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Feathered Fish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 11:55 AM
Original message
Ukraine's PM declared winner of elections
Snip>

Kiev, Ukraine — Ukraine's election commission declared the Kremlin-backed prime minister, Viktor Yanukovych, the winner of the country's bitterly disputed presidential election, sharpening a crisis sparked by the opposition candidate's allegations that the vote was fraudulent.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20041124.w2ukraine1124/BNStory/International/


Well, folks, here you go...
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wasn't this the commission that seemed to be holding the line?
Saying they couldn't certify the results because of fraud?

I guess someone made them an offer they couldn't refuse.
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. No, they are in the pocket of the current government.
No one in their right mind would ever believe there was 96% turnout in Donetsk and other eastern Ukrainian cities. - K
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Nor 150% turnout in certain U.S. counties.
I recall reading about this. Not to mention tens of thousands of votes being "dropped" by machines, and a huge discrepancy between exit polls and the vote counts. And lets not forget lineups that discouraged voters by taking 4 hours or more to actually get to vote. Nor the immense numbers of ballots rejected for trivial reasons, such as a stray pencil mark. Or voting machines that counted the vote for the wrong party. Or crashed in mid vote. Or, the "drop the straight ticket" vote scam. Etc., etc., etc.

I guess I worry more about U.S. democracy being hijacked than Ukrainian democracy, although the latter shouldn't be ignored.
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Swede Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. Isn't the Ukraine in possession of nuclear weapons?
Civil strife could be very very bad.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I heard they gave them back to the Russians
Back in the 1990's. Someone else may have more up to date information, though.
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Nevernose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Personal pet peeve -- it's not "the" Ukraine
It's just plain "Ukraine."

Petty, I know. :)
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sounds like a civil war is on todays plate.
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AG78 Donating Member (840 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. Don't know who
I'd rather see win. Not that it's up to me.

Yushchenko is a pro-Western guy, and our government is for him. But how long would our corporations(or the WTO, etc) wait to get in there and privitize that country for whatever they have?

On the other hand, Yanukovych is Putin's guy, and he's running wild over there in Russia.

It all comes back to power and geopolitics. Those wonderful sphere's of influence. Russia wants to extend it's power again, and we want to keep Russia where it's at.

Human existence...war, conflict, and empire...it's faaaaantastic!
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. US Admin supporting UKRAINE exit polls, not our own though!
Know that the US backs Yushchenko, not Yanukovych - then check this out:

"On Monday, the election commission said that with 99.38 percent of precincts counted, Yanukovych had 49.42 percent to Yushchenko's 46.70 percent.

However, an exit poll conducted under a Western-funded program gave Yushchenko 54 percent of the vote to Yanukovych's 43 percent. Another poll put Yushchenko ahead by 49.4 to 45.9 percent.

(snip)

And in Washington, the White House issued a statement saying the United States is "deeply disturbed by extensive and credible indications of fraud committed in the Ukrainian presidential election."

Those of us here who doubt the US election should watch and support these people protesting there! They are setting a very good example.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/11/24/ukraine/index.html
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ilovenicepeople Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. These brave people in the Ukraine are,
Showing you what democracy looks like,some countries are actually willing to stand up for what the people want.Yes this is a poke at Americans lack of self preservation.I find that your country(USA) wants to wait till all your freedoms are gone before you will fight for them.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I'm fighting for my freedoms...eom
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-24-04 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes they are -
I've watched several clips of what most say are about 200,000 people stand bravely, even silently, in the freezing cold and simply BE their own statement.

I admit my own negligence in educating my son, assuming civics and political science education would give him an understanding of the power of the masses. In New York, we tried -half a million I'd say - and couldn't get the emotioinal response or media coverage to make the impression warranted.

How will we reawaken the "question everything" soul of true journalism and get at least half of them working with us again?
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