Pope's No. 2 addresses resignation

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/02/08/pope.health.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

Pope's No. 2 addresses resignation
Tuesday, February 8, 2005 Posted: 5:48 AM EST (1048 GMT)


Sodano: "We must have great faith in the pope. He knows what to do."

ROME, Italy (AP) -- A top Vatican official responded to a sensitive question that many Roman Catholics have been asking for a while: Would ailing Pope John Paul II ever consider stepping down?

"Let's leave that hypothesis up to the pope's conscience," said the Holy See's No. 2, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, in answer to a reporter's query Monday.

Sodano expressed hope that John Paul -- hospitalized for a week with flu and breathing troubles -- would surpass Pius IX's 32 years in office, the longest papacy.

Still, he surprised some observers by not ruling out a resignation, which could indicate there is debate within the Vatican on the issue. Popes may resign but cannot be forced to do so.

"If there is a man who loves the Church more than anybody else, who is guided by the Holy Spirit, if there is a man who has marvelous wisdom, that's him. We must have great faith in the pope. He knows what to do," said Sodano, the Vatican's secretary of state, who is often mentioned as a possible papal successor.

complete story:

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/02/08/pope.health.ap/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

that John Paul II is considering resignation now. I have applauded his continuing in the papacy as long as he has because he has shown the world that the elderly and the disabled can still be productive. But if his latest illness has made it much more difficult for him to carry out the work required of him and he chooses to step down now, he has more than done his part. Viva il Papa!

It really makes little difference when one papal reign ends and the next one begins. The Papacy is nothing more than an equivalency to Ken Lay & Enron - a mortal with too much power over an insanely huge cash cow, with criminal and unethical behavior run amok throughout the ranks. The only redeeming quality I can find in the Catholic religion is at the parish level, where Catholics put their faith into action. The farther you go up into the heirarchy, the deeper the bullshit and corruption.

Americans are entitled to hold their own opinions and free speech.

To be so offensive and it's not even past 9 in the morning.

plenty of good. I think you're being too extreme.

was, well, the whole post.

Good observation and far more restrained than most...

Actually, at the parish level, for every Maryknoll you find 10 KCs--so that's debateable whether it is redeeming.

I was just pointing out what I believe to be the obvious, not bash the whole Catholic church. I think the Catholic church does a lot of wonderful work...again,down in the trenches at the parish level. I stand by my observation that the higher up the hierarchy you go, the worse it gets in terms of corruption.

If those who were so offended by my first reply to this topic would go back and examine it a little more closely, they will see I didn't attack the current pope or wish him any ill will. I merely said I beleive it makes little difference when one papacy ends and another begins. The music will remain the same as it has for centuries, and therefore, so will the dance. And that is most unfortunate.

The Church insists on being the sole arbiter of what is
moral. Civil law legalizes contraception and
abortion. Governments are thereby challenging the prerogative
of the pope to be the ultimate authority on matters of
morality. Most Americans look to democratic process
to determine morality. In the simplest analysis, the
Church cannot coexist with such an arrangement, which in
its view, threatens its very survival as a world political
power.

http://www.population-security.org/STLouis99.html

Worldwide overpopulation is the greatest risk to public
health that we have ever encountered. The single obstacle
to solving this problem is not money or the lack of
acceptable family planning choices, but the opposition by
a small group of extreme reactionaries now in control of
the Roman Catholic Church. Uncounted numbers of people
are denied access to contraception and abortion by the
political machinations of a pope who is, by the dogma of
his religion, unable to change his
mind.

This is not an anti-Catholic website. It is critical of the
church's hierarchy, not of its religious
beliefs.
As a public health professional my responsibility is to
identify risks to the health and well-being of people,
find appropriate solutions, and identify barriers to the adoption
of programs that will ensure a healthy
future

http://www.population-security.org/index_of_issues.htm

it (CIA evaluation) is widely optimistic in that it says all
the pending disaster to global society will not occur for
another ten years. This is very wishful thinking because many
of the problems are now up and running and will happen
long before 2020. The slump of the dollar and the elevation
of the euro is actually upon us now, even as I write, and
other problems are even more immediate. I have seen an
NOAA report on the catastrophic melting of both polar
icecaps that states, with great firmness, that the sea levels
are now rising and in less than three years will have reached
the point where high tides and storm-surges will to
terrible damage to low-lying areas such as the American
Gulf Coast.

www.tbrnews.org/Archives/a1364.htm

The Church better have a plan. I don't think they do.

would also mean that it would have had to support slavery, economic injustices, worker abuse, etc.

The real problem I perceive within the church is that its leaders often ignore larger issues when they become focused on a single issue.

Ignore is the key word here

I look forward to the debate.

yours,
James

Sorry, couldn't resist.

:tinfoilhat:

Is there any presidence for a papal resignation?

The people around him are obviously propping him up. If he goes they loose power in the organization :think:

Coupling of guests and courtesans followed with prizes in
the form of fine silken tunics and offered ‘for those who
could perform the act most often with the
courtesans’.”

March of Follies Barbara Tuchman

Not one of the Church's favorite's, I bet.

The schism was now an accomplished fact, and for 40
years Christendom was treated with the melancholy spectacle
of 2 and even 3 rival Popes claiming its allegiance.  It was
the most perilous crisis through which the Church had
ever passed.  Both Popes declared a crusade against
each other.  Each of the Popes claimed the right to
create cardinals and to confirm archbishops, bishops,
and abbots, so that there were 2 Colleges of Cardinals and
in many places 2 claimants for the high positions in the
Church.  Each Pope attempted to collect all the
ecclesiastical revenues, and each excommunicated the
other with all his adherents. 

http://www.truecatholic.org/greatschism.htm

That's an important man.

Why should anyone care about Karl Wojtyla's health or resignation prospects more than anyone elses?

Is the president of the Lutheran church considering resigning? How is Jerry Falwell's health?

If there is a bias in the media when it comes to religion, it is definitely in favor of the Roman Catholics. The MSM tend to cover it like it really IS the only 'Christian' church in the world. (Unless they are toadying for Bush, then it's all about the Baptists.)

I'm not a member of the Roman church, I don't care anymore or less about Karl W's health than any other human being's.

ia also a major diplomat and the Prince of Vatican City. He is at least the equivelant of Ranier of Monaco .And we would here about his health too! The Pope is more influntial though and is perceived as a world leader. The others are not.

Telegraph
February 9, 2005

Rome: The possibility that the Pope might resign because of his failing health has been publicly acknowledged for the first time by his second-in-command.

Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Vatican's secretary of state, sparked speculation that the issue had been discussed at the highest levels after he failed to discount the prospect. Such matters, he said on Monday, should be left entirely to the Pope, who "knows what to do".

Vatican officials said John Paul II was improving but would remain in hospital until tomorrow, raising new questions about the real state of his health.

It has emerged that the Pope's condition on the night he was taken to hospital was far more serious than at first realised.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Vatican-fuels-talk-of-Pope-resigning/2005/02/08/1107625213384.html?oneclick=true

By Richard Owen in Rome

THE senior cardinal who is running the Vatican in the absence of the Pope stunned Vatican-watchers yesterday by conceding for the first time that the visibly ailing pontiff might resign.

Asked whether the Pope, 84, should step down as his illness worsens, Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the Secretary of State (Prime Minister), himself the Pope’s deputy and a potential successor, said that the decision should be “left to the conscience of the Pope”. He added: “We should have faith in him. If there is one man who knows what to do, it is he.”

It was the first time that a top Vatican figure had raised the possibility of resignation. Previous statements had insisted that the position was for life.

Cardinal Sodano, 77, a seasoned former diplomat from Piedmont who has been Secretary of State since 1990, has rarely stepped out of line. Although canon law provides for a pontiff to step down if incapacitated, no pope has voluntarily resigned since Celestine V at the end of the 13th century. The Pope has said repeatedly that he will never retire or resign, having asked: “Did Christ come down from the Cross?”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1475119,00.html

Sounds as if Sodano is backing the Pope 1000%. heh.

Right down to the double chin and the chubby fingers.