The difference between Bernie and all or almost all other politicians, is he doesnt automatically go after the opponent the way a politician does.

He is usually not focused on any individual, but on issues as a whole.

that she does unnecessarily.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

Or maybe the Wall St cash cow told her to step up he aggressive wave of BS

Of course Bernie is not a sexist.

Bill should just remember how lucky he is..

But you nailed it.

Where did that come from? I don't think for one second that Bernie was referencing her directly with his stance on gun control. He's just talking about "the sides" so to speak.

This is more media BS trying to create a food fight.

I believe he said something about shouting and guns but I don't remember the exact phrase.

As those who refuse to see.
It's pretty damn obvious she was talking about Bernie.

Big applause line.

I heard it. It was totally clear what she was saying.

Whenever Bernie talks about gun control he typically uses the phrase, "We need to stop all the shouting." Or at least something close to that effect.

I know you're a strong supporter of Hillary, but this is obvious. She used the word 'shouting' very deliberately.

Even less convincing....Streeeeetch.

Have any other people said that? Who might she be referring to, if not Sanders?

while they continue to do it.

"I" is a really strong clue about who she's referring to.

She told herself to stop shouting about guns??

Someone else has told her to stop shouting about guns. Going by the rest of the speech, it was the NRA, and/or gun manufacturers and dealers.

Context. It-s important.

And their recent statement about Hillary.

shouting about gun violence and DO something about it", or something to that effect.

I was just trying to clarify that Clinton was, in fact, referencing Bernie.

this kind of stuff.

"Making stuff up" is not a liberal trait.

Like coming under sniper fire?

As is using multiple emoticons in substitute of language.

All I see when issues are discussed is emoticons from hrc supporters

The target of the remarks would appear logically, for logical folks, to be the NRA, which is the common enemy, is it not??

See comment #47 and 33 and some others.

who would become world famous....years after your birth.

I hadn't heard about this. It's a minor issue but amusing nonetheless

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

said that “all the shouting in the world” will not improve gun laws. That seems clear to me.

we need to shit or get off the pot. He's right. All the shouting does NOTHING. Hell, we can't even ban assault weapons

Why would she take a dig at Bernie? It isn't enough of a horse race.

perhaps, the beck chalk board might help!

Those two will of course criticize one another as the campaign rolls out but what does a "woman shouting" have to do with anything?

Especially considering that critics of Bernie also accuse HIM of shouting.

It's not even remotely sexist. Men get told not to shout all the time.

n/t

I noticed during the debate how many times she brought up the fact that she's a woman, as if everyone didn't already know that.

I want a woman president as much as anybody, but I'm not going to vote for somebody just because they're a woman. And honestly, it's a little off-putting to hear it over and over.

that she needs to be careful about this. Many of my Facebook friends, both male and female, commented about it during the debate. She can push her gender if she wants to, but there may be some peril in doing it.

but sexism is not going to do it..that was not a wise way to attack Bernie because it just is not there

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

There is no question in my mind that there wasn't even a subconscious thought of sexism in that comment. This is not an opinion on the nature of the comment as a whole. There are people who could say it that could be described as sexist. Not even close with Sanders.

She needs to omit the last line. It could easily be changed into an excellent one.

due to the fact that many Bernie supporters feeling burned and 'bum-rushed' by the party may just not vote because of it. One does not make friends by PO'ing them off.

in the general election regardless of how the primary campaign turns out but one should remember at his time in the campaign...a great October can very quickly, and without a lot of warning..turn into a dismal November..such is the thrill of the Primary process!

probably not the best move. Her ethics are a little suspect from her racist 2008 campaign and all of the "evolving". I don't see this helping.

Thanks in advance.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

Cause she's the only one talking about gun control

Sanders gave her a hell of a gift during the debates and also did not really go after her on her Wall Street connections.

There is really no reason to attack Sanders.

With regard to what Sanders said.

He was essentially saying that we can talk about gun control all we want but you have to build a base to support it. I mean Manchin and Toomey, a dem and a republican proposed a very modest gun regulation bill in the wake of a mass shooting and it got shot down, so there's really no way Hillary can do anything and doing anything will cause the party to lose votes in rural areas.

Remember her husband copped to giving congress to the GOP due to his gun control initiatives.

Same ol' same ol'.

She's kidding, I hope.

The rest of us know when to duck.

'Sometimes when a woman talks, some people think it’s shouting!'

We know this is true. But, it is also true that gun control activists do shout a whole lot and I think this is true whether they are male or female.

I would like it if Hillary focused on that truth about women talking it's important. I would also like to see more focus on ways to reduce our culture of violence other than just focusing on the methods of violence.

Bernie says the shouting line regularly.

... this thread would have 200 recs and be full of poutrage.

It was a slippery dig that both criticized Sanders, distorted what he said....and then added "They wouldn't say that about a MALE candidate" implying that criticizing her is unfair bcause she is a woman.

A triple play of the type that adds to the murkiness.

If she had simply said "Sen. Sanders says we should not shout about guns. Well i disagree. I believe we should shout about it" ....and left it at then okay fine. But he did the Clinton "I said this, but I didn't really say what you thought you heard."

And that she needed a response to Bernie's line about shouting. I think she definitely owns it. May not be the best formula in a primary though. On sexism: Suppose I were to say something sexist, does that make me a sexist? I don't think so. If I said all kinds of sexist things all the time then of course I would be. But, pointing out that a sexist remark has been made is sometimes necessary too, because we can all repeat things or say things without having considered whether it could be a sexist remark, because we are all human.

Males get criticized for it all the time, including Berrnie.

And as I said, if she wanted to criticize Sanders, she should do so directly on the issue. Have a real debate about it, and not this kind of three-level indirect snark.

to defend his gun votes. And I think if Hillary and other women (which excludes me) think that using a line about shouting about the need for gun control is sexist or aimed at silencing them in particular then I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have not the experience that women have to make that judgement.

As I noted about that exchange, if O'Malley or any male candidate had jumped on Sanders in the same way, he wold have likely responded in the exact same way.

Common courtesy is important. But we can't have one set of rules for male candidates and another for female ones. That gets very stifling.

I don't feel qualified to judge, I would rather link to a well written and very recent article on the subject of Sanders prospects and his evolving position on gun control. They actually do discuss the shouting rhetoric here as well.

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/23/the_big_speech_bernie_sanders_must_give_why_she_should_put_his_socialism_speech_on_hold_and_address_gun_violence_first/

considering his own speaking demeanor.

Martin O'Malley Remarks at DNC Women's Leadership Forum

He has dramatic progressive proposals, with experience to back them up, and Dems should surely pay attention.

http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4556444/martin-omalley-remarks-dnc-womens-leadership-forum

Not the first time the MSM has been mistaken when it comes to HRC or Bernie.

it's a line from Bernie that's part of his repertoire. He's talking about how people shout at one another over the gun issue and he's repeated the same line many times. And it's true. The NRA is ready to accuse Obama or whoever happens to be prez of wanting to "take our guns." And the yelling begins.

directed at her. She better watch herself and quit playing the gender card or she might have backlash from some male voters and I'm sure that some females might find it objectionable as well. The other thing she needs to consider is that she has many vulnerabilities and is opening herself to Bernie taking shots at her. If she takes more shots at Bernie I won't mind if he shot back. At some point he might be forced to fight back.

Now that Hillary is loaded up on Wall St,corporate mafia money now she is ready to roll with negative scripts.
Since two candidates dropped out maybe she thinks the anointing process has begun.


GO Bernie !!!!

what utter bullshit, and if you keep playing the gender/victim card, you will lose by even bigger margins than are likely now.

just stop.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

But this makes her less appealing to me.

but that said, I think Sanders is wrong about what the problem with the gun debate is. The gun control side has done the opposite of shouting to our great detriment.

Reading is a wonderful thing. I highly recommend it.

CLINTON: No, not at all. I think that we have to look at the fact that we lose 90 people a day from gun violence. This has gone on too long and it’s time the entire country stood up against the NRA. The majority of our country...

(APPLAUSE) ... supports background checks, and even the majority of gun owners do. Senator Sanders did vote five times against the Brady bill. Since it was passed, more than 2 million prohibited purchases have been prevented. He also did vote, as he said, for this immunity provision. I voted against it. I was in the Senate at the same time. It wasn’t that complicated to me. It was pretty straightforward to me that he was going to give immunity to the only industry in America. Everybody else has to be accountable, but not the gun manufacturers. And we need to stand up and say: Enough of that. We’re not going to let it continue.

(APPLAUSE)

COOPER: We’re going to bring you all in on this. But, Senator Sanders, you have to give a response.

SANDERS: As a senator from a rural state, what I can tell Secretary Clinton, that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want, and that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns and end this horrible violence that we are seeing. I believe that there is a consensus in this country. A consensus has said we need to strengthen and expand instant background checks, do away with this gun show loophole, that we have to address the issue of mental health, that we have to deal with the strawman purchasing issue, and that when we develop that consensus, we can finally, finally do something to address this issue.


I read. You decide. Was it sexist? I don't know, but I do know that forceful - direct women are put down every day. The one thing that stood out for me here was BS apparently was concerned about his constituents in regards to Gun Control but when pressed about Vermont shipping prisoners out of state to Private Prisons and Vermont not being able to afford Single Payer.... his response was "I'm not the Governor".

... but you can see the knives now coming out from the Hillary camp just as they did against Obama when he became a serious challenge to her. Some things never change.

I feel her most formidable attacks are reserved for liberals and in-party rivals who get in her way. She seems more relaxed when dealing with the goppers; like when lawyers from opposing sides who know they're meeting up for drinks after the trial.

Oh boy back for another?

I really can't believe I supported her in 2008.

Shame on her and her campaign.

get it. Just ONE of many reasons that NOT ONE person I know will vote for her.

Yes, anything directed to how a woman communicates is generally that. They so often want to tell us what our tone of voice should be. Yet when do they criticize each other for this kind of thing?

We know how hard President Obama had to work to prevent appearing "angry." Same for women.

So "shouting" is now on the verboten list of words? Is "yelling" okay? How about "speaking too loudly"? "Speaking too forcefully"?

I don't condone sexist words or double standards. Women shouldn't be faulted for being strong or forceful or any of thiose things.

I don't condone bad manners (despite my occasional bad manners in DU) and generally believe everyone should be treated respectfully.

But the list of forbidden "sexist" words, phrases and concepts keeps getting longer and longer. Pretty soon absolutely nothing remotely critical will be allowed to be said. The only allowed will be "You are so winderful." "So are you."

That's a load. With a level playing field you take the good with the bad. Men get told that they shouldn't shout. Bernie is often accused (by Clinton supporters) of shouting about things.

Sometimes men get told that in more direct ways, as in "Shut up."

If women want the same rules to apply to them as men, they can't be treated as fragile flowers. Equality is not exemption from criticism. Nor can they avoid being lumped together in a non-gender specific group or a generic reference.

Would it have been better of Sanders had said "You can't refer to this subject in a manner that is too strident"? No can't say that. Can't feed into the strident woman gender stereotype...."Make your points too forcefully?" Heavens no.....Can't make the point period.

Men talking to women often give up the point and resort to explaining to the woman how she is not talking "properly."

It's not an even playing field. Men don't get stopped as soon because they are shouting or being unman like in the way they are communicating.

Give me examples of men chiding other men (and as soon into a debate) about the way they are talking rather than what they are talking about. The judgment comes up much sooner for women.

Clinton was criticizing him and getting very animated about it and was playing to the crowd. And she closed by saying "And we need to stand up and say: Enough of that. We're not going to let it continue." And Sanders replied that shouting about the issue was not going to solve it.

If O'Malley or any male candidate had gone after Sanders in the same way, I suspect his response would have been exactly the same. Gender had NOTHING to do with it.

Transcript:

CLINTON: Senator Sanders did vote five times against the Brady bill. Since it was passed, more than 2 million prohibited purchases have been prevented. He also did vote, as he said, for this immunity provision. I voted against it. I was in the Senate at the same time. It wasn't that complicated to me. It was pretty straightforward to me that he was going to give immunity to the only industry in America. Everybody else has to be accountable, but not the gun manufacturers. And we need to stand up and say: Enough of that. We're not going to let it continue.

COOPER: We're going to bring you all in on this. But, Senator Sanders, you have to give a response.

SANDERS: As a senator from a rural state, what I can tell Secretary Clinton, that all the shouting in the world is not going to do what I would hope all of us want, and that is keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have those guns and end this horrible violence that we are seeing.

I believe that there is a consensus in this country. A consensus has said we need to strengthen and expand instant background checks, do away with this gun show loophole, that we have to address the issue of mental health, that we have to deal with the strawman purchasing issue, and that when we develop that consensus, we can finally, finally do something to address this issue.

he was not saying to her she was the one shouting, it sounds more general.

But had she actually yelled or shouted at any point, the media will be on her about it.

It would have to be a real big flare up.

I don't think anyone running for POTUS can have a flare up in public, they have to be a lot tougher than that. But Obama had to avoid even the slightest appearance of it and Hillary would too.

Funny thing is Obama has gotten away with shedding a tear or two a long the way. That's one thing Hillary can never do.

Yes Hillary, we all know you're a woman, so what? I don't walk around my workplace reminding everyone that I'm a woman, why do you keep bringing it up?

had toward her during the hearing and build on that. Going after Bernie erases it.