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Spazito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:22 PM
Original message
Disputed Ukraine election creates tensions between Russia and the West
MOSCOW (CP) - As the confrontation in Kyiv's streets escalates over Ukraine's presidential election, the crisis is casting a deepening shadow over relations between Russia, which favours official winner Viktor Yanukovych, and western countries that back liberal Viktor Yushchenko's demands for a vote recount.

"A Ukrainian domestic election has jumped to the centre of a big geopolitical storm because Russia and the West have put stakes on opposite sides," says Sergei Strokan, a foreign policy expert with the liberal Moscow daily Kommersant.

snip

Western Ukrainians, who have spent much of their history honing a strong sense of national identity under Polish and Austro-Hungarian rule, strongly favour Yushchenko's plans to steer Ukraine into NATO and the European Union as rapidly as possible.

But half the country's 48 million people live in the industrial eastern zones, which were part of Russia and the U.S.S.R. for more than 300 years, and many of them speak no Ukrainian and identify most closely with the Russian population just across the recently established border.

more (very long, 2 page article)

http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.html?id=cafc621e-4dc7-4d02-9560-c765808739f2&page=2
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StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hey Russia time to back the EURO or even
Join the EU!
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Wright Patman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. So the "pro-Western"
candidate is a "damned lib'rul" huh? How are Hannity and Limbaugh going to be able to explain why we are supporting a lib'rul?

Also, Pooty-Poot and Shrub are soulmates. Why are they not on the same page here? The cognitive dissonance is approaching "exploding head" proportions.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I don't get it. Yushchenko is not lib'rul.
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 12:38 PM by lizzy
Whatever gave you this idea? If anything, they are very nationalistic and religious. The idea of a gay marriage, for instance, would be completely alien to them.
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Geez, Lizzy, you are just getting too transparent. You talk more
like a freeper with every post. Instead of presenting us with any facts or links, any evidence of any kind, you simply spout out hot button issues like any RW nutjob would. So, perhaps they are not for gay marriage (please provide evidence of this) and that AUTOMATICALLY makes them non-liberal (whatever the hell a liberal is)!? You are definitely going on the ignore list at this point. - K
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Sure, sure. Put me on ignore.
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 05:16 PM by lizzy
Obviously, you rather ignore an opinion if it's not
the same as your own.
Here is one link with a different opinion.
http://www.antiwar.com/blog/more.php?id=1494_0_1_0_M
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Oh God NO>....NOT RELIGIOUS
How can anyone be liberal and religious too?? Mindblowing I tell ya!
Nationalistic? Yah they want to be the Ukraine rather than a Russian satelite...damn them.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. What exactly does liberal means to you?
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 10:24 PM by lizzy
Why are these people liberal??????

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UncleSepp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. I don't think that word means what he thinks it means
Liberal in this context means economic change away from a controlled economy, among other things, but it does not mean what it means in the US at all. In this political context, both Republicans and Democrats would be "liberal", Republicans even more so.

Here's a good Wiki on the word:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Please read it, for pity's sake. For different definitions of the word, you're all right.
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AG78 Donating Member (840 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. All about power
Then again, what isn't?

"candidate is a "damned lib'rul" huh? How are Hannity and Limbaugh going to be able to explain why we are supporting a lib'rul?"

Doubt they'll have to. Their listeners probably don't know who or what a Ukraine is, with the outside possiblity of the sitting duck in Risk. Plus whatever Bush does is sent directly from God, so who is anyone to question our leader?

And if this administration(and their political movement as a whole) supports someone, it's quite likely it's because they'll allow the privitization of society, and let the multi-national corporations own anything they want.

"Also, Pooty-Poot and Shrub are soulmates. Why are they not on the same page here? The cognitive dissonance is approaching "exploding head" proportions."

They may both be power hungry authoritarians, but that doesn't mean they don't want more power.

Putin wants Russia to expand it's power base again. And the US wants to keep Russia from gaining any more power, and to open up more areas for corporate exploitation.
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Is there a "crisis" because Ukraine has oil reserves that each superpower
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 12:37 PM by no_hypocrisy
wants to control? I find it hard to believe this controversy is based on principles alone.
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LisaL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. No doubt.
It is not about principles.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Don't forget Vietnam.
There was offshore oil.
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Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. how would you know?
You don't think anyone has any if they don't agree with yours. God forbid people should decide their own fate.
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gordianot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
6. Putin's biggest kick for * would be to call Putin a Communist.
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 12:58 PM by gordianot
Then Rice's doctorate would not be irrelevant. It would be Putin's greatest gift to Bush (who has looked into Putin's soul). I wonder if he found some brotherhood there?

A little East West rivalry is good for the blood and maybe would end the need for terrorism on American soil. Bring back the good old days of NATO alliances. It might even take peoples minds off the war on terra now that Osama is no longer in Pakistan.

OOPS I forgot about Iraq.

What happens if we find Osama has moved to Iran, watch out!

These people are playing us all for the fools we are.
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Sara Beverley Donating Member (989 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. This is playing right into Russia's hands. Nothing works better than a
threatening common enemy that "disses" you.
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jmcgowanjm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Ukraine, so near to Russia


http://www.templetonthorp.com/en/news504

EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana said there had been
frank discussion on all issues including Ukraine's
energy policies, which could take much-needed oil away
from EU countries in favour of delivering Russian
oil.
Last week, Ukraine's state oil transit company
Ukrtransnafta said it would reverse the EU-
supported Odessa-Brody pipeline, filling it with Russian
crude exports to the Mediterranean instead of sending
Caspian oil to Europe.
But now the ball was in Ukraine's court, and the bloc
would watch which way the ministers took, Solana
said.
"Sure if the oil goes one way, it goes there and not to us,"
he said, adding that could hurt relations.


http://www2.pravda.com.ua/en/archive/?3108-1-new

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