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Boomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:08 PM
Original message
US troops fire at freed hostage
Italian reporter Giuliana Sgrena has been taken to a hospital in Baghdad with gunshot wounds shortly after being freed from her kidnappers in Iraq.

Ms Sgrena was being driven to Baghdad airport when a US patrol fired at the car, injuring the journalist in the shoulder and killing an officer.

The agent, Nicola Calipari, had taken part in the operation to free her.

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi at a news conference that the agent had been killed by US fire.

<snip>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4320111.stm
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Southsideirish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. In-friggin-credible!
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scarletlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
46. I find it hard to believe this was mistake.
So many journalists killed by 'coalition' forces and all were 'accidents'
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ixat Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #46
85. Bah, screwups happen, and innocent people get killed.
Why do you think war sucks?
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katty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #46
89. Iraq is a shooting gallery...
the Pentagon has made it abundantly clear they don't want any free lance reporters messing around in their territory and reporting the FACTS. their directive is to kill any factual reporting and if, necessary, they will will the messenger.
american 'exceptionalism' has always been hard for the rest of the world to swallow and now we are a pariah.
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #46
128. It was
and they apologized. It's a tragic case of the communication chaos that exist in an occupied country.
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hector459 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
102. Headline should read "US troops kill Iralian Secret Service agent"
this is so disgusting! We kill foreign journalists, Canadians, innocent Iraqi civilians and Afghani civilians and now this. When will the world hold us accountable or at least call for UN sanctions against the US? Bush and Rummy should be tried for war crimes. Italians should be taking to the streets and demanding the some kind of retribution.
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Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. We're in a nightmare, we truly are.
:(
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vi5 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Note that the CNN coverage says "coalition forces"...
..interesting, in'it?
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's not renamed Corporate News Network for nothing. Pure spewage. nt
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. wow....what are the odds....
that when there are about 120,000+ US foces in the region her car would be shot at by one of the units from the hundred or so troops from the other members of the coalition.....

:crazy:
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moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Odds are pretty high
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 04:38 PM by marekjed
Considering soldiers at checkpoints are always on high alert and will shot at anything, especially if it moves fast - as the car did, BBC says. That's not to say they shoot indiscriminately, but it may be pretty darn close.
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. huh?
Who said anything about the odds on soliders firing at checkpoints?
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Stew225 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #24
56. Nice comeback, fryguy. You made me
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 05:56 PM by Stew225
lol since I was wondering the same thing.
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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
70. Read the post you're replying to, your reply is a "non sequitur"
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
145. If the American story is true,
Edited on Sat Mar-05-05 12:49 PM by tblue37
which I doubt. All the time we hear that these cars race at top speed toward American checkpoints and convoys, filled with armed American soldiers frantically waving, giving hand signals to stop, firing warning shots. And still the insane drivers race forward.

What are the odds, honestly? Everyone in Iraq knows Americans will light up a car moving rapidly toward a convoy or checkpoint. So isn't it a bit hard to believe that so many innocent people keep doing it?

Whenever something like this happens, military spokesmen trot out this same story. frankly, I don't buy it.
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JohnnyRingo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. In fairness, Woodruff announced about a half hour ago that
the troops in question were indeed U.S forces.

I'm guessing that's way ahead of how Fox™ handles the story. (If at all)
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b... Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. send CNN comment
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
34. The U.S. news sites are definitely soft-pedalling it
burying this story along with a plethora of other news on Iraq (see CNN.com and CBSNEWS.com), yet the bbc.co.uk gives the story its due, and you get a truer impression of the Italian reaction to this incredible event.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #34
135. I do enjoy the international news
for "fair and balanced" :) Fox,CNN and MSNBC (with the exception of KO's Countdown)seem to be run by Amerikan Baghdad Bobs.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
51. CNN International properly identifies the shooters as US forces
as does the BBC and everyone else except for the US press.

Bush has managed to piss off a Fascist like PM Berlusconi, who is now demanded accountability from US officials.

What was CNN and MSNBC talking about late this afternoon after the news broke? Martha and Jacko!
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. Wonder what the "coalition forces" don't want her to tell the world? n/t
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
47. Stunsters link tells the story of why they want to shut her up.
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burrowowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
97. You seem to have caught
the scent.
I mean one would think that there would be some co-ordination with our 'coalition', Berlusconi-Bu$h ... of course maybe Berlu wanted her out of the way, not a reporter under his media control.
This will probably piss off many Italians even more.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #97
115. I am betting on a HUGE protest this weekend in Rome....
B and B are both mobsters...


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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #115
137. I am counting on the demonstrations in Italy to force Berlusconi
to pull all Italian troops out of Iraq. Why should Italian troops be put in harm's way to protect the killers of Italians?
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #137
148. exactly...I certainly hope so.
remember the Canadian allies we shot down in Afghanistan with hardly an "i'm sorry" from the idiot?
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bunny planet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
61. that's what I was thinking.
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chomskysright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
95. you're fucking on to something here....
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. They knew who they were shooting at, orders from above.
Silence that woman, she knows too much.
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Turley Donating Member (585 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Like what?
what does she know? First I've heard that this woman was privy to anything particular. Sure you're not just making crap up?

BTW, I'm guessing there was a communication fuck-up. The Italians thought they had green light to blow through a roadblock and nobody told the Joes who were manning it. That's the way shit like this usually happens.

Anyway, when you've got something more concrete on your conspiracy theory, let me know.
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
35. Communication f-up
That is what is so unbelievable. What's with our command set-up? How difficult to notify those guards that this fast car with a freed hostage was whipping through there. Looks like it wasn't the guards that failed.
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #35
81. Perhaps, perfectly communicated,...maybe they did exactly as ordered. n/t
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Stunster Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. I cannot believe this was an accident
A CNN executive recently suggested that US military personnel in Iraq were gung-ho for shooting at journalists.

Right wing fanatics ensured his dismissal.

Giuliana Sgrena worked for a leftist publication, if I'm not mistaken.

The Italian government could not have failed to make US authorities aware of what was happening, given that they had one of their own intelligence operatives in the car (who apparently sacrificed his own life to save Ms. Sgrena's.)

I suspect this was an opportunistic attempt to silence a voice that had been critical of the US war/occupation.

I pray for Ms. Sgrena's recovery, so that we can hear everything she has to say.

FUCKING RUMSFELD SHOULD FUCKING RESIGN!
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fryguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. because it wasn't
the only question is how often before this incident have soliders shot at whatever car they see and then claim to have killed insurgents and no one reported otherwise becuase those attacked weren't western reporters but rather civilian Iraqis....
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pokercat999 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #9
130. You miss the true facts
If our beloved Merican Heroes shot it then obviously it was an insurgent! Jeezy pete don't you know anything, they are only there to serve and protect.....sarcasm off

They are scared, lots of them just average joes, overweight, over-aged, tired, national guard. They only want to get home to their families in AR or TX, NY, NH or elsewhere. It would be impossible not to develop a "them or me" attitude and shoot first ask questions later. My guess is that huge numbers of innocent civilians are killed and simply claimed to be insurgents. I wouldn't be surprised if all civilian casualties (at least those killed by small arms fire) are claimed to be insurgents. I'm also guessing that wounded civilians never make it off the "battlefield" alive. A dead civilian is always a insurgent, a wounded civilian just might be aaaaaaaaaa a civilian. I'd like to think I could never do anything like this but never having been in this situation I can't say how I would react or how far I would go to make it home again.

I do know who is responsible.....the Americans that voted for the war criminal Bush and the war criminal members of congress that went along with him. Send them ALL to the Hague!
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b... Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. i can hear the apologists already working on talking points...
such as...
*car was driving too fast towards checkpoint
*soldiers valiantly tried to slow it down, but when it didn't, and thinking they were threatened, courageously shot the car up
*soldiers just doing their job
*mistakes happen...this is war people!
*look at all the journalists that HAVEN'T been killed, don't they count?
*sure bad things happen, but we painted a school yesterday, where's your headline for that?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
54. Giuliana Sgrena is a Communist, working for a Communist newspaper
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 05:53 PM by IndianaGreen
The party's newspaper, Il Manifesto, has been relentless in its criticism and coverage of the misdeeds of Bush and his pal, Sergio Berlusconi (the Italian version of Rupert Murdoch).
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Stunster Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. Don't they call themselves something different now?
Like Party of the Democratic Left?
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #57
90. Il Manisfesto is run by the Communist Refoundation Party
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 07:49 PM by IndianaGreen
I believe the Party of the Democratic Left is the Stalinist wing of the old Italian Communist Party and they are part of a coalition that includes some Greens and Christian Democrats. I am not that familiar with leftwing politics in Italy, which have always been tumultuous. Berlusconi has been the great unifier of the Italian Left!

Here is the Communist Refoundation Party's website:

http://www.rifondazione.it/hp/index.html

They had this posted in English on their website:

Giuliana has visited Iraq many times, documenting with great honesty the dire sufferings of the population, caused first by the embargo, and later by war and occupation. Over the years, her work has provided a valuable channel to give a voice to the Iraqi people, to tell the stories that others would not write about. Her newspaper, Il Manifesto, has always been actively engaged against the war and occupation.

We do not know who has abducted them, or why. We firmly believe, however, that this act will not help Iraq and the Iraqi people to regain the sovereignty to which they are entitled, will not shorten the occupation, will not improve the life of the people.

We do know that voices of freedom, such as that of Giuliana and Florence, are direly needed.

As movements and associations active all over the world in the struggle against the war and to put an end to the occupation, we demand their immediate release.

http://esteri.rifondazione.co.uk/Campagne/ap0021.htm
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
118. Think She'll Talk?
Or live to tell the tale?
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Stunster Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #118
149. I think so
This is becoming a huge story in Europe, by all accounts.
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Dinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #149
150. Good, It IS A Huge Story.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. We are most laughed at and hated nation on this earth.
Impeach junior
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Nordic65 Donating Member (276 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
40. Sorry, but we are not laughing
Watching a dear old friend self-destruct is neither pretty nor funny

Houston, YOU have a serious problem...
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #40
53. That's a copy
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 06:46 PM by 0007
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hermetic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
15. U.S. Forces Kill Italian Agent after Reporter Freed
U.S. forces fired at a car carrying Italian reporter Giuliana Sgrena shortly after her liberation, killing an Italian secret service agent and lightly wounding the journalist, her newspaper said on Friday.

Gabriele Polo, the editor of Il Manifesto newspaper, said Sgrena's car was fired on as it made its way to Baghdad airport.

"This news which should have be a moment of celebration, has been ruined by this fire fight," Polo told Sky Italia television.

"An Italian agent has been killed by an American bullet. A tragic demonstration which we never wanted that everything that's happening in Iraq is completely senseless and mad," he added, struggling to fight back his tears.

The Italian President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi sent his condolences to the family of the dead agent, who was named by Il Manifesto's Polo as Nicola Calipari.

Sgrena was seized in the Iraqi capital on Feb. 4 as she conducted interviews on the street near Baghdad University.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/030405X.shtml
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imenja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. was the car marked?
This article doesn't say. Does anyone know more about the case? Usually reporters mark their cars with big red "TV" labels. I'm not sure how the print media deals with this. That would seem to be a pertinent bit of information to help determine if the bombing was deliberate or accidental.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
66. I don't think journalists drive around that way in Iraq.
Unless they are on "special assignment" in the Green Zone.

Especially a journalist that had just been released from being kidnapped - she might have felt a bit reticent about advertising her car to Iraqis (some of whom might have wanted to ransom her again) or Americans (who have something of a reputation for shooting at journalists).
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #16
110. I heard the coverage completely differently. The news show said
the car was speeding on the road to the airport and didn't make any attempt to slow down at the checkpoint. The soldiers were waving for it to slow down plus there were lights flashing. So shots were fired. The soldiers probably thought it might have been a suicide car coming at them. Don't ask what news show; I was switching stations, could have been ABC, NBC, etc.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #110
134. The US military has learned a few lessons from the IDF
The US military has learned a few lessons from the IDF: never admit wrongdoing. Always blame the victim!

The media is merely parroting the lie.

Let's see how our troops will like it when Italy withdraws her troops from Iraq as a result of this fiasco. If they think they are tired now...
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sasquatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. *Sarcasm on* BRILLIANT!!
*Sarcasm off*
:eyes:
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Guckert Donating Member (946 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Let Freedom "reign"...DUH
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Call me Deacon Blues Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. But . . .
U.S. forces aren't targeting journalists, right?
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dmkinsey Donating Member (789 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Au contraire
It was COALITION forces who committed this most unfortunate error, according to the highly trustworthy "spokesperson"

Seriously, what a stupid bungling performance.
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GreatScott Donating Member (134 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. early reports indicate that the driver was in a hurry to take her out
of the country and ran a roablock. Not sure who to blame, but a clear indication that things are entirely out of whack there.
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LdyGuique Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
22. Such a sad outcome to a story that should have been a celebration
Since the car appeared to be part of a convoy, and was speeding through Baghdad, I assume the shooting was a checkpoint "failure to stop" incident. I'm quite sure it was unmarked as Press as she'd just been recovered and they were on their way to the airport to get "the hell outta dodge." Additionally, I'm also sure that some US official had been notified but the notification failed to reach the troops on the ground. Another bungle that will further alienate EU opposition and certainly doesn't make us look good.

But, I would say that it's common knowledge that all vehicles must stop at the checkpoints and failure to do so will bring fire. Too many suicide bombing vehicles had try to run the roadblocks in order to blow them up.

The DoD hasn't released anything, yet (I get their email releases).
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b... Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. do you think italian agents...
...would just run a roadblock?

think the cia would do that, knowing what we know thousands of miles away, that failure to stop at a roadblock means lots of bullets are headed in your direction?
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #26
74. No. I do NOT believe Italian Secret Service would run a roadblock.
The circumstances are suspicious,...to say the least!!!!
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Another link: Italy demands shooting answers (Italy Pissed!)
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 05:21 PM by leftchick
My gut tells me this was no "accident"...


http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,12448218%5E1702,00.html

<snip>

He said the incident occurred at Camp Victory, the US military headquarters adjacent to Baghdad International Airport.

"She's been freed. She's with US forces."

Italy's Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said his government had summoned Washington's ambassador to Rome to explain the wounding of Ms Sgrena and the killing of a member of her Italian escort.

There were "disquieting questions" that needed to be answered about the incident, said Mr Berlusconi, a staunch ally of US President George W. Bush.


... So she is now with US forces? Gee I wonder if she feels any safer than she did yesterday? :eyes:
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booksenkatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. She'd better work on her best Bush's Karla Faye Tucker impersonation
While she's in the care of US forces, I hope she knows how to say in English, "Please don't kill me."
:(

This story scared the living shit out of me to read it. At first, I thought they'd killed the hostage. But even as the story stands... OMFG.

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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. Italy is sending a military jet to bring her home...
sure hope some of those "suspected insurgents" don't shoot it down, too!
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #32
109. Indeed
CNN now reports that the agent who was killed died while shielding the newly freed reporter's body.

The whole stinking thing seems rotten, & we haven't heard everything, yet.
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KayLaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. Evil
I guess now I've heard everything.
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pinerow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
28.  US troops fire at freed hostage
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benburch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. We fire at totally innocent people every day.
But they aren't Italian secret agents and rescued captives, so we never hear about it.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
52. Brown people don't count!
and neither did Asian people in another war so long ago, in a galaxy far, far, away!
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
30. Europe is Pissed, according to family members there
This is big news across Europe and they are really upset about it.
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all.of.me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #30
98. i have friends in italy
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 08:37 PM by genevat
they hate us over there. this won't help. i am totally embarrassed.
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
31. Shockingly incompetent
What is with so many innocent people being killed at checkpoints?American troops do not have a good reputation even with the Iraqis who tolerate their presence. They are seen as scared and nervous and mistake-prone. Any wonder why?

Although I don't think that THIS time a journalist was being targetted (only because she's Italian and I can't see why a reporter for Italian media would be targetted, but maybe I'm missing some information), this incident surely gives strength to the suspicion that the U.S. military is indeed out to get journalists.
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Boomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. My co-worker is a Marine
And his take, based on personal experience, is that young soldiers in a war-zone with an ill-defined enemy are trigger-happy because they are scared shitless. Even in the "best" of wars, friendly fire is common -- but under the circumstance of Iraq, frayed nerves lead to indiscriminate reactions.

We only hear about them when someone with a high profile is killed or wounded. And journalists are probably more likely to notice when one of their own is killed, or when such a high profile hostage is wounded. But they are probably no more prone to being victims than all the hapless Iraqis who have been offed.
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b... Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. but but but...
...free republic thinks that is crazytalk! imagine soldiers killing the press for sport?!?! i mean you'd have to find dozens of reporters killed to justify that!
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #36
93. The freeps are likely writing about how that "commie" had it coming.
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 08:10 PM by oasis
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #31
88. When cops want to stop cars at a checkpoint, do they open fire?
Surely there are more efficient and less dangerous ways to stop a car.
What about spike belts? What about double-checkpoint systems? How about good old-fashioned gates????
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #31
120. Addendum to my own post
Forgot---she writes for a leftist newspaper. THAT's why she'd be targetted. Still, it's hard to believe to believe the U.S. military would be so obvious, but the resulting incredulity is what they count on, I guess.:eyes:
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Stunster Donating Member (984 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
37. Here's why!
I've just taken these story lines filed for Il Manifesto (Italian leftwing newspaper--online English edition) by Giuliana Sgrena:


Two thousand victims in Fallujah
Giuliana Sgrena, Iraq
il manifesto 26 November 2004

Napalm Raid on Falluja?
GIULIANA SGRENA
il manifesto 23 November 2004

The death throes of Fallujah
Giuliana Sgrena
ilmanifesto 13 November 2004

“Stop the massacre”
GIULIANA SGRENA
il manifesto 12 November 2004

Bombs and tanks, hell breaks in Falluja
GIULIANA SGRENA
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Exactly! And a few weeks ago, a video was released of her...
pleading for all foreign troops to leave Iraq! She said something like ending the occupation was the only remedy to the kidnappings.

This murder will put the Italian Prime Minister in a great position...he extended the stay of Italian troops almost the same day that the video of her begging for her life came out! He's got a country full of angry people, now. Wonder if he'll listen this time!
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #37
43. Remember: The US does not target journalists for death
You can get fired for making that claim.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #43
63. Well, this incident lends credence to his story
There is little likelihood this was an accident. The American occupiers knew exactly where the journalist was at all times, and in case they forgot, Al-Jezeera reported that she was being freed prior to her release, according to the BBC article.

Can our government be this grossly incompetent??!!??

"Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi summoned the US ambassador demanding an explanation for what he called "such a serious incident."

Soon the world is going to stage a coup here. The sooner the better.
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 10:32 PM
Response to Reply #63
111. That was my first thought... re journalists as targets
And so far none of the information that they are releasing is making me feel any different.
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ashmanonar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #63
112. i don't doubt there's something fishy in there...
but remember: "Can our government be this grossly incompetent??!!??"

yes. yes they can.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #43
96. No, the US targets the vehicles and the buildings in which
journalists are located.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. well that certainly explain the actions of the US Thugs...
please get her home safe!
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gizmo1979 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
38. OOPs
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
42. well....
We're just growing more beloved in the world every damned day, aren't we?

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
44. It's a war zone.
Of course this is sad and unfortunate, but there are thousands of these stories that are unreported. This stuff is happening all the time.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #44
67. The fact is, a CNN executive said US forces were targeting journalists
and was then fired for it.

Doesn't that seem more than the odd coincidence?

This woman has been in the news daily since she was kidnapped. I cannot accept that the US didn't know where she was released. (It was on Al Jazeera before the actual handover.) It is "our" show in Iraq, after all.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #67
132. I can accept that the US didn't know it.
If they knew what was going on in Iraq, there wouldn't be an insurgency.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
71. You got that right...thousands of these stories are unreported...
the woman was shown on a video of her release, thanking her captors for the treatment she received while she was being held. A few hours later, the car of her rescuers is attacked by American soldiers!
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
48. As shown on "Frontline" last week, "check points" are
deadly places for any motorist. In fact being anywhere within shooting distance of the military is deadly.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #48
104. You nailed it
The Frontline piece was supposed to be inspiring in a "fact oriented" way, but it is clear that the American forces don't have a clue what is going on outside their little bubble. The unintended message (IMHO) of the Frontline documentary is that our troops are in way over their heads.

There was a pray and spray that resulted in the death of an Iraqi boy and another that no one would fess up to caught right on film. Then afterwards the captain annouces to his men in an apparently unrelated piece that "intel informed us that the family of dead Iraqi youth has targeted me as the killer of their son and posted a reward for my death." Another "well that's it guys, nothing new, people are trying to kill us." I particularly savored the scene where the posturing American colonel tries to intimidate the local tribal chief "who has been lying to him for nine months about the location of the terrorists" attacking his men. That was particularly ineffectual and was representative of the "foreign treachery" which is anathema to the colonial masters.

The idea that American ground troops knew who this journalist was or where she was, is extremely improbable. It is very difficult to have the big picture or to know real time details in a foreign war zone where you don't really understand anything that is going on around you while you are being targeted by a hostile population. The result is a very natural paranoia of men with guns.

It is a cruel place to be.
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K8-EEE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
49. Same Thing Happened to Jessica Lynch....
They (hospital staff) were trying to take her back and they were getting shot at.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
50. What's worse than being captured by insurgents?
Being "rescued" by Americans!
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
55. So sad and senseless! It is a miracle that the journalist wasn't
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 05:54 PM by MasonJar
killed, but how unecessary that anyone had to die. I heard of her release on NPR and then got out to do some errands. The next broadcast that I heard told of the death of the Italian agent. How many people would still be alive if we had not attacked this basically defenseless country?
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
58. Pissing off one of our few remaining allies
Maybe this will finally topple Berlusconi. One can wish.
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countryjake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #58
65. Well, he found more than half a million of his citizens in the streets...
outside his door, on the day after he decided to extend the stay of the Italian troops in Iraq. Methinks that number may be increased a hundredfold, after the events of today! Wonder if the media will let us catch any glimpse of some real "people power" this week in Italy!?
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murray hill farm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
59. Scary when...
The twilight zone we have slipped into...starts to look normal!
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
60. msnbc was pushing so hard to spin this
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 06:13 PM by Rose Siding
McCafferty and Natalie (?) saying over and over how they must not have ID'd themselves properly- stressing the inevitability of "this sort of thing". SOMEONE screwed up for sure, but there is NO evidence that it wasn't the shooters, or the US in some way. Why isn't the media interested in reporting it that way?
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
62. ...and can you believe how CNN sugar coats this tragedy to the mindless?
An Italian journalist freed Friday after a month in captivity was wounded by coalition forces as she was being taken to the airport in Baghdad, a military official said. Coalition forces mistakenly shot at the car carrying Giuliana Sgrena,

http://www.cnn.com/

They should be ashamed of themselves
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #62
105. The local NBC affiliate, NBC4 out of D.C. ....
... also said the journalist and the agents were shot by COALITION FORCES , not American troops!! I literally screamed at the TV when I heard that; it was all I could do not to throw a brick through the damned tube. And here I thought the anchor, Jim Vance, knew better than to parrot that spew!! Mr. Vance, hang your head in SHAME!
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against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
64. Probably happens a hundred times a day. But innocent Iraqis don't
count.
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
68. Instead of a drive-by shooting it was a shoot-by driving.
It was the car driver's fault for driving into the bullets. It happens all the time - la de da, no need to worry, time to move on, it can't be helped, guards are young and scared, sorry about your luck.
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Anakin Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
69. That Italian Kinda Looked Like an Arab
and so was shot. Nothing incredible about it. It's stereotyping.

Looks like some of the boys need better training on how to separate friends from foes.
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cubschicago Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 04:32 AM
Response to Reply #69
127. Do you have a pic of Nicola or something?
I did a google search and couldn't find one, so I don't know how credible that theory is. He only got shot because he was protecting the journalist, the shots weren't aimed toward him. I just thought I would point that out.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #127
142. So if he was just protecting her
the bullets were meant for her. The shots weren't aimed towars him so were they aimed towards her? Were the bullets meant for her?
I thought it was just an accident caused by not stopping at a check point.
Very strange indeed.
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MSgt213 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
72. Any one think an intelligent agent is so unaware that he wouldn't
understand that if he approached a check point manned by car bomb shy troops at a high rate of speed the out come wouldn't be good? Are we to believe this is a guy savy enough to get a hostage away from people who would surly kill her only to have himself and her almost killed by people who should have been helping him?

My point is there is more to this story then is being told. Even I knew sitting here in Houston on my fat ass, that Ms. Sgrena was a journalist, had been kidnapped at gun point, and her driver at the time of kidknapping was arrested and detained by american forces when he tried to report the incident, that Italy was working toward her released and that someone from Italy was in the country attempting to secure her release. I also know that the road to the Baghdad airport is a very dangerous one where you travel at a high rate of speed never stopping because stopping means certain death.

I highly doubt that the Italian government is so dense they wouldn't have told the US that they were operating behind enemy lines when they might have needed US help. While I certain they didn't share the specifics of what was going on with the US military because they wouldn't want them to fuck it up. But not give them general details to be on the look out for a car traveling at a high rate of speed going to the airport and don't fucking shoot?
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. I was thinking that too. The story they give doesn't pass muster.
She worked for Il Manefesto, a left leaning paper, doing stories about the women and children in occupied Iraq. If she got out from counter insurgents, the ones we put in, black ops, our guys would do this shit.

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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #72
79. I am in total agreement. Hell, anyone who's watched any coverage of this
quagmire would know better than that.

There are plenty of reasons to be suspicious: "communist" reporter, secret service escort, shooting near airport, previous statements re troops targeting journalists, the DoD lie machine.
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #72
144. Intelligence agent may have gotten the world that they were targets
Edited on Sat Mar-05-05 12:49 PM by candy331
and was expecting the hit but didn't know exactly when and where and which check point it would happen. SURELY THE MAKE AND COLOR OF THE CAR WAS PASSED ALONG OR PERHAPS NOT PASSED ALONG BECAUSE OF JUST THIS HAPPENING.
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mourningdove92 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
73. Bullshit, Bullshit, Bullshit!
How many times are we supposed to buy in to tha same old story?


Gee, it wasn't our fault that we shot up that car full of kids, or pregnant women, journalists, or other innocent people.....honestly, we waved our hands, jumped up and down, waved white flags, and fired warning shots but the damn car just kept coming...oh yeah, and it was driving REAL fast too.

bullshit.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
75. Reuters: "Italy Seeks U.S. Answers", "Berlusconi demanded explanations"
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 07:00 PM by Rose Siding
snip>
"We were turned to stone when the officials told us about it on the telephone," Berlusconi told a news conference. "I immediately summoned the U.S. ambassador ... who will have to clarify the behavior of the U.S. military for such a serious incident, which someone will have to take responsibility for."

Sgrena, a reporter for the Rome-based Communist daily Il Manifesto, was seized in the Iraqi capital on Feb. 4. She was last seen in a video released on Feb 16. pleading for her life and urging U.S.-led forces to quit Iraq.

She was handed over to three Italian agents on Friday who drove her toward the airport, but the car came under U.S. fire at a checkpoint, Berlusconi said.

"The agent, Nicola Calipari covered Sgrena with his body, he was hit by a bullet which unfortunately was fatal," he said. All three other passengers were wounded. Sgrena was treated for a shrapnel wound in her shoulder at a U.S. military hospital.

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=7814050
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #75
82. WH Says Regrets Death in Iraq Shooting
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=7814240

SOUTH BEND, Ind. (Reuters) - The White House said on Friday it regretted the killing of an Italian security agent and the wounding of freed Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena when U.S. forces fired on their car at a checkpoint in Iraq.
"We wish her a speedy recovery," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said of Sgrena. "We regret the loss of life."

Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi, a close ally of President Bush, has demanded explanations from Washington.
...
McClellan, who was traveling with Bush in Indiana at a Social Security event, said U.S. officials would closely coordinate with Italian officials in Iraq in investigating the shooting.

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Mayberry Machiavelli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
76. Woohoo "Mission Accomplished".
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
78. black op counter insurgency.......
Giuliana Sgrena, an unembedded Italian journalist, was not kidnapped by the Iraqi resistance. If you read her stories, you will immediately realize the Iraqi resistance had absolutely no reason to abduct her. Giuliana Sgrena wrote about the suffering of the Iraqi people under occupation. “Suffering daily abuses and violence from occupation forces or their proxies, the Iraqis themselves are subjected to routine hostage-taking by the occupiers,” writes Stefano Chiarini, Il Manifesto correspondent in Baghdad.

“This type of kidnapping distorts and defames the resistance of the Iraqi people against the American occupation,” said Sheik Abdel Salam al Qubaisi of the Association of Islamic Scholars, a Sunni organization. For his effort on Sgrena’s behalf, Sheik Ali al Jabouri, a member of the Association of Islamic Scholars, was arrested by Allawi’s goons.

Sgrena worked for Il Manifesto, an Italian leftist newspaper, and she was “among the founders of the peace movement,” according to her biography on the Il Manifesto web site. “Giuliana was in Iraq to witness the plight of innocent Iraqi people and show to the world that the invasion of Iraq by US forces has brought nothing positive but more pain, sufferings and tragedies for ill-fated civilians. As a freedom-loving Italian journalist she wanted to uncover those aspects of the life of Iraqi children, women and men that are usually ignored by other known Western media,” writes Rawa (Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan) for Bellaciao.

In other words, she was an enemy of the United States, not the Iraqi resistance, in the same way Margaret Hassan was an enemy of the United States, or rather the policies of the United States.

Both Hassan and Sgrena were kidnapped by “counterinsurgency” black op groups—now admitted to be working in both Iraq and Iran by the Pentagon—posing as resistance fighters. I have no evidence of this but it is the only explanation that makes sense. I have written about this elsewhere, so will not repeat the details. See my Hersh Adds Credibility to Speculation Margaret Hassan was the Victim of a Counterinsurgency Operation, posted on January 18. I also wrote about it here. For speculating on such, I have been termed a conspiracy nut donning a tinfoil hat.

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=iraq_war&Number=293375239
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nguoihue Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #78
91. black ops
Caligirl's explanation rings with the truth.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #91
119. welcome to the DU, just saw your new here.
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Frederik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #78
99. The sheikh was arreted
for his efforts on her behalf? That's pretty damn interesting, if it's true.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #78
146. I have been thinking along these same lines.
Why free her at all, then, and not kill her? Well, maybe the outcry in Italy scared them into thinking they couldn't afford to kill her, but different people in military command had other ideas and didn't want her free to report on what she saw in Fallujah.
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gristy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
80. U.S. Forces Accidentally Shoot Freed Hostage's Car
That was the headline on my compuserve home page. See, the troops didn't fire on the journalist. They were only out to kill the car. And accidentally at that! Man, someone's auto insurance company is going to be pissed... :eyes:
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
83. Ansa and Apcom cited here at SFchron story
(03-04) 11:51 PST ROME, Italy (AP) --


A freed Italian hostage was injured and an Italian secret service agent killed Friday after a U.S. armored vehicle fired on a car in which they were riding in Iraq, two Italian news agencies reported.


The Apcom and ANSA news agencies said that Giuliana Sgrena, a reporter for the communist daily Il Manifesto, was in a hospital in Iraq with a shoulder injury. The shooting occurred at a roadblock while the car was heading to the airport, the reports said.


The editor of Il Manifesto, Gabriele Polo, said the secret service agent was killed when he threw himself over the freed hostage to protect her from fire, according to Apcom. He also said Sgrena was in the hospital but was not seriously injured.


The U.S. military press desk in Baghdad had no immediate comment on reports of the shooting and said it was looking into the matter.


Italy's Foreign Ministry said it had no immediate comment. Earlier, the Italian government had confirmed Sgrena's release and said a plane was waiting to bring her back to Rome.


Sgrena, 56, was abducted Feb. 4 by gunmen who blocked her car outside Baghdad University. Last month, she was shown in a video pleading for her life and demanding that all foreign troops — including Italian forces — leave Iraq.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/03/04/international/i114436S82.DTL
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
84. Il Manifesto article translated
Giuliana Sgrena is free
the Americans talk nonsense
Assassinated its liberatore
Nicholas Calipari called itself
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=http://www.ilmanifesto.it/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dil%2Bmanifesto%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D


Giuliana Sgrena is free. Assassinated its liberatore
Giuliana has been freed and is well. But in the travel in automobile that carried it towards the airport of Baghdad and of we its car has been hit from the fire of the Americans. E' be wound, in not serious way, with to others two persons. Nicholas Calipari of the Sismi is remained killed. The Department of USA State has expressed just "the sorrow" for the happened incident to Baghdad.

Nicholas Calipari, the civil employee of the Sismi that it has made from mediator for the liberation of Giuliana Sgrena has been killed from the blows exploded from armored of the American troops against the automobile of the servants Italian secrets that Giuliana transported towards the airport of Baghdad. Nicholas Calipari it has saved two times: the last one, repairing it with just the body during the shooting. Been born to Reggio Calabria, he had 50 years, he was married and father of two sons, one girl of 19 years and a boy of 13. In police they give beyond vent' years, Nicholas Calipari had rendered also the liberation of Simona Pari and Simona possible Turret.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
86. For any other president, this would be a serious diplomatic crisis
I doubt that our current leader will let this delay his "Save Social Security" propaganda mission by so much as a day.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
87. email addy for the Il Maifesto if you feel the urge to write.
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 07:19 PM by caligirl
redazione@ilmanifesto.it
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Kat45 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
92. Well, there's one less country that doesn't hate us.
I couldn't believe it when I heard this story. Un-fucking-believable! Is there nothing that our country can't screw up these days, under the neocons' control?
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OTownGuy Donating Member (70 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #92
94. They WANTED to kill her??
Anyone think they HAD/WANTED to kill her so she would not expose the Bush agenda after she was freed?????? At any rate, out troops have turned into nothing BUT murderers and war criminals. I do NOT support them ANYMORE AT AAAAAL.
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #94
100. she was reporting on our Nanking...
didn't rummy BAN all unescorted reporters? he must be pissed!

peace
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
101. Hope the lady live to tell the story
truthfully. As it is now, we will not get the true story ,imo. No way. We will be fed lies and spin.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
103. Different theory to consider here....................
The Italian prime minister owns nearly all the press in Italy(90%?). He supports Bush aganist the wishes of the Italian people. Sgrena worked for a laeftist paper, anti Iraq war. Berlosconi could have been behind it?
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #103
106. The Italians have been a HUGE majority OPPOSED to bush's invasion &
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 09:26 PM by LynnTheDem
occupation of Iraq; we're talking in the 90% range opposed. I really don't think Berlosconi is stupid enough to ever dare risk such a thing; he'll have been hoping & praying for 2 years that no Italian troops or civs got so much as a skinned knee in Iraq.
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ashmanonar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #106
116. he'd end up like mussolini if they got pissed off...
i wouldn't doubt it.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #116
117. 90% have been pissed off for the past 2 years...
Edited on Fri Mar-04-05 11:15 PM by LynnTheDem
but it looks like they're reaching the end of their patience with his bush-bottery. I too wouldn't doubt they'd be willing to mussolini him if he goes very much further.
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ashmanonar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #117
121. well, yea.
that's what i mean. obviously if he's got 90% disapproval of the war, he's got problems.
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #121
123. Cracks me up when bush praises Berlusconi for "spreading DEMOCRACY"
when in fact Berlusconi ignored the will of 90% of his own citizens.

Same with Spain, and the UK, and Poland...and every nation in bush's "coalition", NONE of whom had a citizen majority that supported the invasion & occupation of Iraq, and ALL of whom IGNORED the will of the majority of their own people.

But hell, bush also ignored the majority of AMERICANS, who did NOT support his invasion of Iraq until AFTER "shock and awwww" was raining down on innocent Iraqi men, women & babies.
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ashmanonar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 12:44 AM
Response to Reply #123
124. indeed.
the whole world's breaking out in democracy, huh? /sarcasm
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #124
125. New meaning of the word; democracy-spreading is what you do in OTHER
people's countries, not what you do at home.
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ausiedownunderground Donating Member (429 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
107. Car hit by estimated 400 rounds! US forces kill wrong guy!!
This could be a monumental "****-up" by itchy trigger happy GI's. Not only did they fail to kill a journalist who has intimate details of what went on in Fallujah and in particular the use by US forces of Chemical weapons and radiological weapons, but they killed an italian military intel operative that was not only Italy's major contact with the Iraqi Guerrillas, but whose girlfriend works in Berlusconi's office and is a close personal friend of Berlusconi!!!
This murder is personnel for Berlusconi!!! He'll want somebodys head in the US Army on a plate! I'll bet you Centcom is in a "panic" as we speak.
Italy is basically the only reliable non "anglo-saxon" ally that the US Neo-Fascists have. So what do they do!!! Murder their allies prime minister's close personel friends lover! Way to go Neo-fascists!!!
Even mainstream media here in Oz heavily criticising the US army over this stuff up!
Berlusconi's already in electoral trouble - he certainly didn't need this from his supposed friends in the White House.
Check how fast Italy has sent a plane to get the journalist out! She had better not die in US medical hands - or the proverbial rear end stuff will hit the mechanical contraption.
Slowly but surely the Neo-crazies are losing any friends they might have thought they had. Eventually it will be the "Rest of the World" lined up against the US/Israeli axis!! I'd rather be on our team!
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Laurab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #107
108. I'd rather be on you team too!
I swear this is not my country.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
113. The guy they killed was the negotiator
ROME -- Nicola Calipari was a veteran Italian secret service agent and practiced negotiator who had helped return two hostages kidnapped in Iraq home to their loved ones in Italy.

At least once before, Calipari reportedly came close to negotiating the release of yet another Italian hostage -- the journalist Giuliana Sgrena -- but left Baghdad empty-handed, according to the news agency ANSA.
...
News of Calipari's death brought grief to other former hostages and their relatives.

"Nicola Calipari was a beautiful person, a simple person. He was the person who freed me," Simona Torretta told ANSA on Friday as she left Calipari's home, where she had gone to pay her respects and meet with his family.
...
Calipari, 50, was married and had a 19-year-old daughter and a 13-year-old son. He was a 20-year veteran of the police force, and before moving on to Italy's secret services he had headed the immigration office for Rome's police.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2005/03/04/agent_killed_in_iraq_negotiated_releases/
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
114. Shoot first, ask questions later.
Why does that sound familiar?
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
122. How far was the car from the check point when shot at?
And how visible to drivers was the check-point? What is a check-point in Iraq; a flashing light with bright-colored barricades and soldiers standing around waiting to be shot? Was it at night or in the day? I'm fascinated by the willingness of people to make up their minds about an incident before any percipient witnesses have spoken.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #122
129. Unfortunately, the people of Italy will make up their minds.
The secret service agent who died was already considered a hero in Italy (according to news on BBCAMERICA right now). He shielded the reporter with his own body, giving his life for her. Meanwhile, Bush is busily jetting around the USA to kill SS--far too busy to worry about how some Commie journalist got shot. She's made it back to Rome safely.

It's a major diplomatic crisis & Bush is too busy talking up his undefined SS "plan" to come up with any excuses.
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 01:48 AM
Response to Original message
126. Who else is reminded of what happened in El Salvador 25 years ago?
http://www.ishipress.com/nunskill.htm

The churchwomen -- Maura Clarke, Jean Donovan, Ita Ford and Dorothy Kazel -- were abducted, raped and shot to death on the night of Dec. 2, 1980. The next day, peasants discovered their bodies alongside an isolated road and buried their remains in a common grave. The van they had been driving when stopped at a military checkpoint turned up 20 miles away, burned and gutted.

The killings came as the United States was beginning a decade-long, $7 billion aid effort to prevent left-wing guerrillas from coming to power in El Salvador, and the case quickly became the focus of a bitter policy debate about Central America.

<snip>

With Congressional approval of aid to El Salvador hinging on the case, the Reagan administration also sought to discount the idea that the killings were the result of a policy of state-sponsored terrorism.

In testimony to Congress in 1981, for instance, Secretary of State Alexander Haig argued that the churchwomen might have been shot while trying to run a military roadblock. Even an official State Department post mortem on El Salvador policy that was published in July 1993 reiterated the prevailing wisdom that it was "more likely that the chaotic and permissive atmosphere at the time, not high-level military involvement, was behind the crime."
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strizi64 Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
131. Italian press shocked by shooting
<snip>
"Giuliana Sgrena is free - her liberator is murdered," reads the simple, uncompromising headline in Il Manifesto, the Rome daily for which Ms Sgrena works.

<snip>

In Turin's La Stampa, Lucia Annunziata also senses the episode may place considerable strain on the "carefully woven" relationship between Italy and the US.

"If Washington has any skilled diplomats between Rome and Iraq," she says, "it would be well advised to activate them at once."

<snip>

A first draft of Il Manifesto featured a cartoon of a man hugging a dove with an olive twig in its beak, accompanied by the caption "You've brought her back to us."

But the cartoon was redrawn for later editions, with the dove shown dragging itself along the floor in a pool of blood.

<snip>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4321147.stm

The whole story is like a bad joke on a bad day, just crazy and disgusting. Random shooting at cars, don't want to know how many already died in such actions before :grr:. I really hope that she recovers soon...
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #131
147. Yikes! Skilled diplomats?! Condi will threaten to bomb them for
being uppity.
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Bo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
133. Assassination attempt quite obviously.....
...no one can be that stupid to believe U.S. weren't warn of her realease.
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madison2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #133
139. incredible stupidity or incredible evil
unfortunately I can believe either one...
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all.of.me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
136. article from il manifesto (it's in english)
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #136
140. Thanks. I read the article about Caprioli, too
Their loss is heartbreaking. :-(
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all.of.me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #140
141. my friends in italy are livid.
i got an email overnight with the subject 'bastardi!'

they are pissed at us. they blame the americans, not berlusconi. they DO blame him for not taking the troops out, but they don't believe he was behind this, as someone suggested.

it is very sad. it will be interesting to see what happens now.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #141
143. They should be livid. Any rational person is livid
no matter where they live.

Intentional or incompetence -- there's no excuse for this.

The US is way over its head. The loss of confidence in the * regime should be complete.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-05-05 11:01 AM
Response to Original message
138. Can't trust US corporate media
Edited on Sat Mar-05-05 11:01 AM by SOS
to report this story. Thankfully Ms. Sgrena survived. Her future Il Manifesto article on the shooting will be the only one worth reading.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
151. Recent related threads in LBN ...
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