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ismnotwasm

(41,968 posts)
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:23 PM Jun 2014

The Sexist Pseudoscience of Pick-Up Artists: The Dangers of “Alpha Male” Thinking

Very interesting article--needs a trigger warning for the comments at the beginning from PUAHate, but the reading gets better as you go along.

lliot Rodger, the Isla Vista shooter, was a member of the PUAHate forum. It was nominally a place for those who felt conned by the pick-up artist promise, and many of its members were rightfully suspicious of what they had come to see as snake oil. Yet PUAHate.com is now a dead link because many of its members reacted the other way—they blamed the women for not doing as they should, instead of the broken models of human interaction that they paid money for. They blamed women with a bile that gave Elliot Rodger a sense of belonging.

A "perfect gentleman," Rodger was driven by an immense sense of entitlement, and yet the surprising thing about his women-hating autobiographical manifesto is how little time he ever spends with any of them. Again and again he sets out to find a girlfriend by going to a local mall or park, sitting on a bench, and waiting. Apart from the female counselor his parents pay to spend an afternoon with him, he never has a full conversation with a woman; he goes to a party, and stands in the corner, waiting for someone to talk to him first. His expectation was such that he felt his designer clothes, his BMW, even his bone structure marked him out as "a descendent of British aristocracy," a person who women should be uncontrollably attracted to for his obvious social value. He was, as he described himself in his final video, "the superior one, the true alpha male," and every woman in the world was thus in violation of his natural rights for ignoring him.

This attitude might seem alien to pick-up artists—by now, a recognisable pop culture stereotype, the subject of reality TV shows and bestselling books—and to those inside the community it might seem unfair to link them to a mass shooter. Pick-up artists, after all, are all about structuring as many opportunities to meet and seduce women as possible, in every kind of possible social situation. Yet it's not a coincidence that PUAHate was the first and only place where Rodger felt as if he was among people capable of understanding him.

Pick-up artists sell an ideology about women, and an odd one at that—cod evolutionary psychology and pop anthropology mashed together into a kind of brute forced seduction, or a quantified romance that approaches women like mechanical devices that can be debugged and reprogrammed. It takes the phrase “press her buttons” too literally, and assumes there’s a de facto biological Konami code that any man can use on any woman. Not for nothing has Neil Strauss, author of The Game, called it “the revenge of the nerds.”


http://www.newrepublic.com/article/118036/sexist-pseudoscience-alpha-male-pick-artists
14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Sexist Pseudoscience of Pick-Up Artists: The Dangers of “Alpha Male” Thinking (Original Post) ismnotwasm Jun 2014 OP
PUA's v. the PUA haters bluestateguy Jun 2014 #1
"Kind of like Iraq v. Iran in the 80's." nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #6
Definitely worth reading Stargazer09 Jun 2014 #2
Indeed. But the virulent haters are still a minority, in Western societies at least. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #7
Doesn't this just say it all about those who spew about "alpha males" redqueen Jun 2014 #3
Yup ismnotwasm Jun 2014 #4
They really are. redqueen Jun 2014 #5
Last time I checked Stargazer09 Jun 2014 #10
And to think that I, as a lonely, frustrated young man, could've easily fallen into this bullshit... nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #8
I can't speak for all women Stargazer09 Jun 2014 #9
It's okay. Just part of being human, really. nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #12
Those guys are a bunch of weirdos IronLionZion Jun 2014 #11
As Dave Futrelle noted, most of these guys are perfectly average-looking - hardly "repulsive" nomorenomore08 Jun 2014 #13
Oh god. Not pop-pseudoscience (especially when it's for profit)... <__< chrisa Jun 2014 #14

bluestateguy

(44,173 posts)
1. PUA's v. the PUA haters
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:36 PM
Jun 2014

Goes to show you that sometimes the enemy of your enemy is... still your enemy.

Kind of like Iraq v. Iran in the 80's.

Stargazer09

(2,132 posts)
2. Definitely worth reading
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 12:42 PM
Jun 2014

Damn, our society seems to be sliding backwards, though.

I know that anti-woman hate has always existed, but it seems to be growing now that the internet makes it easy for like-minded males to find other fellows to validate their feelings.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
7. Indeed. But the virulent haters are still a minority, in Western societies at least.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:07 PM
Jun 2014

And they need to be shown this clearly and loudly.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
3. Doesn't this just say it all about those who spew about "alpha males"
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 01:08 PM
Jun 2014


Even when not explicitly citing this evolutionary psychology, most other pick-up artists will implicitly accept it by reference to concepts like “alpha behavior.” Through concentration, meditation and training any man can shed his earthly beta skin and attain alpha enlightenment, like a horny Bodhisattva—motivated not by empathy for all living things, but a hard-on.

Stargazer09

(2,132 posts)
10. Last time I checked
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:22 PM
Jun 2014

I thought humans had evolved past the level of apes. I guess not all of the males of our species have received the message.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
8. And to think that I, as a lonely, frustrated young man, could've easily fallen into this bullshit...
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:13 PM
Jun 2014

That I didn't is probably a "there but for the grace of God" sort of thing.

Granted, I'm still a young man, but I certainly know better now.

Stargazer09

(2,132 posts)
9. I can't speak for all women
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:20 PM
Jun 2014

But I am very thankful that you have not fallen in with those groups.

I'm sorry to hear about your loneliness and frustration, though.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
12. It's okay. Just part of being human, really.
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:20 PM
Jun 2014

I'm certainly not going to make some grand opera of angst out of it, like these "incel" types tend to do.

IronLionZion

(45,380 posts)
11. Those guys are a bunch of weirdos
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 09:37 PM
Jun 2014

I've read some of the forums and the guys sound like they live in a fantasy world yet still manage to feel bitter and angry all the time. They don't seem happy or successful much. What's really telling is if you read some of the older guys on there complain about how they're resigned to just die alone because no one will fall for their bullshit anymore.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
13. As Dave Futrelle noted, most of these guys are perfectly average-looking - hardly "repulsive"
Sat Jun 7, 2014, 10:37 PM
Jun 2014

in appearance, contrary to what they seem to believe. My guess is that, most likely, they were bullied from an early age and their self-esteem never recovered. And the saddest part is that their every action reinforces this, and since they lack sufficient self-awareness they lash out at others, whether it be more "successful" men or, worse, the entire female gender - whom they tend to view as a shallow, capricious, not-quite-human monolith.

I myself haven't exactly been immune to that self-created hell, but at least I recognize it for what it is.

chrisa

(4,524 posts)
14. Oh god. Not pop-pseudoscience (especially when it's for profit)... <__<
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 10:47 AM
Jun 2014

"Pickup Artists" are laughably moronic in the sense that they take an extremely simple concept (women like guys who they can connect with in some way) and wrap it in a cloak of pseudoscience and one-dimensional thinking (women as easily-led objects).

This garbage reminds me of stuff like "The Secret," where the main line of thinking associated with the philosophy is a moronic non-sequitur. Furthermore, there's nothing more irritating than watching people becoming armchair scientists in an area that doesn't call for a scientific analysis.

"Pickup Artist" 'science' is in fact contrived garbage that is as much of a sales product as "The Secret" is. Both throw phony jargon out to give the appearance of scientific thinking ('law of attraction' vs. 'Alpha'). None of it is real science (or even real, in my opinion).

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