Country Bracing For Draft

I feel guilty about it already, but the FIRST thing I'm going to do is call up a couple of dumbass friends of mine for a conversation something like this:

"Hello?"

"BOY, THANK GOD THERE'S NOT GOING TO BE A DRAFT! BUSH SAID SO!" <click>

I'm not going to let the conversation go any further than that. I don't need to hear the "he was forced into it by Clinton" argument that will commence.

One of them I know his parents voted for Bush. I could not imagine either of my little cousins going to war.

He shouldn't have voted for Shrub....

Back when I was drafted (and in the semi-backwoods area where I grew up), the possibility of pretending to be gay to beat the draft never even occurred to me. Even if it had occurred to me, I wouldn't have given it a second thought. Today, I wouldn't give it a second thought either, in the opposite way. Today I'd go in to the physical and kiss any guy on the lips who'd cooperate.

To adapt Arlo Guthrie's lyrics:

If one person walks in, sits down, kisses the doctor on the lips, and says "I wanta make love," they'll think he's nuts and throw him out.

And if two people walk in, sit down, kiss the doctor on the lips, and say "I wanta make love," they'll think they're both gay and reject them.

And if fifty people, I say can you imagine fifty people a day, walk in, sit down, kiss the doctor on the lips, and say "I wanta make love," folks, they're gonna know it's a movement.

But they're so locked into their gay-hating ways, what are they gonna do?

Didn't kiss anyone, though. There was a question on the form they had to fill out at the physical: Have you ever had any homosexual experiences? He checked YES. They made him go sit on a bench for hours. Then he was called in by the shrink who asked him if he wanted to talk about it.

"No," he said. And that was it.

They will be demanding more specific proof beyond a quick kiss. They want to know names, dates, etc so they can check out that you are really homosexual rather than using it as a ploy. Things have changed. And you can be returned from Canada so that's not as safe either. Wonder how many yound people will go to prison rather than war? I knew a family with 2 boys in jail during Viet Nam, preachers kids who couldn't get CO status.

People here at DU seem to be signing up like mad for seats on the Selective Service Boards, myself included. hehe.

Here's the scary part... to convince the American public about it, there is going to have to be another attack. I'd bet my bottom dollar on it.

and I don't doubt these neocon bastards could pull it off either

2007 at the LATEST.

But I don't think the Busheviks are going to wait that long.

They need that fresh blood NOW.

I wasn't. My guess was that I was too young (28).

But many of us know about the hidden discrimination that's so common in society today.

Anyway, I've only requested the sign-up packet and haven't received it yet.

All it will take is another Gulf of Tonkin incident w/ Iran or Syria "shooting" at us.

so that when it happens (and, yes, I do think it's 'when' not 'if' - but I'd be overjoyed to be wrong) people are ready to think critically about it, unlike 9/11, when the public was too much in shock to allow themselves to ask the question "who does this benefit?"

So please, keep on making your point. The administration needs the draft, but before they can get it, they need a 'terrorist' attack to make people accept one.

and the dems don't have the balls or principles to lay the blame where it belongs--on the Bushies.

profesional military force and no draft was gonna happen? <snicker>

by the way if ritter is correct the execute order for Iran is June 1st and the six hour AP story on the draft for June 15, was well June 15th, 2005... activate it in the midst of military action...

You think they would do that? Nah you don't say

Draft Jenna and Barbara!!!!

if you want a double-dose of irony.

the SUV drivers and Young Rethuglikkkans first

has a flag, and is all fof this war, but has other priorities.

I told him once I'd help him pack... I guess I should remind him of that offer. After all soon he will have to put that flag down and pick up htat rifle, if he is lucky they will even give him Interceptor Armor. He is only a lowly draftee so he should not count on it

and would make great Bushbots.

I told them this was going to happen if * they helped put him back in office for a second term.

Just wait till they start the lottery numbers :scared:

and dying. They're cowards of the highest order. Of course, they only emulate their Dear Leader.

Called up our house for my college attending step-son. He has the same first name and so he thought I was him. I carried on a conversation with him for a few moments. He ask me about my plans after I graduate from high school and if I thought the military might be my future. I told him I served my time Army a long time ago and what was he calling me for. Just after that he then realized he had the wrong person :D

Next time one of them call I will tell him that their Commander and Chief is a stinking AWOL and if they need more men they could call him to serve the rest of his time

Whar she stops, nobody knows! But it shore as shit won't be on a rich kid's number, that's the damned truth!



Yeah, I know the cage squeaks a little bit after it's bin a-settin' fer all these decades, but we'll just oil the son of a bitch... spin 'her out, boys!

Remeber that soldier that complained about the protestors on Fronline. Tell him I'd be more than happy to pick up a gun and elist, if the elected politicans put up their kids first...

Give up their suits for fatigues? lol

His getting "elected" (yeah, right) means he doesn't have to justify himself about anything. So he lied. So what? He has a mandate.

(sarcasm folks, sarcasm)

Why not? After all, Gannon/Guckert sure does know how to talk tough and swagger around like crazy. And he DOES fancy himself as a hot military stud, so he's halfway there already.

sigh

and only 9% decided it was important enough..guess they are going to get what they asked for!
i spent countless hours going to college campuses..i begged them to vote, i pleaded with them to vote..i told them i could do all the work but they needed to vote..they did not!
we registered a record number of young people..they just didnt show up!
fly

they did show up... but as many of us, their votes were not counted

This is a myth perpetuated by the RW that desires the young to be so disgusted and beleive that nothing will change they will NOT vote for real next election

As rhosdes puts it, people did not stand for 12 hours only to vote for Goerge

I was impressed

It's the 18-26 year olds who are NOT in college who need to be targeted. That's where most of your non-voters are in this age group.

The problem was that they were lost in the mix with everyone else.

yesterday. They pointed out the fact it will start out as a special services draft looking for those Doctors and nurses. Then will come an all out draft for all folks 18-34 yrs old. look out kids, it is coming!

On Edit: Here it is...

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/6862691

<snip>
Uncle Sam wants you. He needs you. He'll bribe you to sign up. He'll strong-arm you to re-enlist. And if that's not enough, he's got a plan to draft you.
In the three decades since the Vietnam War, the "all-volunteer Army" has become a bedrock principle of the American military. "It's a magnificent force," Vice President Dick Cheney declared during the election campaign last fall, "because those serving are ones who signed up to serve." But with the Army and Marines perilously overextended by the war in Iraq, that volunteer foundation is starting to crack. The "weekend warriors" of the Army Reserve and the National Guard now make up almost half the fighting force on the front lines, and young officers in the Reserve are retiring in droves. The Pentagon, which can barely attract enough recruits to maintain current troop levels, has involuntarily extended the enlistments of as many as 100,000 soldiers. Desperate for troops, the Army has lowered its standards to let in twenty-five percent more high school dropouts, and the Marines are now offering as much as $30,000 to anyone who re-enlists. To understand the scope of the crisis, consider this: The United States is pouring nearly as much money into incentives for new recruits -- almost $300 million -- as it is into international tsunami relief.

"The Army's maxed out here," says retired Gen. Merrill McPeak, who served as Air Force chief of staff under the first President Bush. "The Defense Department and the president seem to be still operating off the rosy scenario that this will be over soon, that this pain is temporary and therefore we'll just grit our teeth, hunker down and get out on the other side of this. That's a bad assumption." The Bush administration has sworn up and down that it will never reinstate a draft. During the campaign last year, the president dismissed the idea as nothing more than "rumors on the Internets" and declared, "We're not going to have a draft -- period." Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, in an Op-Ed blaming "conspiracy mongers" for "attempting to scare and mislead young Americans," insisted that "the idea of reinstating the draft has never been debated, endorsed, discussed, theorized, pondered or even whispered by anyone in the Bush administration."

That assertion is demonstrably false. According to an internal Selective Service memo made public under the Freedom of Information Act, the agency's acting director met with two of Rumsfeld's undersecretaries in February 2003 precisely to debate, discuss and ponder a return to the draft. The memo duly notes the administration's aversion to a draft but adds, "Defense manpower officials concede there are critical shortages of military personnel with certain special skills, such as medical personnel, linguists, computer network engineers, etc." The potentially prohibitive cost of "attracting and retaining such personnel for military service," the memo adds, has led "some officials to conclude that, while a conventional draft may never be needed, a draft of men and women possessing these critical skills may be warranted in a future crisis." This new draft, it suggests, could be invoked to meet the needs of both the Pentagon and the Department of Homeland Security.

The memo then proposes, in detail, that the Selective Service be "re-engineered" to cover all Americans -- "men and (for the first time) women" -- ages eighteen to thirty-four. In addition to name, date of birth and Social Security number, young adults would have to provide the agency with details of their specialized skills on an ongoing basis until they passed out of draft jeopardy at age thirty-five. Testifying before Congress two weeks after the meeting, acting director of Selective Service Lewis Brodsky acknowledged that "consultations with senior Defense manpower officials" have spurred the agency to shift its preparations away from a full-scale, Vietnam-style draft of untrained men "to a draft of smaller numbers of critical-skills personnel."

highly doubtful they will rewrite the law to allow 27-34 year olds to be drafted (except for the skills draft). There are over 20 million men age 18 to 26. To change the law for general conscription would literally crush the American economy.

A skills draft for doctors and nurses won't help us in our current manpower situation.

I am assuming this misadministration gets away with drafting ANYONE in that age range. The "skills" could turn into paperpushers to sanitation drivers. They have gotten away with everything else illegal they have ever done. Tell me, who will stop them?

At the bottom of the webpage are other related links


http://www.hasbrouck.org/draft/health.html

As the wars and the casualties continue and escalate, a medical professionals' draft could start in a hurry. Draft registration won't be needed. In the past, the AMA arranged to provide licensing lists on request to Selective Service, and Congress will probably require other professional and licensing boards to do likewise.

The 2003 AMA House of Delegates passed a resolution, introduced by the AMA Medical Student Section, ordering a study and report on the implications of the Health Care Personnel Delivery System. That November 2004 report by the the AMA Council on Medical Education recommended, "That our American Medical Association continue to monitor the Health Care Personnel Delivery System (HCPDS) and initiate communication with the Selective Service System and other relevant governmental bodies to address questions and concerns related to the implementation of the HCPDS." Selective Service says it is prepared to draft people "professionally qualified" in more than 60 medical specialties, including physicians, dentists, psychologists, therapists, dietitians, technicians, nurses, veterinarians, pharmacists, opticians, "other medical care and treatment personnel", and "miscellaneous allied specialists".

Past Congressional proposals would have authorized a draft of medical workers ages 20 through 54, but Selective Service says that "requirements would likely be met" by those 20 through 44. The youngest would be drafted first. Since few physicians are 20 years old, significantly older people could be drafted in at least some fields.

As with current contingency plans for a general draft, health care workers who are drafted will have only ten days to report for examination and induction or to make any claim for deferment or exemption. If you don't want to be drafted, you should plan ahead. If you think you might qualify for deferment or exemption, see a draft counselor now. If you want to lobby against the draft do it now. If you plan to resist, say so now.


On edit:
Go to the very last page/bottom of this link (pg 11)...it lists who is covered under the so-called medical draft..everyone from docs to nurses to dental assistants, pharmacists, occupational therapists, medical supply people. It goes on and on. Throw in any "special skills" and CHIMP's people get to decide the definition of "special skills"----odds are the needed skills needed are NOT done by his have and have mores/elite base. So he gets his "draft" but still keeps his people happy cuz them and their kids won't be touched.

http://www.hasbrouck.org/draft/HCPDS-15AUG1989.pdf

times... This is a behind close doors way of accessing medical personal in case of major disasters and for the Military which is overstressed as it is...

At my local hospital we have been doing drills on Biological terrorism and nuclear terrorism due to Homeland Security

they have told us that if say Smallpox enters the hopital and we are quarentined. We won't be going home...until its lifted

This is what is being set up for all US Medical personal
we are not like other countries which most of their staff is employed by the state. Some of our staff is but the rest of the medical personal are independant... They can quit on the spot now how do you get these people to come into work This is a major disadvantage to having medical personal not under government control...

thus a draft would be perfect and they would get the personal for low wages...

and the ages will be older and in the 40's & 50's because most nurses are babyboomers...this is a reality

Not to say many medical personal would not dedicate their lives to helping others but our system has a major loophole... Socialized medicine does have its advantages in a crisis...

When the troops come home they will do so to a shattered economy in a former super power and NO social services.

This will be Dubya's legacy...

And this is NOT the worst case either

youthful anger is exactly what the booooshies want. it will enable their draft ("Shit, man, might as well go over there and shoot somebody, and if I get killed, so fuckin' what? Ain't nothin' here for me anyway.") and keep the home folks in a state of fear and anxiety.

Hell, with an America like that, who needs the Rapture?!

it's been clear all along that this was part of the goal; we'll be separated into two groups; those who fight for Empire, oil and reconstruction profits, and those who are the profiteers. BushCo has no intention of returning America to it's former Clintonian era of Peace and Prosperity for All. They aim to master a nation of slaves.

Alright, who is serving who; is the military serving the country or the country serving the military? This was the fundamental change dividing Imperial Rome from the Republic. Once the army stops serving the state, democracy dies. That's what I see here. Let's send our "best" Pele off to war. Who's going to suffer when they're over seas, if they don't come back or if they come back unable to work as they did before? Our economic system can not support this administration's unarticulated goals.

Why would we even consider "moving into Iran, Syria, North Korea, or anywhere else"?

STFU Biden you idiot

and I am not kidding, rumors have been flying about that one... and don't ask for links, right now I don't have them

:shrug: At the same time, I agree with his view that the military should be largely composed of (non-careerist) "citizen-soldiers." Participation in all functions of governance, including the national defense, is absolutely critical for a democracy. Without it, we're merely watching a stage show.

You hit that one on the head.

It was no accident they got rid of the draft before they
cranked up the Raygun Revolution. There was way too much
public participation going on back then for the tastes of
our "leaders".

The oft-repeated disinformation that strong-arm regimes are supported by conscription ignores the fact that they don't obtain that power in the first place unless there's an in-place 'volunteer' military. Some of the healthiest European democracies have universal national service (e.g. Switzerland). The foreign militarism of Reagan/Bush would've been far more unpopular if the military were heavily supplemented with draftees.

I personally believe it would decrease racism. If young people from around the country had to work and live together, they would learn that good people come from all different backgrounds and colors.

I also believe it has an intangible benefit of building true patriotism.

I am a strong believer in 2-years of national service, with civil service options for objectors. I agree it does not cause militarism but has the opposite effect.

On edit: BUT - I am not in favor of a draft instituted during a needless war as we have now.

"Even when they pissed me off, I had to admit there was something I liked about the draftees who didn't want to be there and made no bones about it. I like draftees in general, even with the attendant problems. Historically draftees have kept the military on the straight and narrow. By calling a spade a spade, they keep it clean. Without their "careers" to think about, they can't be easily bullied or intimidated as Regulars; their presence prevents the elitism that otherwise might allow a Regular army to become isolated from the values of the country it serves. Draftees are not concerned for the reputation of their employer, the Army (in Vietnam they happily blew the whistle an everything from phony valor awards to the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia); a draftee, 'citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy, one in which everyone pays the price Of admission." - Col. David Hackworth from his book About Face

Those are some words that this draftee, that added "no value", no advantage, really, to the United States armed services over any sustained period of time, understands. That being said, I will not support the draft when it arrives (oh, bet on it, the draft is looming right over the horizon) but the up side will be a radical change in this nation's thinking about the endless war on terriorism and this misadminstration's miserable foreign policy.

The only "attendant problems" I saw were draftees who didn't let the lifers get away with ignoring their own military regulations when they pulled authoritarian bullshit. I saw some lifers who'd talk a good line about "by the book" but toss out that same "book" whenever they wanted to - especially when it came to women, blacks, or "uppity" draftees. There're bad apples in any long-lasting big barrel, and military lifers were no exception. At the same time, I served with lifers that I'd back with my life (and did). (I thought it was particularly ironic that they'd resort to saying that I was "as good as any career soldier" when commending me. Bizarre.)

The intelligent, reality-based thing to say would be that since the military is already stretched thin, we'd better not be thinking about starting any more wars at the present moment. But, that's not how these people think. They look at the population of the US under 35 and all they see are potential weapons to be used in their "cause".

supporters, why on earth we should/would support this asshole?

He's been a * licker for four years, why should his support of a draft shock anyone?

if you get the drift.....

We dont need another 58,000 dead for no good reason again, do we?

The Draft makes sense. ie "give those poor white trash punks and darkies something to do".

People often join the military just because they need the money. Maybe that's why they don't give a damn about the job situation.

They wanted war on a nation that hadn't been doing anything to anyone; they should kill & die for it.

History says Oz forces follow "only" American forces into battle! If you guys/Gals go for the "Draft" we follow suit very quickly! There are a lot of very "Smug" people here who will not be "Keen" on a "Draft". LOL

Follow? You don't remember the U.S. ambassador informing Australians a couple years back that you will be in the front lines of the New Crusades, like it or not?

or invading Venezuela or Cuba. Biden's complaint is that there isn't enough canon fodder to feed the imperial army. Biden will vote for a draft just as surely as he voted for IWR and PATRIOT. Biden is a neocon puke!

I have to admit that I am reconsidering my views about Biden. He is very glib. His analyses are compelling if you accept the premise that we must go/invade anywhere/everywhere terrorists may be.
However, I do not accept his or his president's position and I dispair that they lead us ..well, you know where.

These folks have focused on one supposed solution to terrorism. Unfortunately the wrong one. And it will hurt us. And it will attempt to create a hegemony.

What a travesty.

rw

Many others believe in the old American Republic and would like nothing better than to see the Emperor and his Unholy Empire end up in the ash heap of history.

:hi:

to schools where the kids are sitting ducks. Really, do some research and figure out when the recruiters show up and table right along side of them. Get in their faces and just make it a hobby. Do they go to high schools or colleges? Both?

They CALL kids in HS. Schools MUST give the Military the names, addresses and phone numbers of all Seniors in HS. Tables at schools? Hell, no. They are coming into their HOMES.

...in a VA Cemetery plot, dead at 19.

Fuck 'em all!

my sorrow for what you must be going through.

As a mother, I can only imagine your pain.

but please don't stop, we need to be reminded of the horror "up close and personal". I'm so very sorry for your loss. :hug:

I'm so sorry for your loss. So so so sorry.

When they first passed the law, we joked here that LNCB meant sticking them in uniforms and staffing the Army. At the time, we didn't realize it was TRUE.

Every SINGLE time I think I'm just being paranoid about these criminals, turns out I'm not.

Can't parents get restraining orders or something? Send "cease and desist" letters?

it would be interesting test-case if someone filed it.

whatEVER. If I had a kid that age, I'd throw anything and everything at this. When my brother was draft bait for El Salvador, Mom & I had a plan in place to get him out of the country.

reason.

Never found out until both my father and his identical twin brother had died - at that uncle's wake.

I was the oldest son at the time.

Never knew so many were so concerned for just me. Still amazed by it all. So very humbled. How I miss them all so very much.

persistently, according to my friend whose son and friends enlisted.

especially the lower income ones.

writing from Southern Cal, here.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/mil/draft-boards.htm

On 23 Sept 2003, the Defense Department Website called "Defend America" posted a notice for people to join local draft boards. "If a military draft becomes necessary," the notice explained, "approximately 2,000 Local and Appeal Boards throughout America would decide which young men, who submit a claim, receive deferments, postponements or exemptions from military service, based on Federal guidelines."

In early November, that notice started to receive media attention, with articles from the Associated Press, the Seattle Post-Intelligencer , the Oregonian, the Toronto Star, the BBC, and London Guardian (unsurprisingly, none of the major papers or networks in the US covered it).

In a familiar turn of events, the notice suddenly disappeared from the Website. (Thanks to LG for pointing this out.) We've mirrored the page and posted the text below.


Try writing to one of these addresses:

There are 3 regions:

Region 1: Chicago
CT, DE, DC, IL, IN, ME, MA, MD, MI, NH, NJ, NY, OH, PA, RI, VT, WI.

Selective Service System
Region 1
Building 3400, Suite 276
2834 Green Bay Road
Chicago, IL 60064-9983

Region 2: Atlanta
AL, AR, FL, GA, KY, LA, MS, NC, PR, SC, TN, TX, VI, VA, WV.

Selective Service System
Region 2
2400 Lake Park Drive
Smyrna, GA 30080-8982

Region 3: Denver
AK, AZ, CA, CO, GU, HI, IA, ID, KS, MO, MN, MP, MT, NE, ND, NM, NV, OK, OR, SD, UT, WA, WY.

Selective Service System
Region 3
Stapleton Bldg., Suite 1014
3401 Quebec Street
Denver, CO 80207-2323

know how long I'd last. I'd defer everyone with even the inine excuse for not joining our great leader and helpp spread freedom throughout the world.

But hurdle number one, is just getting accepted.

I think Bleachers7 was rejected because of his age. (He's around 27, I think he said.) I view him as a draftable age, so I assume that's why they wouldn't want him on.

The application doesn't ask for a lot of information, but who knows what investigating they do before they accept you.

factor. Plus, I was drafted (4/20/71 - you never forget) during our last glorious crusade to preserve the world for democracy and the american way.

You may NOT:

be an active or reitred member of the Armed Forces or any Reserve Component

Does that apply to you? You said you were drafted 4/20/71. I used to think that when people got out of the army, they were finished, but have recently learned that many people are subject to recall.

duty requirement as well as my 4 year reserve commitment. As far as I know I should be free and clear, but one never knows in the new chimp order.

I don't think there will be a draft despite everything written above. The Republicans know any kind of draft will be hugely unpopular throughout the country. It would all but sink their chances in 2006 and 2008. Instead, they will essentially give up in Iraq. They will declare victory and pull out significant numbers of troops, justifying the pullout on the recent elections. This will be a wildly popular move because Dems are for the pullout, independents in increasing numbers are for the pullout, and the Repubs are for victory. Since Bush is the new messiah, when he says victory has taken place then victory has taken place. Iraq will continue on its downward spiral into civil war and anarchy and the Republicans will, rather than move the goalposts once again, just switch sides of the field and say it's halftime.

Of course I could be wrong--the fact that they've prepared the contingency plans is definitely worrisome. If I had to bet, though, I'd bet on the premature pullout.

anything is possible with these bastards.

But funny thing is, from here on out, even if a proposal seems very unpopular, like the draft, it will still be passed and the even funnier thing is, the republicans will still keep power. If I were paranoid I would think that they have the election thing already rigged so it doesn't really matter what the public really wants anymore.

Surely I'm wrong, though, eh, Diebold, right? Right.

Until Sy Hersh and now Ritter started writing about Bushco's plans to invade Iran. Hersh is the only real investigative reporter left (he just won a Peabody for his work on Abu Ghraib), and a lot of his sources have been talking to him for twenty years. If he says Bush plans to attack Iran, I believe him. Ritter's no slouch, either--he's been right about Bushco every time he's spoken publicly about them. The fact that they launched a major smear campaign against him only enhances his credibility, if you ask me. What Hersh says, though, is that Bush plans to bomb nuclear and military sites in Iran--he doesn't talk about a ground-force invasion. An invasion per se would require a draft, and I think that's the neocons' last resort. Let's not forget, though, that the American people sat still for the Vietnam draft for five years--it wasn't until the draft reached into the white middle class that protests began in earnest.

Bill O'Reilly, on the other hand, still has won nothing of merit :D

A Polk it is. Still...

or is at least very much on the table. But an invasion is out of the question. A draft would not be required, as you say. One of the many problems with this is the law of unintended consequences. Once the administration attacks Iran, Iran might respond in a way (by sending troops over the border into Iraq or by shutting of the Strait of Hormuz) as to "necessitate" a broader US presence, which in turn would "necessitate" a draft. That's the scenario most likely to bring about a draft. I don't see it happening short of that, though.

For failing to foresee what's entirely predictable. Idiots all.

I agree that bombing iran would likely bring hoards of iranian troops across the border. What frightens me tho, is the likelyhood that they will be joined by Saudis and iraqis (individuals, not gov't troops) in a coordinated attack on our troops. This could result in casualties that would make Viet Nam look like a skirmish. How would we react to fifty thousand american dead at once?

Additionally, iran has SS-N-22s and 26s that could make metalic kindling of our ships in the persian gulf. I have no doubt that iran would use their anti-ship missiles if we bomb them. Tit for tat. That would also involve massive casualties.

And if they close the straights by sinking ships, we will lose the main supply line for our troops in iraq.

All in all, this is a scenario that could result in a doomsday event.

But then we are talking about the gang that can't think straight.

though I do enjoy the people who think that Iran will fold and run in the presence of our Uber Slodats and their dazzling weaponry. In my opinion Iran has NO choice but to mount a vigorous defense. They can and they will.

Jay

And the additional manpower requirements in the ME theater would put more pressure on Army recruitment and more pressure for a draft.

On the other hand, if oil went to $70 a barrel in the aftermath of a US strike against Iran, the resulting collapse of the US economy would produce a powerful incentive for unemployed 19-year-olds to join the Army (which eliminate a need for a draft).

Dammit! KKKarl thinks of everything!!!!

...all to see.

Should be an interesting next four years...or more, if Herr Busch declares himself President for Life.

The draft that is. Unfortunately it is going to take something like the draft to wake people up!!

draft will fly unless the people are frightened to death that we are about to be overrun by "terrorists". The MSM will say it's our duty to send our young men and women overseas to fight them overthere so we don't have to fight them here.

Just it IS difficult to get a passport...AFTER you get the notice that u have been drafted. Do it now...i keep repeating this..ha..hope some of you actually do get that passport now.

I got mine last year, and have another 14 years of freedom because of it.

Aside from carrying around your birth certificate in conjunction with a state issued ID card, this is the only viable means of presenting citizenship.

Everyone on this board should have a passport.

A sad side prediction.... "homosexual = traitor"... just wait....

"IF"??? Careful there, Senator. It's looking more like "when" each passing day.

Last night, I gritted my teeth and braced myself just before pushing the remote to Hardball. Matthews had their "War Council" or some such silly labelled group of retired military. Gens. Downing, McCaffrey and Meigs to 'discuss' issues.

The third question: "MATTHEWS: Well, let me start with you on the third question and the force levels we have available to us in the U.S. military right now. The force levels available in uniform right now or in training right now, do we have an adequate complement of men and women, especially men for combat, to deal with any wider war in the Middle East? Can we go to Syria? Do we have that option, for example? "

All over the board as to what to do, but one of the things suggested was to do 'surgical strikes' in Syria (Downing).
"DOWNING: Well, Chris, to topple the Bashar Assad regime I think is out of the question.

However, to conduct a military surgical operation, a strike against the base areas that they‘re using for the insurgency in Iraq is very much within our capability. And when I say a surgical operation, I‘m talking about airstrikes and I‘m also talking about putting some people on the ground to capture some of these people and to bring out documents and proof of what‘s going on.

That‘s very, very much within our capability. And, Chris, I think we are very, very fed up with the Syrians now as a result of this Hariri bombing. This is just one in a string of things that they‘ve done over the last 20, 25 years that—that shows they‘re not responding to any other pressure.

MATTHEWS: OK."

Here's the full transcript: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7017474/

...Why not?

They signed up. They knew the risks. They WANTED this war.

So according to Biden we should be "asking" young civilian draftees to "do the job"?

Why doesn't he suggest getting the fuck out of Iraq, put a stop to the imperialist invasions and thus not have to worry about a "military stretched too thin"?

Fuck all of them.

They were in a convey coming back from a church bombing and insurgents fired a few pot shots in their direction. They opened up like it was effing Armaggeddon. They were shooting wildly in every direction with every thing they had.

While no insurgents were hit, they shot a taxi cab driver stone dead.

He probably would have enjoyed "freedom" had he had the freedom to LIVE.

I'm all for supporting our troops--they didn't send themselves there, that's for sure--but who's idea is it that these guys just open up on anything moving whenever they are threatened?

Not in my name . . . I don't support that shit.

They want to self-delude themselves into thinking they're "bringing freedom" to Iraq, well that's on them.

Some observations from last nights Frontline:

Do you think in their infinite wisdom that everytime the army kills an innocent that they've created an enemy?

That dog they shot must have belonged to Al-Qaida. Ungrateful wretch, that Iraqi dog owner, throwing his hands up in the air as if to say - what the fuck are you doing? Doesn't he realize that electricity has been restored to 4 hours of power a day?

And how about that Lt. Col. telling the market keepers that the army is there to rebuild the country first and to fight the bad guys if they have to. Interesting. The US Army as Peace Corp volunteers not trained killers.

How about the practice of firing warning shots while traveling on the highways as a signal for Iraqi drivers to get out their way? Isn't that a great way to make friends?

How about that jackass Sgt. commenting on "the protesters" in Houston? "If they had the gumption to protest why don't they have the gumption to join the army and join us over here"...Talk about totally clueless. You think it ever crossed his pea brain that some of the protesters could be ex-military? I am.

But what can you expect from a group of young people who are trained to follow orders and not question why?

we drug our soldiers on a regular basis. That's why you see them acting crazy.

:thumbsup:

They lost most of their local subscribers but then ended up tripling (or more) their worldwide circulation!!

It's a great little paper (and uniquely worldly now), I recommend it to anyone!

:bounce:

I thought it was very telling when their Editorial staff endorsed Kerry...now this....

Yeah, I've been expecting a draft for our young people...with the taste for War that this administration has, its inevitable....

of any movement. If you are accepted, keep us abreast of anything you hear.

too.

(Hmmm ... does that make it a bit too obvious that I'm not convinced there's going to be a draft?)

Looks like the SS people are quietly giving churches a forewarning..like this SS lady was really "just in the neigborhood"...found this article last month.


http://www.beliefnet.com/story/158/story_15893_1.html


Brethren Agree to Revive 'Alternative Service' Draft Programs

Leaders of the Church of the Brethren say they will follow through on a request from the Selective Service to have "alternative service" programs in place for conscientious objectors if a draft is reinstated.

As one of the historic "peace churches" that shun military service, Brethren officials were "cautious" after an unannounced visit by a draft official to a church center in Maryland last October. Officials were worried that the visit signaled that a draft may be at hand.

In follow-up meetings, draft officials urged the church to dust off long-standing "alternative service" programs that allow conscientious objectors to serve in two-year domestic service projects in lieu of military service.

In a meeting Dec. 10, the church's council voted to "maximize our efforts" on alternative service, as well as help "guide our youth in their choice of nonviolent service." Selective Service officials have insisted there are no plans to reinstate the draft, and said Alternative Service Director Cassandra Costley stopped by the Brethren Service Center simply because she was in the area.

future even more hopeless for the lower classes. Hey, they convinced the slaves to fight for them in the Civil War, what's the difference? I have yet to figure out how these a**holes sleep at night...

http://www4.sss.gov/localboardmembers/bminquiry.asp

Local Board members are volunteers appointed by the President. They play an important community role closely connected with our nation's defense. If a military draft becomes necessary, approximately 2,000 Local Boards throughout America would decide which young men in each community receive deferments, postponements, or exemptions from military service based on federal guidelines.

This form is for people interested in becoming a Local Board Member with Selective Service. To register with Selective Service, you should go to the on-line registration page.

If you are interested in receiving information on becoming a Board Member for the Selective Service System (SSS), please complete this form. When you submit the following information to the Selective Service System, you will receive an application for board membership, a business reply envelope, and a Board Member Information Booklet that gives details on Board Member responsibilities. After you have submitted your application, a Selective Service employee will contact you to schedule a personal interview.

Qualifications for becoming a Local Board Member:

Must be 18 years old or older
Must be a citizen of the United States
Men must have registered with the Selective Service,
except those born from March 29, 1957 through December 31, 1959.
Must not be an employee of any law enforcement organization
Must not be an active or retired member of the Armed Forces
Must not have been convicted of any criminal offense.

:bounce: Bring 'em on!! :bounce:


This link made it sooooo easy!! Just type in your name, etc., and click "submit". It says they'll contact me soon. :hi:

:kick::kick::kick:

Made for a very interesting read. A buddy of mine has this neat plaque hanging on his den wall - I always thought it was interesting that he'd signed up, and this was a few years ago.
I read the requrements for registration too.
I don't recall remembering when the registration for the draft was a re-instated, would you?

on edit - editting!

Thanks for the link. Will be interesting to see those young faces that favored Bush in line trying to avoid the draft. Ain't happening if I get the chance to serve.

but I do expect to see more pressure put on kids in impoverished parts of the country where unemployment is highest.

Then when they run out of poor kids they will probably institute a draft.

Ugh.

vomit from a keyboard? Thanks in advance.

Many people don't know, don't care, or want to "bring it on."

IMHO

Then * voters in 2000, then Registered Republicans.

Why draft the opposition when you can draft those who think * is doing a great job?:grr:

nt

it was maybe 6 months ago...

I remember reading something about it.

Anyone with a better memory than me?

Actually, PM Paul Martin came out and said anybody who opposed the war will be acceted. I think.

I doubt that the Bush administration will be quite so eager to commit political suicide, but maybe they are just that insane. I hope so.

and my stupid brother voted for bush**

RL

if Bush calls for a draft. Get all those tapes where he said there wouldn't be one and splice them together, for instance.

call recruiters, ask them to join things. see how annoyed THEY get...

hehehe

and then endorsed Kerry in 2004!

I think the ONLY thing that will wake up the sleeping masses is a draft.

Not that I want one, but that would definitely get the bushbots' attention.

I haven't been reading the news, even here, lately (schedule is really heating up on me) and as I was eating breakfast this morning, looking out my dining room window, it struck me how easy it would be to just pretend none of this (the war) is even going on.

I'm sure watching FUX news makes it even easier to be in denial, but I don't care to take my experiment that far, thankyouverymuch.

Biden needs to shut up!!!

force the Republicans to say, "There will be no draft?" To show Democrats are "strong on defense?"

I get the feeling it's a big game of chicken played to make the country wake up to what's going on here. We can only hope the people awake and the Republicans blink.

my kid's going to get drafted in a stupid war we don't support. Fuck them.

It's officially on it's way, folks.

The New World Order courtesy of George Monkeyboy Bush.

According to Sen. Joseph Biden, (D-Del.) “Our ability to have any flexibility with ground forces anywhere else is diminished. If we had to move into Iran, Syria, North Korea, or anywhere else, we’d be in real difficulty.”

Why is a Dem saying this? It almost sounds like he wants a draft... I hope that statement was taken out of context and it's actually a response against keeping troops in the middle east.

...for this travesty. My step-son, born spring of '85 San Salvador. Adopted into U.S. as an infant, from the orphanage where he was left in San Salvador. But between legal Salvadoran adoption and legal U.S. adoption, he was "disappeared" for most of his first year of life. Adopting parents desperate to find him were ignored at every turn, until the late Sen. Moynihan listened & intervened. There emerged some very strange circumstances involving the School of the Americas at Ft. Benning, GA: under the aegis of that institution this infant was, apparently, both "disappeared" and later, "located" in California (with a couple to whom he had been "given") and ultimately returned -- NOT to his American adoptive parents -- but to the same San Salvadoran orphanage from which he had been kidnapped as a healthy infant; and to which he was "re-located", then held there for several months while all the necessary trails & tails were covered, and the red tape tied itself into bizarre legal knots & iron bows; and during which time he was almost starved to death.

It was in this condition of near-starvation that he was released, at last, into the custody of his adoptive mother, at the age of 16 months, and brought back into the U.S.

Beautiful boy, so-much-beloved and cherished by all of us who have known him throughout his almost-20-years of life, a life somehow redeemed from annihilation, then from oblivion; and all the chaos "serving" U.S. governmental policies of that time. Yet he is labeled as "learning-disabled" in the public school system and now is having a difficult time making some functional transition into college or vocational training.

He can breathe, though. Breathing, he plays guitar & sings, draws & designs & paints magnificently. He can analyze & appreciate literature and cinema with an intuitive and keen intelligence that challenges & delights several crusty old thinkers who love him. He professes the committed liberal Christianity of his parents' tradition & observance, and has filed already for CO status, in utter good faith and with an apparently untroubled mind.

But we sit here knowing what we know, remembering 20 years ago; and 30 and 40 years ago; unable either to let go our bitterness at the clearly unanswered crimes committed against his young life at its beginning, or clearly to articulate our thousand unanswered questions about just how he was "disappeared" - and damaged, in ways neither he nor we will ever be able to understand deeply enough.

By what malevolent geo/socio-political calculus is such a life as his to be factored into this draft, when it comes.

I fold his shirts and boxer shorts, listen to his jokes and his girlfriend's voice on the phone; his practiced chord-changes, and his still-deepening voice singing Dylan and Waits and Led Zep and his own blues from the room upstairs; and I feel I cannot breathe any more.

I remember his father working so patiently to help him understand fractions; and racism; and the rudiments of his own origins.

He shines so. Shining Boy, I named him years ago.

How do we now name and hold accountable to Life what so despises natural radiance, youth, unembittered beautiful minds forged of authentic sheer survival beyond all the ruthless stratagems of these soul-less tinkers of continental chessboards, who will ravage all available light to capture its next phalanx of pawns for the Crowned Heads of Ideology.

Forced full stop, since this is my first post, though I'm a long-time voiceless visitor in DU. Thanks to everybody who posts, and anybody who reads this, for our boy, and for all the other young ones who are just themselves, shining, filled with their gifts and their innocence.



Peace *
Ana

so often we get caught up in the large issues that we forget to pay attention to individuals.

Thank You.

that was the option given to my ex-fiance during vietnam. he'd broken some minor law and the judge gave him that option. he turned out to be a good little helicopter pilot, served two tours and ' never saw any killing'.

ps. shut up, Bidet!!


edited to add p.s.

They may as well get the show on the road.

shit. let the stupid ass motherfuckers that got us in this mess be the ones that have to break the news to the stupid ass motherfuckers that put this dumb ass bastard in office.

biden with his stupid ass needs to shut the fuck up, unless he's going to switch parties. I can see it now, it wasn't bush, it was the democrats that wanted pushed for the draft. sorry for the cursing, but I get so tired of dumb democratics saying stupid stuff, when saying nothing would do just fine.

DAMN......

are ready to go "a fightin'" in Iraq!

:eyes:

and their cristo-fascist children signing up?

in their SUV's with W in '04 and Support Our Troops stickers and sit on their gluttonous asses and watch. They need to be the first to go.:grr:

I mean, you know, they had no problems doing it in Vietnam and Korea, but, these times are different.

And besides, it would be political suicide if they brought the draft back.

-Signed mindless droid who always places faith in the checks and
balances of government much like the cowards of Germany during
the rise of Hitler.

Sorry for shouting....

I thought college deferments would sky rocket, but I see the deferment is now only for one semester. dayum

intelligence would be, also...but that didn't stop chimpass, did it?

How long did it take for Vietnam to start rolling?

Then they won't want you to serve in the military.

printed out the Enlistment forms another kind DU'er posted.

wrote " Patriots for BUSH " on the top, and folded them in half w/ only the "Patriots" part showing.

left them in different places as I went thru my local mall (restroom stalls) ( benches ) all sneaky like.. well, the bushies need to have SOMEthing to read instead of just sitting, right?

i'm going to KEEP doing this too.