2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThere is one big reason why I'd like to see Bernie Sanders as president.
It would be a huge reality check to everyone currently bashing Obama for not magically getting the Republicans to come on board with his agenda (and who will no doubt bash Hillary for the same reason). In the unlikely event that Bernie becomes president, it will quickly become apparent that, in practical terms, nothing much will have changed from Obama.
There will be no single payer. There will be no free college. There will be no $15 minimum wage. What there will be is more gridlock and legislative battles, some executive actions. There will be some incremental progress, but, regardless of who is president (from the Dem side), we will be lucky if they approach Obama's historical presidency in terms of progressive accomplishments.
At some point during a Bernie presidency (maybe once he gives up on single payer after six months of failing to persuade a single Republican and many centrist Dems to support it), the Obama/Hillary bashers will have two alternatives. One, they can turn into Bernie bashers. Or two, they can finally wake up to the political reality that the president is not a dictator.
I'm guessing that a lot of them will choose door number two. And that would be good.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)One of the big complaints about Clinton at that time was that she was so hated by the republicans, she could get nothing done as President because they would not cooperate with her. Many here on DU blamed Clinton for the vast-RW-conspiracy. Well, as many of us knew, and everyone else discovered--it was not Clinton, but rather it was the republicans that were the problem.
I also believe that many grew up in the era of constant Clinton bashing by the republicans using the complicit media. Hate was generated by people who should know better.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)make a change alone, but people pressure can.
President Obama tried but he made the mistake of putting Rahm Emmanuel in as Chief of staff. I think he would have done a lot better if he had put more progressives into positions of importance.
When Democratic activists were going to hold the the blue dogs feet to the fire to try to get single payer, or at least a public option he insulted them and dismissed them. They seemed more worried about getting the support of Olympia Snowe than to enforce a bit of party discipline. The republicans meanwhile circled their wagons and were the most obstructionist political minority in modern American history.
I like President Obama and voted for him, but he did make a lot of mistakes that were enabled by the third-way sorts.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I think President Obama sincerely wanted to do well. Maybe he sold himself as being a bit more progressive than he was, but he definitely wanted to do a lot more than he did. I think he made a few mistakes politically in thinking that he could sit down and negotiate in good faith with the republicans. He had faith in the good of human nature and I had faith in him. It might have been mistaken but I don't think he had bad intentions.
I believe that he was pressured to put in a few of the conservative democrats and third way sorts as a move towards party unity. There probably were people in that faction that might have worked, but Rahm was too interested in hippie-punching to be much use. Add to this Geithner and Summer and you have a recipe for problems and a heavy influence towards status quo thinking built into his own administration.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)tecelote
(5,122 posts)I mean, why vote? It doesn't matter.
DanTex
(20,709 posts)that is that I'll be voting for the Dem nominee in the general. If the GOP takes over all branches if government, we have a big problem.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)I'll vote for Bernie first but if Hillary wins, she's miles ahead of any Republican and has my vote for sure.
But, my hope is that Bernie creates a revolution and America experiences real change.
bigtree
(85,917 posts)...the activism of his 'revolution' of voters and the pressure they would exert on D.C. pols..
It's not an unheard-of strategy and would be interesting to participate in if it actually materialized as he envisions. I daresay, it's really what every pol who runs for president should aspire to.
global1
(25,167 posts)they can do it on their own. Bernie is the only one realistic enough to know he needs a People Powered Revolution behind him to make the big changes. I think The People are beginning to realize that now as well.
bigtree
(85,917 posts)...all three Dems have made similar statements about the importance of the people to their campaigns.
brooklynite
(93,851 posts)I'm guessing, not a lot.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)But in the end we are fighting to build off the great work of Obama. Might I even say expand the scope of his good work. That is why you and I are supporting someone who we know will do just that. Happy Tuesday DanTex. Sanders would be better than a republican. His positions are excellent, his leadership is virtually non-existent, which matches his network.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)probably starting on January 21, 2017.
They don't know how to do anything else.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)You must be confused.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)eom
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The radical leftist extremists derided him before he ever took office.
And eventually, they will see their Saint Sanders be the same disappointment because they are wholly naive and ignorant as to how politics function.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Just the group of people I think that way about does not overlap those you are talking about.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)spent time harping at say, LGBT people for pushing him on marriage equality and DADT. Obama had come to LGBT groups and asked us to be forceful about pushing our objectives and we did. He responded with political acumen and much victory was had by Obama and LGBT activists victory his ardent and self proclaimed 'supporters' nattered against at every possible moment. When they could have joined in with us, they instead joined with those criticizing us which was the Republicans and not Obama. Obama was being our partner. His ardents were being background noise. DU archives will show you that to be true 'you want a pony' and 'it's all poutrage, Rick Warren is a good man!'
Yeah.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Bwahahahaahahahahahah!
That is hilarious! By that commentary, Ike, FDR and Teddy were "radical leftist extremists". lol
Seems pretty extremist to me.
Hey, the cold war is over, the red army isn't marching through the streets and the best places in the world to live are social democracies.
Times change, people change, causes change.
kenfrequed
(7,865 posts)I mean, you can't get that good 'ole schadenfreude if he doesn't get elected and I am eager to have you tell us all "I told you so."
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)of the same obstructionist GOP Congress that existed for President Obama. If Bernie wins the nomination and the presidency, it's going to be because he brought hordes of young people and people who have typically not been involved in voting to the polls to vote him in. Those people are also very likely to vote for progressives in the down ticket races. If Bernie wins the presidency, The Dems will have the Senate and a good chunk of the house, and a lot of the wackos will be gone. I expect he would be able to get a lot more than some fear.
and just to clarify, are you suggesting in your post that you only want to see Bernie win the presidency to see him fail? So that you can say I told you so? How does that attitude advance any progressive causes at all?
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Obama did not even put up a fight. I do not think that will occur with a Sander's Presidency.
phantom power
(25,966 posts)If yours is hoping to prove that the Presidency is irrelevant, there is no wrong answer!
Chan790
(20,176 posts)We just know that unlike Obama who starts from a concession position of what he actually wants and Hillary who is bought-and-paid-for by Wall St. and will be starting from what they want...Sanders is going to stake out a negotiating position on the left and make them actually negotiate and horse-trade the things they want for the things we want.
We don't think we're going to get everything we want.
We just know we're going to get a lot closer than we will with Hillary starting right-of-center and compromising towards the loonie-right fringe or Obama who concedes half his "wants" from the outset as a gesture of good faith with fascists that view those concessions as weakness.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)messiah and claimed he'd never get anything done. 'He's just a celebrity candidate, his fans think he is their savior!'