MOTOWN MELEE - Pacers Get Into Ugly Brawl With Pistons Fans At End Of Win

i'll ask them to wait and see the video first

this was ALL the fans fault

that is all

THe main thing I was surprised by was how crazy Steven Jackson was. Goddamn I never pictured him as the fiery enforcer type. He was going to the wall for Artest. Suspensions are coming on all sides.

Who were these out of line fans? Had they been drinking a little too much?

It appeared the police and security were completely worthless.

I couldn't see any in the video.

pepper spray which was never used.

but Artest was a total imbecile for sparking the riot by going in the stands because he got hit by some ice.
And it's shameful how Sports Center is trying to justify the actions of Artest. That's a bunch of BS!

The big bad Piston with the lousy hair do who pushed Artest in the neck and then followed him across the floor for more sparked the riot.

As for Larry Brown...he was a lousy coach when he was at the Pacers and he's a lousy coach now. The Pistons have always been bullies.

Just in case you forgot who won the Championship last year...

But you're right that Artest didn't spark the riot...

his players won.

Sorry, but I think he's a lousy coach who got lucky with players who could win in spite of him.

None. I've never been a Piston fan (they always made it tough for Bird's Celtics), but I gotta give credit where it's due.

That was a team effort. And the coach is part of the team. Maybe we'll just have to disagree but I'm gonna say that Brown (the 7th winningest coach in NBA history) is a great coach.

I'm entitled to think he's lucky and overrated.

How good is that Christmas day doubleheader looking now...

Pacers/Pistons
Lakers/Heat

It's party time.

Ben from behind. And wrong about Brown being a lousy couch. Besides being a briliant coach, he put together a championship team in Detroit last years without one bonafide superstar -- this has never been done.

Good thing Ben was smart enough to push him and not punch buddng rap star Artest. Big diff. regarding fines/penalties.

Artest is in big trouble for punching that second fan. Will probably cost him half a million. I base this on the 200,000 i know Rodman had to pay the camera man he kicked in the nuts.

Don't overblow things. Artest is a maniac and should have never gone into the stands. He is going to be suspended for a long, long time and deservedly so.

But the foul was just a hard foul. It wasn't close to being flagrant. Wallace lost it for no reason there.

That guy ran onto the court in a boxing pose, ready to "bring it on". Then he realised that he was a little outmatched.

The guy ran onto the court (where fans are not supposed to be) looking for a fight. He got one.

This ain't like Rodman kicking a cameraman at all...

in the red area just out of bounds. Only after he said something to Artest did they wrangle and did he end up on court. No doubt about it though, the punk was asking for it.

I would love to be in that jury. You approach a guy ready to fight, get ready to get your teeth kicked in and stop bitching when that happens.

I didn't think I had posted that Artest was some great guy.

I don't like him at all, but big Ben and his hair overreacted as usual.

This is happening all over the NBA. It's becoming more like hockey every day.

You don't stick your elbow in the back of someones neck when you are leading by 15 and under a minute left. Then to go into the crowd because you got wet? He actually claimed "self-defense" to the police.
Can you spell L-A-W-S-U-I-T!

for what he did.

But claiming he sparked the riot is stupid. His was the first flagrant foul of the whole game? I don't think so.

The entire NBA is out of control. The refs could fix the situation. The coaches could fix the situation. The players could fix the situation. None of them do.

And regardless of whether it was beer or ice, if someone threw shit at me like that, I'd go after them without pause.

What's BS is fans who think they have the right to act like assholes just cause they bought tickets.

Honestly, if we line up 10 males and throw anything at them how many won't fight back?

Hell, if we line up 10 females, some of them will retaliate too. I'm one of those females with a lot of testosterone. I'd have punch the fan too. How dare he throw something at me for doing my job!

I'm sorry, but having a drink thrown at you is no justification for charging into the stands. Sure, I think the guy deserved to get his ass kicked, but all going into the stands does is make a bad situation worse.

throats and too much booze being thrown at other people.

I saw the video. Both the fans and a couple of bad apple players are to blame.

Some numbnutz is on CNN right now blathering about "ethics" with regard to the Pistons melée.

"Ethics?" Good God, man, how about CRIME? How about getting LE to do their job and arrest and indict a number of people:

* The fan or fans who threw beer on the playing court.
* The players who abandoned all semblamce of sportsmanship and professionalism and assaulted troublemaking fans.
* The fans who assaulted the attacking players by throwing their beer.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of both sides.

I've had it with so-called "fans" who are rapidly morphing into the US equivalent of soccer hooligans. They are no better than street thugs and need to be identified and locked out of sporting events for life. They also need to be forced to address the underlying psychological conditions and/or disorders that drive their violence -- treatment is far less expensive than the cost of future incidents, prosecution and incarceration.

And as for professional athletes -- not just basketball players -- who cannot control their rage? I don't give a flying f$#k about the fact that they are an audience "draw." They should be thrown out of their respective leagues and banned for life. Period. Both Artest and Jackson should be fired. And, judging from what I saw on the tape, arrested along with at least five of the so-called "fans."

And I guarantee you that this incident will be forgotten long before we hear the end of the ginned-up "outrage" over the intentionally satirical, over-the-top and very funny "Desperate Housewives" sketch that opened last Monday's ABC football broadcast. Enough with the moralist hand-wringing.

"O, tempora! O, mores!" Oh, bollocks! Oh -- one other thing -- did anyone see the actual punchline to the sketch in which Teri Hatcher and one of the other DH actreesses in fact mercilessly skewered TV viewers? Funny how THAT doesn't seem to get mentioned at all...

... but then, Americans -- aprticularly Neoconfederate moralist types -- just don't get the concept of irony...

get the marines from falluja...this city is infested with insurgents!!!

it does NOT give a professional (emphasis on professional) the right to start punching out spectators. If you think about it, the fans are the employer! It's ticket sales that help drive those 6- and 7-figure salaries these guys are getting paid. According to one source I read, Artest didn't even beat up the right guy! Quite simply, that kind of behavior is unacceptable.

back in the mid-80's or so in a game between the Spurs and the Houston Rockets. Moses Malone was shooting freethrows with no time left on the clock, points that could win the game for Houston. Spurs fans were chunking 16 oz. cans of beer onto the court, including chunking them from the upper deck onto the court.

Malone made the freethrows to win the game and canned beer was never sold again at a Spurs game.

that's tough.

I remember a hockey game once between the Islanders and Rangers and Pat Lafontaine got injured. He was taken to the back of MSG and got put in an ambulance. Rangers fans surrounded the ambulance and started shaking it and wouldn't let it leave the arena.

That was the scariest thing I've ever heard of at a sporting event.

im a hockey fan, and i HATE it when fellow fans do stuff like that


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

That's a frightening pic you have in your post.....

THE AWOL CHIMPANZEE.

That tomato will soon be wearing a berka.

not!

Got the pic here. Check it out: http://www.liegirls.com/index.html

Video was great!

Funny that.

that it was a blue state vs. a red state?

Kef,
A Pacers fan, life-long Hoosier, proud resident of a Democratic district and hard-core liberal.

Remember: Kurt Vonnegut and Eugine Debs both came from Indiana. We also had several cities founded by Quakers and Socialist Utopianists. There's more to each state than just who ends up winning the Presidential vote. Blue state/Red state BS is just another way of dividing us and falling into the Right's hands.

Here's what a Red state leftist is able to do.

The Anti-war Speech That Earned
Eugene Debs 10 Years in Prison
http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/debs-speech.htm

"They have come to realize, as many of us have, that it is extremely dangerous to exercise the constitutional right of free speech in a country fighting to make democracy safe in the world."

Thanks for the link to the Debs speech - it makes this thread worthwhile. :)

...watch Fox blame the democrats. We're still "angry" ya'know:scared:

It was just a shoving match between players till some idiot fan decided to throw a beer at Ron Artest.

Courtside alcohol sales need to be banned. Scrawny ass insurance salesmen and accountants aren't nearly as likely to try and pick a fight with professional athletes when they aren't loaded up with "liquid courage."

Maybe there is some kind of "conservation of sports fighting" principle at work, with the NBA filling the gap.

Enjoy !!! There has been a serious lack of humorous sarcasm here lately. Glad to see that you are still full of life !!!

Thanks for brightening my day.

It is an honor.

in hockey, the players just punch each other, perhaps the bench empties, but you NEVER see the fans getting involved like this


:hippie: The Incorrigible Democrat

that seems to keep things separate - perhaps the new trend for basket-ball


btw - Happy 3rd Saturday of November... GO BLUE!!!!! :-)

First person to leave the bench to fight is automatically suspended,no ifs ands or buts.No appeals allowed.Other sports should follow suit.

Now,there has been some brawls involving all 12 players on the ice.Just ask Patrick Roy and Chris Not-Osgood as Patrick. :)

:thumbsup: :evilgrin:

After a fan waved a rubber chicken in his face. I think it was at the Garden in New York. A lot of Bruins players followed. One of them was beating up a fan with his own shoe.

In Madison WI one time in the 80's opposing players--- I think it was N. Dakota went into the stands. They got their asses kicked, after their helmets were torn off--- its hard to fight in the stands wearing skates.

And yes,it was in NY.

At least as pro's. That was insane. It's hard to lay blame. Some blame goes to Wallace who acted like an ass. He was throwing shit at Artest before the fans were.

A fan threw a beer at Artest. Artest shouldn't have gone into the stands, but :wtf: is wrong with the fans? Then the fans were throwing beer, soda, popcorn and fucking chairs right at the players. Some of the fans were even punching players from behind. It was all over the court and into the stands by the scorers table. Then some fan comes on the court towards Artest. Artest punches him. Then some other Pacer another guy on the court.

Fans are throwing shit at the players going into the tunnel. More fights start. Some Pacers player grabs one of those garbage collector things you see at a restaurant (long stick with a bucket) and is swinging it in the air. I guess he wanted to take out some fans.

There are going to be many many arrests. The security is also at fault here. There wasn't any. There were maybe 5 cops on the court. I bet if this happened in NY, the cops would have been beating players, fans, and coaches right on the court. Everyone would leave in cuffs or stretchers. Oh well. Good fight otherwise.

did you see at the Vibe show? They were more cops and security yet they didn't stop anything

That wasn't the LAPD. The NYPD is better organized and much more willing to fight.

granted the rappers had knives but what about those fat security guards? What a bunch of losers...so much for having bodyguards and security. All these guys have is their big fat bodies and angry look. Once the sh-t hits the fan, you might as well be alone.

rest of the country.

Never seen anything like that before - even the worst NHL brawls. Wow.

The Bruins were playing the Rangers in NY and the Bruins players went into the crowd.Mike Milbury was beating some fan with the fan's own shoe :)

Sanderson tried to retaliate with his stick. A fan got his stick away and started swinging it at Sanderson. Then about 10 Bruins players went into the stands.

I thought I'd seen it all after the snowball fight at Giant Stadium that knocked out an assistant coach...or after fans attacked an umpire at a White Sox game...or the chair-throwing incident at the Texas Rangers game a few months back.

I guess I was wrong.

This whole incident was seriously messed up. When I turned on ESPN this morning, I thought I was watching archival footage of a soccer riot.

alcohol.

Maybe they should stop selling beer at sporting events.

I agree :)

Those adrenalin fueled fans were throwing Coke and popcorn. Ban those too?

I am really surprised it hadn't happened before. The NBA fans are pretty much on the court and the NBA wants it that way. Those are expensive tickets.

But, Artest's behavior instigated and elevated the situation by doing another "outrageous" act like laying on the table. I wish Ben Wallace had clocked this stupid ass when he was in a prone position.

Artest should get a 10 game suspension, Stephen jackson who was wailing on fans may get even more. Ben Wallace will probably get 2 games and Rasheed a game.

Under no circumstance should players go into the stands and never should they throw punches, this will be a record setting fine and suspension spree.

The NBA is full of thugs and people you wouldn't waste time with in everyday life. Oh for the days of Magic, MJ, Bird, Joe Dumars etc...(at least they kept their fights ON THE COURT!)

to have the year off to promote his rap album, IMO. Jackson and O'neal also deserve long suspensions. The O'Neal sucker-punch on the guy on the court was nuts. I know the fan had approached Artest earlier but when O'Neal hit him it didn't look like there were any other players around.

The fans behaved like animals but I can't help thinking the whole thing would not have happened had Artest not gone into the crowd, where he had no business going.

What we're seeing is simply our new training approach to winning gold at the summer Olympics...

Artest has a history of cheap shots on other players fwiw----what's a player to do if some fan is throwing solid objects at them ? seems like self defense. Lots of blame to go around --lack of security,drunk fans out of control players---

threw the cup, probably not, IMHO. Wonder what the second guy said.

Artest, definitely backed down from Wallace. Wasn't Wallace's hit more of a hard two handed shove than a punch? I think that makes a difference regarding fines/suspensions.

Great instinctive camerawork on that cup throw, following it back to the throw-ee.

He came out in a boxing pose, I don't think he'll have much of a lawsuit on his hands.

was on sidelines. Aretest is a punk.

Many ball players: baseball, basketball, and football...get showered by stupid fans, yet they walk on. Artest is a hot head, hell, he didn't even know who did it, yet he runs through punching any fan in sight or a fan in the general area that the cup came from.

Top ten in scoring, #11 in FT%, plays hard defense and is #8 in NBA efficiency ranking.

I think a lot of people fail to realise that Ron Artest is a hell of a competitor who plays hard and sometimes lets his temper get the better of him. He's still young though, he's only 25. If he can get his temper under control he'll continue to be a fantastic player.

He IS a great player...but he's still an ass.

The guy he grabbed was the WRONG dude.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$crewed.

Artest, Miller, and Jackson should be suspended for a minimum of 20 games (no pay of course). The police and prosecutor should complete their investigations, and, if warranted (as I'm sure it will be), charge the appropriate (errr...inappropriate in this case) fans and players with assault. Then, trials ensue and jail terms/fines meted out.

What happened to personal responsibility for everyone?

flustered when Ben pushed him around. He lost his cool and over-reacted to fans bad behavior. Fan was wrong. But Ron should have been the professional. You know players around the league have to be snicerking right now what a wuss Artest is. He had to hit a fan -- could not face off against Wallace. Ben is more than just a big hairdoo.

That shown J. Miller punching the daylights of a fan on the court. The fan did not appear to be attacking Miller. In fact, Miller was coming up from the side of him.

Confused.

Sorry, alas I am the one that is confused. I do mean O'Neal. Mea culpa.

He got pushed hard by Wallace and didn't react. Which is good cause it showed a desire to try and control his temper.

I'd hit someone who threw beer at me.

Ever since the Simpson trial, especially on FOX News, wingo news never misses an opportunity to portray African Americans as violent savages, sexual predators, or drug addicts.

There were black fans hitting black players and white fans hitting black players. Black fans throwing beer at white coaches and white fans throwing beer at black coaches.

This was just a mess. Race had nothing to do with.

The players were black, the fans in the middle of it seem to be at laest 50 percent black, and the press that covers the NBA is the most racially diverse in sports.

This has nothing to do with race. It has to do with drunken fans, lack of security, and the simple fact that Ron Artest is out of his goddamn mind.

CNN was talking about how a gang of savage basketball players attacked the poor innocent fans.

The fans were completely out of control. There is no doubt about that. And Wallace overreacted to the foul.

But under no circumstances can Artest go into the stands after a fan. If you play pro sports, you are eventually going to get hit with a beer or something. It's unfortunate but it happens.

There are rules here. If a fan goes onto the field of play (like at th White Sox game), it's open season on them. But there is never a reason to go into the crowd after a fan.

Artest is going to be suspeneded for a long, long time.

of what was once a proud professional league that used to command respect is now complete...look for similar incidents like this in the future

is an attitude and not a dominant one in the NBA because it doesn't win championships. There are plenty of role models in the NBA. And plenty of these guys give back to the community.

This isolated incident is all about Artest -- who has been stirring controversy since the season started --- with his second career as a rap artist, his rants to the press, not to mention his cheap shots.

How can you knock streetball? It's the basketball laboratory. I look past the swagger and the tats. I love its innovation, its lingo, its vitality. From Connie Hawkins, to Allen Iverson... streetball breathed life into the game and keeps doing so.

will be Thugball. Don't blame the fans, these over paid athletes (?) should no better than to chase after the fans whether provoked or not. IMHO:bounce:

I disagree wholeheartedly with the term "overpaid". NBA players are no more overpaid than a plastic surgeon or the worker in the drive thru at McDonalds. People get paid what they are "worth" in a capitalist society.

Artest is still a great player. He's a fucking whack-job...but still a great player. His brain, if he's got one, is in his ass. If you watch these games at all, you'll know the way he fouled Wallace is no different than the other times he's fouled in the past & been suspended/ejected.

The real losers in this whole situation are the kids that were at the game and had to witness it all.

Look for more and more of these kinds of fights. As for the NBA-haters, understand that a very similar incident happened back in August in a baseball game between the Texas Rangers and Oakland A's. So, this kind of incident is not limited to just the NBA.

I've always felt that sports foreshadow changes in our society. Jackie Robinson's integration of baseball was a precursor to our own experiences with integration. Currently, there's a simmering resentment between fans and professional athletes in all sports largely because of the huge income gap between players and the fans.

This resentment is what fuels these brawls. A foreshadow of things to come in the non-sports world.

The income gap?

If I was makin what Artest was makin, I would have laughed in that punkfan's face for losing his $5 beer and sent my entourage to meet him at the door after the game.

You're not rich, I assume, and if you ever become rich, you'd have a life experience of not being rich to temper your attitudes. Artest has been wealthy ever since 2001. He's not matured. He doesn't really know what it's like to struggle for anything in life except the struggle to play basketball at a high level.

IOW, young men who just happen to be born with the right physical makeup-- height, speed, jumping ability-- are becoming immediately wealthy at a very young age, and they are living a life that's completely foreign to the every day fan. For example, take Latrell Sprewell's comments about wanting millions more money on his next contract because he has kids to feed. The resentment between professional athletes and fans will continue to swell.

But, take a long, good, hard look at this resentment, because you will see it in everyday life. We're very close to establishing a permanent wealth class of people who never have to work, never have to start their own business, and never have to contribute anything back in the form of taxes. The "ownership" class will soon become a reality. This is the class that will "own" things without paying any taxes on them.

If you think that pro athletes are spoiled and pampered, wait until you see the "ownership" class. At least pro athletes have to do some work.

and that in his rookie year in Chicago, he was looking for a part time job at Circuit City so he could take advantage of the employee's discount.
I heard from a friend in Chicago that the Artests were so poor that Ron had to steal food to survive...

The one problem I have with the fans is that they keep supporting the industry that they seem to "hate". For example, the fans last night were in the lowest sections in the stands, and thus were paying top dollar (my guess is at least $100/per). How can anyone complain about "high-paid" athletes when the only reason they are paid those huge salaries is because those seats keep getting bought?

who want to eliminate taxes on the wealthy, and push all of the taxes on labor.

Do you see the sports parallel?

that deserve such outrage, things more terrible and unjust and wrong that a fuckin basketball game.

Am I the only one who thinks that these fans' emotional and intellectual priorities are severely distorted?

Ben Wallace defended himself, and then all the Pacers lost their goddamn minds.
A cup of thrown water on you doesnt warrant a punch thrown like youre defending your life. And they kept on like fucking neighborhood thugs, just kicking the shit out of whoever went by.

The best was when they were being escorted out and everyone was dousing them with their drinks.

The Pistons have a new fan.
:spank:

;-)

:crazy:

A full cup of beer thrown from that height and at that speed hit just as hard as any sucker punch.

"And they kept on like fucking neighborhood thugs, just kicking the shit out of whoever went by."

Funny how the word "thug" always gets applied to black people. Especially when they're defending themselves.

Hey everyone... I'm new here <waving>

Anyway, I've been thinking perhaps those "fans" were GOP plants and Artez was in on it.

The GOP has done something similar in the past, like the fake riot to stop counting the votes in 2000. All of the "protesters" were found to have some direct tie to the Bush campaign.

This whole incident just seems very suspicious. Look at the video again and you will see how Artez just edged Ben Wallace on. And the so called fans were over the top. Almost scripted.

I guess we will not see the true cause of this brawl until we see who benefits the most.

at the Palace. I'll have to second guess taking the kids to a game, but I'll probably go ahead.

It all started with Artest.

It started when that fan threw a cup at a player.

I agree with that point. But Detroit sports fans just seem to be unable to help themselves from throwing things: beer, ice, cups, chairs, octopus...

:7

Perhaps we should be thankful that this incident happened early in the season instead of say perhaps a tight race for the title or a big play off game.

The fans should be penalized on their alcohol consumption, as well as the players that didn't maintain professionalism.