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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:11 PM
Original message
Recall Politicking May Jeopardize Church's Tax-Exempt Status
Edited on Wed Sep-17-03 08:25 PM by LastDemInIdaho
The First African Methodist Episcopal Church in south central Los Angeles may be headed for tax problems as a result of the rally held on Sunday for California Governor Gray Davis.

According to newspaper reports, Clinton encouraged those in the congregation to vote against the effort to recall Davis. "Don't do this. Don't shred your Constitution. Don't shred the fabric of government," Clinton said. "Don't tell people Californians are so impatient that they give somebody an employment contract and then tear it up in the middle because times are tough. This is the right thing to do, to beat this recall."

According to federal law, churches and other organizations with a 501(c)3 tax-exempt status are barred from engaging in political activities on behalf of or against any candidate for public office. Boston says newspaper accounts of the rally are clear on the partisan nature of the event.

"They all agree on the fact that Clinton endorsed Davis, that Davis himself appealed for votes," he says. "I think the appropriate thing to do here would be to turn this into the IRS and ask them to examine this church's tax-exempt status."

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/1220316.html
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. What about all the churches who supported Judge Moore in Alabama?
Why target one Democrat when there are thousands of Republicans doing the same thing?

How many California churches are supporting McClintock?

Something stinks.
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'm only aware of what is on the news
Any and all should be banned. The ACLU had best get to work.
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Coventina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hmmmm.........what I find interesting
is that when I used to go to church, in a VERY WHITE, VERY UPPER-MIDDLE CLASS, VERY SUBURBAN, Presbyterian church, "voting guides" were regularly handed out to congregation members. They were published by the Christian Coalition. You can just imagine how we were encouraged to vote. Yet, as far as I can remember, there was never any question about OUR tax-exempt status!

More double standards.

:puke:
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Torgo Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. About those double standards...
About a year ago, while serving on the Session of our local Presbyterian Church, I came across a bulletin board display and leaflets created by one of our chirch members in support of a State Representative and his (right wing) causes.

I immediately summoned the Pastor and had him destroy the leaflets and take down the bulletin board, reminding him of the possible tax status consequences.

I would have done the same if it had been my favorite Democrat!

The church cannot be anyone's political propaganda showcase!

Although I support their cause, the use of the pulpit by that California church for political purposes was patently wrong.

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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Please edit your post
DU copyright rules state that a maximum of four paragraphs of an article may be posted unless the article is in the public domain.
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Better
Nitch?
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maryallen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. What about Falwell and Robertson?
Both of them politicize their sermons.
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. They should be taxed
Period.
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Dookus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. well...
Davis isn't a candidate for public office.
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Torgo Donating Member (966 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. A technicality perhaps...
but his status as Governor hinges on the outcome of the vote.

I think you could rightly identify Davis as a candidate running to preserve his office.
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Fish Eye Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
41. If the vote for recall
suceeds then he is a candidate. If he is looking for votes in case of a recall then he is a candidate. Who really believes that he is not a candidate for govenor???
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Then a very large Southern Baptist Church in our city did it also.
They as a church stood for the war as a holy and just war. They took sides on a war. They called Bush chosen.

Does that qualify?
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. They should be taxed too.
No excuse.
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pasadenaboy Donating Member (877 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. They are totally in the clear
the law applies to candidates, not issues or propositions.

So, Clinton and Davis were urging a no vote on the recall. They were not endorsing a specific candidate.

This will go nowhere.
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Great. All they need is to say the 10c are NOT a candidate, a suggestion
Edited on Wed Sep-17-03 08:45 PM by LastDemInIdaho
Bingo! Post it on the courthouse steps!
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. LOL shoulda read this before I posted
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nothingshocksmeanymore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
13. A vote against the recall is not a vote for Davis
It is a vote against the recall. This is how Repubs use churches and the abortion issue. No difference. It is an issue NOT a person.
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Ok fine. The 10C will become an issue and not a person.
Funny how that works.
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
17. Re: "Recall Politicking May Jeopardize Church's Tax-Exempt Status"
MSNBC last night had one of their guys in primetime talking about this - according to him, 501(c) regulations have specific loopholes designed to not only allow but encourage politicians to go to churchs and speak to the voters about issues. This is just more people letting their ideology blind them to the truth of the law.
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Gotta love them loop holes
Let's hope none of the church thoughts get into our public buildings.
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jfxgillis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Right on, kiahzero
I normally don't care for Dan Abrams--it's just too too TOO tabloidy, all Kobe all the time after being all Laci all the time--but I happened to catch that segment by a fluke and I was real happy I did.

This is the first time in like 25 years that this issue has come up (starting with Falwell and Reagan in 1980) that a NEWS segment EXPLAINED THE FUCKING LAW.

Good God, it shouldn't take 25 years for one itty-bitty SPECIFIC provision in the law to get explained, should it?

Worthless damn media.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. Hi kiahzero!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:


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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. well then they better take away TBN & 700C lubs tax exempt status too!!!
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Please do!
More room for better programming on the tube.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
21. Okay, now I think the Southern Christian Coilition needs to be taxed
for similar and many more reasons.
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Finally. I thought that before this obvious revelation
Imagine that.
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. Christian Coalition needs to be taxed VERY heavily
and also gone out of business. Permanently.

Hawkeye-X
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CO Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
37. Don't Forget "Focus On The Family"
Another thoroughly worthless organization.
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Fish Eye Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. More taxes for churchs??
Edited on Thu Sep-18-03 08:05 PM by Fish Eye
And special interest groups...Why??
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
22. gee, news flash: DAVIS ISN'T A CANDIDATE FOR OFFICE
right wing morons...
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. And the 10C is?
THe problem with technical is it's a slight of hand.
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Fish Eye Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
43. Is he on the ballot??
??
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wabeewoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 09:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. Ok, since they opened this can of worms
and since the RW repugs are determined to blur the line between church and state then we need to start taxing them all. Especially those who want to take federal funds for students attending church sponsored schools. If there is no separation of church and state then by what argument should churches remain untaxed? That would probably solve our decifit right there. Then when they do service or programs for the poor they could take that off their taxes-exemptions just like the rest of us taxpayers. And while we are at it, lets take a look at all the other churches that are promoting bush and the repugs.
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LastDemInIdaho Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Tax them them all...let God sort them out
Heh. Heh.
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #27
36. LOLOLOL!!!!!!!
And welcome to DU! :hi:
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #26
39. That is a great idea, tax them all,
make them corporations in the state they are in. They can take all deductions that all corporations do, then they pay taxes on their profits. Let's see how the fundies like that
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Fish Eye Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #39
44. Not all churches
are fundamentalist. By all means taxe profit and transfer but how do you calculate profit for a church? If the church creates wealth through interest on investments then tax the interest and if the church makes a profit from a business venture then tax it. The majority of the money that the majority of churches have in the bank or assets comes from donations of the members.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
28. What about all the bush preaching from the pulpits of the fundies??
The whole fundie movement was a Rove scam. There's an interesting part in Franken's Lies book about bush's partner at a year long retreat to study the bible...one single chapter of the bible for a year...and the guy with bush on the retreat didn't know one thing about that chapter of the bible when asked by Franken. I'll bet they spent the year with buddy Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, Filthy Falwell, and the rest of the christian cretins and learned how to con the fundies.
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
29. sigh
Edited on Wed Sep-17-03 10:11 PM by lazarus
Just remove tax-exempt status from all churches, stop subsidising religion, and this sort of problem won't come up.

edited for speeling errers.
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Robin Hood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-17-03 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
32. My wife quit going to her church because they were pro bush
Edited on Wed Sep-17-03 11:53 PM by Liberal_Guerilla
And the preacher talked right wing politics every sunday, telling people what to think about politics. If that church loses tax exemption than all should lose it.

Are they sure that they want to open up this can of whoop ass?

I think that they should all be taxed. They've been engaging in politics for a long, long time. Just look at the far right.
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cally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. I almost hope they do
so all the rw churches lose their tax exempt status also. I attended a church, only one Sunday, that passed out suggestions for voting. All republicans who they said supported the "Christian" mission of the church. I called the Minister and Deacons and complained and never went back. But shouldn't they lose their tax expempt status.

I also agree that Clinton was not promoting a candidate but opposing the recall. It is different than what the RW churches are doing.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
35. I would say this is issue oriented instead of for a candidate
Davis is not running so how can they be campaigning for Davis. It is against the Recall and that is a huge issue. I think issue oriented talks are authorized just like soft money.
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thebeaglehaslanded Donating Member (518 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
38. All churches should be taxed.
They are simply business in the category "Religion". All business taxes should apply, all income taxes should apply, all property taxes should apply. Then use the pulpit any way you want, 'cause you're paying for the right to do so.
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-18-03 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. oh yeah, and some of them are very very profitable!
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