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boston bean

(36,186 posts)
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 08:54 PM Apr 2013

Thread to discuss sexism and misogyny you encounter on DU.

This discussion thread is pinned.

I think it's important that we have a safe place to discuss examples of sexism and misogyny we encounter on DU.

To support one another, gain strength from one another and learn from one another.

It will also help to keep it all in one space.

Please use good judgment when posting. We have some fans who like to troll the group and make alerts to get posts hidden.

Be respectful, and factual. Focus on the example of sexism and misogyny, not the poster.

I'll be creating and pinning a new thread and lock the old when it's needed.

link #1 located here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1255&pid=18979

link # 2 located here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/125519322

Jury, please do not hide this thread. Feminists should be able to have a safe place on DU to discuss sexism and misogyny they are encountering on DU. This is a safe haven group, for likeminded members. If people don't like it here, they have the right to trash the group and forever we will be out of sight for them. We get a lot of trolling. Thank you for your consideration.

Boston Bean

177 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Thread to discuss sexism and misogyny you encounter on DU. (Original Post) boston bean Apr 2013 OP
Thank you BB. Texasgal Apr 2013 #1
Solidarity! boston bean Apr 2013 #8
Thank you for reopening/pinning this thread. TDale313 Apr 2013 #2
Your welcome TDale. Thanks for showing your support! boston bean Apr 2013 #9
Yeah! haikugal Apr 2013 #3
Hey-o haikugal! boston bean Apr 2013 #13
(((hugs))) haikugal Apr 2013 #16
Edited BainsBane Apr 2013 #4
BB, I admire you. Z_I_Peevey Apr 2013 #5
Oh Z_I_ boston bean Apr 2013 #6
Good on you Boston Bean!! Nt Tien1985 Apr 2013 #7
Hey Tien! Thank you for all of your support! boston bean Apr 2013 #10
Tien rocks! BainsBane Apr 2013 #11
"discuss sexism and misogyny you encounter on DU." all of today, in so many ways. nt seabeyond Apr 2013 #12
I'm glad to see you started this thread again personally I try to be an ally however imperfect Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #14
Hi-o Arcane! boston bean Apr 2013 #15
ya, but each of us are certainly perfectly imperfect. seabeyond Apr 2013 #17
Wouldn't that be great BainsBane Apr 2013 #18
Have you seen the thread about Bernie Sanders chervilant Apr 2013 #19
That was disappointing. MadrasT Apr 2013 #21
The woman who attacked me just started chervilant Apr 2013 #22
Boo hoo. Got called out for using "tits" and "bimbo". MadrasT Apr 2013 #23
Yeah, but chervilant Apr 2013 #24
that's cause you keep your clothes on BainsBane Apr 2013 #25
AND, 'everyone' knows chervilant Apr 2013 #28
I wonder if I'd have more credibility BainsBane Apr 2013 #31
Oh, lord! chervilant Apr 2013 #33
that's a given BainsBane Apr 2013 #34
Feminists calling women bimbos... redqueen Apr 2013 #29
Will wonders never cease? chervilant Apr 2013 #20
I proposed a cease fire BainsBane Apr 2013 #26
Having witnessed chervilant Apr 2013 #27
I missed your OP BainsBane Apr 2013 #30
I haven't written it yet. chervilant Apr 2013 #32
if you're waiting for it to stop BainsBane Apr 2013 #35
I was referring to the unbridled chervilant Apr 2013 #36
that's how it always goes BainsBane Apr 2013 #37
My theory gaspee Apr 2013 #93
my explanation is simpler BainsBane Apr 2013 #97
I was going to go there gaspee Apr 2013 #101
i did it when i was younger. why would i want to be a part of the oppressed. then i grew up seabeyond Apr 2013 #103
That is what I find most perplexing BainsBane Apr 2013 #107
steinem quote i like. seabeyond Apr 2013 #109
Some people deal with gaspee Apr 2013 #91
WTF? BainsBane Apr 2013 #38
Like I said in another thread Texasgal Apr 2013 #39
I'd like to see someone BainsBane Apr 2013 #40
I don't know if that will even help Texasgal Apr 2013 #41
this whole thread. seabeyond Apr 2013 #42
Wow, yeah, I bet Putin surely changed his mind about whatever that day. redqueen Apr 2013 #43
The picture was hilarious *and* a perfect example of why Femen is utterly ridiculous. n/t MadrasT Apr 2013 #44
putin objectifying the woman, being the alpha male he is, giving femen what they want. seabeyond Apr 2013 #45
It just shows how ridiculous some persons reactions were to boston bean Apr 2013 #46
liten up. just a joke. ya... as it fuckin effects and impairs women, BUT seabeyond Apr 2013 #47
What is really stunning to me is the willful ignorance. redqueen Apr 2013 #56
I'm in this thread conversing now and it amazes me how all these people Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #49
they saw it before. they see it now. and they will see it next time. seabeyond Apr 2013 #53
It annoys me as a male I'm not sure how you deal with it Arcanetrance Apr 2013 #55
a lie. just another lie created. you have an issue with boobs. clearly, every post, seabeyond Apr 2013 #58
It's a tactic used to make objectors seem unhip, backward, and dare I say it... MadrasT Apr 2013 #59
It's not that you don't have to be antisex, etc., to think they're not effective; it's just that ancianita Nov 2013 #146
in the dark sigmasix Apr 2013 #83
The best explanation I've seen BainsBane Apr 2013 #84
Oh the irony.... MadrasT Apr 2013 #48
uh... I must be out of the loop boston bean Apr 2013 #50
I have no idea WTF he is talking about. MadrasT Apr 2013 #51
LOL! HAHAHAH! boston bean Apr 2013 #52
Well shit. MadrasT Apr 2013 #57
i even brought the wine. i was the only that showed. hence, .... all my wine induced posts the seabeyond Apr 2013 #60
It's my birthday. I might engage in some PUI later, LOL. MadrasT Apr 2013 #61
i will join you, i think. if pui means wine, lol seabeyond Apr 2013 #62
"Posting while Under the Influence" MadrasT Apr 2013 #63
I knew you were an arrogant bastard kinda gal... seabeyond Apr 2013 #64
not nearly as perilous BainsBane Apr 2013 #65
"project so far that their conclusion actually leaves the solar system" redqueen Apr 2013 #66
it would be interesting for skinner to let us know what group gets the most alerts. seabeyond Apr 2013 #54
The usual suspects in that thread wonderfully illustrating an obtus LanternWaste Apr 2013 #124
Our "allies" BainsBane Apr 2013 #67
Only one of them posted. DURHAM D Apr 2013 #68
Apparently. BainsBane Apr 2013 #73
So disgusted by that. TDale313 Apr 2013 #76
People can at least see their true colors. BainsBane Apr 2013 #78
Very true. n/t TDale313 Apr 2013 #80
stuff like this gets a pass mercuryblues Apr 2013 #69
But then this gets a 5-1 Hide DURHAM D Apr 2013 #70
Juror#6 is quoting from a movie musical about censorship Kurovski Jan 2014 #158
I have "tits" in my keyword trash list MadrasT Apr 2013 #71
this poster is having a good little hoot over this. what dinner skinner lecture whisp about? seabeyond Apr 2013 #74
Another good hide - 4-2 DURHAM D Apr 2013 #72
loved jury 6. i was curious about this one. i do not even bother. assuming they have consent to seabeyond Apr 2013 #75
I thought long and hard before I sent the alert DURHAM D Apr 2013 #79
The one that amazed me BainsBane Apr 2013 #82
That is a good one, and surprising BainsBane Apr 2013 #77
ya. this. lol. nt seabeyond Apr 2013 #81
Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #89
A good 6-0 Hide DURHAM D Apr 2013 #85
about time. boston bean Apr 2013 #87
This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Apr 2013 #86
Karl Rove does a jig each time we fan the flames of our internal discord. Divide and conquer, Exultant Democracy Apr 2013 #88
I am not sure I understand your post. DURHAM D Apr 2013 #90
Women vote for Democrats more reliably than men. redqueen Apr 2013 #92
I vote D in spite gaspee Apr 2013 #94
I've heard many feminists say that, where sexism and misogyny are concerned, redqueen Apr 2013 #95
To one group, we're private property, to the other, public. seabeyond Apr 2013 #99
I should give a hat tip to the many radical feminists redqueen Apr 2013 #105
yeh, that's a pointy one for sure. Whisp Apr 2013 #111
Pretty much exactly gaspee Apr 2013 #100
and THIS is why i love your voice and wanted to give you a shout out in the thread that was locked. seabeyond Apr 2013 #102
Please don't ever apologize for going off on riffs like that. redqueen Apr 2013 #106
Yep! I'm a radical feminist, too! Stay tough! It gets attention! ancianita Nov 2013 #148
Interesting point about presumed consent. Shivering Jemmy Apr 2013 #110
False dichotomy. redqueen Apr 2013 #113
I hear what you are saying Shivering Jemmy Apr 2013 #115
Exactly. redqueen Apr 2013 #116
Yes, yes, yes...and for reasons that have now disappeared from most males' consciousness. ancianita Nov 2013 #147
I like to think so, too. redqueen Nov 2013 #151
One thing I learned teaching hs, you need to realize that your influence ripples across people ancianita Nov 2013 #152
yup... man issue, not a party issue. nt seabeyond Apr 2013 #98
mmmm. some man calling us a C word has nothing to do with it? nt seabeyond Apr 2013 #96
I‘ve not experienced it on the DU. I guess applegrove Apr 2013 #104
good for you. we were just called the c word today, and shrills. so we are not experiencing du seabeyond Apr 2013 #108
I trashed two threads last night ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #112
The endless flogging of one set of statistics about rape is enough reason to ignore. redqueen Apr 2013 #114
I read another view of the issue ismnotwasm Apr 2013 #117
You were so restrained BainsBane Apr 2013 #118
Hardly anyone is addressing that. redqueen Apr 2013 #122
This message was self-deleted by its author BainsBane Apr 2013 #119
A very revealing juror comment.... hlthe2b Apr 2013 #120
isnt that interesting. and yes, i have heard this excuse used for sexist slurs. but wow. thanks seabeyond May 2013 #125
Now we don't have a rape culture BainsBane Apr 2013 #121
Thanks for this! I have been getting kind of depressed about this shit lately. smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #123
Man, you chicks really got your panties in a bunch now, don't ya? Bennyboy May 2013 #126
Another batch of noxious examples this week. nt redqueen May 2013 #127
I was booted from a thread on masculinity... Gravitycollapse May 2013 #128
This is not a meant to be reincarnation of Meta. IMO your comment doesn't belong here. MadrasT May 2013 #129
i just saw the Op. i am not gonna do the little dance for him, he is demanding of us. seabeyond May 2013 #130
Isn't there an approach to these claims of essentialism that doesn't just depend on consensus or ancianita Nov 2013 #149
Here is another example: boston bean May 2013 #131
LOL... my god they are such cowardly little shitpebbles! redqueen May 2013 #132
there is a newbie poster in there that does not sound progressive, nor they belong on du. seabeyond May 2013 #134
i think administration would tell us, this is all in our head. really, there are not these obsessed seabeyond May 2013 #133
Wow. ancianita Nov 2013 #150
TIL that women's boobs are analogous to cars at a car show. redqueen May 2013 #135
"Misandry" BainsBane May 2013 #136
This thread in GD is full of it. redqueen Jun 2013 #137
I'm a little bit confused about all the alerts I've seen here lately. Lunacee_2013 Jun 2013 #138
TIL: Only female parents influence their daughters' clothing choices. redqueen Jun 2013 #139
whores, sluts, hookers, streetwalkers... people are having a fucking field day in GD redqueen Jun 2013 #140
Some thinly-veiled misogyny in GD about Carlson and Hasslebeck NuclearDem Jul 2013 #141
First jury service on gender under the new rules was a success BainsBane Sep 2013 #142
Oh my god. What thought process could have decided it would be cool to post that OP? Squinch Sep 2013 #143
OMG - trigger warning?!? mzteris Mar 2014 #161
This shows how little women are valued BainsBane Sep 2013 #144
Thought you might be interested in this. BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #145
good idea. Sheri Nov 2013 #153
Welcome to HoF. Hope to see you around! boston bean Nov 2013 #155
thanks for the welcome. Sheri Nov 2013 #156
This message was self-deleted by its author seabeyond Nov 2013 #154
Yet another honest post hidden by MRA trolls. Gravitycollapse Dec 2013 #157
That this post of mine was alerted on BainsBane Mar 2014 #159
... redqueen Mar 2014 #160
holy smoley mercuryblues Apr 2014 #162
Just got jury duty intaglio May 2014 #163
In the Willow Smith posing with a guy on a bed thread intaglio May 2014 #164
If you want to counter sexism on DU, just go over to GD where whathehell May 2014 #165
I don't know whether I'm more disgusted or discouraged theHandpuppet May 2014 #166
Yep BainsBane Jun 2014 #167
what is the point of discussing sexism and misogyny among the people who experience it? ellenrr Jul 2014 #168
Jeezil Pete, what's with all the woman-bashing trolls lately? theHandpuppet Aug 2014 #169
In a thread about why some men rent prostitutes, redqueen Aug 2014 #170
Another person spouting MRA foolishness intaglio Aug 2014 #171
A DUer tells me feminists cause sex crimes because they repress sexuality. SunSeeker Sep 2014 #172
Any Assange thread... YoungDemCA Nov 2014 #173
Apparently "Sparkle Pussy" is an acceptable insult. redqueen Nov 2023 #174
It's fine to insult women by insinuating they're strippers redqueen Nov 2023 #175
I've never felt any misogyny on DU. MOMFUDSKI Nov 2023 #176
The b word is still acceptable to juries, and apparently so is calling a woman a "mattress" redqueen Nov 2023 #177

Texasgal

(17,029 posts)
1. Thank you BB.
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:02 PM
Apr 2013

Thank you for pining this. Thank you for being such a gracious host as well.

It's time for us to call this crap out. I am with you.

haikugal

(6,476 posts)
16. (((hugs)))
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:19 PM
Apr 2013
Back at ya...I've seen this kind of thing all too often on the web in political forums over the last year. Don't let em get you down.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
6. Oh Z_I_
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 09:50 PM
Apr 2013

I'm a bit shy when it comes to compliments like that, I don't see myself or anything I've done to be especially admirable. thank you, though, for the kind words and thoughts! It's Duers like you who we don't hear too much from, but seem to get it and support members like myself, who make it all the more worthwhile.

Please come in the group and join us more often.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
10. Hey Tien! Thank you for all of your support!
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:04 PM
Apr 2013

Your voice is important and a pick me up when we feel beat down!

Arcanetrance

(2,670 posts)
14. I'm glad to see you started this thread again personally I try to be an ally however imperfect
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:11 PM
Apr 2013

I hope the people who have been going alert crazy decide to piss off and let the group exist in peace

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
15. Hi-o Arcane!
Fri Apr 5, 2013, 10:19 PM
Apr 2013

Thanks for stopping in and showing your support.

Believe me there aint a one of us that are perfect in this group. Me probably having the most imperfection!

Your support means more than you know!

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
18. Wouldn't that be great
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 12:05 AM
Apr 2013

Imagine getting so bent out of shape over something they don't even have to read if they want to. I've heard some say take that post to HOF where we don't have to see it. Then they poke around HOF looking for stuff to be OUTRAGED about. Yeah, I used the O word.

Thanks for your support Arcanetrance.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
19. Have you seen the thread about Bernie Sanders
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 09:13 PM
Apr 2013

on Bill Maher's show, looking like he was "grabbing the tits" of Huff Po's "Millennial Bimbo"? A woman posted this drivel, and my alert got 5-1 to leave it.

The poster responded to my concerns by calling me "honey" and "silly."

Furthermore, have you noticed that Femen protests are "brave" and daring, but the protests of DU feminists are attempts to tell others how to protest, or are representative of puritanical "outrage" about women baring their breasts?

It seems to me that those who seek to diminish DU feminists are growing ever more derisive and divisive -- striving to be "right" or to have the last word. Sad that Skinner hasn't revised the TOS...

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
21. That was disappointing.
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 10:02 PM
Apr 2013

And yes, I agree that the attacks on DU feminists are getting more vehement and more frequent. It's kind of amusing because they are really starting to look like they are coming unhinged. The attacks are way out of proportion to the perceived offenses.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
22. The woman who attacked me just started
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 10:06 PM
Apr 2013

ANOTHER thread, calling me a "word nazi."

A jury voted 3-3 to keep it...

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
23. Boo hoo. Got called out for using "tits" and "bimbo".
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 10:12 PM
Apr 2013

Oh, the horror. Oh, the oppression. I can hardly stand it.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
24. Yeah, but
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 10:37 PM
Apr 2013

I'm a "word nazi" now, and I need to "get a life."

Is it me, or are the personal attacks increasing?

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
25. that's cause you keep your clothes on
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 11:31 PM
Apr 2013

everyone knows it's not real feminism if you are fully clothed.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
28. AND, 'everyone' knows
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 08:16 AM
Apr 2013

that all feminists on DU are shrill, puritanical, dried-up ol' prunes -- aka The Sisters of Perpetual Outrage!

(I forgot to mention the consistent use of absolutes herein below ...)

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
20. Will wonders never cease?
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 09:56 PM
Apr 2013

A jury voted to hide the last personal attack against me in the aforementioned thread. I have a list of twenty names that will go on my IL when I've finished my OP re: sexism on DU.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
26. I proposed a cease fire
Sat Apr 6, 2013, 11:33 PM
Apr 2013

with some of our friends and got banned for my efforts. However will I carry on?

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
27. Having witnessed
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 08:10 AM
Apr 2013

most of this brouhaha (I've bookmarked several OPs to reference in my own OP about sexism and misogyny on DU), I've noticed the following:

~specific DUers are being maligned and their posted comments misrepresented.

~an identifiable few routinely show up to post derisive, defensive screeds.

~most of these specific nabobs have little or no knowledge of feminism, sexism or patriarchy.

~attempts to recommend books or articles are ignored or ridiculed.

I would like to think that the members of DU are better educated, have superior critical thinking skills, and are capable of discussions without snarks, sarcasm or personal attacks. I'm finding that this is not so.

I've left once before because of the malicious and relentless sexism and misogyny (and what does his inaction say about Skinner?!?), but I intend to stay and counter the worst offenders -- diplomatically and supportively...at least until it becomes clear that all attempts are fruitless.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
32. I haven't written it yet.
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 06:14 PM
Apr 2013

Every time I think the vitriol has run its course, someone else posts a provocative OP. I will most assuredly let you and many others know.

(I thought the person who just ridiculed "today's women" had a feminist bent, but apparently I was mistaken...)

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
36. I was referring to the unbridled
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 07:44 PM
Apr 2013

fascination with Femen's breasts, which I'm sure will run its course soon, given Femen's sparse numbers and our species' short attention span.

I must say I find it disheartening that so many women are participating in the derision meted out to certain DUers, and the derogation of feminism.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
37. that's how it always goes
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 07:46 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Sun Apr 7, 2013, 08:27 PM - Edit history (1)

around here. A lot of women are invested in male approval, even when it's only virtual. Of course some simply disagree, as is their every right. Disagreement, however, doesn't explain the vitriol.

gaspee

(3,231 posts)
93. My theory
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:31 PM
Apr 2013

Is that deep down in that place within ourselves that most people don't acknowledge until they are silent and still and thoughtful, they *know* that they've chosen a path of repression and collaboration with the P and are fighting an inner battle with themselves to repress that knowledge. Or they could be totally shallow people with no deeper intellect or self-awareness and are only reactive. Could go either way...

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
97. my explanation is simpler
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:52 PM
Apr 2013

Some just don't like other women. They've been taught to seek male approval, and to do that they feel they need to turn on other women. I imagine everyone has encountered women like that offline.

gaspee

(3,231 posts)
101. I was going to go there
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013

But thought it might get too long and contemptuous. We all know women who say - I don't get along with other women. Or to men - I'm not like *those* women. I'm cool. I think we all know women like that. And again, I try to find it in me to empathize with them and think about the culture that drove them to that attitude rather than think of their collaboration with the P for their own gain.

I have nothing but disdain for the collaborators but I try to moderate my own thinking on it because I am self-aware enough to know that it's only my own rebelliousness and refusal to conform that makes me think that way. I make my life harder by refusing to conform to societal expectations of what female is - even in the small stuff. Giving an inch would make my life easier but living with myself harder.

I subject myself to needless ridicule by refusing to "do" female drag. Was subjected to it at lunch yesterday, actually.

My choice, with eyes wide open.

Luckily, I'm almost past the age where men (and women) think they have the right, no the duty, to comment on my attractiveness to the male of the species.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
103. i did it when i was younger. why would i want to be a part of the oppressed. then i grew up
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:24 PM
Apr 2013

got smart. and said fuck that. lol

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
107. That is what I find most perplexing
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 03:01 PM
Apr 2013

the women who openly collaborate in sexism. While I explain it on a surface level, I don't really understand it. I know it's the result of socialization. I've never been someone who doesn't like the company of other women, so I can't really understand where they are coming from. They generally justify their attacks by claiming the feminists they dislike don't like men, yet don't seem to have an awareness of how much they appear to dislike other women. I've even seen some defend rape apologists or actively engage in rape apology themselves.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
109. steinem quote i like.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:26 PM
Apr 2013

So it seems that women, just as other oppressed groups, often perpetuate the same prejudicial thoughts or behavior that they’ve experienced in a way to separate themselves from the oppressed group and be accepted as part of the positive majority. Competition is formed in order to be ingratiated to those in positions of power or those seen as possessing positive characteristics. And yet, Steinem explains, when an opportunity is created for the sharing of experiences, a sense of community emerges. A sense of sisterhood, if you will.

http://engenderingequality.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/sisterhood/

gaspee

(3,231 posts)
91. Some people deal with
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:27 PM
Apr 2013

oppression by becoming collaborators. It's nothing new and I try to feel sorry for them rather than hating them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Some of them don't even recognize their own oppression. Again, nothing new under the sun, right?

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
40. I'd like to see someone
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 08:24 PM
Apr 2013

draw this (and her other hidden OP) to Skinner's attention. Call it posting while feminist. I'm not the best messenger at the moment, so I don't feel I can do it myself.

Texasgal

(17,029 posts)
41. I don't know if that will even help
Sun Apr 7, 2013, 08:28 PM
Apr 2013

It seems that Skinner doesn't give a rats ass.

I say we just continue, post again and again.. screw them. Nobody is forcing anyone to come and read in HOF. This is obviously someone with an ax to grind.

I say fuck it, continue on!

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
42. this whole thread.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 02:47 PM
Apr 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022635878

a perfect example how femen is not about feminism flashing tits at Berlusconi and putin. flashing putin for the women that are working to have to endure hours of tit jokes from the men. both Berlusconi and putin sneering and ridiculing the women in dismissive and demeaning manner putting women in their place.

so fuckin effective.

then, the men that cheer femen, do not even consider the uncomfortable and hostile environment the rest of the women have to work in because of this one demonstrator. fuck the women, right?

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
43. Wow, yeah, I bet Putin surely changed his mind about whatever that day.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:17 PM
Apr 2013

And probably many of Putin's supporters were also convinced of whatever argument that young woman was making. With her boobs.


To see someone on DU say about Putin, "THIS is a leader!"


“We knew it was coming. You should thank the Ukrainian girls for helping you promote the fair,” (Putin) said.

Yeah, this method of 'protesting' is surely effective.
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
45. putin objectifying the woman, being the alpha male he is, giving femen what they want.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 03:26 PM
Apr 2013

and the rest of the day, the women continually without voice cause of tit jokes. must they join in on the tit jokes, laugh along with them, show their tits to be heard?

i get the initial reaction to funny.... of putin. but, .... he is a creep and ALL of meriks power of voice was suck out and given to putin in this one little flash.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
46. It just shows how ridiculous some persons reactions were to
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:03 PM
Apr 2013

women who felt this may backfire.

Well, hell it did back fire, and now it's all one big ole damn joke about boobies!

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
47. liten up. just a joke. ya... as it fuckin effects and impairs women, BUT
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 04:31 PM
Apr 2013

wtf

i really am liten'n up. i get the joke, probably beyond more than sees it at the surface. i do think it funny. and how in your fuckin face in less than a week.... funny.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
56. What is really stunning to me is the willful ignorance.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:30 PM
Apr 2013
'But see! People are talking about the protest now!'

Um, no. They're talking about Putin's supposedly amusing face. Or her boobs. No one is talking about the message, except in the effort to prove there actually is one.

Arcanetrance

(2,670 posts)
49. I'm in this thread conversing now and it amazes me how all these people
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:08 PM
Apr 2013

Can't see the sexism in front of their eyes or even coming out of their own headw

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
53. they saw it before. they see it now. and they will see it next time.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:20 PM
Apr 2013

purposely obtuse. or simply pretending otherwise.

Arcanetrance

(2,670 posts)
55. It annoys me as a male I'm not sure how you deal with it
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:28 PM
Apr 2013

I mean why do I have to be antisex and antinudity to think these protests aren't effective and do more harm than good

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
58. a lie. just another lie created. you have an issue with boobs. clearly, every post,
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:30 PM
Apr 2013

has defined what the issue is.

this is a lie. it is used to dismiss and silent the argument. god forbid any of these discussions actually have to do with what is being discussed.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
59. It's a tactic used to make objectors seem unhip, backward, and dare I say it...
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:32 PM
Apr 2013

..."conservative".

It's a lame smear tactic.

ancianita

(35,812 posts)
146. It's not that you don't have to be antisex, etc., to think they're not effective; it's just that
Wed Nov 6, 2013, 10:30 AM
Nov 2013

without supportive suggestions about what "effective" really is, that constructive thought simply feeds into the more contemptuous critics of that protest. Absent Big Lawyers, Guns and Money, it's just that oppressed groups have to protest in their own way.

Well-intentioned criticism stated from the relative security of a non-oppressed (officially, anyway) group members on how 'best' to do it would be more helpful. It doesn't mean you have to think a certain way; it just means that you could bear witness, give some moral support even if you don't agree with the means; or take your cues from women about how they want to go about getting what equalizes their institutional, financial or social status.

Women continue to try what has worked, sometimes not worked; and recently, women, along with Occupy, are bearing the brunt of militarized male led conservers of power.

Women tend to be ignored, whether dressed or not, when they protest...might as well go for high visibility on the world stage. The theater of it helped. Contempt and ridicule are short-sighted responses. Russian liberality about sex and gender will come the way it has in most other countries -- with jail, public punishment, etc. -- but eventually.

sigmasix

(794 posts)
83. in the dark
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:16 AM
Apr 2013

I dont keep up with news much so I know nothing about the femen "movement" and it's intellectual grounding. I understand that they bare thier breasts as part of the protest, but what are thier stated ideals? What are they trying to open people's hearts and minds to?
Do they have a rational for the use of nudity as part of thier attempts to garner attention and sympathyzers for thier movement?
This not an attempt at snarking or anything~ I'm genuinely interested.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
84. The best explanation I've seen
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:49 AM
Apr 2013

Was from someone who posted in this group arguing that FEMEN's point was to demonstrate that women's bodies shouldn't be a site for determining male honor. I can't remember the poster's name but he has an Ohio state flag as his avatar.

Muslim women have objected to FEMEN's focus on veiling and asserted that their clothing is not their business. FEMEN is anti-religion and anti-Islam in particular. Their messages tend to be very basic: "fuck the Qur'an, fuck dictatorship," etc. They marched into a women's conference and told the participants they talk too much. Many on this site outside of HOF love FEMEN, but I'm not sure they could tell you what the women are protesting.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
48. Oh the irony....
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:08 PM
Apr 2013

We're "spun up" and only created this thread to get other people to alert "for us". Or some such nonsense.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1114&pid=7720

Pure projection in an effort to diminish women and make them seem paranoid and hysterical and not empowered to handle their own shit.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
50. uh... I must be out of the loop
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:09 PM
Apr 2013

what are the new rules on alerting?

Meant so much to me, according to others, I guess I should know.

Can anyone fill me in?

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
57. Well shit.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:30 PM
Apr 2013

We both must have missed the last Convocation of the Sisterhood of Perpetual Outrage (where they apparently discussed these horribly restrictive new alerting rules and concocted this thinly veiled plot to get other people to alert for us, and then, um, somehow beamed you subliminal suggestions to create the thread for that purpose).

I hate it when I miss a Convocation. Ruins my whole week.

But I love it when people project so far that their conclusion actually leaves the solar system.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
60. i even brought the wine. i was the only that showed. hence, .... all my wine induced posts the
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:39 PM
Apr 2013

other night

meh

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
62. i will join you, i think. if pui means wine, lol
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:47 PM
Apr 2013


and happy bday to you.

you look excellent in that number

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
63. "Posting while Under the Influence"
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:54 PM
Apr 2013

I am partial to a nice Arrogant Bastard, myself.



"Liquid Arrogance"

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
64. I knew you were an arrogant bastard kinda gal...
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 06:03 PM
Apr 2013

See how funny and that is even withou the booze. I crack me up

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
54. it would be interesting for skinner to let us know what group gets the most alerts.
Mon Apr 8, 2013, 05:27 PM
Apr 2013

this is what is disgusting me. making shit up out of nothing. absolutely nothing.

the least he could do is act like it might possibly be a guess, or assumption, or result of, instead of a fact that is the purpose of this thread.

all about the dumb.

 

LanternWaste

(37,748 posts)
124. The usual suspects in that thread wonderfully illustrating an obtus
Mon Apr 29, 2013, 02:10 PM
Apr 2013

The usual suspects in that thread wonderfully illustrating an obtuse, trout-brained, sub-literate denial of the obvious.



"projection in an effort to diminish women and make them seem paranoid and hysterical..."
Between you and me, the only hysterical paranoia is embedded in that thread.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
67. Our "allies"
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 06:11 PM
Apr 2013

find great humor in the gang rape and suicide of a 17 year old girl. Tell me again how we are on the same side?

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
68. Only one of them posted.
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 07:22 PM
Apr 2013

The other allies stay out of a thread so they can get called to jury duty.

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
76. So disgusted by that.
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:49 PM
Apr 2013

Not a hint of compassion for the poor girl. Just an excuse to piss on the mean ole feminists. Really disturbing.

mercuryblues

(14,489 posts)
69. stuff like this gets a pass
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:15 PM
Apr 2013

At Mon Apr 1, 2013, 07:32 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Judge Questions Fairness Of Citigroup's Tits - Reuters/HufPo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022600924

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

YOUR COMMENTS:

really? why was "tit" put in the subject line, if not to offend.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Apr 1, 2013, 07:39 PM, and voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: I vote hide for false expectations
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: When did we become so easily offended...and I am a 60 year old woman. Good grief..
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Just suggest that they take the word "tits" out. OK?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Thank you.

This was allowed to stand. The only one that said to hide was because of false expectaions. Oh, and the admonishment to ask that they take the word out. Like someone who purposely does something to be offensive will all of a sudden see the light if I ask nice enough? WTF.WTF do "tits" have to do with a banking story? The word is not even in the actual title of the article. The poster purposely inserted it there.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
70. But then this gets a 5-1 Hide
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:47 PM
Apr 2013

At Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:03 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Because she's bitch that's why.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2643160

REASON FOR ALERT:

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Doubling-down on sexist slur (bitch).

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:39 PM, and the Jury voted 5-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No need for sexist language
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: So many children, so few adults on DU. If Maraya was born in 1969 they are old enough to know better.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch,
bitch, bitch, bitch, bitch,
she's a stupid bitch,
Kyle's mom's a bitch and she's
such a dirty bitch!

Not sure what to make of Juror #6.

Note: This was not my alert - I was on the jury.

Kurovski

(34,655 posts)
158. Juror#6 is quoting from a movie musical about censorship
Wed Jan 15, 2014, 07:57 PM
Jan 2014
http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/south-park-bigger-longer-and-uncut-1999


"...Key plot point: The deaths of Terrence and Phillip would be the seventh sign of the Apocalypse, triggering Armageddon. It's up to the South Park kids to save the world. All of this unfolds against an unending stream of satirical abuse, ethnic stereotyping, sexual vulgarity and pointed political commentary that alternates common sense with the truly and hurtfully offensive.

I laughed, as I have reported. Sometimes the laughter was liberating, as good laughter can be, and sometimes it was simply disbelieving: How could they get away with this? This is a season when the movies are hurtling themselves over the precipice of good taste. Every week brings its new surprises. "


MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
71. I have "tits" in my keyword trash list
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:49 PM
Apr 2013

Anyone who needs to use that in a thread title is just doing it for attention and this ensures that I will not be seeing it or feeding their need at all

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
74. this poster is having a good little hoot over this. what dinner skinner lecture whisp about?
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:35 PM
Apr 2013

surely we do not object to differing opinion?

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
72. Another good hide - 4-2
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:50 PM
Apr 2013

At Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:17 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

Seriously sick shit. Those rapists should be locked up for a decade or so. Fuck them.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2644122

REASON FOR ALERT:

YOUR COMMENTS:

gheez louise. Poster trying everything possible to blame females for the rape and resulting death. Blame the mothers? Really?

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Tue Apr 9, 2013, 08:29 PM, and voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: Yikes.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: But nothing. You seriously need to grow up. You sound like a woman hating neanderthal, someone that belongs on Free Republic. Your vendetta against people here at DU surrounding the issue of sexism and misogyny has completely clouded your judgment. In no way is your post appropriate. If you need to say these things so badly do it somewhere else but give this young lady the respect she deserves. Shame on you.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
75. loved jury 6. i was curious about this one. i do not even bother. assuming they have consent to
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:38 PM
Apr 2013

behave however they like.

i was glad to see this hide.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
79. I thought long and hard before I sent the alert
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 11:00 PM
Apr 2013

because I was afraid it might come back 0-6 to leave. It was a nice surprise for a change.


ETA: If this is sent to a jury please do not believe the compulsive Alerter who states that call outs are not allowed. They are allowed and are posted all of the time on DU3. Thank you.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
82. The one that amazed me
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 11:15 PM
Apr 2013

Is the hide on the snarky comment to me. It didn't occur to me to report that.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
77. That is a good one, and surprising
Tue Apr 9, 2013, 10:51 PM
Apr 2013

It's hard to keep track of conflicting arguments. Supposedly we hate sex and the naked body and that's why some of us aren't over the moon for FEMEN. But then it's a woman's responsibility to not dress provocatively in order to avoid being raped. Sl** is not a gendered term because it applies to men as well as women (despite the fact no one shames men that way). Then the fact a girl is shamed by her rapists is the fault of mothers because they must be just like feminists on this site. So the true guilty party is not rapists but women--that's the one commonality in all the tortured arguments.

Response to DURHAM D (Reply #72)

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
85. A good 6-0 Hide
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 09:40 AM
Apr 2013
And out of respect to those with learning disabilities, I won't repeat it.

Skinner and Earl need to get their shit together and make election season rules permanent or this site...

Start with the feminist clique on here that digests any material bashing a man through their unkempt cunts and regurgitating it through their loud, shrill mouths.

Then you should show nadin "I've had over 9000 careers" brzezinski the door, lowering the quality and credibility of the site with each bullshit thread.

Don't forget to move on to the hack89s and slackmasters of the site in the dungeon, constantly pushing their NRA propaganda. They are people I wouldn't mind disappearing into a black helicopter labeled DHS.

And for those constantly critical of the President, no matter how positive the news:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022646773

Profile here - http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=284540

ETA: Poster has been banned by EarlG -

Apr 10, 2013 Reason: Sexist.




boston bean

(36,186 posts)
87. about time.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 11:31 AM
Apr 2013

too bad, he had to knock them upside the head with the misogyny before finally deciding to recognize it.

This just goes back to our concerns not being taken seriously. And by them, I mean juries, Duers, and admin. I mean, we have all known about this creep for sometime. Yet he's been allowed to wreak havoc against feminists on DU for months. No one listening or trying to understand.

Response to boston bean (Original post)

Exultant Democracy

(6,594 posts)
88. Karl Rove does a jig each time we fan the flames of our internal discord. Divide and conquer,
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:02 PM
Apr 2013

turn the poor white against the poor blacks and the women against the men. Make the women think they have more in common is the Sandberg's and Clinton's of the world then they do with the guy down the block.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
90. I am not sure I understand your post.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:10 PM
Apr 2013

I was sort of following along until the "Sandberg/Clinton" part. Perhaps you are suggesting that the right wing disruptors on DU are part of a Rove Ratfucking plan.

gaspee

(3,231 posts)
94. I vote D in spite
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:43 PM
Apr 2013

Of the sexism on both the left and the right. If I had to make my choice on women's issues, I would never vote. Sexism on the left is just as common as sexism on the right, but usually (though not always) a kindler, gentler sexism. On the left, you don't get people coming out and saying that a woman belongs in the home under the control of her male owner (be it father, spouse or brother.) On the left, you just get attitudes that say the same thing while thinking they are enlightened. Not so virulent or in your face, but still harmful.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
95. I've heard many feminists say that, where sexism and misogyny are concerned,
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:56 PM
Apr 2013

Last edited Thu Apr 11, 2013, 02:24 PM - Edit history (1)

the difference between the left and the right is in how the boot should be positioned on our necks. (something like that anyway)

To one group, we're private property, to the other, public. Neither considers women full human beings because society as a whole doesn't consider women to be full human beings.

To see how endemic this is just consider rape, or revealing pictures.

In the context of rape, women are assumed to have given consent. We have to prove we said no. We have to prove we didn't want it. It is assumed that, as a default position, we wanted it. Public property.

In the context of revealing pictures, women are expected to take all the blame when such pictures are distributed. Whether they're given or stolen, the idea that they will/should be shared is taken as a given. It is assumed that women should simply accept the blame for even having been photographed that way, or taking such photographs. Contrast that with someone telling a secret. If I tell you a secret, and you tell someone else, does anyone else chide me for telling secrets? And tell me I could expect no different? No. All the blame and shame goes on the person who betrayed my confidence.

But when it comes to the idea of women's bodies, different rules come into play. Whether our physical selves, or simply images, the default setting is: public property. (And this also plays in the abortion 'debate' - our bodies are treated like a policy position. Our very healthcare is a chit to be debated, restricted, and bargained with.)

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
99. To one group, we're private property, to the other, public.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 01:57 PM
Apr 2013

love it. and it perfectly explains it. thanks

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
105. I should give a hat tip to the many radical feminists
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:56 PM
Apr 2013

who have clarified and crystallized this point over the years.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
111. yeh, that's a pointy one for sure.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 07:03 PM
Apr 2013

fits so well. wow.

Public property: 'Liberal' men think they should be able to fuck freely in front of an ice cream store, if you disagree and think that private things like that should be kept private, well then you are a dried up prudeprune that hates sex. That women should be hung up on meat hooks so the men can walk by and choose like they would at a butchers. After all, that is the ultimate in 'freedumbs' isn't it? And the women, they like it, don't be silly.

Private property: The chattel days where men decide what freedoms women should have. This is happening right now, back to the stone age for the RW and what they are doing to women.

gaspee

(3,231 posts)
100. Pretty much exactly
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:01 PM
Apr 2013

And men on the left think they are doing a favor by being "allies." And expect a cookie for it. Like it's so big of them. Fuck that. Be an ally in deed and action - like treating women as full human beings. Adjusting language when requested. So simple but so far beyond the apparent mainstream that it receives violent reaction on a supposed left board.

Men on the left, IMO, killed the feminist movement of the 60's/70's with the 80's backlash. It wasn't just conservatives who voted for Ronnie Raygun and Thatcher and their ilk. That was the people who considered themselves liberals who decided the minorities and women just wanted *too* much. I guess it was too much to ask of them to think of their partners as people and equals and not as another minority group wanting a "handout" or "special treatment." They wanted all the benefit of women's empowerment (think sex) without any of the change in thinking that comes along with that. Along with women owning their own bodies and freely choosing their sexual partners came the expectation that women wouldn't be punished for that. But men on the left are just as invested in slut shaming and controlling women's actions through collective threats of sexual violence. Because it's all still about men.

I consider myself a radical feminist. Much too radical for many. But what's so radical about that?

Why I consider myself a radical feminist: I would like society to move beyond the binary thinking of male vs female and think of human. But to get to that point, there's a lot of privilege that needs to be discarded. But to even point out privilege is to be "radical" - just look at the reaction to wholly mainstream feminist thought that gets posted here. I guess privilege, to paraphrase, will have to be ripped from their cold, dead hands.

And before anyone alerts, dead from the passage of time, not anything else. It's going to take the dying off of the Archie Bunker types WHILE AT THE SAME TIME changing the thought patterns of society.

The way to change the thought pattern of the younger generation is to be loud and to change the way people think. And that includes language. Language is thought. And if that's through those of us on the radical fringes being vilified and hated by those refusing to change, all the while, providing a new way of thinking to those coming up - well, that's the way it will have to be.

Just think back on what was acceptable even 20 years ago in other areas - the way language has changed alone will turn into change in ways of thinking. In ways of being.

So when someone says - hey, the President pointing out someone's appearance is not professional. Well, maybe someone watching and reading hadn't though about it, but now, giving it some thought, realizes - yeah - only women are subjected to that. Now, what they may not get is that it's because women's only value used to be (and still to some extent does) reside in her attractiveness to men, and not in herself. And that is changing . But to point out her attractiveness, or lack thereof, is unprofessional because of that... I think that leads to change.

So I accept the charge of radical and I will continue to point things out because the status quo only changes when we MAKE it.

Sorry to go off on a riff - just caught my attention



 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
102. and THIS is why i love your voice and wanted to give you a shout out in the thread that was locked.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:18 PM
Apr 2013

this should be its own OP. excellent points all the way thru. and your TONE even sounded so reasonable, mellow, laid back and gentle'ish, lol.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
106. Please don't ever apologize for going off on riffs like that.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 02:57 PM
Apr 2013

I love that riff.

And yes, radical feminists are getting fed up with being sidelined, marginalized, demonized, etc. There's a reason that shit goes on, and we are saying ENOUGH.

Shivering Jemmy

(900 posts)
110. Interesting point about presumed consent.
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 06:30 PM
Apr 2013

Is there a tension between systemic presumption of innocence and justice for victims of rape?

If so what is the solution do you think?

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
113. False dichotomy.
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 01:47 PM
Apr 2013

The conflict is not between the presumption of innocence and justice for rape.

The conflict is between the way these crimes against women are treated vs. the way almost every other crime (if not every single one) is treated.

Shivering Jemmy

(900 posts)
115. I hear what you are saying
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 03:56 PM
Apr 2013

So you're talking about the social reaction to claims of "I just got robbed" vs. "I just got raped." In the former case social bias presumes that the claimant is telling the truth (regardless of legal status) while in the latter not so much. Right?

I wasn't clear on your context and your reply makes a lot of sense.

ancianita

(35,812 posts)
147. Yes, yes, yes...and for reasons that have now disappeared from most males' consciousness.
Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:03 AM
Nov 2013

The basis of property -- control and manhood -- is an historically male dominated concept.

That's why I think it's important that we start suggesting readings for those who fall into these presumptuous thought traps. These days, the history of half the planet -- the recovery of which is ongoing -- is largely unknown to large numbers of them.

I like to assume that male language isn't consciously sexist -- since there are no consequences for it, most of the time -- simply group reinforced; and that, if reasoned with, they come around to understand better the hidden thought structures that allow them or their brothers their careless thinking-turned-policy.



redqueen

(115,096 posts)
151. I like to think so, too.
Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:51 PM
Nov 2013

But we have been trying to reason with the people on this site for years, and it's like talking to a brick wall.

I now think there's only time to talk to people who haven't enthusiastically championed patriarchal values (and there are a SHIT TON of people here who are deeply committed to championing those values).

ancianita

(35,812 posts)
152. One thing I learned teaching hs, you need to realize that your influence ripples across people
Wed Nov 6, 2013, 12:57 PM
Nov 2013

and time. You've been here and can see change or the lack of better than I. But I've learned that there's also the probability that we hardly see the results of our efforts immediately, and that they go off more than they come back in big and small ways. Many men's hearts and minds are changing, and thus there's less unconscious, self-indulgent groupthink kicking around. But we have no real way of measuring that, do we, except over time. I'm going to keep paying attention now.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
108. good for you. we were just called the c word today, and shrills. so we are not experiencing du
Wed Apr 10, 2013, 04:16 PM
Apr 2013

the same as you are.

but, i am glad it is a safe place for you.

ismnotwasm

(41,916 posts)
112. I trashed two threads last night
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 01:36 PM
Apr 2013

One, the OP openly admitted intentionally starting a flame bait thread using rape stats--a rehash of the same old shit of attempting to minimize the prevalence and impact of rape.

The other a particularly disgusting use of the disabled to 'discuss' sex workers. I have to say that last one troubled me--these things usually don't--it could have been a great topic, a much needed discussion on the ways the disabled are perceived. What troubled me was the blithe unconcern for the disabled. As health care worker, I felt the ignorance and unconcern was also dangerous, as disability comes in many forms and in some cases would need medical advice prior to engaging in any type of sex much less procuring the 'expertise' of a sex worker. I didn't get into that though.

My point(s) were, even though the article featured a female client, sex workers are overwhelmingly female, the disabled are not exactly rolling in funds required for the services of a 'sexologist', and sex workers themselves work in a dangerous circumstances.

One the OP gave me an strong enough indication that the thread was sexist flame bait, I trashed it.

I don't mind reasonable discussions, I don't expect to be agreed with all the time, but I dislike disingenuous posts that are little more than an attempt at a cover for rape apologist, and a denial of what the life of an average worker is really like.


redqueen

(115,096 posts)
114. The endless flogging of one set of statistics about rape is enough reason to ignore.
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 02:35 PM
Apr 2013

I'm glad the men (and it is almost always men) are so comforted by those statistics.

I've had my experiences, and I have two daughters. I'm not about to shut up about rape.


As for the other, as soon as someone describes sex with another person as a "need", you know it's pointless to attempt reasoned discussion.

And regardless, many disabled people are able to find partners without paying to use them as masturbatory aids, so this portrayal of them as uniquely unlovable is just ugly.

There are lots of people who for one reason or another have trouble finding a romantic partner. The issue isn't helping the disabled, its legitimizing the idea that buying sex is acceptable.

And demagoguing the issue by conflating a desire for intimacy (genuinely understandable) with a desire to have someone else facilitate an orgasm for you (LOL) is, IMO, sick.

ismnotwasm

(41,916 posts)
117. I read another view of the issue
Thu Apr 11, 2013, 06:54 PM
Apr 2013

That actually discusses that root problem, which is HOW those who aren't within 'abled' standards are perceived as 'non-sexual' therefore undesirable. Again, part of patriartical control of sexuality and desirability. which is, in essence sexual repression. Aside from fetishizing, who is addressing that?

I did read an article that addressed a couple of my medical concerns, as autonomic dysreflexia in quads, with 'trained sex workers'--quite expensive, and male- gendered oriented.

Not a solution. The disabled are a vulnerable population often in poverty.

To see the issue used that way was extemely sick.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
122. Hardly anyone is addressing that.
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 02:33 PM
Apr 2013

Where is the money to be made?

It really is sick and disgusting that people would demagogue the issue using disabled people. I know many in loving relationships. But hey, why bother ourselves with reality where there's an agenda to be pushed?

I wish more people would think about why some work so hard not to see the agenda behind dumbassery like this. Did you see the article about human trafficking in Germany? Where prostitution is legal? Which is supposed to magically make human trafficking less of an issue? Except in reality it doesn't? It's sad that liberals have such an enormous blind spot where this shit is concerned. Billions of dollars and organized crime just kind just fade into the background.

Response to boston bean (Original post)

hlthe2b

(101,699 posts)
120. A very revealing juror comment....
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 09:19 AM
Apr 2013

The jury decision to hide this post 4:2 was reassuring, but this one juror comment-- justifying their decision not to hide-- certainly underscores our concerns regarding what message is being received by some posters. I'm just going to post that one comment:

At Sat Apr 13, 2013, 07:00 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Beaver Street.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2663038

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:
Rude, disruptive, sexist.

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Apr 13, 2013, 07:05 AM, and the Jury voted 4-2 to HIDE IT.


Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Yes, a little juvenile, but typically this is tolerated on DU. Skinner himself has been known to yuck it up over the word "MILF".


 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
125. isnt that interesting. and yes, i have heard this excuse used for sexist slurs. but wow. thanks
Thu May 9, 2013, 09:28 PM
May 2013

for the post.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
121. Now we don't have a rape culture
Sat Apr 13, 2013, 11:19 AM
Apr 2013

If women were subject to the same level of violence as the Congo, then there might be a problem.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
123. Thanks for this! I have been getting kind of depressed about this shit lately.
Wed Apr 17, 2013, 09:34 PM
Apr 2013

I am happy for the support, sometimes I don't comment because I am so disheartened I can't think of anything to say. But I really appreciate all of you who come on here and fight for us. Thank you!

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
128. I was booted from a thread on masculinity...
Fri May 10, 2013, 08:06 PM
May 2013

Supposedly by a troll with several zombie accounts.

I said that I didn't think people should talk about subjects for which they have little or no formal education or experience. This was specifically against someone who claimed to know that sexual identity and gender identity were innate.

Furthermore, I was ganged up on for saying that masculinity was inherently violent. Which it is. The masculine ethos is one of aggression and physical confrontation as well as the repression of any sort of loving or vulnerable emotional displays.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
129. This is not a meant to be reincarnation of Meta. IMO your comment doesn't belong here.
Sat May 11, 2013, 08:06 AM
May 2013

This is a "Thread to discuss sexism and misogyny you encounter on DU".

Your comment is not really discussing sexism or misogyny encountered on DU.

In some way, your comment may actually be perpetuating sexism on DU, because without quite a lot of exposition, saying "masculinity is inherently violent" can be seem to be a sexist statement.

If someone stated that "femininity is inherently warm and nurturing" I would go through the fucking roof with smoke coming out of my ears.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
130. i just saw the Op. i am not gonna do the little dance for him, he is demanding of us.
Sat May 11, 2013, 10:55 AM
May 2013

how many people, including those that will jump on that OP have stated aggression is inherently male.

i do not agree. i argue. and i know you do, too.

but, i am not playing bonobos game.

ancianita

(35,812 posts)
149. Isn't there an approach to these claims of essentialism that doesn't just depend on consensus or
Wed Nov 6, 2013, 11:20 AM
Nov 2013

the stance of "personal correction?"

For instance, can't we just provide research, or book titles (with exerpts, even) that show how essentialist claims of both sexes are false? Can't we provide some applications of those sources out in the world that don't appear as anomalies?

It seems that the "inherent" arguments get too personal too fast, and a quick, fact/authority-based apprising of that argument with evidence that squashes it might go a long way toward changing male minds in DU.

It seems like women here in the History of Feminism would do that as a first response. Then, if there's another alert-worthy post, go for it.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
131. Here is another example:
Sat May 11, 2013, 11:35 AM
May 2013
OhAndOneMoreThing (1 post)

145. The subspecies of human known as "Progressive Whinyassus" never does either.

Last edited Sat May 11, 2013, 11:23 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

The extremists that are allowed a voice here on this site are dragging it down.

HiPointDem, redqueen, MotherPetrie, Fire Walk With Me, seabeyond, brentspeak, MannyGoldstein, and cali are the types of people that Skinner should purge from this site once and for all. They aren't worth the cost of the paper their entitlements are printed on if it were to be used to wipe several obese women's fat (just to hear some shrieking from the "History of Feminism&quot asses.

You are petulant children that are lucky enough the President even considers you every now and then, but in reality you aren't worth enough to chew the gum stuck to his shoe.

P.S. Don't bother trying to link this account to my main account. I've never logged onto DU from this location, as I am out of town. Just know that there are several of us that discuss that list of cretins in length in private messages.


Obviously,this is an active Duer, that set up a sock to spout this bs.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
132. LOL... my god they are such cowardly little shitpebbles!
Sat May 11, 2013, 11:56 AM
May 2013


Here's another couple of snippets from a glaring example, which was smartly deleted, but only after he had his ass handed to him repeatedly. I hope he understands now how fucked up his comment actually was.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2825212
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
134. there is a newbie poster in there that does not sound progressive, nor they belong on du.
Sat May 11, 2013, 12:13 PM
May 2013

i didnt read the thread, until you provided the link.

all that makes me a bit sick. and very sad.

i am really not in a place right now, where i see so clearly how men feel about women.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
133. i think administration would tell us, this is all in our head. really, there are not these obsessed
Sat May 11, 2013, 12:03 PM
May 2013

women hating men on du causing us problems.

hmmm.

lol

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
135. TIL that women's boobs are analogous to cars at a car show.
Wed May 15, 2013, 06:24 PM
May 2013

And that by "displaying" said boobs, people are inviting others to have an opinion about them.

This bit of genius level insight was of course cloaked in 'I'm talking about this, not that!' disingenuousness, but when an OP is about that, then.. well, yeah.

And as anyone with an IQ above 50 knows, we all get to have opinions. And therefore that the point is about something besides simply the fact that men have opinions about boobies.

But by pretending you're too stupid to understand such incredibly simple context, you can get away with all kinds of dishonest bullshit. Which comes as a shock to absolutely no one, of course.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
136. "Misandry"
Tue May 28, 2013, 01:23 AM
May 2013

Apparently misandry now means insisting women have a right to decide who they have sex with. If a woman argues no means no, she's a misandrist, since that gets in the way of the man's right to have sex with whomever he wants whenever he wants. Prosecuting men for rape is also misandry because it provides "special protections" for rape victims. When rapists are male, they need protection from women who think they have the right to choose who they want to have sex with.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
137. This thread in GD is full of it.
Sun Jun 16, 2013, 12:32 PM
Jun 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023009387

And I'm really starting to wonder how long before enough people notice, so that acceptance of this shit starts to change.

Lunacee_2013

(529 posts)
138. I'm a little bit confused about all the alerts I've seen here lately.
Tue Jun 18, 2013, 09:10 PM
Jun 2013

I read some of the threads in the men's group (I don't post anything there, I just read, it feels too much like a boy's club and I feel like I shouldn't even be reading it) and they're complaining about the same thing. Alerts on posts that don't break the rules and trolling. Is there some kind of alert war going on?

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
139. TIL: Only female parents influence their daughters' clothing choices.
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 04:37 PM
Jun 2013

Also, if women complain about people who engage in blaming rape victims for being raped, that's sexist.

Also, girls/women who get drunk have to accept at least some responsibility for being raped.


redqueen

(115,096 posts)
140. whores, sluts, hookers, streetwalkers... people are having a fucking field day in GD
Fri Jun 21, 2013, 09:20 PM
Jun 2013

And almost no one at all is saying jack fucking shit about it.

Time for a long fucking break from this misogyny loving forum.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
141. Some thinly-veiled misogyny in GD about Carlson and Hasslebeck
Wed Jul 10, 2013, 11:47 PM
Jul 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023220832

I don't really like either of them myself, but is attacking their appearance really necessary?

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
142. First jury service on gender under the new rules was a success
Thu Sep 26, 2013, 02:53 AM
Sep 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018486916

Can we hope this bodes for things to come? Might people take jury service more seriously under this new framework?

Squinch

(50,773 posts)
143. Oh my god. What thought process could have decided it would be cool to post that OP?
Sat Sep 28, 2013, 03:57 PM
Sep 2013

Even if it's just blatant flame bait, it's pretty disturbed. A child's toy, no less.

Ugh.

mzteris

(16,232 posts)
161. OMG - trigger warning?!?
Sun Mar 23, 2014, 08:22 PM
Mar 2014

I clicked on your link. Not sure what I was going to see. Saw a link to the Locked post and stupidly clicked. I nearly hyperventilated before I could figure out how to get it off my screen.

Aren't threads locked for a freaking reason?!?!? WHY are they still VIEWABLE??? Doesn't do much to zap them if they're still there.

What sick fk came up with that anyway? And - well - I could look no further, but please tell me whoever the hell posted it was banned for life. And reported to some authority somewhere as a potential offender. (Of course, I'll probably get called "hysterical" by somebody on DU for my post.)

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
144. This shows how little women are valued
Mon Sep 30, 2013, 08:58 PM
Sep 2013

At Mon Sep 30, 2013, 08:50 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

He is the teabaggers' bitch.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3755013

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS:

It is insulting to women to use sexist words on this site.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Mon Sep 30, 2013, 08:56 PM, and voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT ALONE.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I understand the emotion, but he is the tea party's bitch in that he is the breeder of their ideas.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: A bitch is a female dog, not a human being.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given

Sheri

(310 posts)
156. thanks for the welcome.
Wed Nov 20, 2013, 01:18 PM
Nov 2013

i'm a major lurker, but i love this group, and i hope i can contribute more.

Response to boston bean (Original post)

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
157. Yet another honest post hidden by MRA trolls.
Fri Dec 27, 2013, 01:58 AM
Dec 2013

It seems whatever they post is immune. But whatever we post is hidden immediately.

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: One of your posts has been hidden by a DU Jury
Mail Message
At Thu Dec 26, 2013, 11:08 PM, an alert was sent on the following post:

Women can't discuss feminism on DU because it's infested with pigs.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4234117

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Enough already! Stop this please jurors. Read the SOP.

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Dec 26, 2013, 11:21 PM, and voted 6-0 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: This one's marginal to me, on the edge of excessive.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: This has indeed gone too far. Gravitycollapse has been spouting insults with impunity for far too long. Hide this.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: Voting to hide because I believe this person to be a repeat troll.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: We lately have seen quite a flurry
Of posts full of gender-based fury
But if this one's not hidden,
Then DU's over-ridden
With folks who should steer clear of juries.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Rules, on DU, you cannot refer to other
members as pigs. It won't fly. Hide.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
159. That this post of mine was alerted on
Wed Mar 5, 2014, 11:20 PM
Mar 2014

and got two votes to hide seems a pretty clear case of not only sexism but seeking to silence efforts to point out endemic sexism.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4614033

mercuryblues

(14,489 posts)
162. holy smoley
Mon Apr 7, 2014, 11:27 AM
Apr 2014

that is obnoxious. the poster knows all of that in less than 500 posts. seems fishy that a new member can assume so much about another poster.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
163. Just got jury duty
Fri May 2, 2014, 03:45 PM
May 2014

about this post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4899598

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

See replies 15 & 26 - "a situation where you can be accused of rape" is SO wide ranging INCLUDING false accusations (believe it or not) that this post is insensitive, over-the-top victim-blaming.

I'm sorry, you gotta call this what it is, just as bad as "don't get put in a situation where you can be raped."

There should be no tolerance for victim-blaming on DU.

Result 5-2 leave it,

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
164. In the Willow Smith posing with a guy on a bed thread
Thu May 8, 2014, 05:08 AM
May 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024921775

There is a lovely example of an MRA abuse happy to enable abuse. My reply to his post which was titled Uhm, if they aren't jealous rageaholics who don't trust their spouse, why would... is below. If you look at his post there is a minor trigger warning

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4924056

whathehell

(28,968 posts)
165. If you want to counter sexism on DU, just go over to GD where
Fri May 16, 2014, 09:08 AM
May 2014

poster Dipsy Doodle is serving up the word "cunt" for laughs. I tried to educate

him on the differences between the use of that word in the UK and the US,

but he doesn't seem interested. I alerted on him. I'd appreciate it if you or anyone on HOF

could call him out. Thanks.

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
166. I don't know whether I'm more disgusted or discouraged
Sun May 25, 2014, 02:40 PM
May 2014

There's more blatant, in-your-face misogyny and homophobia on DU than I can EVER recall in my 12 years here. Threads worthy of the worst of FR which should have been immediately deleted, yet the posts being alerted on and deleted are those of women who've had the audacity to take umbrage at crap being thrown in their faces.

DU has never been what I would consider "woman friendly" but this situation has gone 'round the bend and I no longer have any faith in the jury system.

BainsBane

(53,001 posts)
167. Yep
Thu Jun 19, 2014, 09:13 PM
Jun 2014

That is exactly how it is. We even had an OP sympathizing with a fucking mass murderer's overt and homicidal misogyny.

ellenrr

(3,864 posts)
168. what is the point of discussing sexism and misogyny among the people who experience it?
Sat Jul 12, 2014, 05:39 AM
Jul 2014

we all know it exists. it's not like we need proof.
why not do something about it, instead of talking about it in a group which is shut off from the very people who need to know about it?

(sincere questions, not being rhetorical)

theHandpuppet

(19,964 posts)
169. Jeezil Pete, what's with all the woman-bashing trolls lately?
Mon Aug 4, 2014, 09:42 PM
Aug 2014

Sheesh, you can't even post a thread to HoF anymore without having to swat away the trolls who have apparently signed up just to descend on this forum. This is getting ridiculous.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
170. In a thread about why some men rent prostitutes,
Sat Aug 23, 2014, 10:31 AM
Aug 2014

several people have thrown out the answer that 'they're paying them to go away afterward'

Only one person called out that reasoning as misogynistic.


Several people have posited that all women are prostitutes, and the only difference is the price.

No one called these comments out, but I did call a couple out out this morning.


There's more in there. Of course. I thought maybe more people would see it and call it out overnight. Of course that didn't happen.

Misogyny isn't an issue on this site, don'tchaknow?

SunSeeker

(51,367 posts)
172. A DUer tells me feminists cause sex crimes because they repress sexuality.
Mon Sep 8, 2014, 02:13 AM
Sep 2014

Last edited Mon Sep 8, 2014, 02:46 AM - Edit history (1)

Another tells me that the only reason feminists object to a very degrading, pornographic depiction of Spiderwoman on a comic cover is because they don't want men enjoying the female form.

Both in one sexism-laden thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=213190

Neither were hidden.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
174. Apparently "Sparkle Pussy" is an acceptable insult.
Wed Nov 8, 2023, 05:50 PM
Nov 2023

Last edited Wed Nov 8, 2023, 07:30 PM - Edit history (1)

Why is it like this almost everywhere

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
175. It's fine to insult women by insinuating they're strippers
Fri Nov 10, 2023, 03:23 PM
Nov 2023

Or saying they should bend over and jiggle

As long as it's a right wing woman, misogynistic insults are allowed on du

MOMFUDSKI

(5,186 posts)
176. I've never felt any misogyny on DU.
Fri Nov 10, 2023, 03:50 PM
Nov 2023

Am totally comfortable letting it all hang out regarding liberal women’s’ typical positions on the world. I love it here.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
177. The b word is still acceptable to juries, and apparently so is calling a woman a "mattress"
Thu Nov 30, 2023, 02:23 PM
Nov 2023

Also, "tramp stamp" is not getting any pushback. I didn't bother alerting on that one.

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