR economy as it relates to the needs of our people.
http://www.delawareonline.com/story/news/2015/10/28/markell-centrist-democrats-warn-economic-populism/74764242/
Recursion
(56,582 posts)Unfortunately the steps we took to fix that hurt us in Congress.