Cash-strapped Germany to shut door on Russian Jews

Times
From Roger Boyes in Berlin
GERMANY is to restrict the number of Russian Jews entering the country, putting an end to a policy that helped to create one of Europe’s fastest-growing and most dynamic Jewish communities.

The new ruling, expected to come into effect in January 2006, is prompted partly by a need to save money but also because of fears that the rapidly expanding Jewish community could stir anti-Semitic sentiment in Germany.

Under the new rules, acutely sensitive in the country where the Holocaust was planned, Russian Jews over the age of 45 will no longer be allowed to settle in Germany. Nor will those living on unemployment benefits or social welfare.

Would-be immigrants will have to provide a certificate confirming their Jewish identity issued by their local Russian Jewish community. “Only rich, young Jews will be welcome in Germany,” said a report in the Berliner Zeitung, quoting a member of the Berlin Jewish community.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,170-1410134,00.html

SOUNDS familiar.....isn't this how it started in the 1930s?

I guess they figure the rich ones will have more good stuff they can plunder after they set up the ghettoes again.

And isn't it nice how they're already setting up a way to identify Jews easily?

"Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it."

Germany is taking its lessons from the U.S. now.

I do not blame any government that takes actions to protect the retirement programs of thier own elderly over foriegners that move in and imedietly start 'cashing in' when they have not put in a single dime.

Germans are not stupid.

if the US had a program only allowing rich hispanics to emmigrate I don't think you'd be so understanding. But Americans are stupid so it'll never happen.

New Zealand has similar policies and so do others.

I think moost Americans who have looked into moving abroad realize that "rich and young" are prerequisites to immigration in many European countries. Nations with socialized medicine and retirement systems simply cannot afford to allow unlimited immigration of elderly populations.

program (as well as other social programs) are under heavy strain. I think Germans may start making it more difficult to emigrate there from anywhere, not just Russia.

Schroeder proposed cuts to some social programs a year or two ago and the average Joe (or would it be Hans?) did not take kindly to the proposed entitlement cuts.

unless you have a means of supporting yourself. It's the same in most countries.

getting benefits like Medicaid and Social Security in our community in Massachusetts. They were brought over by their children who immediately get mom and dad on the state benefits and in subsidized housing. I work for an agency that provides services to elders in the community, so I know of which I speak.
There are a lot of Americans who could benefit from these programs but are a few dollars a month too high to qualify. It really burns me up sometimes, especially as the Russians' kids are unwilling to help their parents out in any way, they expect the state to provide everything.
And no flames, please, I'm a raging liberal.

there were government programs to help Jews emigrant. They didn't need to be observant. Many came over with their kids. In Rochester the local Jewish Family Services helped sponsor them; they had English classes for them at the Jewish community center. (My wife and I helped teach those least proficient in English.)

That was discontinued a while back.

Or do they want their entitlements for free? No such thing as free when it's paid for by tax collections.

I wouldn't have a problem with this if they just stopped allowing ANY immigrants over 45 or living on welfare benefits. My problem is, Why the hell only Jews? Are we seeing history repeat itself over there? :scared:

..the real situation there, since 1989 to 2000 there have been more then 50,000+ Jews immigrating to Germany from Rusia specificaly.

There may be enormous amount of Rusians posing as Jews to enter Germany, and this has opened the flood gates.

The Germans need to do something about it, that article posted by original poster is not viewable unless you register too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1405763.stm

Like in any other country, immigration in Germany is restricted.

Russian Jews had been granted a special immigration quota. Because that had caused problems (200.000 immigrants, many, if not most of them on welfare), it has been revoked.

There are only very few exceptions from this rule, asylants (but that is difficult) and, temporarily, refugees from a civil war.

That Jews are allowed to come in is an exception, a concession made due to our history.

First of all, let's put that decision into some perspective: Germany has become the country with the largest number of Jewish immigrants - yes, even more immigrants than Israel.

Next thing is, Germany has restrictions immigration on many countries - you can't just come there, if you want to. Most other countries do the same. In fact, Germany had relaxed these laws for Russian Jews, putting up a special quota. That has caused a variety of problems, especially for the Jewish communities, because more than three-quarters of the immigrant Jews were reliant on welfare payments.

You might read some information from these sites, before you fall in the stereotypical German bashing.

http://www.berlin-judentum.de/englisch/immigration.htm
http://www.deutsche-welle.de/dw/briefs/0,1574,1432444,00.html
http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/archives/background/jews.html

of *anyone*. That's just the way it is.

Is Putin emulating Alexander III? "We are living in the Diaspora" regains currency.

and the German Jewish Community (the fastest growing in the world, BTW). Lines about historic parallels are uninformed and dumb.

Our policy has been to be open for refugees. Unfortunately this has been restricted all over Europe for financial reasons. A great many Russians have been coming to Germany in the past simply because life is easier in Germany, not because they're fleeing anything. Among them many Jews who COULD emigrate to Israel. They spoke/speak no German, cannot find jobs. Social welfare which in Germany is being paid by the communities pays for their housing, clothes, food, heat etc. The communities are having more and more debts, tax income lowers while unemployment and social welfare costs rise.
The restriction on immigration is being planned in accordance with the German Jewish Agency. New rules: immigrants must speak German which I find understandable, must be not over 45 - because anybody older than that can't find a job here (actually if you're over 35 you need not even apply) - and be able to work. That doesn't sound very cruel to me.
I really see no need to worry here at all.

IF history repeats itself the victims this time will not be Jews but Turks. There is agitation against Muslims all over the western world - and we know out of which direction THIS wind blows. I'm pretty worried about that.

You mean the wind that periodically blows out of the current neonazi movement and results in attacks like the arson attack that killed the Turks in northern Germany a few years back?

Your insinuation that the U.S. is the origin of a lot of agitation against the Muslim world is correct, but the U.S. is hardly the only source of it. I suspect for many Christian nations, that it is quite convenient to have the U.S. leading the pack at this time.

As tolerant as many Germans are, there is still a hard core of profoundly intolerant people in Germany today. While it may be easy to discount them, IMO, it is not wise to do so, for they include some quite influential people in their ranks.*

Perhaps I am too naive, but I am astounded by the number of people I've spoken to in Europe (not just Germany) who still believe that the Jews somehow brought the Holocaust upon themselves even while the same people declare what a terrible thing it was. For me, this requires at least as much hypocrisy as Americans who on the one hand mourn their 9-11 losses, and on the other hand wish war on an Iraqi people who had nothing to do with 9-11.

What do these two periods in the then and now prove? Not much, other than that probably any society or culture anywhere can be led by the wrong people into committing terribly wrongful acts.

So, "no need to worry" doesn't really wash. We - all - need to worry, and watch for signals that things are heading the wrong way, whether we're in the U.S., Germany, or Zimbabwe.

Cheers and Fröhe Weihnachten

BH

* - my favorite example of this being a large construction firm in southern Germany. Their firm's logo is the name of the founder, and contrives to make quite obvious the letters "SS" (to the extent that the "SS" is in a different color than the rest of the name). A check of the name of the firm leads to a man who was an SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer. Obviously, one can hardly blame the son of this man for carrying on the family business. But, in modern Germany, I find the tastelessness and offensiveness of the firm's logo to be astounding. And I doubt very much the design of the logo is simply a bad joke -- it is more likely a way of signaling those who still sympathize with the old regime that this firm is one they can do business with. It would be an offensive thing in any case. But it is downright worrisome when one realizes this firm has to be worth many millions of Euro. And yes, the head of the firm is involved in politics <sigh>

You start with: "No need to worry? You mean the wind that periodically blows out of the current neonazi movement and results in attacks like the arson attack that killed the Turks in northern Germany a few years back?"

But blackhorse: I had already said that IF history should repeat itself the victims would be the Turks, hadn't I?

What I meant - and I thought wrote - was no more than that: that this restriction on Jewish immigration is nothing to worry about. THAT has definitely nothing to do with anti-semitism. Quite the contrary. Small and densely populated Germany has never been an immigration country. Migration of Russian Jews has been a - benevolent - exception already. We now see that this has had damaging affects so we are restricting it, we are not even making it impossible. Refugees are a totally different matter.

You write: "As tolerant as many Germans are, there is still a hard core of profoundly intolerant people in Germany today. While it may be easy to discount them, IMO, it is not wise to do so". That is correct. I would be the last to discount them. Neither my fellow countrymen who often put me to shame nor intolerant people in Zimbabwe - or the US, for that matter.

You write: "I am astounded by the number of people I've spoken to in Europe (not just Germany) who still believe that the Jews somehow brought the Holocaust upon themselves." - I definitively have never spoken to anybody who has voiced this belief. And I am a 50 year old German. I KNOW that some right-wing radicals say this. And I don't think that we should neglect this. But never ever have I heard anybody say so. So I really wonder who you have been talking to :)

"any society or culture anywhere can be led by the wrong people into committing terribly wrongful acts." How true. Understanding people not only learn by their own mistakes but try and learn by the mistakes of others, also.

"We - all - need to worry, and watch for signals that things are heading the wrong way": Let me sign this. Only, once more: Restricting Russian Jewish immigration into Germany does not fall into this category.

"large construction firm in southern Germany. Their firm's logo is the name of the founder, and contrives to make quite obvious the letters "SS"": That is more than bad taste. It solves nothing and makes nothing undone, but the abbreviation "SS" in modern Germany is as unthinkable as the first name "Adolf" (just think of the day when no US boy can ever be called "George" anymore!). Therefore what you have called your "favorite example" is really no example at all but rather a - hateful - exception. I'd like to know the exact name of this firm; I would like to check into this. Write me a PM if you don't want to post here.

Dir auch frohe Weihnachten!

I was a bit tart in my reply. I think too often I've seen the whole issue of racism and cultural tolerance spoken of in dismissive terms (all over the world). The phrase "no need to worry" struck me as more of the same. Yes, you did say the Turks would be the first to bear the anger.

Germany as a non-immigration country. It is a bit late for the country to wish that. There are already millions of Turks in Germany. With the opening of the borders as part of the EU, there are going to be still more foreigners in Germany. Germany's desire to define itself as not being a land of immigrants seems to be a case of the barn door being closed long after the horse has wandered away.

The people I have heard unsavory sentiments from. No, they were not what one would think of as typical Rechtradikalen. More like "Stinknormale Europäers" -- honestly. It is not always blatantly said. Sometimes, it is only hinted at, but the meaning is clear. I don't understand what drives it -- in most other situations, these are reasonably normal people -- but the seed of the sickness is there. Perhaps some of it is street theater to see if they can be provocative.

I agree that Germany should be able to restrict immigration as it wishes. The reason alarms go off for me, is because of the political involvement of people like the fellow who runs the firm I mentioned. The act of restricting immigration for economic reasons can be perfectly neutral -- but, on the other hand, if these reasons are being used as smokescreen by fanatics of any kind, then it is worthy of note. One wonders which politicians are in favor of this, and what their motivations are, the apparent economic common-sense of the measure notwithstanding.

BTW, the firm in question is Häussler. And I'm sorry to note there is yet another firm, Viessmann, that may be playing the same game. Neither of these firms are small-time. In Viessmann's case, the firm's logo was changed in the 1950s or 1960s (by the son of the founder (again, heh) -- the son, whom the firm's home page only notes that during the war years, he saw service in the "Wehrmacht". Yes, the "Wehrmacht", not the "Heer", or "Luftwaffe", or "Marine" -- the "Wehrmacht" -- a term so generic that it makes one wonder what it might be concealing. You wouldn't happen to have access to a 1940s edition of the SS-Dienstalterlist, would you? Might be enlightening.) Viessmann had previously had a fairly typical company logo, but when it was changed, it was done in such a way that one "S" stands above the other "S" -- making the logo read like Vie-SS-Mann. I think the reason these firms get away with this is the sheer amount of visual clutter in the modern world -- advertising everywhere, etc. Even if one notices the logos, one has to have some understanding of symbology used by combatant nations during the Second World War in order to grasp the full import of the design.

Apologies if I have rambled.

Cheers

BH

We always have to be watchful when it comes to intolerance - no matter which groups of society might be in danger. Be they ethnic minorities, gays or whoever. We still have anti-semitism in Germany as I very well know. I just don't think that we have a POLITICAL anti-semitism. Oh, we are very correct politically in that respect!

So the scapegoat next time around will be the Turks. I have a friend of Turkish origin and fear for him (and I feel embarrassed to say that Germans with Turkish origin are simply referred to as "Turks" by most people. There's that old "blood" or "race" thinking still at work which I think is very dangerous. A German is and has to be a person who carries a German passport, no more and no less).

"Germany as a non-immigration country. It is a bit late for the country to wish that." True. What I meant was that this is the official line. We have been an immigration country ever since the first Turk came here to work for us. Unfortunately the official policy always has been that we are a non immigration country - "they'll all go back some day". This way we have spared the expense of integrating them. Now we have the second and third generation of the people "who'll all go back some day" living here and cry bloody murder that "they don't want to integrate" while at the same time we reduce the number of language courses etc....

"the seed of the sickness is there" I still swear that none of the "stinknormale Europäer" I have ever spoken to as much as hinted at that the Jews were responsible for the holocaust. But: "Der Schoß ist fruchtbar noch, aus dem das kroch" (Brecht). That is certainly true. And in times of economic difficulties it usually gives birth. Here and everywhere.

What we are talking of here - the restriction of immigration for Russian Jews - I still do not see as dangerous in that respect. But there are enough signs of rising intolerance to be worried, that is very true. And it will get worse I fear when Turkey is finally part of the EU - not better. I can hear them now: OUR money going to support some measures over there!

I'm going to check up on the firms you mentioned. You are perfectly right - we do have some die-hards...

We truly live in interesting times. *sigh*

this morning.

Why ask us for money when y'all have got millions?

Donate your damn selves, Falwell and the rest.

Berlin began offering Jews from the former Soviet bloc the right to settle in the country in 1991 to help rebuild its own Jewish communities. By the end of 2003, some 190,000 Jews had taken up the offer to settle in Germany. But the fact that the number of the Jewish immigrants coming to Germany has exceeded those moving to Israel from Eastern Europe has led to a policy rethink, according to the Berliner Zeitung. The daily reported that around 9,400 ex-Soviet Jews were expected to come to Germany this year, exceeding for the first time the number settling in Israel by more than 1,000.


http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1432444,00.html

immigrated here since the 80's. Their "mafia" has settled in nicely in the US. Organized crime is also their forte.

Well, is what Germany is doing much different from what we will be doing concerning the Mexicans and Muslims?

Why wouldn't they want to go to Israel? Germany? I don't get it.

it's just their easy way out of Russia.
Hello from Germany!

I guess they don't care much about their traditions or who they are as far as they can leave. And being jewish and trying to go to Germany was one easy way out.
I fully undersstand this and I'm happy for everyone of them, who has made it to Germany.

Since socialism was destroyed in the former Sovjet Union, the live expectancy rate is about 5 years lower than it was in 1988 and Russia has become a third-world-country for the majority of the people.
It's as easy as that. The living conditions for the majority off the people, who don't belong to the small minority of profiteers, are unbelievable. They have nothing and many people simply have no chance to survive in Russia. And so they use every chance they have to escape the post-communist paradise of the free market and not so much democracy. That's all.


It has a lot to do with the world we live in, capitalism in the era of globalization, the cynicism of the leaders in Europe and especially in Germany. But it has nothing to do with antisemitism and even less to do with being religious jews in Russia.

The antisemitism that really still lingers on in Germany is much more elaborate.

Dirk

Only few of them permanently join a Jewish parish, I read today.

Was einen Deiner letzten Kommentare betrifft (letzte Woche oder so), die mit dem Etikett "links" bezeichneten Parteien, insbesondere die Grünen, betrieben tatsächlich eine konservative bis neoliberale Politik, so scheint der aktuelle Armutsbericht diese Einschätzung zu stützen.

Viele Grüße