Dad tries to sell Christmas gifts on eBay

http://newsobserver.com/24hour/weird/story/1953401p-9939631c.html

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

HOUSTON (AP) - The kids were naughty, Dad put the presents on eBay instead of under the tree - and Mom's been crying ever since. Now, even the tree's down.

Saturday morning was sure not to be very jolly for three brothers - 9, 11 and 15 - who didn't straighten up when their father told them Santa wasn't too pleased with their fighting, cuss words and obscene gestures.

Dad and Mom had warned their sons that the Nintendo DS video system - and the three games that go with it - were headed for the auction block if they didn't get their act together.

"No kidding. Three undeserving boys have crossed the line. Tonight we sat down and showed them what they WILL NOT get for Christmas this year. I'll be taking the tree down tomorrow," the man announced in his eBay posting.

or emotional abuse.

You show a kid he's unloved and "undeserving" and you've crossed the line, big time. I'm not at all sure this man is being a good father and setting appropriate limits at all.

Or put another way, if this is the best he can do at teaching his children responsibility while ensuring that they know they're loved, he's a piss poor father.

oh please

...and let someone else tell them they're "undeserving" of something, something real important that time too.

... is repeated threats with no follow-through. It's refreshing to hear of a parent that warned of the consequences and then followed through. I can't even count the times I've wanted to strangle some parent that merely repeated an empty warning to their misbehaving child, and did nothing. That merely teaches the kid that there's no need to listen - that parents are liars and empty suits.

called for...

If the idiot had to resort to such histrionics to "teach them something" and the are already that old, then he and his wife have no one to blame for their kids' behavior except themselves. This was not the act of an adult. All he taught them was the false rule that one's self-worth is tied up in power. There is absolutely no good that will come of his actions.

- K

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shouldn't be commenting on anything.

I've hit alert on this disgusting tripe.

Go back to your hole.

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He's been tomb stoned.

Their daughter is a very spoiled girl.
And with their son (going on 9) they have not followed through
with their claims of discipline. If the son didn't pick up his grades he wouldn't receive an X-box. Well, he didn't pick up his
grades but received an x-box anyway.

Luckily their son is turning out to be a decent boy.
But his temperament is really something else. He becomes
extremely agitated when he can't do something correct
and often he is just not a patient person.
Parents should do all that they can to administer an affective style of discipline with their children. If they don't a bunch of dumbheads are gonna result.

"redemption, so-to-speak." Perhaps he could have put one of the games on ebay to send a message and kept the system and the remaining games under the tree, celebrated Christmas, but indicated that these gifts were on conditional hold... they receive and enjoy them today, but would be allowed increasing access only by earning it. Personally, I think waiting until Christmas to send the "end-all" message is too harsh, I think. Discipline and limits are something one should be teaching year-round.

Overly harsh, yes... "Cruel," to me is the monster who would kill the kids' puppy or kitten in front of them. I reserve that word for the worst of the worst.

Reading the article, there were MORE than enough warnings.

IMO.

I haven't read the article and don't intend to. But if there were "more than enough warnings," it just goes to show the piss-poor discipline exercised around that household prior to this.

"More than enough warnings" prior to this = he's a rotten father, just as I said, and is now taking out his OWN frustrations inappropriately on his kids. All or nothing, over the top, I'm going to get you and make you really sorry discipline. That's NOT helpful and in fact it's not discpline, it's what I said: revenge.

And making sure he gets listened to and obeyed for just "one day" is yet another symptom of the problem, and NOT a viable solution IMO. Those kids don't disrespect and disobey him for no reason at all, ya know. They've been carefully (if inadvertently) taught to do precisely that for 11, 13 and so forth years now.

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I can't find it. Are you out here trolling or something?

Since these were Christmas presents, don't you think?

Christianity. They are secular holidays that most Americans celebrate regardless of religion. There are many different religious holiday's celebrate around this time but Christmas itself, at this point in time, in this country is pretty secular.

Overly indulgent parents do their kids and their community a disservice. When the kids finally "go out into the world" and find out that they're lucky if they even get one warning, that it's not a "fair" world, and that their behavior has a ripple effect ... have one helluva shock.

People who'd attack this dad for (finally?) putting his foot down serve only to perpetuate over-indulgence, imho. If not him, who? If not now, when? As far as I'm concerned, even if the lesson is long overdue it's still necessary.

When I was a kid, both I and my peers started thinking about coal in the Christmas stocking each year around Halloween. The spectre of being on Santa's "naughty" list was a fairly powerful influence on behavior. If these kids can't handle it for 48 hours, fuck 'em. They're not infants. They'll be on our streets all too soon. So I say "Go for it, Dad!" - better late than never.

But on this, we agree 100%.

DTH

The dad chose the wrong time to be punitive & resolute.

It's obvious that this is s.o.p. family dynamics going on. The kids' bad behavior was allowed to continue by the parents, without action, until the dad found the most unloving way to "retaliate". Too bad the dad let the pot boil over before he decided to be resolute.

The dad is seriously chipping away the kids' love for him by doing this, & creating emotional scars as well.

that he had been lax and let the kids get away with too much.

Clearly, you didn't read the article, either.


"The warning of an impending sale came earlier in the week at a sit-down between offspring and parents.

“We told them they were destroying each other and the calm and peace in the household. It had to stop,” said the man.

The boys pledged to be nice, but were back to their old ways the next morning.

That night, Dad announced that he would indeed be putting $700 in video games up for sale on eBay. The oldest boy double-dared his dad to make good on his word.

Son shouldn’t have done that."

I really tire of this child worship. I love kids but will NOT tolerate antisocial behavior from kids any more than from adults.

Rewarding antisocial behavior with gifts would be insane!

not a teacher.

I was a parent volunteer on art projects at my sons' schools. I learned through observation that there were two types of teachers: Those who chose the profession because they get huge self-satisfaction out of shaping young minds for the better. The second, which I found was way too prevalent, were those who evidently chose the profession for the vacation time, because they don't know the first thing about how to get positive results from kids, which leads to bad behavior & the teachers despising the students.

The Houston Chronicle article about this said he is an IT professional - I think - I can't find the link. Definitely not a teacher, though.

It is about publicly humiliating them and taking away the entire holiday, and then making a public spectacle about it. There is discipline, and then there is just being mean and nasty. I'd be willing to bet that if the whole thing is true, and not just a ruse to make his auction stand out from others, that he's just as mean and shitty to them all year around, and that is the cause of their bad behavior. Being an asshole to your kids isn't effective parenting.

Although Ebay auctions are generally anonymous, I don't think he should have made it a press story. At least he kept the family name anonymous.

DTH

The time to lay down the law in respect to Christmas presents is when the Christmas lists are being made, not after the gifts are bought. The kids' type of despicable behavior clearly didn't begin with the Christmas season -- it sounds like s.o.p. The dad's behavior is despicable in kind. The dad's judgement is patheticly destructive -- he admitted that he & his wife were too lax, a signal to the kids over time that their behavior is acceptable. His type of parental judgement is as bad as his kids' behavior & is not loving. If he wants to take the most loving day of the year to make his point, he should lock the gifts away until they see the light. I don't like this man, & I have to say, I don't know whether to dislike the mother for allowing this to happen or feel sorry for her for being trapped into living with this emotional bully.

and you raise them... since you've judged him to be such a despicable father without knowing the complete case history of this family, but just ONE hyped up article published on christmas day written to elicite hollow outrage. Because in the end, if you're not going to take them from their father, it really doesn't matter how mad you are about this.

We're expressing our opinions about the article. You're stepping out of bounds by making it personal & it's evident that your passion is stronger than mine about it.

We all have our own beliefs in how to raise kids & I'm just saying this dad's methods are different than mine. If you agree with his methods, then that's your business. This is a forum for expressing opinions -- let's keep it that way without getting angry & personal with differing opinions because someone may have hit a nerve with you.

No kid(s) is worth that!!!!!!

<<The dad is seriously chipping away the kids' love for him by doing this>>

THAT is what the problem is. How the heck are gifts equated with love? So he took away the extras that the kids don't need. Big deal. That is not emotional abuse, as he is not taking away any of their basic needs. Kids need to learn that there are consequences for their actions. How many out of hand adults have you met? After being a veteran of retail, I have learned that many ADULTS need to learn discipline that their parents probably never taught them.

Emotional scars for a lack of video games? Come on! I'm sure the kids will do just fine without the video games. And if they pout, let the little brats do that. I, for one, believe in raising kids to learn to appreciate what they have and give to others instead of being greedy.

I'll guarantee that the kids will be good next year. Good for the father for following through in a non-abusive away. He didn't SPANK his kids, for god's sake!

------------------------------------------------

Buy anti-Bush and other outspoken political merchandise at www.cafepress.com/liberalissues

I never said that gifts are equated with love -- that's your interpretation. It's the parenting style that is chipping away the love. The dad needs to show his love by taking a firm stand year-round as the misbehavior occurs, not allowing it to fester until a time when he has a major opportunity to dangle expensive gifts in front of their faces like a carrot stick, then take them away in a grandstanding fashion.

And, yes, it irked me that this man did it so publicly. He blantantly went on e-bay to sell the gifts & it was reported that he crowed about taking his tree down. Typical bully: He was proud enough of his figurative arm wrestle victory to advertise the situation on e-bay, but he cowardly wants to remain anonymous (out of shame?). He finally, finally took a stand against the misbehavior that he obviously allowed to develop through the years.

What a guy! And what a holiday to remember -- I bet Christmas will take on a new meaning in this household. Forget that it is a loving holiday meant to honor Jesus' birthday.

This is a bully's cruelty. I would have thought more of him if he had not bought the gifts at all.

when the father had had enough. However, if one read the entire article, this was something that was long in coming... and no child is entitled to christmas gifts--if they were, it'd be a christmas entitlement, not a gift.

It was good that he followed through on the dare his eldest son issued to him when told he was going to put the games up on eBay. If anyone is to blame for no games, it was the 15 yr old son. He let his mouth ruin christmas for his brothers.

They'll get over it and next time, they will think twice about disrespecting their parent's household. If they want the games that bad, they can get a paper route and earn the money themselves.

I would bet that only family insiders would know, and further that outsiders would only see the mask the family puts on for show.

From the article:
""These are normally really good kids," said Dad, who asked the Houston Chronicle not to reveal his name. Dad even admits he and Mom are partly to blame for being too lax at times."

Yeah, "These are normally really good kids", right...

What's that old chinese proverb? "It takes a thousand yes's to counteract a single no"?

one can impose other consequences, like telling the kids they can have their gifts after behaving well for a certain period of time. One wonders if anything could satisfy this father though. Some people are just plain mean.

vulgarly profiting off of them.

The kids, as he himself had said, were 'normally well behaved'.

Methinks that creep is profiteering for his own personal gain, using this one incident as a reason.

And if he lied to the media and his kids were normally evil anyway, my opinion won't change.

Good things happen to bad people too.

"vulgarly profiting off of them"

Selling video games on EBay is now vulgar profiteering??? It's immoral to sell the video gamse on EBay, but returning them to the store would be okay?

There is just nothing that will stand in the way of attacking this guy, is there? This is just the most ridiculous conversation on DU I think I've ever read - we have people comparing what this father did to physical violence and child abuse, sticking electrodudes in people's asses, and now "vulgar profiteering" - all because some spoiled bratty kids didn't get their fancy new video game console?

I'm actually honestly surprised by this one.

"flipping the bird", yelling, kicking, and using improper grammar. Thats really not outrageous behavior for boys ranging in age from 9-15. Actually, it seems pretty normal to me and a bit of an overreaction on the part of the father. JMO.

Instead, he's going to give the money he makes to his church for a new heater.

on edit: the information I gives comes not from the article, but from the list site on ebay which has since been withdrawn...

They should be horse wipped.

Do you think that Dad taught the kids without knowing it?

my parents didn't curse, so maybe that's where they learned all of their anti-social behavior. Other people's 'bay-bay kids' who came from homes with parents as uncouth as monkeys.

Why the hell didn't he just not get them the stuff in the first place, or take it back to the store? He is just trying to humiliate them -- and I doubt if it's the first time.

I don't buy the thing where they are always well behaved, suddenly broke out in a rash of bad behavior and this is the "cure" for it. Makes no sense. Weird family dynamics going on here. I would like to hear the kids side.

birthdays?

They will forever be scarred from being deprived of the necessities of life. How will they ever face their peers? :eyes:

then taken away, then the tree taken down, and now the proceeds go to the church heater!

Actually, kids do have a right to expect their parents to not sell their stuff. But this punitive bullshit is all in vogue now, anyway.

Why not just stuff an electrode up their asses? That'll surely make them better people.

Right?

Sounds like the kids learned a valuable lesson. They say you become an adult the first Christmas where the presents you buy cost more than the presents you receive. Next Christmas perhaps the kids will give the gift of peace and quiet to their parents.

"Problem is not whether or not to give it. It was already given, shown, then taken away, then the tree taken down, and now the proceeds go to the church heater!"

I bet if this family was not Christian, we'd all be cheering this creative disclipline. Since he's a Christian, we must hate him. GOP Culture War is working quite well - with the badly needed aid of so called "liberal" anti-Christian bigots.

"Actually, kids do have a right to expect their parents to not sell their stuff. "

What utter bullshit - it wasn't "their stuff" - it was Christmas gift the parents were going to give them.

"Why not just stuff an electrode up their asses? That'll surely make them better people."

Wow - how did you get from a parent returning the gifts they were going to give their children, to stuffing electrodes up kids' asses? You need help?

I didn't even see the part about his church or his religious practices but I still find his disciplinary tactics to be sadistic and primitive.

He could easily just return it to the store, but instead, he's selling the item on eBay to both humiliate his kids AND to boost his ego by getting attention from the media.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he called the local newspaper to brag about it.

sadistic and primitive?

Wow, just wow.

Yeah, buddy. Wow, just wow. I say the same thing when I read your posts.

and suggested it as a human interest story, but he insisted on not using his name.

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in animals or humans. Animal behaviorists tell pet owners to use positive reinforcement with pets and many parenting experts suggest the same with children. Positive reinforcement simply works better. The children's behavior shows how poor the father's parenting techniques are. If he wanted to establish some sort of standard of behavior for receiving the Christmas presents, he should have told the kids they could receive them after a certain period of behaving well. To take them away only causes resentment and will be very unlikely to result in any long term improvement in their behavior. My guess is that this father doesn't set down consistent limits with his children and has anger management problems that he frequently takes out on his children.

REALLY pissed.

I bet if this family was not Christian, we'd all be cheering this creative disclipline. Since he's a Christian, we must hate him.

How DARE you imagine (fabricate) anti-Christian bigotry at work here in the criticisms of this man? What a crock. What an offensive, steaming, utterly mindless crock of shit.

For your information, I for one wasn't even mindful of his religious affiliations.

And where do you get off defending him ON THE BASIS of his Christian religion? That's almost equally as offensive.

And if you don't see the emotional abusiveness of this kind of so-called "discipline" in these kids' faces, I hope you don't have children and never will. You will harm them.

Your own words and the posts of about a dozen or so people on this board speak for themselves.

"And where do you get off defending him ON THE BASIS of his Christian religion? That's almost equally as offensive. "

I didn't defend him on the "basis of the Christian religion" - you're making that up. In fact, how in the world does his religion enter into it at all? Aside from the comments here from people saying thigs like "no surprise he's a Christian"?

"And if you don't see the emotional abusiveness of this kind of so-called "discipline" in these kids' faces, I hope you don't have children and never will. You will harm them."

Utter bullshit. These kids do not need expensive video games for Christmas, and taking them back because they were acting like spoiled little jerks is not in any way shape nor form emotionally abusive.

Seriously, what utter bullshit.

The first year I taught, I had a kid in class, 17 years old, who just talked a lot. According to school regs, after three warnings, I was to call his parents. I called his dad, who assured me that he would take care of it.

The boy missed three days of school and came back with his arm in a cast and his jaw wired with several teeth missing. His dad had taken care of it all right.

I've never called another parent since, but have had many call me. Like the one whose daughter "only" made a 97 in my class instead of all 100s and so lost her car for a semester and the right to go to the prom. Like the one who withdrew his child from school because I wouldn't agree to skip the Holocaust.

The truth is, parents have no training in most cases, and like most complex tasks, fuck it up. Their kids then do the same.

I teach 300 adolescents a year from ages 15-19, and in my tenth year now. I've had serious problems with 2 in all that time. Truth is, if you tell people (kids included) what you want and why you want it, they respond about 99% of the time.

But destroying a holiday, making a public spectacle of folks, ridicule and mental cruelty, while all-American, just doesn't work. Next year, these boys will be wholly justified in raising all kinds of hell because they know that some excuse will found for canceling anyway.

This whole behaviorism and reward-punishment binge we're on is outdated, ineffective, harmful, and just quite mean. Hasn't got a damn thing to do with religion, cause you can't find a verse one that will recommend the activity herein described to parents.

Mean assholes are just mean assholes. In this case, HE is the one who brought the church into it, not me.

Where do you get this crap?

back IS violence.

Only one of these boys is of an age to have critical thinking skills, maybe. The other two at 9 and 11 are very concrete, The message they will receive is, "You are no good, and so won't get this good thing."

Nobody made this asshole buy an expensive gift and then dangle it in front of these kids. He did that.

A GIFT by definition is no strings attached.

Now, if the system is wages, where a certain action is required for the pay, that's a bit different. Even there, though, people are still required to be paid even when they don't do their job perfectly (and most of us should be thankful for that.)

So this is no gift. And it's no way to set up wages, either.

Nope, this guy is a mean asshole. Show me how taking down the tree promotes critical thinking in any way, and show me the developmentally appropriate actions he's taken both based on what the boys have done, and the ages they are now.

No, it's not. It's not anything even remotely close to violence. As a matter of fact - it really downplays the seriousness of violence against children to pretend that it is

"The message they will receive is, "You are no good, and so won't get this good thing."

No, the message they will receive is "You act badly, and you won't get presents."

"Show me how taking down the tree promotes critical thinking in any way, and show me the developmentally appropriate actions he's taken both based on what the boys have done, and the ages they are now."

If you can't even distinguish the difference between violence and not getting expensive Christmas presents, there is sure as hell no way I can show you much of anything.

Violence is designed to make people feel bad. OK?

Showing something unattainable and then jerking it back makes people feel bad.

Ergo, a violent act has been committed.

Conversely, you wouldn't describe his behavior as friendly, would you?

Here's the rule of thumb I learned three decades ago from a wise old professor:

Anytime something is being done "for your own good", it ain't. When someone else says this will hurt me more than it will you, offer to trade places and spare them the pain.

All I can do today. I just dropped by before we have Christmas dinner with our own kids and grandkids. I can assure you that there will a tree there and a lot of fun (and about $100 worth of gifts for 8 people total; it really IS the thought that counts).

Please have a merry Christmas yourself, and everyone else on the board as well!

"Violence is designed to make people feel bad. Showing something unattainable and then jerking it back makes people feel bad. Ergo, a violent act has been committed."

I am having a hard time believing you are serious. If you are, what you are doing is trivializing actual violence against children.

"Conversely, you wouldn't describe his behavior as friendly, would you?"

No, I wouldn't. Since when in not being friendly violent?

Hell, by this "defintion" of violence - anything said on DU to make Christians feel bad is the same as a violent attack on that Christian. Is that the case? Obviously not.

Happy Holidays to you too.

To all of you who think what this man did was violence or abuse - how do you think parents should discipline their children?

"violence is designed to make people feel bad"

I mean, pretty much all discipline makes people feel bad, so by this logic, any discipline is violence.

I think other posters have already covered what real violence is.

Humiliation doesn't have to be, nor should it be, part of it. Discipline is about teaching your children to become good human beings that respect you and others. It isn't about humiliating them, telling them they're bad people (as he stated in the auction) and, lastly, it isn't about publicly airing their behavior and punishment for millions to see. This wasn't discipline.

If he had just taken these gifts away, and told them this was punishment for their behavior, that would have been discipline. It still may not have been how I personally handled it, but it's fine. This Ebay publicity stunt, along with the message to his kids that they're bad people, is not parenting or discipline.

the whole publicity bit, I mean.

But some people seem to think the very showing them the gift then taking it away was too harsh.

But, I wasn't there, and I didn't see the behavior first hand that precipitated this. I do think that showing them what they were going to get before taking it away was heavy handed. And taking down the Christmas tree was way way over the top. But, what really strikes me is the whole Ebay stunt, with the way it was worded.

I believe the best kind of discipline is the kind that actually teaches a kid how to behave. Tearing down the Christmas tree and posting an ad for their stuff on Ebay isn't really teaching them anything other than how to be a bully, in my opinion. But, kids are hard to deal with. It's easy to lose your cool. All parents have their moments, and that doesn't make them evil, or bad parents. The fact that a few days later, and he's still reposting this with the same schtick makes this seems so methodical, and not just a moment of losing his cool. There are warning bells, there.

Edited: Eba=Ebay. Darn spell check.

I have a bridge I want to sell. Let's talk.

It was a bit of a stretch ;)

thereby, in their own words, "dosappointing" them, they drove me out of college, telling me that helping me pay for it was a "waste of their time and money".

I guess I should have 'behaved', huh?

"Why not just stuff an electrode up their asses? That'll surely make them better people."

what an idiotic leap across the divide.

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Sounds typical of those people. No offense to IT folks here at DU, of course!!!

We had five cars and we all piled them up at once. My brothers smashed theirs up crashing into the backs of other people's cars while they were looking at girls instead of the road. I smashed one up by trying to avoid a deer while I was coming home from college. I can't recall how my mother smashed hers up. All this happened in one month.

So Dad went out and bought a beater. Man was this thing ugly. I recall it was beige. Beige!! And it was old as the hills. The entire family had to get along in this car for what seemed like forever. Horrible experience.

Did we learn any lessons from this? Yeah. That the old man was an eccentric SOB. Was then; still is.


Cher

:eyes: Heaven forbid he'd go and actually buy y'all another car.

It's exactly the same thing as beating them!

No gas either take that

and you punish the kid anyway. Textbook psychological abuse.

I hope you are kidding

next door has wrecked FOUR cars counting the one he crashed in the last few days and his father just goes out and replaces them with a nice one each time. Hmmmmmmm this kid just goes right back to being drunk and irresponsible, someday he is going to end up in real trouble in the big cold cruel World after having learned nothing at home cause they always 'bail' him out. :-(

... great for growing bodies and maturing minds. :eyes:

Hyperactivity and attention deficit disorder ... at least temporarily.

Easier to drug your children than feed them
a healthy diet ??? We create our own problems ...

http://sportscarecenter.com/scc/id17.html

... kids. This is a family that cries out for the experience of serving the needy on Christmas.

Donating to a poor family and bringing the kids with him to give out the toys would have had a better effect on their psyches, but then they may have ended up enjoying the punishment/lesson and he couldn't have made money off of it.

and what their sons are building in their garage. If things got that bad before Dad finally acted, it may be too late to change their ways.

One day those kids will be putting their parents in the cheapest, dirtiest nursing home they can find.

double dared him. He had no choice!


DownNotOut

Of course, what can you expect from a 15-year-old?

Once upon a time, a kid like that could be turned over to the state as "out of control" ... back in the day of parental liability. God help me if I were the Dad, but I'd be sorely tempted. At the age of 15, the kid has the lion's share of responsibility for his own behavior - no matter how bad an example his parents may have been. We always have a choice. My own parents gave me an abundance of "bad examples" and that was as much a part of my learning experience as the "good examples."

the snotty kid didn't triple dog dare him.

Why doesn't he just return the gifts to the store, quietly, without going to the papers?

Is he trying to profit from his kids' embarrasing and bratty behavior?

I think it's safe to say that he's got a sadistic streak in him.

rather than quietly cash in for a heater for Jesus!

:shrug:

list, he'll use the proceeds to buy a heater for his church.

He wants to teach responsibility for behavior? I say let him identify himself and take the responsibility for his own behavior here.

I'm sure he can afford to buy a heater for his church without resorting to this.

:eyes:

It was very very bad judgement in my opinion. But selling of the video games sounds like good judgement to me.

that's what it says on the e-bay site so I can understand....

Looks like the Dad's plan isn't working out. The auction is currently at $770 with 31 bids. :D

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62054&item=8157047854&rd=1

I didn't place a bid, but I did send him a message with my thoughts. :evilgrin:

Yeah, right.

He's relisted the items three times!

The current high bidder is a zero-feedback ID who had a previous bid for $9,500 that was canceled. In other words, someone created a username just to bid it up -- or someone created a username just to win the auction and then stiff the seller.

nothing more.

Let his testicles shrivel up and fall off.

"...I'll be taking the tree down tomorrow."

I'm not making excuses for the kids' behavior, but, this dad should have carefully thought through the consequences of HIS actions.

Aside from a miserable day for all concerned...these kids will harbor resentment for their folks for a long time to come. They will probably not have good Christmas memories of their childhoods when they become adults.

And, will they grow up and raise their children in the same way?

:-(

If the kids are smart, they'll get away from their father as soon as they are able to. If they're not, they'll stay in Pasadena, Texas, and become just like their Dad.

That explains everything.....lol

are acting like jackasses, they got it honestly!!

If he really wanted to punish them, not get publicity for himself, he would have just taken the items back to the store. If that wasn't good enough for him, he could have shown the kids the sales and return reciepts, to drive it home.

He's seen the inflated prices on e-bay whenever anything gets publicity and knowing these games are almost impossible to find this Christmas his real interest is cashing in. Another lesson for his sons to learn from the pr!ck.

Not for one minute do I believe he's donating the money to anything but him. That was a backpedal that you could hear him makeup on the fly, when the local TV reporter was less than admiring of his parenting. Just listen to the guy!! Sounds like his three sons are merely following in his image. And not to give mom a freeride....he said the boys' behavior made their mother cry. Well, why didn't mom step up to the plate and let them know she would not be intimidated? Where has these parents been all these years? Sounds like maybe mom is married to a bully and has been raising three more of them. I've seen it happen before.

Mary

Considering that the exact same item is listed several times on eBay and none of them are going for much more than $100, I think the Dad is only going to be frustrated with his childish efforts to punish his kids. The auction is now up to $829.

miscalculated the effect the free publicity would have, when there's alot of 'furor' over an auction it frequently drives bidding way over the top. An overcrowded marketplace, toys at Xmas & free controversy - he thought he would make a killing, glad it didn't work this time (remember the grilled cheese sammiches?!) I am an eBayer from way back, & there is a very activist core to the forums there that ACT when they think a seller or buyer is screwing the eBay body public. 'Pops' was looking more to score than to educate his boys, otherwise he would have just returned them to the store (opened or not, stores do make refunds on video stuff w/receipts - BTW, why were they even opened? Kids playing them already? WTF?)

He remained anonymous? Don't let the facts get in the way of our self-righteous outrage now. Damn southerners!

You think his family, friends, neighbors don't recognize his voice, his house (where the TV spots were taped), that he has three sons those ages, who if they act so badly, aren't pretty much known. Hell, what would make him think for a minute his kids won't tell everyone what an SOB they think he is? Just wait til school starts, just like daddy who has to keep telling everyone, they will too, but not anon. Given there ages, chances are they go to three different schools. Pasadena is Pasadena. Not an anon kind of place. All hat, no cattle!

IF he gives money to the church for a heater, you think he'll do it quietly??

Mary

I mean, if it was so easy for people on the Internet to identify Kobe Bryant's accuser (even though that info's supposed to be kept secret), I find it hard to believe that we don't have his name, address, phone number, SSN, workplace, and blood type all over the place by now.

;-)

1. to make a public spectacle of himself and his family was, imho, not a real bright idea.

2. if he'd withheld the gifts in question, they could have sat the kiddies down and explained that such behavior was not to be rewarded, but their gifts would be waiting for them when the demonstrated civility.

... and got an 'understanding.' That 'understanding' didn't last 1 day. As far as I'm concerned, the parents have no obligation to give expensive toys to their misbehaving children. They weren't deprived of food, shelter, clothing or health care. Just toys. Fuck 'em.

Set the games up on a shelf where they can see them.

And they don't get to have them until they are civil to each other for a specified period. If they keep fighting, they don't get them.

He could have returned them, given a portion of the money to charity for kids who don't have these kind of advantages and made them earn back the difference with good behavior or charity.

This is just doing more to "destory the peace and harmony" in the house as he says. The mom must have major escape fantasies!

That twerp is the epitome of how good things happen to bad people, should somebody pay him $770 for all that.

would get any christmas presents.

Nintendo was unnecessary, so was the twisted cruelty.
Kids learn by example, not from lectures.

Why the HELL is this news? I say it's called parenting, and there is nothing wrong with it as long as nobody got hurt. To those of you who object, I would like to see you call social services because the parents deprived their children of a basic necessity such as a Nintendo DS.

:thumbsup: Let's save the self-righteous pedantic crap for the real abusers.

:shrug:

airing all your dirty laundry to make a buck is parenting, by God! Humiliating your children and telling them and the world that they're bad is parenting! Throwing a tantrum and tearing down the Christmas tree and ruining EVERYONE'S Christmas in the family is parenting! That's teachin' em!

This thread is scaring me :scared:

The dad is not identified anywhere and neither are the kids. The father is obviously doing this because he felt this punishment is the best way to get the kids attention.

Ferchrissakes, commercialized X-mas is NOT an entitlement. Families can either have it or they don't, it doesn't make a lot of difference.

demonstrating that it wasn't mere parenting, but some of the sick motivation that makes people end up on daytime talk shows. It is that motivation that shows this to be dark and twisted rather than mere parenting. How many parents do you know that need a large audience as they administer a punishment to their children?
This story smacks of Mommy Dearest - the part where the birthday presents were given away with the photographers clicking away.
And, yeah, a lesson might have be learn if he DID give them away, rather than advertise/sell them on e-bay.

to this as a "human interest" story idea? So, he not only put this up on ebay to bring attention to himself, but he actually called his hometown newspaper to give them the "scoop". It ran as a front page story in the Chronicle the next day.

...getting lauded as an American hero!

:puke:

No doubt the kids are messed up. If this is the dad's idea of appropriate punishment, then we shouldn't be surprised that the kids can't behave.

I am just wondering if this is a 'real' word or just one made up for the context of the thread. What is a punishist? Or, more importantly, what would be the opposite of a punishist? (with regard to raising children)

And not specific to child rearing. It was originally crafted for those "dem law is dem law" types who approve a 19yo getting 20 years for banging a 17yo, or some guy getting 20 years in California for stealing pizza under 3 strikes law.

Consider it licensed under the GPL. :hi:

The Dad did what he felt he had to do. Perhaps if someone recognized who he was, that is great so perhaps the kids may feel some embarrassment at the way they have acted and perhaps they will think twice about acting that way again.

The thing I am really offended about is this whole violence theme. First off, I have nephews who are horribly abused by their Mom's boyfriend. They are truly humiliated. What do you call it when one pooped in his underwear and the BF made him strip naked in front of his brother and stand in the corner, naked, except for the poopy underwear on his head? His brother was made to watch him while he stood in time out for most of the afternoon.

Another time the youngest brother was made to do laps in the yard. The BF followed close behind telling him to go faster and faster. The boy came to my house with skinned knees from falling down over and over again.

I will not even go into how many times I have called protective services for these children and that the last time it included calls to every official I could get an email addy for in my ENTIRE state! They still do nothing because the children (now teens) have been threatened against talking. I have talked to other children who are witnesses as well as the kids themselves and this man is VIOLENT.

But you want to know what violence really is? Try being raped. Trying being forced upon by a man twice your size,in a bedroom, with the door locked. And besides the fact that the man is twice your size, you are too drunk to give it a good fight anyway. Try telling him that you do not want to do anything with him and have him say 'too late' as he slips deep inside you against your will. Try having that phrase 'too late' haunt you for years and years after the incident. Try being so traumatized by the incident that you do not even recognize a girl you met the night before because your mind has all but blocked out the entire incident. Especially when you went to this girl afterwords and had her hold back your hair while you forced a finger down your throat to get rid of every bit of alcohol you had in your system. Then you ask her for a ride back home (since she is the one you came with!) and she wants to stay to talk to a guy. Try that out for violence and then try to realize how offended I am, as a rape victim, that you say this man who took away a game system is violent.

Merry Christmas!

That doesn't mean it wasn't the right thing to do. There are gray areas, here. Just because he didn't beat the crap out of them doesn't make this good parenting. There is discipline and then there's being a vindictive asshole. If he'd just taken away the playstation that would be fine. But, he took down the tree, and posted this publicly, making these kids feel as if they weren't worthy of a family holiday. That is emotionally abusive.

:hug:

I can't imagine going through what you did, seeing what you do and then reading some of this

n/t

what a nuisance. he should have figured out a way to keep it from backfiring on him.

is a good one. They get locked in a closet and they have a glass jar and some Monopoly money. For every day that each boy gets through the day peacefully - no cussing, no hitting, no fighting, no trash talk - they get "paid" $10. That would be $30 a day. If they're able to behave every day, they'll accumulate the $700 in a little over 3 weeks. Oddly enough, they say it takes about 3 weeks to establish a habit. If they can go 3 solid weeks peacefully, they will be out of the bad habit mode.

I remember reading about a young actress, who had grown up in a fairly well off family, but she seemed pretty together as young actresses go. She said that at one point when she was a teenager, her mother decided that she was getting a little too big for her britches and taking her good fortune a little too much for granted. She came home one day to find her bedroom cleared of all her stuff except for her bed and one set of clothes in the closet. Her mom made her earn all her "stuff" back. She said she never took things or people for granted again.

You have to be mean to your kids, or your spoiling them. Plus, it's not as fun as getting to be publicly self righteous about it. I'm sure this guy thought that everyone would pat him on the back about what a great father he was being for standing up to his kids. They're going to learn their lesson, dagnabbit! More important to crush their little souls than to actually teach them to be decent people.

Instead, he came off as a pompous, cruel and emotionally abusive. But, I'm a librul, so what the hell do I know.

...if you continue to fuck up the country, you can't be President!

Too bad we're not as good on the follow through.

parents try to do.

This will be a big lesson.

Cruelty? Doesn't even come close. The kids should be so lucky.

Think about this...

What if the dad made up this entire story, all in an effort to raise money for his church?!

If people will send their life's savings to creeps like Jerry Falwell, this guy could easily get a few hundred bucks for the heater that his church supposedly needs.

Hell...for all we know, he doesn't have any kids and he's an atheist who plans to use the money for a winter vacation in Mexico.

(FYI - that wasn't a slam against atheists - I don't believe in God either. I just think it would be a little funny if my hypothesis was true!)

It can be done! :evilgrin:

to make his play station auction stand out from all the other numerous play station auctions. Last time I checked, it was over 1700 bucks, so it looks like it worked. If it's true, the guy is an asshole. If it's false, he's a deceptive asshole.

but taking back Christmas presents is certainly not abusive by any stretch of the imagination.

The only reason this even got any publicity is because he did it on eBay. If he had simply returned the video game system and games to the store, no one would even know about this. I'm sure he's not the only one to do something like this, but again, not in such a public way.

kids? did AP run out of shit to write about? Why does the Dad have to tell the family shit anyway? Just sell it and be done with it.

That's why I disagree with how he did it.

He obviously wanted:

1. To make money off the video game system and games, instead of simply getting his money back.

2. Wanted some publicity.

3. Wanted to embarrass and humiliate his children.

Or some combination of the three. Those are the things I disagree with here.

But far, far worse was done to us than taking our Christmas presents back for misbehaving.

1. why did he have to tell the background info? Just sell the shit and leave the family shit out.

2. why is this in the news?

1. Because he's a fucked up person.

2. Punishist porn sells. (You have to go no further than this thread for proof)

You hit it perfectly.

Wow - he and his fellow parishioners are going to stay very warm. The current bid is at $1725!

Only 13 hours and 45 minutes to go, folks. Better start bidding higher! :+

he could have donated the stuff or just returned it.

the jerk is just that.

Gifts are entitlements. Sounds like these boys fancy themselves some type of suburban gangstas... The gifts should absolutely go back. Fine for me... I'd do the same damn thing.

But would you put them up on ebay and air all your dirty laundry in the process, complete with "Good people have good things happen, bad people don't and other rightwingerish self righteousness blah blah blah....telling the truth is always right...blah blahblah.. I tell my kids they're bad people...blah blah... gee, I wonder why they behave so badly... blah blah blah..." assholery? Probably not :)

That wasn't in the article. In fact, in the article he says "These are normally really good kids"

He states his reasons for selling the presents as "Good things happen to good people. Bad things happen to bad people".

It's all well and good for us to sit around and Monday morning quarterback. I mean, the Dad could have handled this better, sure - but he isn't evil.

I was raised Jewish. When my sister and I were growing up if we acted up in the autumn months, my Dad used to threaten if we didn't behave he would be "The Grouch That Stole Hanukkah" (get it, instead of the "Grinch Who Stole Christmas"). At the time, it was all we needed to straighten up and fly right, believe me. Looking back, I think it's funny. I suppose if the threat itself wasn't enough to get me to behave, seeing it actually carried out one year sure would.

And the fact that the kids are like this 'cos of him, maybe, but we all know some parents do everything right and still have kids who misbehave.

If this is the same guy, (And it seems to be according to his Ebay ID):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=62054&item=8157047854&rd=1

He owns a Ferarri.

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrari308/message/29

Nice way to get in the papers, I guess....

I remember my parents always having a lock on our behavior when we were kids and always having full control of the household. They had old school parenting methods and zoomed in on it before it EVER got to "fighting, cuss words and obscene gestures". To cuss IN FRONT of our parents? Oh hell no! Not to this day. Now when we were on the street with our friends, that was a different story.

It's hard for me to understand how it ever became the norm for these kids to act this way under their roof. Sounds like the parents dropped the ball.

Maybe next year they'll treat dad with some respect when he attempts that "parenting" stuff everybody seems to agree is SO lacking in today's world.

But then, maybe the little darlings will slit his throat in his sleep before New Year's, too.

Oh, but isn't that CRUEL, denying them their Gawd-given Right to a Video Game?

he was selling their main gift, I guess, not all of them. There are/were other gifts mentioned in the article.

This is something that bothers me in a particular way--this striving to keep up with all the expensive crap that the kids are demanding. I don't have kids, but I know enough of them, and all I can say is the kids who have limits imposed on their gift choices are the ones who take Christmas into a better perspective.

I've known kids who literally "demand" their parents to supply them with all these expensive items that parents can't even afford to begin with. And when their parents don't "come through" for them, they are rude and abusive.

I would love to see Christmas return to what it once way, when I was young: where a toy truck or model was a great gift for some, when books were actually given for gifts all the time (when a majority of kids actually had interest in doing what few do now, which is reading), and when the "spirit" of Christmas was spent in the rituals and traditions of the past. I know a lot of kids who won't be getting any expensive game systems, motorized scooters or other $500 items, and it's because too many parents right now can't afford to give them. So I think a child who acts like a bully toward his parents just because he "wants" something likely to set their parents back as much as this one in the article, needs to be punished, and having their more desired item removed from the list of possibilities is the only way you can deal with kids nowadays. My own nephew is one of the most demanding, belligerent and nasty little bastards I know. But the child has never had anyone punish him consistently, and that's part of the tragedy. Children who are treated consistently and with the right set of rules and punishments gain a great deal more maturity than children who are allowed to get away with something one day, and are punished far more than they should be the next, are getting mixed signals and wrong messages.

Dad is a putz and the children are brats. Mom sounds pretty ineffectual as well. The whole lot of them are idiots!

I swear I have tears running down my face. From the definition of violence to the comparisons of this goof's actions to anal torture to the Christians trying to muscle in on yet another thread to say they are being bashed I am laughing my ass off.


I think the guy went overboard by going public and embarrassing his family but I don't think words like sadistic and inhuman apply.

there's a point of moderation and sensibility to their use as well. i believe he went a bit overboard.

the ebay selling and ranting, meh, fine, whatever. people generally don't get too interested in sellers' lives to bother finding out personal names, locations etc. for the most part ebay is pretty anonymous.

the calling the newspaper as an interest story to whip up "media level scrutiny" (and 2:1 odds it'll end up hitting the MSM, unfortunately), very bad judgment call. media is a pretty psychotic beast, it's best to avoid leaving blood in the water lest a frenzy occurs. now *that* can be scarring psychologically. so far it isn't big news thankfully... yet. but the father definitely invited a magnitude of scale that can easily get out of control, very bad move.

ps: for those who use time-outs, that is a deprivation tool of negative re-enforcement discipline. for those of you who apply education of empathy paired with strong sense of remorse/guilt for misdeeds, you are using a shame tool of negative re-enforcement discipline. so don't get out your abu ghraib pictures and hold some witchhunt on me -- take a chill pill and grab some perspective (now there's a word that needs to be repeated... *perspective*). and i'd be really impressed to find anyone here who uses 100% positive re-enforcement discipline; it is a style, though it should be encouraged, that is nearly impossible to use exclusively.

As a parent, I find negative reinforcement to be effective. Not every person reacts the same way to purely positive reenforcement, and not every situation is the same. And negative reenforcement is not traditionally looked upon as being "negative" in the sense we usually take the word -- that is reserved for outright punishment.

"If you do not behave in school this week," for instance, "I will not take you to the SpongeBob movie."

This is statistically not as effective as "If you DO behave in school this week, than I will take you to the SpongeBob movie," but, in instances where the positive approach has failed, it may be a viable alternative.

Punishment occurs when a parent (or whomever) says "If you do not behave in school this week, I will spank you."

Taking away something that they like (negative reinforcement) works better than simple punishment, which in the long run doesn't work at all. Most psychologists, I believe, would disagree with your assumptions that negative reinforcements are inherently wrong. Abu-Ghraib, for instance, was an instance of punishment -- rather than take away something positive (negative reinforcement), they inflicted punishment (a wanton, cruel, and undeserving punishment at that).

And when all decent methods of parenting fail (and they doo, occasionally), remeber -- shame works on all but the sociopaths. ;)

...we'll be seeing this family on Dr Phil !

we'll be seeing them on the Jerry Springer Show.

think they deserve and or entitled to gifts and all the luxuries of life. however, i do have a problem with the publicity factor. public humiliation is never about discipline. it is about sadism. and i am willing to bet the father's desperation had a bit of sadism tainted in it.

in an extreme situation like this, i will not reward bad behavior with gifts---christmas or no christmas. and it will be THEIR choice if they want to spoil their christmas or not. they had ample warning.

but for minor bad bahavior, i'd never cancel christmas. it means alot to kids.

quite frankly, i would return the gifts quietly and tell the kids that they will not be getting their xbox or whatever game system until we see some sustained behavior changes. and when that occurs, i'd rebuy the gifts and make a special occasion out of it.

9, 11 and 15 - who didn't straighten up when their father told them Santa wasn't too pleased with their fighting, cuss words and obscene gestures.

Wow! I have a 13 & 16 year old and I don't any of that nonsense going on. Are my kids perfect? No. Have we tried to be good parents all along? Yes.

Sounds to me like the kids in the article have anger issues. I can understand why.

Julie

Seriously, I think some of the posters have had abit too much eggnog.
If I had ever flipped off anyone in my house or double dared my folks to take back a GIFT they had bought for me they would have sold ME on Ebay and kept the games themselves. Honestly, to equate what this man did with violence is simply asinine.

"If I had ever flipped off anyone in my house or double dared my folks to take back a GIFT they had bought for me they would have sold ME on Ebay and kept the games themselves."

No kidding! :)

If I had been openly flipping off my brother and sister around the house, my father would have walked calmly to his closet, and I would have heard the horrific sound of a belt buckle going <i>chink</i> against the hook. He would have then proceeded to lay into me with a leather belt for several minutes, and by the end I would have had black and blue marks from the backs of my knees to the middle of my back.

All in all, I would have preferred he take my xmas presents.

All of you saying that what this man did was violence and horrible abuse need to shut the hell up. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Violence is not merely something that makes people feel bad. It is VIOLENCE. It is physical. It hurts physically. It causes physical injury.

taking charge of their kids bad behavior. This a good strong lesson that these children will not forget anytime soon.

It makes no sense that the kids "are ususally well behaved" and now he needs to do this 12/23? What a fucking drama queen the dad is. At any rate I don't think you can draw any conclusions here without hearing the kids and the wife's take on it. I've only heard the dad and he seems to have a self-agrandizing attitude IMO. I GIVITH! I TAKETH AWAY! I'll bet he voted for GWB. Sounds like an asshole to me.q

three spoiled brats having their gifts taken away with being brutally beaten with a wire hangar :eyes:

Some of you people really are living in some alternate universe.

You make this judgement hearing one side of the story. Even though it makes no sense!

If they are so awful, why did he buy them this shit in the first place. According to him they are all usually good and then they morphed into three undeserving brats just in time for him to pull this stunt on 12/23??

How can you take the dad's side without hearing the kids side at ALL?

I hate all this ridiculous power tripping with Xmas gifts. I GIVITH!! I SHALL TAKETH AWAY! That's the Christmas spirit all right. I hope the kids attitude is, God, who needs this crap, go ahead and sell it.

these were little fucking angels. The father bought the gifts hoping that the kids would behave like human beings. They did not and one even challenged the father.

Guess what? these little shits learned a good lesson, perhaps next year they won't be such turds to others.

Which is good enough for you apparently.

lets convene a grand jury and get to the bottom of this!

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their overpriced game systems and have to be punished. I guess that tops the thousands of kids who are homeless for Christmas.

I don't buy my kids stuff like that -- but neither do I buy it, then declare them unworthy of it, then tell them they are too bad to even keep the Christmas tree up and THEN proceed to plaster the "bad and unworthy" label on the internet for you and I and everyone else to discuss.

(Note: my children don't behave in the way the father claims his do. Perhaps because I don't think public humiliation is "corrective." He probably has a big arsenal of humiliating punishments, thus the behavior.)

Don't you think everyone who knows them knows about this? Was that not the point of all this -- to let EVERYONE know how bad the children are?

If you think that's a GOOD thing for this family then I feel sorry for yours.

and everyone else is wrong.

Let me clue you in to something; Everyone handles situations differently. My point is that I don't see anything wrong with what this guy did, but you condemn him because it wasn't how YOU would have done things.

made her kids write thankyou notes for all their gifts and then give them to the poor so they wouldn't be spoiled. Not that you would judge her parenting style.

If you are going to judge from results, then since my kids are ages 10 - 14 and they don't have the behaviors he describes, yes my parenting style is superior. How could 3 out of 3 of his kids be as bad as he says and not reflect badly on how they are being raised?

Joan Crawford was physically, verbally and mentally abusive to her children in many, many ways. Her actions were rooted in abuse and had nothing to do with her children's actual behavior. The father in question; on the other hand, metted out his punishment as a direct result of his children's bad behavior.


There you go again. YOUR style is superior to all other parents.

Could it be that the father realized he had been lenient on his children's discipline and decided in order for them to behave he would have to teach them a harsh lesson? People are not perfect(besides YOU) thgey FU and make mistakes; however, realizing those mistakes and taking action to correct them should be commended.

He admitted that he let his kids get away with alot and he took action. You are just upset that he did not follow your own little perfect way of raising children and decided to be creative and stern in his punishment instead of giving the kids a time out.

Being interviewed by newspapers for selling toys on Ebay. please.

It's like the old Chris Rock bit:

"I take care of my kids!" You're suppose to you dumb fuck! You want a cookie or something?

and Dad'll realize when he's been rotting in the nursing home without a visit for a few years. Karma is a bitch.

material society would something like this cause the children to lock up their folks in a nursing home.

Some of you people really know how to stretch the hypotheticals.

"Hey dad, you miserable SOB. Remember 70 years ago when me and my brothers were acting like little assholes and you took away our gameboys? Well now were going to board you up in that wall and listen to you scream".

Please :eyes:

but since you kept your name out, I'll use the fictional character that you inspired). What is really the problem here? Father beat you up? Kids don't respect you? Boss humiliates you at work? The missus (Petunia) witholds marital favors?
That's a bit too much venom for "cursing and bad grammar" - and you know it. be careful what you wish for!

Could it just be that I'm just one of "those people" who dosen't think that taking away the kids presents is a bad thing.

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and non-thinking. Remember when I said some people live in an alternate reality. You are one of them Mr. keyboard commando.

It really is easy to personally insult other posters through the anonimity of the internet.

Have a Happy New Year

kids guilty of...cussing and using improper grammar....Yup. Seems to me about as proportional as the father's rampage. In general, the glee some felt at this sorry, pathetic story is a sign of an empty, sorry life...
And a Happy new year to you too.

the expert on an empty, sorry life.

My parents reasoned with me as I do with my children. Presents were never a tool of repression or incentive for good behavior. I can only remember mutual respect for generations - whatever conflicts were never based on need for revenge or payback - just on different views of the world. Eventually, we reconciled them, without vile cruelty or abuse. I guess that made me into a "bleeding heart liberal" :shrug:

just because I agree with the actions the father took. That is one of the most asinine assertions I've heard in awhile.

Once again, you people are using the my way is better method. Why is it that you can't seem to understand that everyone has different parenting styles and not all of them work.

You see his actions as repression, vile cruelty, and abuse(thats a stretch). I see a father who is taking stern action to address his children's disciplinary problems.

...I hope he feels nice and toasty-warm every time he goes to praise his God (the one who makes sure only good things happen to good people and bad things happen to bad people :eyes: ) from now on.

With any luck, it will be a foretaste of the sort of heat he'll be feeling in the long-term future.

:evilgrin:

scarred children, frustrated parents...
Few notice that presents should NEVER be used as either incentives or punishment. The entire scene is reminiscent of Dudley Durstley and his tantrum that he got less than 37 presents this birthday, only this time Vernon is applying the Harry treatment: locking in the cupboard & public humiliation.
And what about the a*hole paying 5,000+ for the "educational" gesture?
Well, the entire story, reaction to it is si sordid, it somehow makes sense people here don't give a damn about democracy. With lives as empty as those, why bother?

There were many more caring and reasonable ways to have handled it.

This really fits right into the "strict father" frame that Lakoff writes about.

:puke:

LOL...I love people like you. "Lets be caring and sensitive when we discipline" Gawd. Here's a story...
When I was 15 or 16 my family was at dinner WITH a guest that my brother had brought home from college for the weekend. For whatever reason I called my mother a "bitch" The next thing I know I was starring at the ceiling as my Dad had knocked me off my chair. I was stunned and humiliated and fucking furious BUT I remember it as a great lesson. There are consequences to actions. A very fine lesson. Was I abused. Hardly. As a smart assed little shit I got exactly what I deserved. Tell me. What "caring" and "sensitive" thing should have been applied instead of the horrid abuse I suffered?
:eyes:

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I nearly cheered when I saw this story

little brats don't deserve squat

And the challengers won both times. To each their kicks I guess.
maybe you should consider picking on someone your own size? :shrug:

This is the kind of crap that daddies do!!!!! Handing out half thought out, rash discipline...hearts of stone is all you can ever hope to find within a father's chest. Creeps!!!!
I guess that is why children in fatherless homes are more prone to drugs, violence, poverty, higher drop out rates, teenage pregnancy, etc.
Thank God for Daddies!!! Look at the Mom, crying.
I'm glad I'm not a parent. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. When spoiled, undisciplined kids grow up to be adults that are menaces to society, people want to blame the parents. But look at the homes that most of those adult offenders come from...usually, no daddies involved. Let's give the Dad a break. It's a hard job.