2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumTrey Gowdy Just Elected Hillary Clinton President -Matt Taibbi
Thursday's asinine Benghazi hearing solved every major one of candidate Clintons strategic problem
What happened on the Hill Thursday echoed the famous scene from All the President's Men, when super-source Deep Throat scolds reporter Bob Woodward for botching a story about hated Nixon henchman H.R. Haldeman.
"You let Haldeman slip away," says Deep Throat.
"Yes," answers a sheepish Woodward.
"You've done worse than let Haldeman slip away. You've got people feeling sorry for him. I didn't think that was possible."
With Thursday's interminable, pointless, haranguing, disorganized, utterly amateurish attempt at a smear job, the Republicans and their tenth-rate congressional attack schnauzer, South Carolina's Trey Gowdy, got people feeling sorry for Hillary Clinton. Over the course of 11 long hours, they made the most eloquent argument for a Hillary Clinton presidency yet offered by anyone, including Clinton herself.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/trey-gowdy-just-elected-hillary-clinton-president-20151023
enough
(13,235 posts)professionalism, stamina, mental acuity, etc. etc. etc.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)eom
PatrickforO
(14,514 posts)Lots of stress, no matter how cool you tell yourself to look. I worried about Clinton's health when she was SoS too because she started really looking tired, like all the time.
randys1
(16,286 posts)supporter now either full on Hillary or toss up.
Surprising me
cachukis
(2,200 posts)His challenge to Clinton and the DLC is noted. He went into this with an altruistic mien. Change is slow with the challenged. He tosses down the gauntlet because so few of us will. Eugene Debs ended up in a sanitorium. Joseph Heller ended up in McHale's Navy. If luck holds he'll help us all.
PatrickforO
(14,514 posts)Then we all win.
Ron Green
(9,821 posts)an outcome.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)He used to be a DU darling...I hope you guys aren't going to throw him under the bus too...It will get to the point where they don't make buses big enough.
Ron Green
(9,821 posts)public eye, even someone like Taibbi. It's easy to understand that.
The support Bernie needs, and deserves, is that of the people. Whether he'll get it is unsure; these "public eye" people have some influence, far beyond their willingness to go out on a limb.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)More bashing GOP boneheads, praising her performance and saying what I say -- bad as she is in the important issues of wealth and power....the GOP is far worse
I'm sure he will be back to "bashing" her once this particular GOP debacle receeds
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)The money shot:
Armstead
(47,803 posts)It might work again....But what's the point of winning if the ONLY motivation is to keep the other side at bay?
That's a depressing basis for politics.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)The motivation to keep the other side at bay is to prevent them from dismantling the safety net . To those whose very lives depend on it it's a "big fucking deal."
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Including making a better social safety net.
And also working to reduce the NEED for a social safety net.
ToxMarz
(2,154 posts)It's not so bad that the argument is about which one is more better. I don't think Hillary is "just keeping the other side at bay" .
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)it from happening again. The country is in the ditch for the less fortunate, if they can't see through the fog and roll over again, it will probably get worse. At least there's a CLEAR distinction between Bernie and her, no matter what words come out of her mouth now.
She was defending HERSELF yesterday, not you and me! This country is lost right now, but surely SOMEBODY must have been paying attention. I HAVE to believe this right now. If she's the nominee, at my age the fight in me may die. I've seen this too many times, let's vote for the NEW cheer leader only to find out the OLD cheer leader taught her or him the same rules and how to win.
NOT THIS TIME, NOT AGAIN!
cui bono
(19,926 posts)ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)to keep him down. THAT'S not the Democratic Party I once knew and it stinks up to the highest level. Just play the game, we have room for you, he might make the room too tight!
Saw that and said that from day one!
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)THING AS VOTING! Hillary owes Bernie large.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)many, many years. He has very little good to say for the Clintons or for Obama for that matter. I've watched him on Democracy Now and other alternative networks, he may be seething because of the Repukes, but he isn't supporting Clinton.
On this, as someone who doesn't gamble, I WOULD put good money down on this. I too am seething because of their stupidity because I'm not willing to buy another DLC/Third Way candidate no matter WHAT words are spoken now. I'm DONE with buying what they've sold us for too many years.
I may HAVE to check her name as a nominee, but it won't be FOR her, it will only be because the Supreme Court is on the line. I have very little belief that she's changed any of her current views and I doubt she can "throw the Wall Streeters & Corporatists" under that growing bus. They will now be getting their "gorilla glue" out to be stuck to her forever.
NOPE, I won't give up. I too am a Democrat since birth... a long time ago. But a Democrat who joined the Democratic Party when it stood for "we the people!"
It's such a sad thing to see that this country can be swayed so easily, but then that's WHY we're where we're at. We too easily BUY what everyone thinks is the greatest thing on the market, then a couple of years down the line you can run to any garage sale and buy the SAME thing for almost nothing!
Been around a long time, almost 50 years but this time there's more on the line than people are willing to see clearly. Not a ringing statement for what Democracy is supposed to be! Buyer BEWARE!
JMHO!
zeemike
(18,998 posts)The GOP has always wanted to pick who they ran against.
And if Clinton is the one the PTB cannot lose.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)Only political wonks watched that charade. The average person had more important things to do, like making enough money so their family has a roof over their heads and food to eat. This is middle class Kabuki theater, really who cares?
Real people care about kitchen table topics, not what some asinine people talk about in DC that doesn't affect them in any way. Really, they are more concerned about paying their bills or some sort of entertainment than those theatrics by too full of themselves politicians. Now, if they were talking about something that effected the average American, then they would pay attention. But, damn, who the hell has ever heard of Benghazi before this incident happened?
Z
padfun
(1,780 posts)Everyone I know is working except for one of my nephews, who is growing pot for coops and makes more than me.
Even my other nephew who got out of a 2 years stint in prison is working. He got a full time welding job and seems to love it.
So in my monkeysphere, 98% of the people are working and almost all make enough to have several hundred for discretionary spending. Are our wages stagnant? Yes, but prices have actually dropped in the last year, at least in Northern Cal, where it is expensive to live anyways. I pay less for food and gas than I did a year ago. And my mortgage will be the same again.
So either the economy sucks where you are, or the problem is you. Do you have computer skills? Construction skills?
If it is your area, maybe you should think of relocating. I can guarantee that you can get a job in Sacramento. We are advertising several jobs and aren't getting many applicants.
I don't mean to sound rough, but really, most people are working and making it just fine. And most are making a lot more than me.
zalinda
(5,621 posts)Goodbye Middle Class: 51 Percent Of All American Workers Make Less Than 30,000 Dollars A Year
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2015/10/goodbye-middle-class-51-percent-of-all-american-workers-make-less-than-30000-dollars-a-year.html
You can find the report that the Social Security Administration just released right here. The following are some of the numbers that really stood out for me
-38 percent of all American workers made less than $20,000 last year.
-51 percent of all American workers made less than $30,000 last year.
-62 percent of all American workers made less than $40,000 last year.
-71 percent of all American workers made less than $50,000 last year.
And, I'm below that, even with food stamps and my Medicaid/Medicare perks, I'm topped out at maybe $12,000 a year. And, again no COLA.
My son, who does have physical limitations, has had only 2 interview in 5 years. He used to do tech service at National Grid, but through a temp agency. But, National Grid has now outsourced those jobs, as has many other places. He can't drive, well he could, but you wouldn't want to drive on the road with him, as his vision is not dependable, but he can pass the eye exam. He has applied for many jobs, not even in the computer field, still no luck. His resume has been redone probably 4 or 5 times, by people who are supposed to be expert. Still, no luck. He has done some freelance computer repair and a few websites, over the years, his regulars come back to him, but no new customers. He is competing with college kids from 3 or 4 colleges in the area, plus other colleges not too far away. He's seeing it as hopeless, and I have to admit, I am too.
Z
padfun
(1,780 posts)I know there are groups of people struggling.
Do you live in a red state by any chance?
I live in Syracuse, NY, which is kind of purple. There are red pockets around, but then there is Ithaca, which is supposed to be a far left community.
New York state is a very strange state. It has a few big cities (100,000 or so) and the rest is quite rural. Bus schedules and routes are ridiculous. They stop running around a little after 10 at the big mall here, but the employees are expected to work past that. And, of course, full time jobs are few and far between.
It's just a mess here. We can't move, but things aren't dire, we are making friends at the food bank. We do have friends here, so that's good.
Now, my son, who has not and doesn't even want to discuss politics, is following Bernie, and is excited about him. Mind you, it's just a first step, but he brings up Bernie to me, rather than I do the talking. And, I'm starting to see Bernie bumper stickers and signs, so there is hope.
Z
AzDar
(14,023 posts)but Bernie Sanders is our best hope.
DrBulldog
(841 posts)Adding that to Trump and Carson, the bar for the American Presidency has now reached an all-time low.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)eom
elehhhhna
(32,076 posts)TheFarseer
(9,308 posts)They always go way over the top and make it look like partisan nonsense and make the other side look sympathetic and professional by contrast. And they never learn!
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)than "giving in" to what you may not want. Her appearance and testimony was superb, but it WASN'T a testimony for "we the people" and if this country can't see it this we're just a bunch of spineless quitters just as our very own Democratic Party.
I'm still hard core Bernie, I WILL FIGHT for him now more than ever! If people have decided to support her now over Bernie then they are willing to support MORE OF THE SAME! I've read Matt Tiabbi's articles hundreds of times and I've never gotten the feeling he's anyone who supports ANYTHING Hillary stands for. In fact listening to him on Democracy Now many times he's surprised me by his distaste and DISGUST for how this country operates now.
I'd probably bet money he's sticking a finger in the Repukes eyes for their PISS POOR handling of this fiasco and making her look so good. I give credit for her performance, said so many times here, but her policies and what I still believe she will do HAVE NOT changed my mind.
BUT THEN, this country is no longer a shining beacon of light! Other countries are beginning to WONDER what the hell happened to a once great country. And I have talked to people from other countries one on one. I'm not going to get long winded about what's been said.
So to all here who think DEFEAT already, you were NEVER willing to fight in the beginning. What was said yesterday said NOTHING about how she plans to lead as a POTUS! Great performance, kudos... but still not buying what's behind the curtain.
I WILL FIGHT BACK!
ronnykmarshall
(35,356 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)I liked this one: (Actually, I liked all of them.)
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)ronnykmarshall
(35,356 posts)"you take take that stack of e-mails and stick them up your ass"
mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)ronnykmarshall
(35,356 posts)mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)mountain grammy
(26,568 posts)but I still believe Bernie can get the nomination.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)They did the same thing during the impeachment of Clinton I. He created a mess big enough to drag himself down but they overplayed their hand and the public wound up sympathizing with him.
By beating Hillary about the head and shoulders for three years over Benghazi they have turned her into a victim and once again the public sympathizes with her. If they would just STFU and let her try to explain what if anything she actually stands for, rather than all the bullshit platitudes she continues to spout, she'd be toast as a presidential possibility, because basically theres nothing there.
Just proves that you can't send a boy to do a mans job. If progressives want to insure that Hillary Clinton never becomes president of the US, we can't depend on a pipsqueak like Trey Gowdy to do it for us.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Well....that's an interesting observation.
gordianot
(15,226 posts)This sort of treatment is usually provided for potential criminals and spies in the modern era. They even provided her with the answers which would satisfy their grilling, a dark interrogation tactic. All she had to do to get relief from more treatment is confess. They impugned her humanity with insults. The only thing left was a board bucket of water and a wet towel. I was actually surprised she was afforded a glass of water when she lost her voice and choked, you could see from my vantage point a gleam of delight by her tormentors with feigned sympathy. Hillary deserves a medal from the State Department for bravery in the face of domestic enemies of the United States.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,704 posts)It's how the police secured false confessions pre Miranda.