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Bjornsdotter

(6,123 posts)
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 11:56 AM Mar 2016

What Americans Don't Understand About Nordic Countries

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-americans-dont-understand-about-nordic-countries-2016-3


But this vision of homogenous, altruistic Nordic lands is mostly a fantasy. The choices Nordic countries have made have little to do with altruism or kinship. Rather, Nordic people have made their decisions out of self-interest. Nordic nations offer their citizens—all of their citizens, but especially the middle class—high-quality services that save people a lot of money, time, and trouble. This is what Americans fail to understand: My taxes in Finland were used to pay for top-notch services for me.

*snip*

When I lived in Finland, as a middle-class citizen I paid income tax at a rate not much higher than what I now pay in New York City. True, Nordic countries have somewhat higher taxes on consumption than America, and overall they collect more tax revenue than the U.S. currently does—partly from the wealthy. But, as an example, here are some of the things I personally got in return for my taxes: nearly a full year of paid parental leave for each child (plus a smaller monthly payment for an additional two years, were I or the father of my child to choose to stay at home with our child longer), affordable high-quality day care for my kids,one of the world’s best public K-12 education systems, free college, free graduate school, nearly free world-class health care delivered through a pretty decent universal network, and a full year of partially paid disability leave.

*snip*

Nordics are not only just as selfish as everyone else on this earth but they can—and do—dislike many of their fellow citizens just as much as people with different political views dislike each other in other countries. As for homogeneity, Sweden already has a bigger share of foreign-born residents than the U.S. The reason Nordics stick with the system is because they can see that on the whole, they come out ahead—not just as a group, but as individuals.

*snip*

Nordic countries are well-ranked when it comes to helping facilitate starting a business. At the most basic level, what the Nordic approach does is reduce the risk of starting a company, since basic services such as education and health care are covered for regardless of the fledgling company’s fate. In addition, companies themselves are freed from the burdens of having to offer such services for their employees at the scale American companies do. And if the entrepreneur succeeds, they are rewarded by tax rates on capital gains that are lower than the rate on wages.

From my Nordic-American perspective, I’m actually surprised by how many Americans discount Bernie Sanders’s policy proposals because at their root they’re no different from what the Nordic countries have already proven works. I understand why Sanders supporters believe in his vision, and I can assure them that they are not being the least bit naive.
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What Americans Don't Understand About Nordic Countries (Original Post) Bjornsdotter Mar 2016 OP
Here is the naive part. HassleCat Mar 2016 #1
Nobody's advocating public ownership of the means of production. Scuba Mar 2016 #2
If you review the Global Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) you'll find... kristopher Mar 2016 #6
Yes, the opposite of public ownership of the means of production (and providing of services). Scuba Mar 2016 #7
I don't understand what you are saying. kristopher Mar 2016 #8
Sure. Privatization is the opposite of public ownership (pure socialism). Scuba Mar 2016 #11
Still don't see the link to what I wrote. kristopher Mar 2016 #13
We have privately owned companies in Scandinavia Bjornsdotter Mar 2016 #3
That's a good way to put it. kristopher Mar 2016 #10
That's what people don't know Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2016 #14
Okay. silverweb Mar 2016 #4
It is going to be a real battle in many instances like health care. kristopher Mar 2016 #5
K&R abelenkpe Mar 2016 #9
My daughter lives in Oslo, Noway Rosa Luxemburg Mar 2016 #12
yeah, Canada has everything we need and they had MisterP Mar 2016 #15
 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
1. Here is the naive part.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:16 PM
Mar 2016

We think we could implement these systems by simply taking over from private, for-profit enterprises. Unfortunately, we have allowed corporate America to gain too much control, and they will demand to be bought out for ten times what they're worth. And many members of our own party, particularly those who get lots of money from health care and insurance interests, will make sure no programs go forward until all the stockholders and CEOs are paid off.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
6. If you review the Global Agreement on Trade in Services (GATS) you'll find...
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:14 PM
Mar 2016

That the corporations have put in place a system of transnational governance which creates a one way street to privatize existing government services (health care, postal, social security, etc) and prevent instances where privatization failures are returned or transferred to government services.

Note that the area of economic activity is Services, not manufacturing.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
13. Still don't see the link to what I wrote.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:33 PM
Mar 2016

Repeating an important point is sometime useful, but I don't see the utility of your post. It seems like you're trying to imply something and that's what isn't clear. Can you be more explicit?

ETA: Wait - I see that I've made a mistake. I thought I'd pointed out the role of regulation in regard to "ownership" in the above post. It was a little later in the thread - my mistake, sorry.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=152891

Bjornsdotter

(6,123 posts)
3. We have privately owned companies in Scandinavia
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:49 PM
Mar 2016

....and we also have very strong unions. No one, including Bernie, is trying to take away private industry.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
10. That's a good way to put it.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:23 PM
Mar 2016

What people don't realize is that when the arch-capitalist sees the words "government ownership of the means of production" the arch-capitalist mind interprets that to include any degree of regulation. They desire complete control of the world - nothing less.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
14. That's what people don't know
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:34 PM
Mar 2016

they think anything with socialist in the title means that everything is state-run. A democratic socialist society is a hybrid. Creation of wealth with a distribution for the benefit for a society as a whole and doesn't leave the poorer section out. America is fleece everyone for what you can get.

silverweb

(16,402 posts)
4. Okay.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 12:57 PM
Mar 2016

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]No one is advocating "taking over" all private, for-profit interests. Some essential industries, however, simply should not be for profit, while others sorely need to have the corruption and predatory greed regulated out of them.

Because you think that corporations won't "let" us serve The People's interests, we should just give up and continue to fatalistically slide downhill towards full corporate ownership of the country the way we're doing? I don't think so!


kristopher

(29,798 posts)
5. It is going to be a real battle in many instances like health care.
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:07 PM
Mar 2016

Your post comes across as a typical negative post planted in the #1 position by a HRC supporter. Is it?

Regardless, you have a valid concern even if you've unnecessarily exaggerated the scope and degree. Some industries are going to try to stop the transfer of some services (like health care insurance) to the government sector from the private sector. They will use claims of lost profits and they will support those claims with the trade agreements we've entered into. The problem with that strategy is that already Sanders isn't particularly well disposed to remaining in those trade agreements so the leverage the private companies have over policy is dramatically curtailed compared to what it would be with a global corporatist like Hillary.
Bernie can get it done.

The OP is GREAT.

Rosa Luxemburg

(28,627 posts)
12. My daughter lives in Oslo, Noway
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 01:30 PM
Mar 2016

She loves it. She says Norway is more people-friendly. She says that the prices for some items are more expensive than the US but it doesn't matter.

MisterP

(23,730 posts)
15. yeah, Canada has everything we need and they had
Sun Mar 20, 2016, 02:18 PM
Mar 2016
a race war after a secessionist who said he envied the Bosnians and Palestinians their civil wars said that Natives had no claim to land or sovereignty whatsoever, enthusiastic Reaganomics, and rednecks everywhere
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