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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:11 PM
Original message
Victims Recant, Accused Molester Freed
CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- A man who was accused of molesting more than a dozen children in North Carolina has been set free after 14 years behind bars because the victims recanted.
James Bernard Parker wept as he walked out of a Brooklyn, N.Y., courthouse on Monday and embraced a sister he hadn't seen in 15 years. He had been given three life terms plus 60 years in prison for charges of molesting four children.

"I've paid a price I shouldn't have had to pay," said Parker, 44. "I didn't do those crimes."

When Parker was charged in 1990, authorities said at least 19 children had been attacked in Monroe, where he lived. Police found no physical evidence, even though children told stories of being tied to trees and fed poisoned ice cream. They also gave a wide range of descriptions of their attacker.
...
The Charlotte Observer ran stories in 2002 in which 15 reported victims and witnesses said the crimes never happened or that Parker wasn't the attacker. The only three boys who testified against Parker have since signed affidavits saying Parker didn't commit the crimes.

In May, Parker pleaded guilty to reduced charges in the sex crimes in exchange for the state's promise to free him. Immediately afterward, he denied committing the crimes.

"I never molested any children," he said. Pleading guilty was "the only way I could get out."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-re-examined-rapes,0,4123495.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Someone needs to pay for this.
Monstrous.

But, I suspect there is a pretty good lawyer in NC who could litigate the hell out of this. Kinda short. Good looking. Whip smart.
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Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Someone should pay alright.
Lets start with the false accusers. Take all their assets and give them jail time.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. They were children
It appears there actually were attacks (hard to tell from the article)-just not by him. With "a wide range of descriptions" given, looks like the error was the govt's.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
34. Influenced by adults!
Children don't invent such accusations in a vacuum.
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Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. Must read, very comprehensive, unbelievable
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:g5BSf3vUQXkJ:www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/4745575.htm+James+Sonny+Rogers+CHARLOTTE,+OR+N.C.&hl=en&lr=lang_en


• Jurors never heard the widely differing descriptions of the attackers, or children's initial conflicting stories, gathered by school counselors and police in dozens of interviews.

Nine reported victims and witnesses initially told police or school counselors at least one of their attackers was white. Records show one girl said she was attacked by a white man, then within a week identified Parker, who is black, from a photo lineup

A brother and sister, who said a white man raped them, say police didn't ask many questions or show them a photo lineup.

"They made like they couldn't do nothing," says the sister, 18, who asked not to be identified. "So I put it in the past and moved on. ... I would like justice."

Authorities showed a photo lineup containing Parker's picture to a 6-year-old girl who said she was raped at the Icemorlee apartments. She pointed to a picture of another man, her uncle. He's now serving a life sentence for raping her.


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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. It portrays the same rabid, insane witch-hunt mentality ...
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 02:11 PM by TahitiNut
... that's been seen too often. East Wenatchee, WA is an example. The people who, vested with a public trust, engage in these travesties should be penalized severely. That said, there should be no delay in compensating the victims of such travesties. Any delay or avoidance in seeking a prosecution of wrongdoing in their wrongful prosecution should not be an excuse to delay compensation of the victim.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
32. We should ALL pay.
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 10:43 AM by TahitiNut
Victims of such miscarriages of justice, under our 'justice system,' should be compensated directly and immediately by the People. The separate (criminal) prosecution of the false accusers and possible (civil) reimbursement of the People must not and should not delay or impact the size of such compensation.

We must not abdicate our common responsibility for the efficacy of our justice system. It would be a parody of 'justice' to place the total burden for prosecution of such wrongs on the back of the victim. We do not do so in other criminial matters, and false testimony in the justice system is also an assault on the People, since it threatens everyone.
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Liberaltarian Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #32
36. the People of the state that convicted him should pay-
not the entire country.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. The plaintiff: "the People of ..."
Clearly, I think, the plaintiff should compensate the victims of a miscarriage of justice arising from the plaintiff's false (or misleading) testimony. Whether it's "the People of the State of ___ v. (person)" or "the People of the United States v. (person)," the nominated plaintiff should be the source of compensation. If the 'People' then, in a separate action, litigate against others for their wrongful behavior, that's a separable action.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #32
55. "Rich Man's Justice"
or 'white man's justice' if you prefer.

This article (http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:g5BSf3vUQXkJ:www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/4745575.htm+James+Sonny+Rogers+CHARLOTTE,+OR+N.C.&hl=en&lr=lang_en) lays out exactly how and why a conviction happened. If the defense attorney in the case were committed to serving his client and the law, the case probably would have had a different outcome.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
2. Lawsuits! And criminal trials for the police, prosecutors and jurors.
Let's have some accountability here. This man should never have to work again. He should have the right to enjoy the rest of his life, free from economic worries ever again. Then the cops and prosecutors in this case should face felony charges of conspiracy, fraud and obstruction of justice. The jurors from the trial should all face charges of criminal negligence too.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Ship all those fuckers to Iraq for 7 yerars
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
24. criminal charges for the jurors?
are you nuts?!?!?!? Do you KNOW where that would lead?!?!?!
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Rush1184 Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
38. That would be a scary precedent...
"The jurors from the trial should all face charges of criminal negligence too."

When talking about legal matters, it is important to look past emotion, while you may feel anger at jurors, the prospect of punshing them for their interpretation of the evidence would undermine the whole concept of trial by jury.
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
56. The jurors only hear what the judge allows. eom
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private_ryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. call me stupid
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 10:28 PM by private_ryan
but I would support the death penalty (after warning them that if they lie this waits them) for false accusations of this kind. It's worse than the molestation itself, becuase it hurts future victims too.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I don't support the death penalty
But how would that work? Would it have to be a female officer who looks the child in the eyes and says, "Ok, now are you sure about this? Because if you're wrong, we're going to kill you"

That would seem to be damaging for future victims as well.
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private_ryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. well not kids
I should've said that. Adults yes. If not death at least 30-life in jail. Imagine how the falsely accused feels

Warn them that they have 2 hours to tell the truth /retract any false accusations and suffer no consquences or...

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toopers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
65. Actually, the death penalty for lying is a possibility . . .
in a death penalty case - at least for officers testifying against the defendent.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. you have a point..they just do the same amount of time in the same type of
prison.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. So, more like this?
The police officer/compassionate juvenile worker bends to speak to the child: "Are you sure? If you're wrong, we'll lock you up in a prison. You wouldn't like that, would you?"

Keep in mind that this could be a 7 or 8 yr old who actually *has* been molested.

That is MADNESS. It is up to the investigating adults to evaluate witnesses and to present cases.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
27. Exactly.
Eight Common Misconceptions About Child Sexual Abuse:
http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/Research/myths2/myths2.html
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. I was a Juvenile Parole Officer.I WILL NOT EVER be alone with any children
under any curcumstances.. they are liers and also are just little cesspools of disease. only time i am ever sick is when someone elses kid blows snot on me not covering his mouth when they are sick.

I can not stand children anymore...

if anyone ever dumps their kids on you and splits to get free babysitters.. CALL CHILDRENS SERVICES...CALL THE POLICE..report them abandoned !! i have done it twice.. they wont do it again.
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KenCarson Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. before they leave just ask if you can sell the kid for parts
that usually makes them find someone else to "babysit"
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. You don't work with children anymore, do you?
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Bat Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #8
29. Dude, you may want to look for another line of work...
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 10:30 AM by Bat Boy
on edit: Sorry. Seemed to have missed the word "was."
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genieroze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
62. Holy Crap, What kind of kids do you see?
How old were they? A Parole Officer? Do you mean probation officer? I don't think we have parole officers in my state for kids. They have JISP Juvenile Intense Special Probation, which is close. These are for the real juvenile delinquent kids, like assault with a weapon, armed theft, constant minor offenses. Is that the kind of kids you had?
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. These responses make me puke!
Edited on Tue Nov-30-04 10:41 PM by autorank
I feel like I'm reading Free Republic. Death penalty, confiscation of assets, exile to Iraq!

ALL BASED ON A LINK TO A 'CORPORATE MEDIA' PAPER PEOPLE HER ARE SO FOND OF DISCREDITING; REGARDING A CASE NOBODY WHO HAS COMMENTED, I'LL BET, KNOWS ONE DAMN THING ABOUT

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Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. 7 links for you
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private_ryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
68. go ahead and puke
how would you feel if you're falsely accused of raping a baby? or 20 of them in a day care center?
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Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
11. The kids admitted lo telling a lie
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
20. Thanks for the image. I'm sure glad he's out now, anyway. n/t
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Heddi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-30-04 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. That is *SO* fucked up
As someone who was molested as a child, I am saddened when those of us (like me) tell the truth and we are not believed.

As a human being, I am saddened when those of us (like this man) tell the truth and are not believed.

I feel horribly for this man and have nothing but absolute disgust and scorn for false accusers of any crime, but especially for false accusers of such painful and personal crimes of rape and sexual assault/molestation. They do nothing but make REAL victims even LESS believable than society already deems we are, and makes it MORE difficult for real live rapists who actually DO rape to get proper sentencing.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
35. That's exactly why we, as the People, must compensate ...
... victims of false accusations. It must be severed from the prosecution (if any) of the false accusers themselves.

This is a special kind of harm. It is a harm arising from our system of justice itself, in our 'best attempt' to mitigate such harms. The system itself bears the greatest of the responsibility for miscarriages, once such accusations are brought within that system. If the accusations are made outside the system of justice, then civil action can be undertaken ("person v. person") and mediated by the system. When, however, we the People act against a falsely-accused person, it's a matter of "the People vs. person" and the wrongs of "the People" should be the responsibility of "the People."
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
54. any prosecutor who willingly and knowingly
pushes forward with a child sexual abuse case where there is so much glaring inconsistencies in the stories of the alleged 'victims' without doing complete and thorough independent investigations, censuring police officers who blatantly disregard testemony to the contrary of what agenda they're trying to advance, causing an innocent person to be imprisioned and forced to forfeit their life, livelihood, good name and reputation should be disbarred, brought to trial for his actions, forced to pay a crippling fine and never be allowed to practice law or go near any job in the justice realm ever again in life.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. While I agree ...
... that does not and should not delay or impede generous compensation of the victim. In a criminal prosecution, it's "the People v. ..." and (we) the People should pay for wrongful prosecution in our name. It's too easy to assign blame and stop at that. Unless we commit ourselves to being responsible for the errors and abuses of the justice system that operates in our name, we'll never get it fixed. If we merely let the (Russian roulette) "luck of the draw" determine who bears the disproportionate harm of those errors and abuses, we have no moral right to call ourselves a 'nation' or a democracy.
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SemperEadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #60
67. oh, I totally agree with you
the victim in cases such as these should be generously compensated. There is nothing that can spin the earth backwards to the moment before the police knocked on his door at the start of the nightmare.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
17. 15 years ago
Those were the days when prosecutors were being hailed as heros for uncovering "rings of child molesters," even though some of the stories that the kids told were unbelievable and should have yielded physical evidence if true, e.g. babies buried in the woods, children being penetrated with unusual objects.

I know people who actually were molested in childhood, but the media and hysterical parents created a witch hunt atmosphere in some communities.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Yes, I agree.
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 09:24 AM by bemildred
Maybe it's the hysterical witch-hunt that is the wrong approach
to this problem. Reminds me of the drug issue a little, there
is a real problem there, but does the use of media circuses and
the criminal justice system really help solve it? Does putting
children in the middle of a giant media/criminal-justice circus
really "help" those children deal with whatever harm may have been
done to them? Why can't we be less emotional and hysterical about
these problems when they crop up?
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
19. The former prosecutor refuses to admit he screwed up....
James "Sonny" Rogers, the lead investigator on the case for the Monroe police, told The Observer that he still believes Parker molested children in Monroe, which is about 25 miles southeast of Charlotte.

"The victims and their families have to live with whatever's happened. I did my job," said Rogers, now a church pastor.
How typical. They ALWAYS refuse to publically admit they've harmed an innocent person. They ALWAYS maintain the guy is still the scum of the earth. Damn their nasty hides.

How lucky the people in his congregation must feel to have such a vicious liar for a minister. He may as well be a Falwell or Robertson.
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
59. Think that's bad?
Well, it is, but check this one out...

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/14/State/Guilty_until_proven_i.shtml

Everyone is is evil except for the one guilty as charged.
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Stuckinthebush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. Kind of like a 1990s version of the Salem Witch trials
A group of children accuse people of doing terrible things and the authorities believe them.

Good thing this guy wasn't killed for his "crimes".

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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. This is exactly why I'm against the death penalty
Do some crimes *deserve* the death penalty?
My emotions say yes.

My head then reminds me that people lie, people are sometimes confused, people sometimes remember wrong, etc.

Innocent people get convicted....sometimes.
Innocent people get executed.....sometimes.

One is reversible, the other is not.
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Minstrel Boy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
23. The "children are liars" chorus is tragically uninformed.
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 09:32 AM by Minstrel Boy
Or perhaps, because murder investigations are occassionally overturned when witnesses and victims recant testimony, there are no such things as murders?

Here's a for instance:


U.S. government mind control programs, like MK-Ultra and Monarch, directed against helpless victims--human guinea pigs--have been virtually ignored by the Big Media Cartel. On Feb. 27, 1999, however, U.S. District Court Judge Warren Urbom found former Franklin S&L manager Lawrence E. King guilty of numerous crimes committed against mind control victim Paul A. Bonacci.

King, serving a 15-year sentence for his role in the theft of $40 million from Franklin, an Omaha, Neb., credit union, was ordered by Judge Urbom to pay Bonacci $800,000 in compensatory damages and an additional $200,000 in punitive damages.

This legal judgement against a notorious perpetrator of satanic-ritual child abuse is unprecedented. In the Memorandum of Decision, Judge Urbom wrote, "King continually subjected the plaintiff to repeated sexual assaults, false imprisonment, infliction of extreme emotional distress, organized and directed satanic rituals, forced the plaintiff to 'scavenge' for children to be a part of the defendant King's sexual abuse and pornography ring, forced the plaintiff to engage in numerous sexual contacts with the defendant King and others and participate in deviate sexual games and masochistic orgies with other minor children.

"He has suffered burns, broken fingers, beatings of the head and face and other indignities by the wrongful actions of the defendant King," the judge declared. "In addition to the misery of going through the experiences just related over a period of eight years <1980-1988>, the plaintiff has suffered the lingering results to the present time. "He is a victim of multiple personality disorder, involving as many as 14 distinct personalities aside from his primary personality," wrote the judge.

The Franklin sex scandal tried in court

More on the Franklin scandal

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. No one is saying that such abuse never happens
However, in the cases I was referring to above, the kids told stories that SHOULD have left physical evidence. If a child is raped by an adult, for example, there will be vaginal or anal injuries. If a baby is sacrificed, there should be a missing baby somewhere and remains to be found.

There was a case near the Twin Cities (Jordan, MN) back in the 1980s or so, and a prosecutor became a huge media hero for "uncovering" a "ring" of child molesters who performed unspeakable acts of abuse. Now rings of child molesters surely exist, but in this case, as I read the news accounts, I kept wondering, "Were any of these kids ever examined for physical evidence?" But the media were silent on that point, and I never found out.

The author Andrew Vachss is an attorney specializing in child abuse cases as well as a mystery writer, and when he spoke in Portland a few years ago, I asked him whether he believed in Satanic ritual abuse. He said that in his opinion, "ordinary" pedophiles threatened their victims with the devil coming to get them if they told, and the kids' imaginations did the rest.

In one of the supposed Satanic ritual abuse cases, the mother of one of the alleged victims, who did not press charges, said that her son's story matched a movie he had watched on cable.

In the case you referred to, Minstrel Boy, it sounds as if there was plenty of physical evidence.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. What's interesting though...
is how much press the cases with false accusations get compared to the many, many more cases where the accusations are true. Further, folks who work with abused kids are used to seeing adult family members refuse to believe the child, even when the physical evidence is overwhelming and matches the child's story. Thus, when the press focuses on stories like this, while failing to cover the majority of cases, where the children tell the truth, some people are going to worry about how this plays into popular perception, and how it might play into the hands of abusers, who use this "natural" disbelief in children to their advantage.
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #49
57. There are plenty of cases in the news where the children are believed
As well they should be if in fact there was a crime and they have the right person.

Rarely do we hear stories that contradict the "guilty until proven innocent" mantra.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. Whatever you say.
I know the numbers of abused children, and the number of convictions, and I know that most cases never make the media like this case does. So, sorry, but there are not "plenty of cases in the news." Not by a longshot.
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-02-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. HuckleB, maybe we are talking apples and oranges
What I mean is, a google search for "Megan's Law":

Results 1 - 10 of about 81,300 for "megan's law".

That is a lot of hits. However, a search for:

Results 1 - 10 of about 3,170 for DNA innocent molester.

That is a very general search that includes ANY site that contains those terms in any context. How many of those 3,170 are hits are on false reports or mistaken allegations? More to the point with this thread, how many of them offer insights into the corruption of power by the state?

I'm not posting this in an effort to argue against the protection of children at all, but am suggesting that the balance of power between the state and defendant's rights sure seems to weigh heavily on the side of the state. Victim's rights is now big business and only a few defense attorneys speak from the other side of the equation. If not for Barry Scheck and The Innocence Project, many innocent people would be in prison, most on death row. Their voice is small in comparison.
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Liberaltarian Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
25. children should NOT be able to testify in molestation cases. PERIOD.
If the only evidence the prosector has to go on is the word of a child, or even a hundred children- there should be NO case.
children LIE, and suffer no consequences for it.

It's better that 100 guilty people go free, than for 1 innocent person to be jailed wrongly.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. That is going to far IMHO
I do not think they should testify IN COURT if they are under the age of about 10 or so, but I DO think children's complaints about adults should be taken seriously.

Children do lie, but they also tell the truth. These cases need to be investigated more carefully than they are, and the child needs to be "investigated" at the same time. Talk to teachers,relatives, etc. Is the kid known to be reliable or a liar?

I think it is possible and necessary to catch molesters.

My family has dealt with molestation, and it is a serious problem with serious consequences.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Indeed.
Eight Common Misconceptions About Child Sexual Abuse:
http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/Research/myths2/myths2.html
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. How do we know that site is really "science"?
For example, they say "Recovered Memories: True or False?" is true. This is still a matter up for debate.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. Where does it say that?
Dr. Salter is no hack. the research done by Salter is as good as it gets. As for recovered memories, the "debate," if any leans toward looking upon them very, very suspiciously.
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. Link from their site:
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #58
63. That's an analysis on the issue by one doctor.
It notes the research related to it, but it makes no claims as to any final validity. And it does show that no professional organization recognizes it as a diagnosis.

Nevermind that this has nothing to do with Dr. Salter's work at all. And, yes, this site contains a great deal of very valid, honest research.
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Liberaltarian Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #30
33. I'm saying that there needs to be PROOF-
and more than just the words of a child.
like i said, i'd MUCH rather see 100 guilty molesters go free, than for 1 innocent man to spend 15 years behind bars.
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
52. re: Children Lying
I can think of one reason a kid would lie in this instance: they were more afraid of revealing the true assailant than they were getting caught in a lie about a false one. And the authorities can help that.

When I was a kid (and a victim of molestation), had I been questioned nothing in the world could have dragged me to name those responsible. Nothing. OTOH, had I been offered an easy alternative, say, a societal outcast, I would have.
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HuckleB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
26. It would be interesting to know what interview techniques were used...
Edited on Wed Dec-01-04 10:23 AM by HuckleB
at that time, especially, investigators were frequently quite leading in their questions.

http://www.ipt-forensics.com/library/images1.htm

Much has changed, at least in many parts of the country, however.

More:

Eight Common Misconceptions About Child Sexual Abuse:
http://www.leadershipcouncil.org/Research/myths2/myths2.html
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patcox2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
37. The satanic ritual cult abuse industry strikes again!
There is a strange little "cult" out there, mostly consisting of fundamentalist believers who work in law enforcement, the members of which beleive that there are large mysterious networks of satan-worshipping child abusers, who sexually abuse (and even sacrifice) children in satanic rituals.

These people are completely batshit insane, and live in a paranoid world of delusion.

They are also taken seriously; they are allied with the rest of the "beleive the children" crowd that fomented the witch-hunts of the 80s, such as the McMarten case.

They hold seminars, they train people to be child sex abuse victim interviewers, they train cops to investigate these imaginary crimes. They offer taxpayer funded seminars to brainwash your local police departments into beleiving this crap, and they teach the police how to use interrogation techniques which are responsible for the false accusations (suggestive techniques which elicit what the "interviewer" wants to hear, it has been proven by many studies that children are very susceptible to these techniques).

Its an insane little subculture of so-called therapists and law enforcement people who have made this an industry, and their mantra is "believe the children" and "children never lie." Its an insane world we live in.
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xerox Donating Member (143 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
40. Hey
he said he did not do it. So he must be innocent!
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Are you talking about the cop? n/t
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
41. So, people who advocate castration...
how do you feel about it now?
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almostallhere Donating Member (124 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #41
53. fine, if the castration is chemical
because it's 100% reversible
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
45. well I'm one of those death penalty supporters. so I have some egg
on my face. but I'm still a supporter.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #45
50. Which scares me
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George_S Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Why?
Nothing like the execution of a few innocent people for deterrent's sake.

<sarcasm>
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
61. The mistake we all make is thinking the criminal justice system.....

......has anything to do with "justice".

The criminal justice system in america is all about winning and losing. A prosecuter's political future is determined by his/her winning record. A defence attorney's fees are determined by his/her winning record.

Prosecuters will break the law by not disclosing exculpetory evidence to the defense among the many ways they cheat. And prosecuters who do wrong like this almost never are called to pay for their wrongs.

I much prefer the british way. Nobody has any stake in the outcome except to do the best they can for the client, whether the client be the crown or the accused.

Just another change to be made come the revolution.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-01-04 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
66. Never should have come to trial
With such variant and unreliable accounts, this should never have even seen the inside of a courtroom. Prosecutors who push cases like this despite the lack of evidence are doing so for their own political advancement, and need to be promptly disbarred.
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