Reply #21: If you exclude certain Social-Economic Groups US Rate is LOWER than Canada [View All]

If you exclude three Social-Economic Groups from the US Murder rate, the rate is less than any other Western Country (Except Japan which has a very low rate but seems to be tied in with their non-western Cultural history than anything else). The three groups are, inner city Blacks, Rural Southerns (Both black and Whites) and American Indians. The high murder rate among Native Americans is NOT a addressed in this thread for like the low rates among Japanese seems to be tied in with Cultural influences that pre-date Modern Society and is only 1/2 the rate for Blacks and Rural Southern Whites). The big factor in the high US Murder rate is the much larger Rural Southern murder rate (Both Whites and Blacks) and inner city Black Murder Rates (like the Rural Southern Murder rate, MUCH higher in murder per thousand and in total murders).

The Inner City Black murder rate can be traced to the Rural south and thus both are inter-related. For years the NRA pointed out the much higher Murder rates of Blacks without looking into details. The reason for this is that the rate reflects the fact that till WWII, Blacks lived predominate in the Rural South and thus had the same attitude to violence as Rural Southern Whites. Blacks today are now in at least the third generation of Blacks living in Northern Cities and thus the connection to the Rural South is quickly disappearing and with it the high murder rate.

One of the "Fun" Statistics in history is that every American City had lower than Average Murder rates for the US prior to the 1960s. The reason for this was the extremely high Rural Southern Murder Rate. Only in the 1960s did American Cities started to exceed the US Average Murder rate (and this seems to be do to the influx of Southern Blacks). Now not only did inner-city murder rates exceeded the Average Murder rate for the US in the 1960s, the rates also peaked AND HAVE BEEN DROPPING EVER SINCE. Thus the problem of the increased murder rates of the 1950s and 1960s seems to be the influx of people with that Rural Southern violence tradition. This ended in the 1960s as one generation replaced another so that Rural the Southern Traditions of the displaced Rural Southern Blacks of the 1940s and 1950s was replaced with the much less violent Northern Traditions of the Puritans.

Another factor in the "High" US inner city Crime rate is the emergence of the Suburbs. Many inner cities contain less than 1/3 of the total population of an area, yet are centrally located with a lot of older housing stock (and thus a higher percentage of Low income people). Thus in the 1960s you started to see rates raise in the inner city while the crime rate in the urban area as a whole declined. This movement to the suburbs has continued and it shows you how much crime in the US has dropped since the 1960s in that Crime rates for inner cities have dropped since the 1960s DESPITE THE MOVEMENT OF HIGHER INCOME PEOPLE (who tend to have lower crime rates) FROM THE INNER CITIES TO THE SUBURBS.

My point here is to state (once again, I have done it often) of the difference between the rest of Western Society and the American Rural South. The reason for this high crime rate has been touched on by many observers, and various reasons have been given for it. The best explanation was the nature of Slavery. As part of the effort to control the Slaves, the Whites of the American South had to participate in "Patrols". These "Patrols" had the right to check any black walking along the road to make sure they were NOT run-a-way slaves, nor slaves getting together to form a Slave Revolt. These patrols had the right to punish any Black on the spot for any infraction (even if untrue) up to and including killing the Black (Even if a Free Black or someone's slave). Since all White Males had to participate in these Patrols, all White Males learn to use violence to solve any dispute. The Blacks (Both Free and Slave) grew up in this same environment and internalized the same basic outlook in life (Thus thought very much like the Whites in the Patrols). Legal "Patrols" ended with the end of the Civil War, but the tradition was strong among Rural whites and thus continued after the Civil War illegally as a social gathering (and anti-black gatherings), and than in the segregated south of the 1890s-1960s both as a social gatherings and as a means to repress the now freed Blacks. This long history of Violence leads to the use of violence in everyday situation and thus the high crime rate for both Whites and Blacks in the Rural South.

Another theory is that the South was settled by herders of Scotland and Ireland (Unlike the farmers who settled the American North) and herding societies tend to be violent for unlike farming communities, herding Societies can lose all of their herd to a thief in an instance, by the time law enforcement shows up the herd can be long gone, thus such herding society tend to very violent, you defend your property yourself for no one else will it for you.

A third theory is that the South has always underfunded everything in Government (including law enforcement), thus to get justice you had to do it yourself which leads to a very violent Society. A fourth theory is that the South is the last outpost of medieval Europe where people did not depend on the law but instead defended themselves (This is tied in with the heading theory).

My personal opinion is it is a combination of all four (In the order I list the theories with the greatest effect being the first two, the last two more excuse than reason), but the real issue is NOT why the South is so violent, but why has the Murder Rate of Blacks DECLINED since Blacks have moved north after WWII? This shows that the Rural Southern Murder rate can also decline if we can adopt the same rules (please note Gun Control seems NOT to be the answer given the decline is in both cities with strict gun controls and northern cities without strict gun controls). Why has the decline occurred? And can we duplicate it in the Rural South and thus reduce the overall US Murder rate to the same rate as the rest of the Western World?