Reply #39: Out of their freaking minds is correct , , at least with this one. [View All]

The libertarian ideal does not tell us that we should not contract for garbage pickup. It does not even tell us that we should not be forced to do it. The concept of choice is, I think, really important here. You can choose to live somewhere in a remote region where your behavior does not impact others. However, in a society in which we pack people together, our moral as well as legal rights do come in conflict. When this conflict arises, the moral solution is often messy. The legal solution is usually an application of utilitarian or Pareto reasoning. Pareto is normally more of a top down solution requiring universal agreement whereas utilitarian reasoning is much easier to apply.

However, in the specific example you cited, the lack of a legal mandate works, not because people care about each other, but because they care about themselves. Keep in mind that even in an area where trash service is mandated as part of the local property taxes, there is no law telling people that they must use the trash service. Periodically I hear about some hermit who is walking on two feet of trash in his house and has never thrown anything away. Normally there is some level of mental instability involved. Having said this, most people do not want to live this way, so voluntary behavior tends to work. I have a summer place in an area where there is no city mandated garbage pickup. I must contract individually to have it done or we can take the trash to the dump ourselves. Or we can find some other way of getting rid of it, perhaps even just keeping it in our basement.

What bastian of libertarian ideology is this, you ask?

In what incredibly reactionary region have I chosen to spend my summers?

In the ultra right-wing (not) W loving (not!!) NRA centrist (NOT!!!) hamlet of Hyannisport MA.

Yes, the home of the Kennedys (we live in an area that is technically within the compound, behind the summer guards) does not require trash pickup. It does not mandate it, does not provide it as part of our incredibly high property taxes. If you want it done, you have to contract for it, and pay for it, yourself.

As I said earlier, I fall off the libertarian truck in some spots (particularly the environment), but trash pickup seems to work just fine, in spite of any government mandate.


I can't say with any real certainty that I understand what this woman was really getting to. Having said that, the mistake she is making is that a pure libertarian utopia requires certain assumptions. For example, without zoning laws or homeowners associations controlling our behavior regarding property, the remedy offered to an individual is the civil court system which has transactions costs that prevent some injured parties from using it.


FH