Georgia abortion bill (24 hour wait) goes to governor for signature

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/legis05/0305/05abort.html

"It deletes a provision in Georgia law that allows someone other than a parent or legal guardian -- such as a grandparent or other relative caring for the child -- to be the one notified when a minor seeks an abortion...

The bill also would require physicians to offer women seeking an abortion information on the medical risks associated with abortion, the probable gestational age of the fetus, fetal pain, and alternatives to abortion, including adoption.

Republicans blocked attempts to amend the bill to exempt the information requirements for women who become pregnant as the result of rape or incest."

I don't really have a problem with the 24-hour waiting period, but this is a bill with some pretty offensive requirements thrown in. Sometimes living in Georgia is pretty embarrassing.

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :mad: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :nuke: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :scared: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :mad: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :nuke: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :scared:

I hate that these mostly white, male, Xian legislators (who say they believe in less government) are legislating what happens in my body.

I am fucking angry, goddamit. They are no better than the Taliban or Iranian Mullahs. They are men - they can't ever get pregnant.

I hate them, I hate them, I hate them. :mad: :cry: :mad: :cry:
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

What if I were to propose that all of these assholes had to wait 24 hours before any emergency surgery or maybe that all deadbeat dads be chemically castrated? Argghhh! :mad: :cry: :mad: :cry:
:mad: :cry: :mad: :cry: :mad: :cry: :mad: :cry:

the 24 hour waiting period is clearly an effort to get some women to change their mind about an abortion, but it still doesn't really bother me. Most people go to a doctor, get info, then wait before they have the surgery. This isn't any different in that respect. If a woman needs an emergency abortion I feel pretty confident the doctor will perform it.

The thing I don't like about this bill is the fact that they eliminated the opportunity for a guardian or grandparent to approve of the abortion. A girl shouldn't have to ask her father who raped her to approve her abortion. They also should have left in the exemption for victims of rape or incest. This is really bad legislation from that aspect.

Very few women are close to a clinic and thus must drive to another city. They must take 1-2 days off work to have the procedure and recover. If you've already driven for 6 to 8 hours, you must turn around and go back home then come back again. You may be poor. You have no money for a cheap hotel even. You may have children at home. Who will look after them while you're gone? You may have little or no leave time. Gas is expensive. There's no public transportation except in a few cities in the state. You may be fired from your job for missing work/. You may miss class, miss a test and have to drop out of the class.

If you are a man you have absolutely no right to make decisions about my body. I'm the only one.

and my response is still the same--if there is a baby inside you then maybe its no longer just your choice. Regardless of what some people on this board think, abortion can be limited, even under the Court's decision in Roe. 24 hour waiting periods, no 3rd trimester abortions, parental notification laws, etc. are all legal limitations on abortion. Abortion can be limited, just like there are limits on freedom of speech.

Now, I understand you disagree, and are probably pissed off and want to call me bad names, but just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I'm a (1) Republican or (2) inherently evil. I am a male though.

I'm pretty clear about where I stand on abortion. While it shouldn't be made illegal, I don't have a problem with efforts to limit the number of abortions that are performed.

NOT limiting access to abortion. It is a proven fact that countries with good sex education, universal health care and access to birth control have very low teen pregnancy and abortion rates.

The number of US abortions has risen since * has been in office.

His efforts to cut funding for family planning agencies are killing the poor-middle class and definitely leading to more abortions. The sex education they are teaching in schools is horrid--my son was told condoms do NOT protect against STDs--they are teaching the abstinence only crap

So, even though some guy is seeking to have his possibilities of impregnating a women ended, he needs to stop and think that without his sperm being available, and he is choosing to kill the other half of a potential viable fetus.

Stay outta my body. I own it and it's off limits to others to make choices about it unless I am ever in a position where I can no longer make rational decisions.

On edit:
Let's also seek legislation and make it law that men under the age of 40 cannot have a vasectomy unless they are gay. Let's also make it punishable by law that should a young gay male under the age of 18 seek a vasectomy without parental consent, that the parent(s)/guardian(s) can be fined, jailed, or both.
And just as obsequious, let's make it law that anyone out in the rain without a raincaot will be arrested. It's all just as ludicrous as is trying to control a woman's choice. It's a civil rights' issue, and ONLY a moral issue for the woman alone and no one else.

and I did not assume that you are either evil or a Republican. I do however totally disagree with your opinion on this matter.

Men should have no say in the matter.
Men should concentrate on safe sex. Men should insist on using condoms AND that their partner also use birth control as well.

This would prevent pregnancy and STDs. Still, birth control fails sometimes. I have many friends who've become pregnant while using birth control.

and that everyone should work to prevent unwanted pregnancies. This is the best way to limit the number of abortions. I'm also realistic enough to know that women are going to have abortions, for all sorts of different reasons, and that outlawing abortion while it would probably lower the number of abortions performed would increase the number of unsafe abortions and deaths from abortions. I do not advocate outlawing abortions.

Above you said you have no problem with limits on abortion, yet here you talk about trying to prevent injury and death to women by supporting keeping it legal. You do realize the problem I hope? What do you think underage girls who think their parents "won't understand" and then do it themselves because the law says the have to notify them about wanting an abortion? Remember, not everyone's parents are angels, plus most teenagers rarely see eye to eye with their parents anyways, also, notification, in many of these cases of less than perfect parents, might as well mean permission as well. What's to stop the parents from kicking them out of the house afterwards, especially if they are radical pro-lifers?

Same for 24 hour wait periods, many of them will have to drive many miles, for many hours, to get to the closest clinic. Most are poor, and cannot afford to stay in a motel, much less a hotel. Many also cannot afford to take any extra time off work, they will try to schedule it around their two days off, if they are lucky. One day for the procedure, the next for recovery, what are they supposed to say to the boss when they ask for a third day off? What may seem like an inconvienience to a middle class women can mean the difference between keeping a job and losing you livelyhood to a poor woman. What do you think many of these women will do?

This is where you contradict yourself, by supporting such laws as this, you increase the amount of unsave abortions and deaths, plain and simple. What is the justification for putting legal roadblocks between a woman and her doctor for a perfectly valid and legal medical procedure?

Parental notification laws are perfectly valid. Most teenagers, who society doesn't think are old enough to drink alcohol or vote, are CLEARLY not old enough to make a rational decision about something as complicated as abortion. I'm pretty much convinced that they are a great idea.

You may have a point about 24-hour waiting laws. If I saw some data indicating they increased back-alley abortions I would be less inclined to support such laws. I haven't seen any such data.

On the 24 hour delay, facts from Mississippi:

Women's Health at Risk

In August 1992, Mississippi became the first state to enforce a mandatory delay and biased information requirement that forces a woman to travel twice to a health care provider - once for the mandated information and a second time for the abortion. Data compiled by the Alan Guttmacher Institute reveals that that the law has forced some women to delay or even forego the abortion procedure. The number of Mississippi women obtaining abortions was thirteen percent lower than expected during the five months following implementation of the law. The mandatory delay also resulted in an eighteen percent increase in the proportion of abortions performed in the second trimester of pregnancy.

While abortion is one of the safest medical procedures performed today, risks of complications increase as the weeks progress. The Alan Guttmacher Institute has found that cost, location and availability of services are cited by nearly one-half of women having abortions beyond fifteen weeks gestation. Laws mandating delays can increase cost and force women to travel a great distance twice, while forcing physicians to provide the counseling in lieu of other health workers further strains the availability of services.

http://www.crlp.org/pub_fac_manddelay2.html

Analysis about Parental Notification laws:

http://www.crlp.org/pub_fac_mandconsent.html

Some facts about Parental Notification laws:



Link: http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_pare.htm

So, read up and get educated, do you really think these laws help young women, or are they just there to control them?

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/3924005/detail.html
Two teens may face charges after they allegedly used a baseball bat in an attempt to abort a fetus, according to Local 4 reports.

Police said a 16-year-old girl became pregnant and had a miscarriage in October at her home in the northern Macomb County town of Armada.

After an investigation, Michigan State Police determined that prior to the miscarriage, the girl and a 16-year-old boy -- the father of the unborn child -- may have attempted to abort the fetus.
<snip>
Smith said the male youth would hit the pregnant teen in the abdomen with a decorative-type wooden baseball bat every other day for three weeks.

There's no indication parental notification laws had anything to do with that. If kids would act that way because the girl is pregnant they NEED an adult helping with their decisions. Those two obviously weren't capable of making an informed abortion decision.

...than she was of being beaten with a baseball bat.

If kids would act that way because the girl is pregnant they NEED an adult helping with their decisions.

Would they get help from their parents or religion?

They are acting that way because they are not ready to be parents
at the age of 16 and they know it. Surely neither you nor even
their parents should second-guess that and force her to carry to term.

All that stuff about people's dad's raping them, they don't exist. They never get knocked up either. Parents are always good and wise and they always know what is best for their children. ALWAYS. In every instance. And if it were-- perchance-- to happen that some poor young gal was knocked up by her dad.. well...fuck her. She is statistically meaningless. Laws are NOT set up to protect a few raped teenagers with violent parents. Laws are set up to make us all feel good about ourselves. And nothing will make us feel better than at the end of the day believing that we protected widdle bitty fetuses.

I think it's good that you're correcting us women on this issue. We are bound to be selfish when it comes to controlling our own bodies. We DEFINITELY need pro-life men to remind us that our bodies belong to God and that we should be REASONABLE.

Parents know best. Especially dads. Hey, dad, can I have 20 bucks now that your lecture on abortion is over?

If you would read earlier posts you would see that I don't support the notification laws in the event of rape or incest.

I doubt very seriously if you have any idea what you are talking about. You can spout off all you want about "womens rights" but you don't offer any solution except butt out. Is there any restriction on abortion you would find acceptable? If you seriously think pregnant 13 and 14 year olds are capable of making a reasoned decision about abortion then I am wasting my time discussing the issue with you.

Nobody is trying to tell you what to do with your body. You may think that its ok for a young girl to get pregnant and then have an abortion but many people do not. A minor is still just that--a minor. Society treats them differently because they are different. The Supreme Court just outlawed execution of minors because they aren't always responsible for their acts.

Now if you want to go out and get pregnant and have an abortion knock yourself out. The fact that you support abortion doesn't make it mean families have no say over their children. Maybe the young girl will get support from her family (wow, imagine that!) and decide to have the child.

By the way, you insist its a "fetus." Have you ever met a woman who said "feel this in my belly, the fetus is moving?" I'm pretty sure every one calls it a baby.

I hope you're a guy! Because when you're a guy, that's when you're opinion on this issue REALLY counts.

a baby has legal personhood, a Fetus does not or should not or hasn't until recent Laci-and-Connor type attempts to change that.

You may not be a Republican, but twisting the legal factors in an argument that pivots on emotional appeal and your own subjective opinion on the subject is exactly the same tactic as the one used by christian fundamentalists.

"maybe its no longer just your choice."

sorry, no maybe about it. Either it is, or it isn't. If it is, the COMPUSLORY legislated waiting period is an insult to women and yet another attempt to curtail their reproductive rights.

If it isn't, well, you should just "come out" as a pro-lifer then.

some (a lot) of people do think of a fetus as a baby, and many states are giving a fetus legal rights. This was going on long before the Peterson thing. I'm not twisting the legal argument. Its an unsettled area or people wouldn't feel so strongly about it. Even Roe v. Wade recognized that, at some point, a fetus becomes a legal being, born or unborn.

Your argument doesn't really work for abortion. Is a fetus NEVER a person with rights, is it sometimes one with rights, or what? If its NEVER a person with rights then why is it legal to ban 3rd trimester abortions? I'm not twisting words for any particular reason, I was simply talking in a conversational manner. Really though, at SOME point a fetus becomes a baby. Regardless of what people think about abortion, most Americans will agree that it should be illegal to kill an unborn 8 month old fetus.

and don't p*ssy about.

<i>some (a lot) of people do think of a fetus as a baby, and many states are giving a fetus legal rights.</i>

are YOU one of these people? Because if you are, then killing an itsy-bitsy baby should be ILLEGAL at any point during the pregnancy. So, is it a fetus or a baby? It's not "complicated," you can't have both.

Yeah, states are giving a fetus legal rights, which is moral legistlature which I do not agree with and do not accept.

Unlike Howard Dean I am not interested in coalition-building with the likes of you.

<i>Regardless of what people think about abortion, most Americans will agree that it should be illegal to kill an unborn 8 month old fetus.</i>

That is based on "viability" (as Roe v Wade was originally written). This reminds me of questionnaires my old academic advisor, who was studying guilt, shame, disgust and taboos, would administer that were designed to root out how arbitrary and QUANTITATIVE people's moral positions often were. The late-term abortions are a red herring, as the percentage of them are miniscule and they are usually done if the mother's life or health are in danger, yet they are used by the right as the strawman/bogeyman of abortions.

I have a clearly articulated stance on it: abortion should not be regulated or legislated except to ensure access to it. The third-trimester abortions are self-regulating events that occur with overdetermined extremely low frequency when circumstances demand it.

You, however, sound like a closet pro-lifer, murking about in vague terms. "some people" "maybe it's not just her choice."

No, not maybe. There is no maybe about it. If "maybe" it's not her choice, then "maybe" you are a pro-lifer.

Just because you support no limits on abortion doesn't make it right. Abortion will always be restricted in some way.

If you seriously think it is acceptable for women to abort an 8 month old baby, except in cases of danger to the mother, then you need to keep that to yourself. A large majority of people would find that idea terribly offensive. Additionally, I imagine the pro-choice people would want you to stay away. That type of extremist argument is very damaging to people you are trying to keep abortion legal.

nuff said

i'm prochoice. i don't like the idea of an abortion, i think that both people who caused the pregnancy should take responsibility for it and accept the consequences, but i wouldn't condemn someone for deciding to end the pregnancy. it's not a moral issue, but i'd say ethical? or just responsibility.

i know just bc i'm a man i'll be told that i don't understand, but i think i have a fair command of actions and consequences.

It's a health decision. Pregnancy can be fatal and does take a toll on a woman's health. We have not mandated that everyone donate blood or organs. These things also save lives but you are not forced once a month or even once a lifetime to donate blood and that carries less of a health risk than pregnancy.

I find the limits to be insulting to women. "Golly, I think I'll have an abortion today. Oh, I have to wait 24 hours, Gee, I guess I'll just stay pregnant then." The implication that the woman hasn't thought it over is absurd.

Blah blah blah blah! Oh, did you say something? If I get raped and can't afford a motel for an abortion, I'll be sure to send you the bill. I don't care what political label you throw on yourself. You are what you are. :) Have a great day!

You don't think that the woman has already decided by the time she goes to the clinic? You think she's going to change her mind because of the waiting period?

No. We have this law in Mississippi. Women don't change their mind. They end up sleeping in their cars in the clinic parking lot so that they can have the procedure done the next day.

It is nothing more than an obstacle intended to inconvenience the woman out of having the abortion.

They won't be happy until we're all barefoot and pregnant at home with the 8 other kids.

I wonder if they're going to outlaw wire coathangers when they completely take away abortion as an option for women?

I wonder how many deadbeat dad republicans would be affected?
Chemical castration would really reduce pregnancy and STDs. It would be a two-for-one deal.

If it weren't so damned scary that they would go to those lengths to make that happen, I'd laugh. Soon we will be the property of our fathers, husbands & brothers.

that limit woman buying any type of wire, tools, and more unless she can prove that she is not pregnant by providing a physician's note that is limited to only a 3-day use.

How about a 24 hour waiting period before getting a vasectomy?

Just a thought.

B.

Stupid white xtians everywhere...Im happy I live in the jewish part of town

It's saying "we don't think you've thought about this enough - think about it some more". The very idea is insulting. I'm torn on parental notification - if they aren't telling their parents, there is sometimes a very good reason for that. No problem with giving alterntives but the fetal pain info is just to further hurt the woman.

church down the street.

They are complete fools and idiots if they do not think that every woman who has an abortion has not thought long and hard about her decision. Women know their minds and their bodies. Women are smart and will come to the right decision. That may be to have an abortion or to give birth and give up the baby or keep the baby.

the woman has not already totally thought about all of her options before making the decision in the first place -- I mean, do they really think a woman finds out she is pregnant & instantly flies out the door in a mad rush to have an abortion?? Not to mention however long the wait is between making the appointment & the actual day of the appointment...

:scared:

They have a 24 hr waiting period and only one clinic in the state will perform abortions. So the poor women that live in the delta have to drive all day to get to the clinic and often sleep in their car because of the wait period. Read this article from The Nation http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050207&s=lerner this is the kind of crap that is happening in the south. Slowly but surely they are chipping away at our reproductive rights.

a bunch of states have 24 hour waiting periods.

how bad Mississippi has gotten. It's one of the poorest states in the country, it's pre-natal care is shit and it is damn near impossible to get an abortion in that state. I realize it is not just in the south but it's ill effects are felt the most in places like the deep south

That sounds just as brilliant. :dunce:

Whipped, I tell you!

maybe the "joke-i-ness" of it wasn't clear enough. Everyone, a deep breath.

when someone says "where's the law requiring men to wait 24 hours before having sex." That's clearly a joke. Or so unreasonable as to be considered a joke.

stupid law. relax..

And I'm a woman

The hubris is maddening. I am glad you are so jocky and light hearted about putting women in their place. And I wish you from all my heart to not get any for long enough time to get the "jockiness' out of you.

except it's more like 2 years, rather than 24 hours.

I had to sign my permission for husband's vasectomy. Yes, there was a 24 hour waiting period too. lol

i haven't had one done yet, but it's a serious thought. i'm not too eager to have kids of my own, and if i really want to, there are plenty of kids that need adoptions.

Doctors are free to perform a vasectomy immediately, if they choose to. Most require 24 hours and a wife's permission as a way to avoid potential litigation--not to satisfy criminal law. Men would never legislate control of their own bodies.

Don't take that away, Sonny!

If only we could officially marry our sisters. Darn that "don't ask, don't tell" rule!

Only a few areas offer abortion services & Texas is a big state. This causes a big increase in the money & time a woman must expend. What if she has a job? What if she's taking care of the kids she already has--or other family members?

However, sir, I can see why you do not regard this as a problem.

Like I said above, women end up sleeping in their cars, or having to wait until they can save the money for a hotel room. Mississippi only has one clinic. Some women have to drive six hours to get to it.

This law is nothing more than an attempt to force inconvenience on the woman so that she will back out.

the 24 hr. waiting period handing out "Uncle Sam Wants You" leaflets and lecturing about the importance of future soldiers for America?

Gotta protect that chattel!!!

she's mastered being a Dem while acting like a Repub.

A good place to keep up w/ her shenanigans re: sticking Diebold in every single GA county:there's stuff cooking in GA;

CIRCULATE WIDELY:


JOIN THIS ORGANIZATION WHICH IS KEEPING UP WITH GA VOTING PROBLEMS AND COX'S REFUSAL TO ADDRESS THE DIFFICULTIES


http://www.countthevote.org/

I'm in VA and our leg has a bill that requires mandatory reporting of all miscarriages w/in 12 hours of the event,including a medical report on fetus size, gender, etc. signed by a MD or mortician. What a bunch of lunatics!!!!!! Fortunately, we have a great DEM Governor (just voted best governed state in the USofA). But the leg, first Republican version in 100 years, is Republican dominated. Oh, get this, we had a bill introduced to find people $50 for wearing thongs and excessively baggy pants ($100 if you have both). That one got pulled. I'm glad you posted this, since even though we're screwed up in the legislative arena (temporarily), I can incorrectly gloat that GA is worse (haha). Not really and it's a great state, especially Hotlanta. Welcome!!!

(Someone pointed out that if two police officers were together and one gave a 17 year old female a ticket for a thong, the other would have to report that officer to Child Protection Services.)

I think we all agree that any reasonable person would say that fetuses must be preserved at all cost.

So abortion must be outlawed. I mean, we're talking about human life here. And, let's face it, pre-marital sex is inevitable. Even good women can get raped into a pregnancy.

I think men should do their part to stop abortion forever. All men must go through temporary reversable chemical castration until marriage. There will be no 'accidental pregnancy' and no rape.

Let's do a little quid-pro-quo. What are you willing to give up for the babies? I'll give up Roe-v-Wade if you're all castrated to ensure that I'll never have a baby to abort.

I truly believe this sounds reasonable. How about it, pro-life fellas? How 'bout we give it a go!

I mean we all want to save the fetuses, right? And let's face it, this whole rape thing is the wedge issue. Women just CANNOT control their fate as impregnable people since men have the power to rape. So, I say, that instead of regulating WOMEN'S bodies, it would be far more affective to regulate the bodies of men.

If you are truly a good guy, then there should be no reason for the government to reject your petition to have your temporary castration reversed. If you want to get married, or if you can prove that you are a gay male, your temporary castration should be reversed. Any married man who is found guilty of rape will be permanently castrated.

I mean, we could WIPE OUT both RAPE and ABORTION in our lifetime with my kind of thinking.

Come on, I need some righteous guys to get behind me on this one. Are you willing? Come on!

I just want freedom to be on the march. End abortion? End rape? Better world? Just a lil' temporary castration? Not too much to ask, right?

I'm thinking maybe you have some "Male" issues. In post # 48 You stated

"So, even though some guy is seeking to have his possibilities of impregnating a women ended, he needs to stop and think that without his sperm being available, and he is choosing to kill the other half of a potential viable fetus."

So I'm guessing by this you are equating a sperm cell to be equal to a fetus? Or at least equal to the egg, which makes this a 50/50 issue. If this is the case your "My body, stay outta my business,blah,blah,blah" argument is again laughable. I guess you would be willing to say, since you feel that a sperm cell is equal to a fetus (or egg) that the male has just as much right..or at least a 50% right to make the final decision on the abortion?

The "my body" argument can only go so far. For example, It's my body, but I can't just lop off my left arm because I don't want it or can't afford to clothe/feed/whatever. It's my body, yet I can't legally smoke crack/pot/etc. It's my body, Yet I cannot legally sell my body for profit, or any organs for profit for that matter. I know that these things are not comparable to Abortion per se, Yet in a way they are comparable to the "My body" argument. It sounds to me by the way you are stating your argument that we should have 24 hour drive through abortion clinics with "no questions asked" policies. An abortion is a medical decision as well as a life decision in my opinion. By "Life" I mean the woman that is having the procedure done, not the life of the fetus. I still cannot understand why when making such an important decision people like yourself get angry when other people suggest that there should be some advice/options submitted before going through with the procedure. You get options & advice with any other surgery that you endure (unless it is life threatening of course) & Adolescent patients must have some sort of parental consent before undergoing any other type of medical procedure.

I don't think that abortion should be illegal. However, I also don't think there is anything wrong with being informed, and therefore making an informed sound decision. I have to agree with 'Southern Demm 2005' on his/her opinion regarding parental notification, or at least some sort of adult interaction. What is so wrong with making sure that a young woman knows all of her choices and outlets, along with all of the risks involved? I know of some teenage girls at the age of 15 that want to have breast implants. Although it is their body, I do not think that it would be a smart/safe/sound decision for them to do so. Would you also agree with allowing teenage girls/boys the right to undergo plastic surgery without any sort of notification? What if the teenager was having serious self confidence issues and did not want to share that with an adult/parent? Is it his/her right to do so?

I know that anything that I say is obsolete because I'm a "Man" and therefore I have no right/say/idea/ yadda, yadda... However, If you're going to state that every man should be castrated...then I feel I have a right to state my opinion in this matter.

One last thing...I will agree with your "Male castration" idea if you agree that any woman that has had or will have 3 abortions that were not medically necessary must have a hysterectomy on the spot during the third abortion procedure. Fair is fair...

You have raised the ante and I will not fold!

I will agree that any women who has had three abortions that are not medically necessary should be sterilized on the spot if all males are temporarily castrated until marriage and permanently castrated if they rape!

WOW. I think we just made a deal. Awesome.

I want this idea spread far and wide. Won't some REAL MEN step up to the plate and offer up their balls for Jesus?

/

we are actually making some progress on the pro-life/pro-choice divide. This is fantastic.

BTW...Apologies for misquoting. I quoted you as the poster for #48 when it was actually 'Whoa_Nelly'. My apologies for the misquote. However, everything else still applies :-)

Let's get started on this wonderful compromise.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

if you're under sixty you need your wifes consent, and you need to be told all of the negative side effects (such as prolonged engorgement for four or more hours requires a trip to the emergency room--for possible amputation--i guess)

Don't they have better things to do.

If they want to reduce the number of abortions why don't they advocate for better birth control? More birth control pills and more condoms = less abortions. Win-win for the Repubs.