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redqueen

(115,096 posts)
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 06:31 PM Jun 2014

"Consensual sex" is just sex.

To say "consensual sex" implies that there is such a thing as "non consensual sex", which there isn’t. That’s rape. That is what it needs to be called. There is only sex or rape. Do not teach people that rape is just another type of sex. They are two very separate events. You wouldn’t say "breathing swimming" and "non breathing swimming", you say swimming and drowning.

http://socialnetworkhell.tumblr.com/post/88183086565/consensual-sex-is-just-sex-to-say-that-implies

80 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"Consensual sex" is just sex. (Original Post) redqueen Jun 2014 OP
Yup! TexasProgresive Jun 2014 #1
If someone is under age...they cannot consent...THAT is what it is referring to... VanillaRhapsody Jun 2014 #2
Thats rape. nt redqueen Jun 2014 #4
Statutory rape has the potential to be both. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #12
Rape and sex are mutually exclusive. A minor CANNOT give consent, so it's non-consensual thus rape. Squinch Jun 2014 #13
A minor can give consent. What is legal and what is ethical are not the same... Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #14
Again, a minor CANNOT give consent. Squinch Jun 2014 #15
What your argument amounts to is the eschewing of reality... Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #17
How does what I am saying differ from saying "statutory rape is rape" which you agree with below? Squinch Jun 2014 #19
A 15 year old is of the legal age to consent in some states. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #20
Barring Romeo and Juliet exceptions, no there are no states where 14 or 15 are the ages of consent. Squinch Jun 2014 #21
I think he's thinking of other countries. redqueen Jun 2014 #22
I'd prefer to stay far away from them. Squinch Jun 2014 #23
You did not answer my question. What is the point of having an age of consent? Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #24
It is not a false sense of protection. It is a protection. Squinch Jun 2014 #25
The creepy assholes who talk about how "she acted older than her age..." Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #51
"statutory rape has the potential to be both consensual sex and rape." JTFrog Jun 2014 #58
It's unreal, isn't it? redqueen Jun 2014 #60
Please read my other posts in here. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #68
This message was self-deleted by its author JTFrog Jun 2014 #80
Two minors have sex. Who's the rapist? They both engaged in what would legally be MADem Jun 2014 #54
Neither would be considered guilty of statuatory rape in most states BainsBane Jun 2014 #55
It's interesting how often this is brought up in threads about rape. redqueen Jun 2014 #61
What if they are both males? Both females? MADem Jun 2014 #64
The adult is the rapist. The person who breaks the law is the rapist BainsBane Jun 2014 #66
No adults. That was my point. No priests, no perverts. MADem Jun 2014 #74
If they are both kids, there is no crime BainsBane Jun 2014 #76
That doesn't stop the state from bringing charges. See post 78. nt MADem Jun 2014 #79
Romeo and Juliet is not the law in all fifty states. Further, children below the age of consent MADem Jun 2014 #63
Your articles aren't don't deal with Romeo and Juliet cases BainsBane Jun 2014 #65
And this is why ignore this obvious red herring every time. redqueen Jun 2014 #69
You started this thread, and I thought it was about the definition of "consensual sex" MADem Jun 2014 #78
No, those articles were illustrating my OTHER point, that children who are too young MADem Jun 2014 #75
Statutory rape is rape. redqueen Jun 2014 #16
Statutory rape is rape, you are correct. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #18
Bravo. Exactly. And of course I agree. Rape. Use the word. Nt seabeyond Jun 2014 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author Laffy Kat Jun 2014 #5
Disagree strongly. I've been beat up, and I've been raped, and there is a world of difference. redqueen Jun 2014 #6
Sorry, Redqueen. Laffy Kat Jun 2014 #7
No need to apologize... redqueen Jun 2014 #8
It is a learning process. That was one of the simplest, humblest apologies I have seen on DU Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #9
i thought so also, when i read the post hours ago. nt seabeyond Jun 2014 #10
yes and for some odd reason apologies has been on my mind today - evidently Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #11
You mean for this? RiffRandell Jun 2014 #26
Are you seriously still wearing that raggedy old dress? Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author RiffRandell Jun 2014 #28
Lol Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #29
This message was self-deleted by its author RiffRandell Jun 2014 #30
You mad? Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #31
Post removed Post removed Jun 2014 #32
You sound unhinged. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #34
Rather than flipping out because of what you think BainsBane Jun 2014 #38
You know how many times I've forgiven people and they've never offered and apology. boston bean Jun 2014 #39
Some people live for conflict BainsBane Jun 2014 #41
I was willing to move on, but it keeps being brought up. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #42
Just move on, is my advice. boston bean Jun 2014 #44
Whereas I was told off BainsBane Jun 2014 #46
An apology is always nice. It's up to the wronged person to accept it or not or boston bean Jun 2014 #47
It was clear that in my case BainsBane Jun 2014 #48
I agree. I find it to be very distasteful to try and force someone into boston bean Jun 2014 #49
Are you saying I'm not welcome here? RiffRandell Jun 2014 #40
Perhaps if you once tried to participate in a discussion without attacking posters here BainsBane Jun 2014 #43
"It's sad that you and others are bringing this group down." JTFrog Jun 2014 #57
Knock this shit off in this group. boston bean Jun 2014 #33
Done. RiffRandell Jun 2014 #35
No reason for it, it was personal bullshit way below the belt. boston bean Jun 2014 #36
You are very welcome. nt RiffRandell Jun 2014 #37
What you call a lie BainsBane Jun 2014 #45
She apologized twice in this thread BainsBane Jun 2014 #50
and i just thought that one poster did a good job of accepting another perspective. that was all. nt seabeyond Jun 2014 #52
ya. i saw that somewhere. cant remember where. i did however have a terrific seabeyond Jun 2014 #53
What the hell is going on in this thread? ismnotwasm Jun 2014 #56
It is my fault. I apologize for anything I ever said to RiffRandell. I hope this apology is accepted Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #59
It's kinda routine at this point. nt redqueen Jun 2014 #62
Maybe this can be a turning point, redqueen. I just received a PM from Riff and she accepted my Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #71
Well, this thread sure sparked a lot of hair-splitting and redirection. MadrasT Jun 2014 #67
Someone is 'laying down the law' in differentiating sex from rape? redqueen Jun 2014 #70
LOL Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #73
yes, Please see my post #71 in this thread. Let us all quit deflecting and move forward. There are Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #72
Basically how I feel about it. ismnotwasm Jun 2014 #77
 

VanillaRhapsody

(21,115 posts)
2. If someone is under age...they cannot consent...THAT is what it is referring to...
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 06:43 PM
Jun 2014

Even if they "consented" to sex...they cannot legally.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
14. A minor can give consent. What is legal and what is ethical are not the same...
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:22 PM
Jun 2014

For instance, a couple may have one person prosecuted, and I have seen this, for being above age, while the other is underage. That legally constitutes rape. But it can still ethically constitute consensual sex.

Age of consent laws are not as black and white as other laws which define sexual assault. For instance, the act of forcing oneself upon another sexually is rape because that very clearly defines that the victim never gave any form of consent and may even have resisted.

With statutory rape, both parties had the potential to give some form of consent. The law simply does not recognize the consent of the minor. But that is an issue of cognitive capacity. Which cannot always be generalized from age alone.

Whereas we would all argue that a 10 year old could not give consent. What about a 15 year old? At that point, whether or not that person could give consent must be measured by a psychological profile. And what if they find that the person was capable of comprehending the consequences of consent? According to the law, that person was the victim of statutory rape. But by any other measure, it was consensual sex.

Squinch

(50,774 posts)
15. Again, a minor CANNOT give consent.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 04:35 PM
Jun 2014

Whether someone thinks the minor should be able to give consent or not is not material. A minor CANNOT give consent. Therefore it is rape.

A 15 year old CANNOT give consent. It is not measured by a psychological profile, it is measured by the legal age of consent. There is no psychological profile that determines ability to consent to sex, and a man having sex with a minor does not get to justify his actions by saying, "she's older than her years."

Our legal system has decided that a 15 year old is NOT capable of comprehending the consequences of consent. So it is NOT consensual sex.

A. Minor. Cannot. Give. Consent.

Therefore it is rape.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
17. What your argument amounts to is the eschewing of reality...
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 05:20 PM
Jun 2014

Because it contradicts legal doctrine. That is unwise.

If the only measure for what constitutes sex is that it is at its very moment legally defined and endorsed under the law, then ethical considerations and ultimately reality itself become subordinate to law.

If you can conceive of a situation where two persons can possess the cognitive ability to knowingly consent to sex, yet at least one of them is under the legal age for consent, then you have traveled into a territory where law defines an ethical act as illegal. And that is what I'm talking about.

You can couch this inside of the idea that a "man" is taking advantage of a child, but what I am speaking about is not that. I am talking about the problem of reconciling contradictions between law and ethics.

You don't magically gain the ability to consent on the day you reach the age of consent. It isn't an on and off switch. You learn and grow to a point where it could be said you understand action and consequence. That could happen before or after you reach the legal age of consent. And, according to law, you cannot consent to sex even though you possess the mental faculties to do so.

Does that make sense? In that regard, you can have consensual sex that still legally constitutes statutory rape. That is what I mean.

Squinch

(50,774 posts)
19. How does what I am saying differ from saying "statutory rape is rape" which you agree with below?
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 05:30 PM
Jun 2014

It is the same thing.

Statutory rape is sex with a minor. And if we are talking about the difference between law and ethics, I have no problem with saying that a man having sex with a 15 year old is not ethical in addition to being illegal.

I'm not couching anything. I am stating that if a man takes advantage of a child - and a 15 year old is a child - no matter how much she looks like she's 25, and no matter how aware she seems, it is still rape. And it isn't ethical.

A minor cannot consent.

Therefore, statutory rape is rape. Which you agree with.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
20. A 15 year old is of the legal age to consent in some states.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 05:58 PM
Jun 2014

Other states have it set as low as 14. So your argument is predicated on the specific state in reference.

If for instance, we are talking about a state where the legal age of consent is 14 or 15, then you have to recognize that that 15 year old can consent.

Are you okay with admitting that? If you are, then are you not admitting that the reasoning behind setting the legal age of consent seems to be somewhat arbitrary. Because that 15 year old could travel to another state and suddenly he or she could not consent.

What is the point of an age of consent law?

Squinch

(50,774 posts)
21. Barring Romeo and Juliet exceptions, no there are no states where 14 or 15 are the ages of consent.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 06:06 PM
Jun 2014
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_sexual_consent_in_the_United_States

Each US state has its own age of consent. State laws set the age of consent at 16, 17 or 18.
The most common age is 16.[2]

age of consent 16 (30): Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Connecticut, District of Columbia, Georgia, Hawaii, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, West Virginia

age of consent 17 (9): Colorado, Illinois, Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, New Mexico, New York, Texas, Wyoming

age of consent 18 (11): Arizona, California, Delaware, Florida, Idaho, North Dakota, Oregon, Tennessee, Utah, Virginia, Wisconsin,1

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
22. I think he's thinking of other countries.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 06:22 PM
Jun 2014

I would love to meet the people who think middle school age kids are mentally and emotionally ready for sex.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
24. You did not answer my question. What is the point of having an age of consent?
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 07:51 PM
Jun 2014

Is it to enforce a false sense of protection? Or is it to protect those who genuinely lack the ability to give informed consent?

If it is the former, then your argument makes perfect sense. If it is the latter, you have to recognize the age of consent laws have the potential to prosecute a serious offense on behalf of a victim which knowingly consented to sex.

Age of consent laws codify an act as a serious criminal offense without regard to intent. I will not contest the incredible potential for manipulation by an 18 year old with a 15 year old. But is that manipulation so much different than if the younger person was 16? Why is one criminalized while the other is merely looked down upon?

Age of consent laws make sense when the minor does not exist along the upper limit. But as we approach the legal age of consent, we enter a territory which may actually be counter productive. And that is why each case demands unique evaluation.

And that is why I stand by my original statement that statutory rape has the potential to be both consensual sex and rape. At least under specific circumstance. That kind of contradiction in law is potentially very dangerous.

Squinch

(50,774 posts)
25. It is not a false sense of protection. It is a protection.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 08:23 PM
Jun 2014

We have two choices. We can either say, "Not before 16" or we can say to the 30 year old who wants to shag the 15 year old, "We're not setting a date here because, hey, maybe she's a really mature 15, so let's just play it by ear." Or worse, we can say that to your 18 year old. Seriously? You think that's the preferable option? And then, well, 15 isn't much different from 14 or 13, sooooo....

No, each case should not demand unique evaluation. Each case demanding a unique evaluation is tantamount to saying, "It's OK guys. You are thinking you might like to have sex with that 15 year old? Go right ahead and we'll work out the details later."

So we have a line in the sand. It's a protection. It isn't a false protection. It's a protection.

15 is 15. An older man does not need to be having sex with a 15 year old. And what does that mean, "when the minor exists along the upper limit?" How much of an upper limit do you think you are going to find among 15 year olds? How is that different from the creeps saying, "Well, she was really mature?"

Age of consent laws do regard intent. They regard the intent by an older person to be having sex with a 15 year old child. That intent is criminal, and it should be.

And I'll stand by my original statement. Rape and sex are mutually exclusive, and statutory rape is rape.

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
51. The creepy assholes who talk about how "she acted older than her age..."
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 10:24 PM
Jun 2014

Are making a circus of reality. They latch onto a possible truth and use it to their own ends. What the creepy asshole is saying is in many ways very truthful about a lot of young people. But that truth has nothing to do with why they're saying it and it doesn't have anything to do with the victim. They take a truth and project it onto their own transgression in order to justify it.

What is the truth buried under the bullshit? That there is an immense level of variability among the intellectual and emotional faculties of teenagers and young adults. And as we sit upon a threshold for what constitutes informed consent, many of these persons have the ability to cross over or fall short.

Age of consent laws assume intent rather than try to define it based on evidence. Which is the exact opposite of trying to determine intent. They assume that an 18 year old having sex with a 15 year old is such an egregious ethical violation that it should be criminal. It does not say anything about the minds of the two persons. It aligns intent with age and in the process intent is subsumed under age.

The reason why age of consent laws are generally correct is that the alignment of maturity with age is also generally correct. But that can be said of all sorts of generalizations that, in the end, are wrong a disturbing amount of the time.

I am also suspicious that the very system which produces predatory men is also responsible for the enacting of laws regarding age of consent as a way of allowing hegemonic masculinity to continue to regulate the sexuality of teenagers under the guise of law. Rather than defining consent around intellectual or emotional capacity, they align consent with age. And does that not reflect the very kind of ideology which preoccupies the mind of sexual predators? That what defines sexual availability is age.

What I'm speaking to is a contradiction which grows stronger as the person approaches the age of consent that then inverts itself entirely once one surpasses the age of consent to the point where there is a general social obsession with deeply sexualizing 18 year olds. What we see is a need to regulate sexual purity. That is why the history behind statutory rape revolves around a fear of sexual corruption and carnality and sin and NOT around whether the young person in question is capable of understanding action and consequence or even whether he or she was injured in the process.

We see this in the culmination of a legal "tipping point" that is like a clock counting down to an age which, when time runs out, allows society to throw young adults to the wolves. That is the inversion. And what I think it demonstrates is that we as a society probably didn't care about the safety of the 15 year old. We cared about maintaining an image of safety.

When I say that statutory rape can be both consensual sex and rape, I am not saying that sex and rape are the same. They are not. The two are mutually exclusive concepts. But that proves my point that a law which has the potential to make these mutually exclusive concepts appear the same is an institution we need to question.




 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
58. "statutory rape has the potential to be both consensual sex and rape."
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:15 AM
Jun 2014

Rape is Rape.

What the fuck is wrong with people?

This is why I can't stand DU anymore. This shit is just absurd. And look where you are posting this crap. Unfuckingbelievable.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
60. It's unreal, isn't it?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 09:59 AM
Jun 2014

Goddess forbid anyone focus on clearly separating sex and rape.

Someone has to show up and do the Devil's Advocate routine (insert wanking smiley).

Gravitycollapse

(8,155 posts)
68. Please read my other posts in here.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:30 AM
Jun 2014

Instead of asking "what the fuck is wrong" with me. If you want to know what I'm talking about, read what I write.

Response to Gravitycollapse (Reply #68)

MADem

(135,425 posts)
54. Two minors have sex. Who's the rapist? They both engaged in what would legally be
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 11:34 PM
Jun 2014

perceived as non-consensual sex.

I didn't get specific about genders, there, either, so mix that up as you'd like.

The term exists because it has utility in certain situations. Unless you want to discuss two minors "raping" one another.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
55. Neither would be considered guilty of statuatory rape in most states
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 04:31 AM
Jun 2014

There is a requirement for a certain age gap, and typically the offending person needs to be over 18. Gender is not the issue in any legal sense but that an adult preys upon a minor is. There are some high-profile cases were women have done just that.

Age of consent doesn't have anything to do with whether a minor can have sex with someone in their own peer group/age range, but when they can legally consent to sex with an adult.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
61. It's interesting how often this is brought up in threads about rape.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:04 AM
Jun 2014

You'd think there were as many young men being jailed for rape unfairly as there are girls and young women being raped.

I see this kind of shit for exactly what it is.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
64. What if they are both males? Both females?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:12 AM
Jun 2014

My issue is the "lay down the law" attitude towards language.

The language, I think, is there for a reason. Intent counts. Two young men, or two young women--who's the rapist? It's a fair question.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
66. The adult is the rapist. The person who breaks the law is the rapist
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:24 AM
Jun 2014

Sexual orientation has nothing to do it. The concept is a basic one: It is illegal for an adult to rape a child or a minor teen under the age of consent. Period. Jerry Sandusky is not a leading man in a romance novel. He is a sexual predator. The same holds true for the Catholic priests who molested teens or the female school teachers who rape their students.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
74. No adults. That was my point. No priests, no perverts.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:56 AM
Jun 2014

Two kids. Gender not important. No R and J laws (they aren't extant in every state).

Here's the only point I'm making. There are some "crimes" that are victimless. If they are underage, these two youngsters, they aren't having "consensual sex." They have no ability to GIVE consent. Legally.

But it's not rape, either.

My point is only this--some terms have utility, even if they might not be immediately apparent.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
63. Romeo and Juliet is not the law in all fifty states. Further, children below the age of consent
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:10 AM
Jun 2014

can and do prey on (and sometimes murder) adults. I've seen many cases where the offending person was under eighteen.

Famous case in MA right now:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2013/11/21/philip-chism-accused-raping-murdering-danvers-high-teacher-colleen-ritzer/jGdMVl1PumhF39uZ7lrbIN/story.html

Another example: http://nypost.com/2014/01/23/15-year-old-held-in-rape-bid/

Are these attackers, below the age of consent, unable to legally be responsible for their actions?

The first example tried to kill a woman while he was in lockup--they've got him in a high security "undisclosed location" because he's a murdering machine, apparently.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
65. Your articles aren't don't deal with Romeo and Juliet cases
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:20 AM
Jun 2014

The first case is about a 14 year old who raped an adult, not teens who have sex. Your tabloid piece is about a 15 yr old who raped an adult. Neither have to do with statutory rape.
.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
69. And this is why ignore this obvious red herring every time.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:32 AM
Jun 2014

It is disingenuous whataboutery.

Bringing that shit up in a thread about rape (which happens how many rimes every day?) is ... what it is.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
78. You started this thread, and I thought it was about the definition of "consensual sex"
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 11:18 AM
Jun 2014

but hey, if you don't really want to talk about that issue, then fine.

I'll leave you with a link that illustrates precisely the sort of case I am talking about--this was a sexual relationship between two underaged teens, one slightly younger than the other, the younger the "aggressor/initiator"--but there was no coercion (though the state averred there was, initially).

http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/462/462mass204.html

My only point is when you get into juvenile hall these things aren't quite so cut and dried.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
75. No, those articles were illustrating my OTHER point, that children who are too young
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:59 AM
Jun 2014

to give consent can be, and sometimes are, the aggressors.

Response to redqueen (Original post)

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
6. Disagree strongly. I've been beat up, and I've been raped, and there is a world of difference.
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 07:16 PM
Jun 2014

I also find your definition incredibly simplistic. It doesn't just happen 'to your vagina'.

redqueen

(115,096 posts)
8. No need to apologize...
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 10:09 PM
Jun 2014

There may be women who have, but who agree with you on this point. In fact I'm sure there are.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
11. yes and for some odd reason apologies has been on my mind today - evidently
Sun Jun 8, 2014, 11:55 PM
Jun 2014

I don't give good enough ones. Go figure.

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
26. You mean for this?
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 08:34 PM
Jun 2014
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024117420#post134

You deserve it.

that you can continue to laugh at simple old jokes and enjoy being petted by these men.

sort of like their old pet dog, reminds me.

the picture I have of you in my mind when I see you posting.

a good old hunting dog. loyal. pet. pet. good doggie. here let me throw you another morsel ...

lord. You crack me up.

haha. Hilarious. truly LMAO over her.


You NEVER apologized TO ME. I was going to let it go, but since you and your mentor keep bringing it up, fuck it.

I want you exposed for the nasty person you two are. Keep it up!

Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #27)

Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #29)

Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #31)

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
38. Rather than flipping out because of what you think
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:07 PM
Jun 2014

someone may be thinking, get over it; pass by. Try minding your own business for a change. You don't have a right to control people's thoughts, so quit trying. Your tantrums are a colossal bore. It's unfortunate you spend your days inventing excuses to attack other women, but that is your problem entirely. Deal with it, and leave this group out of your shit. No one here is interested.


boston bean

(36,186 posts)
39. You know how many times I've forgiven people and they've never offered and apology.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:13 PM
Jun 2014

I'm like, come on, we're grown ups here...

Many times, I've just decided it's not that important, or I deal in a way that keeps me safe. I don't keep on demanding apologies and hold it over everyone elses head because I didn't get one.

This shit has got to stop!

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
42. I was willing to move on, but it keeps being brought up.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:18 PM
Jun 2014

I'm willing to let it go; I've said it numerous times, but THEY won't.

You are better than them bb. I hope someday you realize that.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
44. Just move on, is my advice.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:23 PM
Jun 2014

And I am not better than anyone else in this group. I like most everyone who posts here, and I respect them. Do I agree with every god damned thing, no. But I'm in more agreement than not. This groups serves a purpose. A purpose that I support. A place for likeminded feminists to discuss issues. As long as I'm host, that isn't changing.

This other bullshit, is just that, bullshit. So, if you are willing to move on, please do so. No one makes your fingers type anything on the keyboard, you do that all yourself. Just as I do.

I have had so much said about me, untrue allegations, how much sex I have questioned, whether I'm a prude, that I'm here to divide the always undivided DU, that I make DU suck, that I'm a troll. That I must have been sexually damaged to hold the opinions I do. It goes on and on and on. I ignore most of the shit.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
46. Whereas I was told off
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:36 PM
Jun 2014

For not forgiving someone immediately after being insulted. The cognitive dissonance is astounding.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
47. An apology is always nice. It's up to the wronged person to accept it or not or
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:39 PM
Jun 2014

when they decide to accept. Sometimes it is not something forgiven with just words. Sometimes action helps as well. As a matter of fact, I will take the actions of someone over a verbal apology any day.

Some of this stuff makes me feel like I'm back in the third grade, for real!

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
48. It was clear that in my case
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:42 PM
Jun 2014

the purpose of the apology was to use as a club against me, as ammunition for more attacks. If anyone actually cared that I had been insulted, they would not have immediately doubled-and tripled-down on the insult.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
49. I agree. I find it to be very distasteful to try and force someone into
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:44 PM
Jun 2014

accepting an apology. That is between the person and the aggrieved, not some third party trying to score points.

RiffRandell

(5,909 posts)
40. Are you saying I'm not welcome here?
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:15 PM
Jun 2014

What a rude post, and you need to take a long look in the mirror.

I respect boston bean as she isn't dishonest. It's sad that you and others are bringing this group down.

She doesn't deserve that. You should respect that.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
43. Perhaps if you once tried to participate in a discussion without attacking posters here
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:19 PM
Jun 2014

People would feel differently about your presence in this group. Unfortunately, that has never happened, not as long as I've been a member here. As for whom you respect, I am not even slightly interested.

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
57. "It's sad that you and others are bringing this group down."
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 07:09 AM
Jun 2014

I've seen the folks interested in trying to bring this group down. Wish you all would just go away already.



boston bean

(36,186 posts)
33. Knock this shit off in this group.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 08:55 PM
Jun 2014

I truly abhor these types of games where one is virtually threatening, by saying they would never do such a thing, but provide details to try to shame or harass.

Fuck that shit. Knock it off, or you will be blocked from this group. I would like you to delete the posts you have made here.

boston bean

(36,186 posts)
36. No reason for it, it was personal bullshit way below the belt.
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:01 PM
Jun 2014

Poisonous bullshit, meant to try and intimidate.

Thank you for deleting.

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
45. What you call a lie
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 09:30 PM
Jun 2014

Quote:

yes and for some odd reason apologies has been on my mind today - evidently
I don't give good enough ones. Go figure.


What lie is that? Are you so omniscient you know what she was thinking of? How can you possibly claim someone else's thoughts are "a lie"?

BainsBane

(53,003 posts)
50. She apologized twice in this thread
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 10:07 PM
Jun 2014

that you scoured closely enough to notice an edit to my post and scold me for it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/125544536#post38
http://www.democraticunderground.com/125544536#post11

I also saw her apologize for it several months ago. Given that at least a dozen people have thrown it in faces of several members of this group, it has been discussed ad nauseam. If I had that kind of memory for insults against me, I'd have no time for anything else.

Why you feel entitled to drone on endlessly about that one comment while simultaneously insisting I must accept an apology immediately upon reading a stunning insult is truly astounding.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
52. and i just thought that one poster did a good job of accepting another perspective. that was all. nt
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 11:07 PM
Jun 2014
 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
53. ya. i saw that somewhere. cant remember where. i did however have a terrific
Mon Jun 9, 2014, 11:09 PM
Jun 2014

afternoon and evening and night with my family.

hmmm.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
56. What the hell is going on in this thread?
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 05:03 AM
Jun 2014

RQ posts an interesting tumbler quote, there's a bit a of a back and forth about definitions and meanings-- and out of the blue, it gets personal?

Huh.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
59. It is my fault. I apologize for anything I ever said to RiffRandell. I hope this apology is accepted
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 08:36 AM
Jun 2014

in the spirit it is intended.
I want peace among all women on DU.
Please, can we move forward in harmony.

I seek only dignity and respect for Humans of All Nations no matter their color, sex, or creed.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
71. Maybe this can be a turning point, redqueen. I just received a PM from Riff and she accepted my
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:39 AM
Jun 2014

my apology. She would have posted in the thread but, she can't because of the hidden post.

I know that bad and hurtful things have been said by women and to women on this site.

I know that wounds heal own their own timetable.

I hope that we all can at least try to NOT bring up the past.

Perhaps, in time, it can all be forgiven because it will all be truly forgotten.

I am not asking that everyone sing kumbaya.

Just asking that we give people time and space to come to terms with each other.

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)
67. Well, this thread sure sparked a lot of hair-splitting and redirection.
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:28 AM
Jun 2014

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

Anything to deflect from the fucking point.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
72. yes, Please see my post #71 in this thread. Let us all quit deflecting and move forward. There are
Tue Jun 10, 2014, 10:41 AM
Jun 2014

women dying over this while we mince words.

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