Reply #27: I remember gore [View All]

Those same * loving loved ones have helped insure the deaths of thousands of innocent Iraqis and probably many more in other places.

Gore said Saddam must go, Clinton mimicked things along that line. Dems, Repubs, both saw him as a threat.

Who insured the deaths of thousands of innocent iraqis? Maybe many of us.

Were we out in the streets during the clinton administration protesting against policies he had on iraq? Did we make human shields for the tortured Iraqis and protest in general against saddam? What did we do all these years since the first iraq war??

And why bring up Iraq only? Is that the only thing in our minds? Let me tell you what the right wing of my family would say - what about all those people dying of aids who just go around screwing without care, what about all those aborted babies in the US, what have we done as a society to stop the many murders in the US?

In the US 1999:
Killed in car accidents 42,116*
Killed by the common flu 20,000*
Killed by murders 15,517*
Killed in airline crashes
(of 477m passenger trips) 120 (1)
Killed by lightning strikes 90*

So we go into a discussion with people talking about 2,000 US troops killed in action and many Iraqi's killed - and here we have 15,000+ murdered in the US in 1999. Their take, more dangerous in the US than in Iraq, more people killed here than there.

The RW view could become - There is no god according to the left, therefore there is no moral authority, hence we must do what is best for us and what is best for us is to crush what enemies we can (and the dems have agreed all along that Saddam is an enemy with WMD) and use our power to better ourselves. We get oil, we rid ourselves of a threat, we bring democracy to an oppressed society, we win all the way around. Sure some people die, but who cares and why should they? They hate us, they are a threat, they hate us, we are in a win-win situation (not that I agree with all this, just sharing what others have shared with me over time and trying to present their view on the matter - I think personally that we should have left well enough alone and found a peaceful solution to the whole matter).

people, relatives especially, have views we don't hold and like us want to convert us to their mode of thinking. Such gatherings can be used in a creative way to get things viewed in our way if we approach it the right way. I often start out agreeing with them, then I mention little things which get them to thinking. It can be a strategic way to make inroads to others. Often when all is said and done I have them at least questioning their own views, but not because I told them they were evil or wrong but because I agreed with them and then 'wondered' about something. Iraq? I wonder why we have gained so little overall at such a high cost, and while they think it was a good idea to go in and kick saddam butt they too start wondering if it is being handled as well as it should be 'I know you all liked bush, but I personally felt kerry had more war experience and could have done a better job at this point'. Principle versus strategy, not always easy, but sometimes it gets the results (ie, we all end up agreeing on this that * has done a poor job overall, even if they were for it).

The core issues though seem to cause problems - ie, my sister whom homeschools fears that liberals want to take away her right to do so. But to her credit, she will not vote for a repug if she does not like their stance on the issue and will vote dem locally if she feels they are less likely to infringe on that right.

On thursday I am sure we will discuss the election, but I myself will try to handle it in a way that makes them doubt their vote - without attacking them and calling them killers. Those in my family that voted for * saw him as more the type to do something about a problem then bitching about it (IE - gore wanted saddam out but was not willing to do anything about it, whereas * was). It can be tough at times sure, but as I mentioned already I won't let who they voted for and what they say interfere with a fun time :)