Bernie Sanders
Related: About this forumThe Hill: Why Sanders defeats Trump, but Trump defeats Clinton (Bernie Group)
Last edited Thu Oct 22, 2015, 03:31 PM - Edit history (1)
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/257704-why-sanders-defeats-trump-but-trump-defeats-clinton
By H.A. Goodman, contributor October 22, 2015, 07:30 am
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) currently leads Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump by 4 percentage points more than Hillary Clinton does, according to RealClearPolitics. However, while the polls have Clinton over Trump now, it's Sanders who represents the best chance for a Democrat to beat the reality star. The Vermont senator is the worst nightmare for a GOP challenger, primarily because his value system is the antithesis of Republican stances on war, foreign policy, Wall Street and the economy.
Clinton, on the other hand, is a moderate Democrat with neoconservative allies, ties to Wall Street, with an FBI investigation into her emails. Politico once referred to Clinton as "Wall Street Republicans' dark secret," so Trump has a myriad of political arrows to hurl at the former secretary of State. In fact, article headlines from Politico, The New York Times and The Washington Post could be easily be part of any disparaging political attack by Trump toward Clinton.
For Democrats to beat Trump, they need to present the nation with his foil, or political opposite. The GOP front-runner would do quite well against Clinton in a debate, primarily because he once donated money to her foundation and she holds similar views on a variety of key topics. Most importantly, the fact that Clinton once accepted money from Trump is a political nightmare for Democrats in a general election.
An ABC News article explains exactly why Democrats can't win a general election with Clinton:
FULL story at link.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)It just doesn't get a whole lot more clear.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)DrBulldog
(841 posts)If Hillary is nominated and elected, there is little chance either house of Congress will be returned to the Democrats so the clowns that you are seeing today will still be there doing their daily dirt and Hillary will become a figurehead.
But if Bernie is nominated, he alone has the enthusiasm and energy of 75,000,000 millennials behind him who will explode the voting population, allowing Bernie to win in a landslide and consequently likely capture at least one house of Congress for the Democrats, making it possible for Bernie to start working to fix some of our horrible problems.
So think of today's "little" struggle on TV as a PREVIEW of the massive one that will CONTINUE throughout Hillary's administration if she is elected.
For gawd's sake think, people.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)time were gonna save everything, soon as all the dinosaur-thinkers were in the tar pits.
But then they started acting just like their parents, but in debt.
Look around now. Whose got your money?
It's on a loop - gonna have enthusiasm, gonna fix the problems, gonna end the wars, gonna - well, we have more people in and near poverty than we have had in years, that's for sure. And that is because the safety net was shredded by Republicans elected as Democrats. Bill. You rat. One of the millennials of that time, btw.
You might well be correct.The M cohort might explode and trample all over everyone with goodness. (Bet they get rid of their student loan debt before they raise social security, even if people are dying, or living with no respect, eating cat food. Wanna bet? lol
- One cannot expect a different result if little changes but the characters. There is absolutely no evidence that there is anything else on the table.-
We cannot breed our lazyboy-wearing-asses out of our problems. The adults have to be fixed right along with their little progeny. Else the same bad habits are taught and form their future. And the farce will be repeated again.
Thimk.
Chicago1980
(1,968 posts)The only way Trump could possibly defeat Clinton, and I really don't see that happening, is if Sanders supporters are so bitter from him not getting the nomination, that they stay home on election day and act like petulant children.
Omaha Steve
(99,573 posts)We don't always vote the same. Once it was over a school budget issue in the late 70's.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Just a reminder that you ARE posting to the Bernie Group...FYI.
And, be like "petulant children" or not, we as Americans can decide who to vote for...and whether to vote or not.
That IS our Right.
And NO one can order us to do anything different.
Trump is just a fad, he will pass and when it comes down to it, thinking republicans will not vote for Trump, they will either not show up to vote, or vote for Hillary.
And if Hillary is nominated, Bernie will let his supporters know they need to vote for Hillary because the alternative will be catastrophic. I may want Bernie to get the nomination, but if that doesn't happen, I will vote for Hillary, to not do so is unpatriotic, and by that I mean to allow the republicans to take the presidency. Your anger should not be a factor to not do your patriotic duty.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)irrational hatred. The idea that Repukes will convert or stay home rather than cast their votes against hated Hillary is laughable.
Even Hillary calls Republicans her enemies.
Demeter
(85,373 posts)Republicans are not going to vote for Hillary. No way, no how. They don't like her, and for good reason. They would rather die. Don't ask me, ask them!
Similarly, not many of the Bernie supporters will hold their noses and put the Queen on her throne. Been there, done that, and got thrown under the bus anyway. Far better to let Trump destroy the system that Hillary and Obama and DWS built; there's always another election, and if there isn't, there is change by other means.
Trying to guilt Bernie's troops into supporting a woman who is the anti-Bernie is going to be unsuccessful.
Trump is not a fad, he's the noxious flower of 70 years' cultivation. Go all the way back to Nixon and Joe McCarthy and you see the seeds of Donald Trump.
Bernie, on the other hand, is drawing many a GOP stalwart into his sphere. He will have bipartisan support because he is egalitarian. Bernie is a man for the 99%, and as events will prove, unless there is unparalleled corruption (and Hillary will be part of it) Bernie will win.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)People wake up on election day and some of them go to the polls to cast a vote. The more people who go to the polls AND vote for your party, the better chance you have of seeing your party win.
two parts. (1) Go to the polls. (2) Vote
However, if most people either hate your candidate or perceive your candidate as the lesser of two evils, then the haters come out in droves against her and only a few people want to vote for the lesser of two evils.
The line of Republican voters will be much longer than the line of folks holding their noses to vote for Clinton.
The sad part is that she is obviously an intelligent person, so she has to know that she could be ushering in our own little homegrown Hitler. She's going to try to do it anyway.
Intelligent and ethical voters support Bernie.
Perseus
(4,341 posts)to prevent a republican from becoming the next president, and his reason for not going independent (Ralph Nader???). If he doesn't get the nomination, and Hillary does, he will rally his supporters to vote for Hillary, he will not be one of these disgruntled candidates that when they loose they go away, Bernie will rally in favour of the Democratic nominee, and that is how this election will go, if Bernie is not the nominee.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)Sanders has integrity and does whatever he can to work within the system to changes things for the better, no matter how slightly.
But that doesn't mean that people will not stay at home in droves rather than get off their asses to support the consummate corporate insider offering only more of the same growing wealth inequality, bad trade deals, and military misadventuring.
mhatrw
(10,786 posts)coronate more of the same corporate friendly political dynasties that made them politically disaffected in the first place?
What if there is just no organic enthusiasm for one of the usual suspects who has been groomed as the safe corporate placeholder and paraded out in front of us for the last 25 years?
More than 90% of us hardcore leftwing political activists will hold our noses and vote for Hillary. You know this, I know this, and we all know this. But Hillary Clinton will energize far more brainwashed Republicans to get out to the polls to vote against her than she will energize traditionally politically disaffected people to get out to the polls to vote for her.
drm604
(16,230 posts)But Sanders would bring out more of the youth vote, which could help with other offices.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)To contend with to win the GE. A laundry list of closet skeletons and controversies, red hot hatered of her by many on the right and center and trust issues across the board. The fact that she polls less favorably against GOP opponents than Sanders doesn't surprise me in the least.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)And that block that also saw fit to vote for Ross Perot against both candidates running pushing for NAFTA was 20% of the electorate!
Just recently I've been on other message boards where right wingers will have all kinds of borderline or pure irrational hate for Hillary, and will in the next sentence say that they like Bernie Sanders' honesty and that they appreciate that a lot in today's sea of dishonest and crony candidates (that they also label "crony" themselves). They note that they might disagree with him on a lot of issues, but they respect him, where they don't respect Hillary Clinton. Now perhaps their feelings aren't that rational, but I think people need to recognize the reality that Bernie isn't the more toxic candidate in the GE than Clinton is that the corporate media tries to depict him as.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)They don't want to hear explanations as to how a Washington insider is secretly one of us. It's really pretty simple, imo.
People want a new sheriff to restore order, not someone who'll just negotiate with the outlaws looting the town.
in_cog_ni_to
(41,600 posts)There's not a chance in hell she can win.