Some Dems agree with Biden's former position in favor of reducing cost of living increases in order to reduce the deficit. It's a big tent party, and not all voters are progressives. So it's not like this is going to change everyone's mind, and when it does, it could go in either direction.

But I think that most Dem voters, particularly older voters, are opposed to Social Security cuts.

By the way, as much as you say it, Biden never had a position to "reduce cost of living increases", he and his colleagues considered a temporary switch to basing the increase on the Consumer Price Index, a completely different factor.

By the way #2, back in 2011 when the administration and Congress was considering moving to a "chained CPI", I ran the numbers for the previous three or four years - Cost of Living vs. Consumer Price Index. It was basically a wash - some years the COL was higher, some years the CPI was higher. It would not have made a drastic change either way.

For the umpteenth time this week, NO Democrat was in favor of "Social Security cuts", and none are now. Why not move on to another issue. This one has had the life beaten out of it.

For chained CPI, feel free to argue it’s not a cut or it’s not a big deal or whatever. But good luck. Voters are kinda touchy about social security.

Honestly I think Biden should just own the fact that he supported chained CPI (Bernie obviously didn’t). Instead of pretending he didn’t. He should try defending it like you are doing. Who knows maybe there’s a contingent of Dem voters who want SS cuts that I don’t know about.

those 65- 67, and used the word 'adjustments' instead of 'cuts' to SS?

Simple question, yes?

But keep playing word games if you’re having fun.

That's what the joke here truly is.



You've had multiple opportunies to show everyone that you know more than this journalist, and you've declined. And you refuse to answer any questions that might show that you have any evidence to support your scoffing and accusing anyone who doesn't flatter Sanders of being an "attacker."

Again, that doesn't really help one's credibility.

Everything that Sanders said that reflects badly on him is a joke.

please explain to us again how Sanders' flexibility in "adjustments" to the SS program .. is completely different from another candidate's "discussions." We'll wait.

ever supported have been increases, presumably that’s what he means there too. I guess you might think that was the one time in his life that he changed his mind and went through like an “austerity phase”.

But good luck convincing a single voter of that. Did you see the latest poll with Bernie leading nationally?

The thing is.... if Bernie was not advocating SS cuts, then neither was Biden, if you hold them to the same standards, which Bernie and his supporters are not.

Only if you want to believe what Sanders falsely claimed about Biden 'lauding' a law cutting SS benefits, and that "lauding" = avocating for the cuts in that law, would you construe that pointing out the fact that Sanders indeed did the very same was a "smear." You seem to cling to that, and react as though people were accusing Bernie as falsely as he was actually accusing Biden.

So, no. Pointing out that Bernie and Biden did the same thing is pointing out that neither promoted cuts....

To review - yes, Bernie did misrepresent Biden, Biden did not promote SS cuts as Bernie stated, and yes Bernie did indeed himselve praise or "laud" a law that did cut benefits and used the word "adjustments" to describe what needed to be done to "keep SS solvent."



https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

Since all you do is post anti-Biden stuff?

you aren't scaring me... the people that know the actual record (and, btw, older voters like me ALWAYS know the history) know different.

Post positive things about Bernie.

And we will post positive things about our candidate(s).

That way, come November, we can all vote for the Democratic nominee.

Leaning Bernie or Warren or Yang.

I don't post "anti-Biden stuff." Mostly I defend candidates from stupid and dishonest attacks, and since Bernie is the one getting almost all of those (like that he's been inconsistent about protecting and raising Social Security lol), a lot of my posts defend Bernie.

The fact that Biden has been in favor of entitlement reforms including SS cuts at various times isn't "anti Biden." It's just a fact. Same with Bloomberg. Cutting Social Security is simply a political position those two have taken, whether it's good or bad depends on whether voters agree with those cuts. Some voters agree that we need to cut SS and Medicare to reduce the deficit.

a reduction in a future increase is NOT a cut.

Talking about SS reform is not a proposal to cut or eliminate SS.

Your misuse of the word "cut" shows a deep bias. And a fundamental misunderstanding.

And, yes, Bernie has engaged in such talks as well... ALL Senators have engaged in such talks. That is the nature of being in the Congress.

Everyone who cares or talks about SS considers that a cut. It's like, you loan me $300 and I agree to pay you $100 next year and $200 the year after, and I change my mind and decide to just give you $150 in the second year, and try to argue I'm not actually "cutting" the payments because the second year is still bigger than the first, then you'd probably object.

But if you want, go explain to AARP and seniors and everyone else that you're not "cutting" the size of every social security check they will ever get in the future, you're just making them smaller. I'm sure that will go over great.

not at all analagous to the situation you just described.

And, oh, btw... I'm a senior and a member of the AARP...

So...

COLA is a very complicated formula... but also one that doesn't take into account regional or local cost of living... this forces retirees to move to lowest cost areas of the country to max out the usefulness of the SS income. If you are going to complain about SS, start with THAT issue.

Also consider that a 65 year old software engineer who has taken care of him or herself over the last 40 plus years is a much different retiree than the 65 year old coal miner or construction worker. Their needs in retirement (or even their age of retirement) are much different.

So we should look at all of these isssue.

Plus there was ONE fundamental flaw in the entire SS arrangement. It's a "ponzi" scheme... when it was started, and to this day it is based on the younger workers paying for the retirement benefits of the older generartion. The people that started it never imagined that the number of people working to support the older generation would become SMALLER. But with the boomer generation now retiring.. that is exactly what happened. Oops.

So, fine, a better analogy is that I agree to pay you $100 next year, and a highly complicated formula next year. And then I decided to a switch to a different highly complicated formula that ends up with a smaller amount. That's a cut. Try doing that to a bank loan that has some complicated interest rate formula and you will have a problem.

Reducing COLA results in a reduction to the stream of Social Security payments to every American relative to current law. And this is why, like I said, everyone who talks about SS considers it a cut.

Regional differences, other things, sure there should be discussion. Problem is, for decades people have been trying to sneak in things like Chained-CPI, and pretending they are not cuts, so everyone is jumpy about any changes, and for valid reasons.

But when it comes to the candidates, the fact that Biden in the past has been in favor of things like freezes and Chained CPI, whereas the only changes Bernie has ever been in favor of have been increases to benefits, is a fact. That doesn't mean Biden is evil, it just means he's more open to cuts in Social Security (or if you'd prefer, reductions in future Social Security checks relative to current formula). Voters who think Social Security should be cut will probably lean Biden for that reason. Voters who don't probably Bernie for the same reason.

I cut in social security means less money.

You say... but wait, what about inflation and cost of living...

To which I say... what inflation, what cost of living.

Housing is going up... but not universally. But it is going up... but wait, if you own your home and, whether it is paid off or not, is the cost of YOUR housing going up... nope... you either have the deed OR a mortgate contract... that while the mortgage contract might be tied to interest rates, I have never heard of one tied to inflation. Interest rates go up or down independent of inflation.

But then you say... what about everything else, energy, communication, food, consumables... and, do various degrees or another some of those are tied into inflation. That said, other things like computers and technology have, historically, gone the opposite of inflation... in 1982 I paid $5000 (1982 dollars) for an IBM XT... and now I am typing this on a $500 Lenovo laptop (never mind the light years of technology difference between them, just think about the money difference). So IF computers were the yardstick of inflation ahd the COLA that you claim to know so much about... the COLA would be like negative 10% a year. But it isn't... OTOH if seniors had to run out and buy new homes... it would be huge... much larger than it is currently (especially here in San Francisco). But it isn't... so, I like said, changing WHAT is included in looking at COLA is not a "cut", just a rational discussion about keeping the retirees at the same standard of living as was enjoyed by them in the previous year.

That is NOT a CUT. Plus is was a discussion not a vote.

And those who were planning on getting that check at 65 get nothing....

Like that kind of cut?

But I don't care much about Bernie. I also don't think any Democrat seriously advocates cutting it.

something rather interesting about Bernie's claim...



https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

Can't trust Sanders on Social Security. That's a good one!

As for trusting someone's statements...thanks for the opportunity for more research!



https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

False statements involving Bernie Sanders
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-sanders/statements/byruling/false/

Mostly False statements involving Bernie Sanders
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-sanders/statements/byruling/barely-true/


https://apnews.com/31c432f20acba807a569c7004abaf473

He is going to lose the primary. His campaign has behaved badly;popularity down...after Rogan and Miss Jane's tweet ...AA voter are not voting for him. He has no path to victory.

But if you do want to bet on it, you can make some good money, because the betting odds have Bernie as the favorite.

I guess we'll see!

You are "undecided".

the lesson here might be don't start things you can't finish. Or, people in glass houses ...

I thought this was a real article at first.

is laughable, and making the credibility of some look ridiculous

He is undecided, but he pushes for BS at every opportunity.
He should at least be honest about who his preferred candidate is.

Just popped up again.

LEFT BIAS
These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy. See all Left Bias sources.


https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-intercept/

People who are not left-leaning, this might not be their cup of tea. Or maybe they'd enjoy reading a different point of view.

You conveniently skimmed over the bad stuff.

Not a publication whose editors posit that the Republican party and the Democratic Party are equally bad and corrupt.

Is that your cup of tea?

I mean, would you trust the Daily Stormer with "data" on children of mixed race marriages?

Politifact is subject to journalistic standards:



https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

An admission from the OP's link..."We're not data analysts, but we play them on The Intercept".

Love it!

and unreliable evidence (conceded by the author relying on it).

It's remarkable how little respect that The Intercept has for the intelligence of its readers.

Don't mess with her.

Keep up the Great Work

Link to tweet

He was for it, but now he’s not

Link to tweet

Hence the rise in the polls. The anti-Bernie people with the smears are only convincing themselves. Bernie's record defending Social Security is clear to everyone.

understands Biden is Pro-Social Security.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

And please share what polls you are talking about... or is this another unsupported "big chunk" claim about numbers supporting Sanders?

Too bad he can't respond to me for himself.

Do you think it's because he's scared that I'll just post more mean old facts?

Or is he really worried that Bernie could indeed have said what I told him he said?

Thoughts?

You can say that Sanders made a disingenuous claim about Biden w/regards to his SS record (equating 'adjustments' always meaning 'cuts', when he's used that same word in the past W/O meaning 'cuts') ... in fact I agree ... HOWEVER ... that is not the same as proving that Bernie himself has advocated for cuts.

Bernie's comment was 'adjustments to SS have happened before and they'll happen again'. That's not the same as his advocating for cuts.

It's fair to call him out for his 'double-standard' on Biden's use of language, but not fair to elucidate from it ... that BS has actually advocated 'cuts'. Unless you have proof thereof.

And that's my point - if Biden "lauding" GOP legislation cutting SS (however disingenuous that is - as I stated) and using the word "adjustments" is "no different" than using 'cuts,' as per the Sanders campaign, then Sanders is indeed 'guilty' of the same.

DanTex calls mentioning any of that a "smear."

And Inabluestate never responds directly to me, but follows me around and makes very hyper-energetic praise posts for DanTex where I get in a good point.

I was challenging Inabluestate rhetorically, to make that point.

And you see that I'm right about that.

You are posting at a rate that would exhaust anyone else, but no time for lil ole me?

Why do you think that, as the Mueller report found, Russia was backing Senator Sanders in 2016?

And how is Bernie lauding Reagan's SS cuts any better than what he falsely claimed in an attack in a newsletter- that 'Biden lauded Paul Ryan's SS cuts?'

In case you forgot:



https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

You copy and paste that false claim from Sanders about Biden "being for cuts in SS) all over, along with a complaint about "a grainy video" of some kind as 'evidence' that Biden is the one that's doing what Bernie did...

But you always fear answering the question.

Cue InAbLuEsTaTe to come rushing to your aid in an effort to redirect...

Because she clearly thinks you can't answer either.

"These media sources are moderately to strongly biased toward liberal causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words, publish misleading reports and omit reporting of information that may damage liberal causes.
Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy."
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-intercept/

They do a lot of work for him.

older voters? Oh, DanTex you are a funny one. The Intercept, really?

shows how successful it has been for him.

Or do you mean, what has he actually won so far? Same as everybody else: nothing.

CA: +5 avg

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/ca/california_democratic_primary-6879.html

Any for the states that you say "he didn't have much of a shot at in 2016?"

Which states are you referring to?

It was an average of 4

Did you remember what you posted?

You accused me of only sharing one poll.


Polling is slim for most states right now but if you look at the 538 projections, for instance, you will find Bernie competitive or ahead in states like massachissetts, and within 10 points in states where he was blown out in like texas. Frankly if he just wins california and texas, he takes it.

If not I can guide you through that at a later time.

Biden should just stop campaigning. Since he and his base are so sure he will win, why doesn't he save all the campaign cash he's collected for the general election? He's got this nomination in the bag

Or are you confusing me with someone who is promoting Biden?

You can share one, yet no other.

Then you say:

Don’t think so?? Go count them up for yourself

Biden should just stop campaigning because he's clearly going to win without any effort