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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 08:58 AM
Original message
Pentagon ban on filming coffins defied
Thursday 13 January 2005, 10:08 Makka Time, 7:08 GMT

A US National Guard unit has defied a Pentagon request that sought to stop television news crews filming six flag-draped soldiers' coffins arriving in Louisiana.

The Pentagon has barred US media from filming the coffins of US service members arriving at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware.

But the Louisiana National Guard allowed a CBS news crew on Wednesday to film the arrival of six soldiers' coffins at the Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base in Belle Chasse, near New Orleans, Louisiana.

Despite the Pentagon request, Lieutenant-Colonel Pete Schneider, a spokesman for the Louisiana National Guard told CBS: "What we thought was, we're going to do what the family asked us to do."


http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/00E1EA83-3FDD-4284-BE10-25648D94C086.htm
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
1. I saw that on cable a while ago
and thought that the cracks are getting wider. Should be fun watching them turn on each other shortly.
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SheepyMcSheepster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
2. can you even believe this is really an issue?
it is just sick to try and hide the deaths due to their decisions/lies.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Since we don't have any WMD's to show for our efforts ...
It's time we started to show what the cost is for this farce.
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. It shouldn't be an issue
Smells like communism or something similar to me, but then, most things * does smell like that to me. If we don't see it, it must not be happening? I think we're starting to see a media rebellion - at least a little bit.
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UpInArms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. that smell is totalitarianism
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
37. Fascism, which is diametrically opposed to communism
Ever wonder why we don't worry much in this country about fighting fascism, as if it had been defeated for once and for all in 1945, whereas we get hysterical quite regularly over communism?

Some links about fascism:

"fas-cism (fbsh'iz'em) n. A system of government that exercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with belligerent nationalism."
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0316-08.htm


Keywords: Fascism
(with list of characteristics)
http://keywords.oxus.net/archives/000026.html

Fascism Anyone? by Laurence W. Britt
http://secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm

Friendly Fascism (Excerpts etc from Bertram Gross's book)
http://a4a.mahost.org/gross.html

What Is Fascism
(This one is quite good and incl. two-tiered legal system as well as many other hallmarks, and Dr. Lawrence Britt's list, and additional links)
http://www.couplescompany.com/FEATURES/Politics/Structure3.htm

Superpower Democracy (another must read)
http://www.greaterdemocracy.org/2003_07_01_gd.html#105880160504381723


IS AMERICA BECOMING FASCIST?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2159330
This article: IS AMERICA BECOMING FASCIST? http://www.crisispapers.org/topics/fascism.htm


Mussolini in his own words.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2413173

1944 article: American fascism (April 1944 article in NYTimes -- also see 1940s section for the complete article)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=212387

The F Scale
(Measures one's authoritarian personality profile, which makes one receptive to fascism, based on research done after WW2)
http://www.anesi.com/fscale.htm
link posted here: He's Acting Like Nixon in the Final DaysHas Bush Gone Over the Edge? (has some good links re fascist personality, etc.)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1725171

Bethune Institute Anti-Fascist Studies
http://bethuneinstitute.org/index2.html

The Spectre of Friendly Fascism by Bertrand Gross
(book excerpt)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Specter_FriendlyFascism_FF.html

Eternal Fascism: Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt
By Umberto Eco
http://www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_blackshirt.html

Freedom to Fascism -- -- A Bumpy Ride
http://207.44.245.159/article7054.htm

Germany In 1933: The Easy Slide Into Fascism
Bernard Weiner, June 9, 2003
http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/germany-1933.htm

The Brownshirting of America
http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts75.html

Several articles here: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles.htm


Living Under Fascism
Davidson Loehr
7 November 2004
First UU Church of Austin
http://www.uua.org/news/2004/voting/sermon_loehr.html
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susanna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
34. I have the photo from the woman who was fired for her photos...
Edited on Thu Jan-13-05 10:57 PM by susanna
Tami Silicio. It's the interior of a cargo plane bound for the U.S. containing flag-draped coffins.

I have it framed on my desk, as I lost a dear old friend in Iraq at the very start of this nightmare. The photographer explained what she did, saying that she wanted to show people that their deceased loved ones were treated with care as they were brought home. I appreciated that so much during the grieving process. It helped bring a closure I had not experienced yet. Funerals, long considered a way to begin closure for those left behind, was too sudden, too shocked and far too silent.

I say the Louisiana folks understand the concept of beginning to grieve. Good for them.

Update for clarity
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Florida_Geek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. Sad part is this is 4 months too late
pictures like this could have changed a lot of votes.
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noshenanigans Donating Member (778 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. I saw this on the CBS news last night..
Edited on Thu Jan-13-05 09:15 AM by noshenanigans
and I became just enraged at the * regime wanting to keep people from seeing the repurcussions of their hubris. It was very moving. Actually that entire news broadcast, ol' Dan Rather seemed to be daring the Freepers to Bring It On.

I want to have hope that the tide is turning.
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rkc3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #5
24. It's a shame that it's CBS doing the filming.
This will just reinforce to the nutjobs how librul CBS is. We should let CBS know we appreciate their efforts in showing this footage.
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noshenanigans Donating Member (778 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. great point- letter written. n/t
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oneighty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Perhaps CBS people say
fool me once my fault.

Now they gonna sally forth with great care and to hell with government control.

Gloves are off.

Sure 180.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. If people think it is liberal to allow the filming of our soldiers ...
returning to our homeland, it just makes me more proud to be a liberal.
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. It's about time..
Edited on Thu Jan-13-05 09:17 AM by TwoSparkles
...that the media stopped taking marching orders from the government.

It's disgusting that the government would mandate such suppression--but the media members who follow marching orders are even more disgusting!

This is only a "Pentagon request". There is no law banning the media from showing the coffins.

The media needs to quit being so lazy, complacent and in lockstep with a government that is attempting to hide the truth.

Quit acting like PR people--you reporters!!! It's not your job to make the government look good. It's your job to report the news and to tell the truth. Get off of your lazy butts, show some courage and do what this CBS News Crew did!

...and hat's off to Lieutenant-Colonel Pete Schneider did as well.
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jus_the_facts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
7. The Cajun's said to hell with what they wanted....
.....made me actually PROUD of my state last night when I saw this aired on the Dan Rather show last night...sigh! :thumbsup:

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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
9. Does anybody have the pictures?
What is that picture posted with the article? Looks like a protest photo. I've got some freepers that would love to see the real thing/not.
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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
10. I saw the CBS report on it last night as well,
and was just sad that the story was the showing of the coffins, and not the tragedy of MORE DEATHS.

Don't misunderstand - I am ENORMOUSLY grateful to Lieutenant-Colonel Schneider, and to CBS and the others for covering it, but it's just shameful that after more than 1300 of these flag-draped caskets have come home, it is a news story that we're allowed to see six of them.
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. What sucks is that if you go to their (CBS) website you can't ...
readily find the story. ABC had the story on this mornings news too.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. Good criminals always hide the bodies of their victims
This must be stopped.

We cannot let the american people see that their countrymen are being killed and maimed for a lie.

/sarcasm
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
12. Found the CBS Video
What a dose of reality watching the pallbearers carry them from the plane to the hearse.

http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?channel=i_video&clip=/media/2005/01/13/video666634&sec=201&vidId=201&title=Fallen$@$GIs$@$Get$@$Public$@$Ceremony&hitboxMLC=national

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jhain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Despite what the Pentagon wants
We acknowledge those transport planes bringing bodies home... they fly directly over our house right before Dover...
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
13. a couple of additional sources
Edited on Thu Jan-13-05 10:31 AM by Historic NY
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64134-2005Jan10.html

Tiny Corner of La. Mourns 6 Soldiers
As More Guard and Reserve Units Are Called, Neighbors Face Death Together
By Manuel Roig-Franzia
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, January 11, 2005; Page A01


HOUMA, La., Jan. 10 -- Bradley Bergeron grew up, as they say around here, "way down on the bayou," a sliver of high ground south of town called Upper Little Caillou. Bergeron was no homecoming king, no valedictorian, just a nice kid who blended in with his class. But he was a star on that day last October when the "Black Sheep," this town's National Guard unit, left for Iraq.

The 2nd Battalion, 256th Infantry Brigade's call-up for overseas duty was a big deal. There were parades and speeches. The high school band performed, and the local government handed out American flags. The Black Sheep drew a crowd.

Now this heavily Cajun city of shrimpers and oil riggers, an hour and a half southwest of New Orleans, is trying to figure out how to handle another communal gathering: a funeral for the boys they just sent off. Bergeron and five of his fellow Louisiana Guardsmen died in an explosion on Thursday in Baghdad while they were searching for weapons stockpiles. Half of them came from Houma, a city of 30,000, and the rest from towns nearby.

After more than a thousand deaths of U.S. troops in Iraq, these six losses may give a glimpse of the future. As the United States relies more and more on the National Guard and the reserves, the moments of sharpest misery at home can tend to become concentrated in one spot, rather than spreading out. Troops from the same regions in the Guard and reserves fight together -- and sometimes die together -- unlike in regular military units, which tend to be made up of men and women who come from widely scattered parts of the country.

"These units are localized," said Ken Delcambre, an Army veteran and principal at South Terrebonne High School, where Bergeron graduated. "If they were using regular Army, it would be different. . . . The true price of what freedom costs -- it hits you in the face."

The cluster of deaths in south Louisiana -- the most suffered by a National Guard unit in a single incident during the Iraq conflict -- has stoked the increasingly impassioned debate about the Bush administration's reliance on Guard and reserve troops in Iraq.

Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.), who was in Iraq on an inspection tour when news broke about the deaths, has spent the days since urging the Pentagon to increase the size of the full-time military and rely less on part-time soldiers.

"Our troops are stretched -- they will, in fact, break," she said over the weekend. "You cannot do democracy on the cheap."

Nor can you clean up after a big storm or a flood back home. At a national governors conference last year, several governors -- including Mark Sanford, a conservative Republican from South Carolina and an Air Force reservist -- fretted that the huge number of deployments might leave states understaffed in the event of a major natural disaster.

More than a third of the 150,000 U.S. troops in Iraq are members of the National Guard or reserves. At least 162 members of the National Guard and 107 reservists have been killed in the conflict, and the death totals for part-time soldiers have been rising, from three in January 2004 to a high of 26 in November. Already, since the beginning of this year, 12 have been killed.

Hunt Downer of Houma, a former Louisiana state legislator and gubernatorial candidate who is now the second-ranking officer in the state National Guard, said the deaths rattled his tightknit home town. Downer's children had socialized with most of the Guardsmen who died, and he went to school with some of their parents in this town where lyrical Cajun names -- Bergeron, Molaison, Gaudet -- are everywhere. After visiting each family, Downer said, he was amazed at their resiliency.

" 'He died doing what he loved to do,' " Downer recalled several of the mothers telling him. "It was poignant."

The Black Sheep who left Houma to cheers were a typical unit, filled with construction workers, cops and teachers. Bergeron, 25, made his living as a heating and air-conditioning technician before being called to Iraq. He signed his name with the nickname "Mickey Mouse" on a poster hung in the armory. His mother, Angela Bergeron, told the Associated Press that he planned to ask his girlfriend to marry him when he returned home.

Spec. Warren Murphy, 29, who died in the same explosion that killed Bergeron, was a tugboat deckhand; Sgt. Christopher Babin, 27, drove a cement truck; Spec. Armand Frickey, 20, was the assistant manager at a pizza place; Spec. Huey Fassbender, 24, worked at a restaurant. The oldest of them -- Sgt. 1st Class Kurt Comeaux, 34 -- was a probation officer.

Their photos were tacked to a makeshift memorial Monday -- 11 little American flags and a pile of bouquets at the base of the big flagpole outside the National Guard Armory. Each face is a study in stoicism, except Frickey's, that is -- he's grinning wide.

A handwritten note, clipped to a bouquet, reads: "Love and prayers for the living and the dead. Thanks for the freedom." A red-headed woman stands two steps away, quietly weeping into the shoulder of a sturdy state trooper.

Joining the National Guard is a big thing here. Everyone seems to know someone who is a Black Sheep or was a Black Sheep or wants to be a Black Sheep.

"It may be because of our culture of hunting and fishing," Delcambre said. "In my opinion, everybody should serve."

He doesn't think the deaths will sour the kids who tromp around his school on military service. The college money and the extra paycheck can look pretty good to a lot of kids here as the shrimping industry shrinks and jobs get harder and harder to come by.

The recruiting poster in the armory has its appeal, too. "You can" is written above a photograph of a soldier rappelling. Beneath, it says: "and still make it home for dinner."

Research editor Lucy Shackelford contributed to this report.


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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
15. Lt. Col. Schneider--we salute your courage in honoring our fallen
and in honoring the family of the fallen.
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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
16. The news did have a different feel to it last night
Now, if they only sustain it. this should have been shown 1357 times, and all of the wounded at walter reed, should have been welcomed home, not snuck in the back door in the dead of night.
Saddly, I'm not sure if they did this every night if it would wake people up, we may be too far gone already.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. exactly what pencil neck NeoCons want to avoid
Cannon Fodder as anything other than an abstract number is bad news for Rovians.

Sinclair Broadcasting knows this.
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Divernan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
19. These deaths were the price of corporate welfare/revenge-not "freedom"
Edited on Thu Jan-13-05 10:13 AM by Divernan
Several local Louisiana people quoted in this article, said things like "sometimes, the price of freedom hits you in the face" or wrote memorials like "thank you for the freedom". They evidently devoutly believe that if their sons and friends had not been blown to bits in Iraq, those Iraqis would be over blowing up the bayous & shrimp boats of Louisiana.

And you know, this will just make it less and less likely for them to EVER face the realities that (1) it was Saudi Arabians, NOT Iraqis who carried out 9-11; (2) that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, (3) Bush KNEW these two facts and therefore (4) the invasion of Iraq and the consequent horrifying deaths of their beloved young men was to benefit Bush's true agenda - revenge, racism, and corporate/military/industrial complex welfare/profits. In fact, it is Bush's War On Iraq and his attacks on thousands of Iraqi civilians and wanton destruction of the infrastructure of Iraq, that have served to recruit thousands and thousands of arabs to the terrorists' ranks.. In that these National Guardsmen were used by Bush to further these results, these men's deaths not only failed to secure freedom, their deaths were part of a war that has put us more at risk from terrorists.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I don't know about the Louisiana National Guard, but I want the Indiana
National Guard here at home helping with our flooding and not in Iraq dying and suffering for absolutely nothing!
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
20. Sen. Blank (Blanche) Lincoln of Arkansas proudly supports
"our president" on the filming of returning coffins issue. She couldn't even give me a straight answer when I emailed her about it. Her reply read like a DLC press release.

PROPS to the Louisiana National Guard. To hell with "Democrats" like Lincoln, who will never have my vote again.

:freak:
dbt
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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:22 AM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you, Lieutenant Colonel Pete Schneider! Standing up to the neocons!!
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LibertyLover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
22. Parents
From what I heard this morning on the radio about this, the parents of the dead soldiers, when told of the Pentagon "advice", said no, go ahead and show our dead loved ones coming home for the last time. Bravery - it's not just on the battlefield anymore.
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loritooker Donating Member (376 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
26. Thanks to the LA families who allowed us to share their grief.
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CornField Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. The press ban doesn't bother me nearly as much as the family ban
Family members are no longer allowed to travel to Dover (or any other initial arrival spot) when their loved one returns.
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hector459 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. That's because they will see too many other coffins and will know the
truth. Many more US soldiers are being killed than we are being told.
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NYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
31. Lieutenant-Colonel Pete Schneider is a courageous man.
Sometimes, it takes courage to do the right thing.
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DemonFighterLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Important Subject
Edited on Thu Jan-13-05 11:03 PM by DemonFighterLives
:kick:
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
35. There are always little boys and girls sobbing into their teddybears
in front of their parents flag-draped coffins. It's been on the front page of the paper here, now and then, but for the most part its hidden.
Why do they have to pay the price to install an intolerant shia regime?
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buddysmellgood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
36. When Bush dies, repuklicans better refuse to let his coffin be shown.
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Acryliccalico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-13-05 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I think that Night line had something about
the * government hiding the fact that our kids are dieing over there. It was about a year ago when some pictures got out. The news can really hide stuff when they want, so we must keep this thing in front of the public's face. Not to cause pain to the families, but to show that war (especially an unjust one) is never worth the cost.
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